When you first get to Lothering, Morrigan suggests going to pop Loghain and THEN gathering the troops to fight the archdemon... so why can't we go with her idea? why must the cool spots in denerim be blocked off, why NOT just go in and axe that creep and move on?
I liked Morrigan's suggestion, why can't I do it?
Débuté par
pinzig
, nov. 26 2009 01:59
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#2
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 02:02
HoLyEmperor
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The necessities of later plot points dictate the restrictions on earlier plot points.
Yup.
Yup.
#3
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 02:03
Maria Caliban
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I thought BioWare made a mistake in that section. You have one companion suggest going to Redcliffe (which is a horrible place to go before you've leveled) and another suggest just going to Loghian (which you can't do at all.)
#4
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 02:22
Realmzmaster
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Actually going to Denerim to pop Loghian until you are high enough in level is suicide. Loghian is no pushover. He could probably take out your whole party by himself. Not counting his own private army of guards
#5
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 02:24
Serogon
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Maria Caliban wrote...
I thought BioWare made a mistake in that section. You have one companion suggest going to Redcliffe (which is a horrible place to go before you've leveled) and another suggest just going to Loghian (which you can't do at all.)
How is Redcliffe a horrible place to go until you've leveled? I went there first on my first playthrough and it went fine.
#6
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 02:45
archonambroseus
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Redcliffe is fine for a first stop, but a lot of people prefer to pick up companions first so they don't get auto-leveled as far.
Haven, however, is a terrible idea for a second stop, and is exactly what I did second on my first playthrough since it chains from Redcliffe. Being low level and not having any companions past who you get by Lothering made that way more difficult than the second time I did it after Shale, the Circle Tower, Orzammar, and Soldier's Peak, by which time it was a pushover.
Haven, however, is a terrible idea for a second stop, and is exactly what I did second on my first playthrough since it chains from Redcliffe. Being low level and not having any companions past who you get by Lothering made that way more difficult than the second time I did it after Shale, the Circle Tower, Orzammar, and Soldier's Peak, by which time it was a pushover.
#7
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 02:45
archonambroseus
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Stupid double post.
Modifié par archonambroseus, 26 novembre 2009 - 02:45 .
#8
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 03:44
SeanMurphy2
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He is the main villain. So they can't let you kill him right at the start of the game. They would have to force you to lose to him. Or you beat him and then he escapes. Instead he is a fairly distant character during the mid game. You deal with his schemes and henchmen.
I don't know if there is some way to have designed the game, so we have more direct contact with Loghain during the game without having to fight him.
As for Morrigan's suggestion. I think it is a thought that would occur to a lot of people. So the developers raise the question and tell you why it won't work.
I don't know if there is some way to have designed the game, so we have more direct contact with Loghain during the game without having to fight him.
As for Morrigan's suggestion. I think it is a thought that would occur to a lot of people. So the developers raise the question and tell you why it won't work.
#9
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 03:56
Nyaore
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Well gee, wouldn't that just disprove all the nasty things the man has said about you and your order? I mean, surely, killing a beloved war hero without any hard evidence to support your claims about his treachery would show everyone in Ferelden that the Grey Warden's were innocent of the crimes they stand accused of? It's not like they'd all band against you out of retaliation because you were too lazy to put in the hard work needed to bring the man down after all - and thus have done nothing to tarnish the glowing picture many of them have of Loghain.
That's not even touching on the fact that you are simply no match for his GUARD Ser Cauthrien at the beginning of the game, let alone Loghain himself. You'd be dead before you reached the first step leading up to the palace.
That's not even touching on the fact that you are simply no match for his GUARD Ser Cauthrien at the beginning of the game, let alone Loghain himself. You'd be dead before you reached the first step leading up to the palace.
#10
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 04:17
kormesios
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The only thing brutal about Redcliffe for me (and it was the first place I went) was the siege battle--which, judging by the number of threads, was brutal for a lot of people. The only place I think would be easier would be the Mage Tower. Haven't tried the others, so I don't know for sure how they scale, but I'd hate to meet a couple wild sylvans at a low level.
And in terms of the plot unfolding, I think Redcliffe makes more sense for any non-mage. It's a decent sugggestion. It gives you political details, then sends you immediately to the Mage Tower, which is a good challenge level and I nice way to get a lot of lore background.
The Denerim suggestion made sense to me only as saying something about Morrigan's character--I thought as practical advice it seemed inherently foolish to me, to the point I wasn't tempted by it. But I do tend to play cautious characters.
And in terms of the plot unfolding, I think Redcliffe makes more sense for any non-mage. It's a decent sugggestion. It gives you political details, then sends you immediately to the Mage Tower, which is a good challenge level and I nice way to get a lot of lore background.
The Denerim suggestion made sense to me only as saying something about Morrigan's character--I thought as practical advice it seemed inherently foolish to me, to the point I wasn't tempted by it. But I do tend to play cautious characters.
#11
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 04:29
SeanMurphy2
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Maria Caliban wrote...
I thought BioWare made a mistake in that section. You have one companion suggest going to Redcliffe (which is a horrible place to go before you've leveled) and another suggest just going to Loghian (which you can't do at all.)
I thought it was believable that Alistair would suggest Redcliffe if you asked him. Because he respects Eamon and Redcliffe would be the most familiar location to him.
Apart from not going to Orzammer first, I am not sure if Bioware devs had a suggested order. Most people suggest Mage tower first but even that has its drawbacks. You are locked in, fade is very different style of solo gameplay and the bosses can still be hard.
I don't think Bioware realised how hard a lot of people would find defending Redcliffe village. And underestimated the importance to their tactics of getting Wynne early as a healer. I don't know MMO tactics I never even used a healer.
Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:31 .
#12
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 04:51
cpip
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Nyaore wrote...
Well gee, wouldn't that just disprove all the nasty things the man has said about you and your order? I mean, surely, killing a beloved war hero without any hard evidence to support your claims about his treachery would show everyone in Ferelden that the Grey Warden's were innocent of the crimes they stand accused of? It's not like they'd all band against you out of retaliation because you were too lazy to put in the hard work needed to bring the man down after all - and thus have done nothing to tarnish the glowing picture many of them have of Loghain.
That's not even touching on the fact that you are simply no match for his GUARD Ser Cauthrien at the beginning of the game, let alone Loghain himself. You'd be dead before you reached the first step leading up to the palace.
While all this is true, I daresay it might've been nice to actually have the option to TRY, or a more solid in-game reason why you can't -- something as simple as arriving at the Royal Palace and hearing, "Loghain is with his Army, marching in the Bannorn," or something -- so that you can't do anything there just then, so that when later Eamon calls the Landsmeet, it puts Loghain somewhere you can find him more easily.
#13
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 04:55
Drunkencelt
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Archdemon is the main villian. You can't go to Denerim first cause you have to get your support first, and learn the extent of his treachery/storyline.
I think Morrigan just suggests it cause its the simplest path and gets her free of you the fastest.
I think Morrigan just suggests it cause its the simplest path and gets her free of you the fastest.
#14
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 06:48
Mikka-chan
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Redcliffe and the Circle tower are the lowest level areas on the map. And it wouldn't really make sense for either Alistair or Morrigan to suggest going to the Circle, so... Redcliffe, I guess. So much better then starting with Orz, certainly, or even the Dalish.
#15
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 07:16
gotthammer
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OP does have a point...
If anything, it would still, probably, be nice to even have that option + the consequences of such a 'brash' action.
I guess, if anything, I'd probably like to have seen an option where your character can 'steal' the throne by wiping out all possible claimants (i.e., by force), and using the threat of the Blight as unifying factor after such an act (i.e., convincing the remaining nobles that you won't help if you aren't made ruler...or something to that effect)
If anything, it would still, probably, be nice to even have that option + the consequences of such a 'brash' action.
I guess, if anything, I'd probably like to have seen an option where your character can 'steal' the throne by wiping out all possible claimants (i.e., by force), and using the threat of the Blight as unifying factor after such an act (i.e., convincing the remaining nobles that you won't help if you aren't made ruler...or something to that effect)
#16
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 07:28
Boeresmurf
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hehe imagine the fight against Ser Cauthrine as lvl 4 "hello i am a baby gay warden" .
wouls take a lots of F9 for ppl
wouls take a lots of F9 for ppl
#17
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 07:36
Faerell Gustani
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I still think you should have had an option to join Loghain.
I would write it like so:
You take up Morrigan's suggestion to go after Loghain directly (it's stupid from a game standpoint, but it makes sense tactically speaking...he thinks you're dead afterall).
When you catch up to him in Denerim or the Bannorn, you fight a few of his guard before he comes out personally and tells you that he's impressed that you survived.
If in Ostagar you told him that you thought Calian was an idiot, Loghain will bring that up and suggest that you serve him and thusly align the Wardens behind him. The civil war in the Bannorns is eating up manpower and time, so he asks you to go make good of your Grey Warden treaties to recruit more armies to Loghain's cause to end the civil war and the Blight.
From there on out, it's mostly the same game. The Redcliffe and Lansmeet will have to be adjusted further, but the Mages, Dwarves and Elves will be the exact same game. It's really not too much of a change.
I would write it like so:
You take up Morrigan's suggestion to go after Loghain directly (it's stupid from a game standpoint, but it makes sense tactically speaking...he thinks you're dead afterall).
When you catch up to him in Denerim or the Bannorn, you fight a few of his guard before he comes out personally and tells you that he's impressed that you survived.
If in Ostagar you told him that you thought Calian was an idiot, Loghain will bring that up and suggest that you serve him and thusly align the Wardens behind him. The civil war in the Bannorns is eating up manpower and time, so he asks you to go make good of your Grey Warden treaties to recruit more armies to Loghain's cause to end the civil war and the Blight.
From there on out, it's mostly the same game. The Redcliffe and Lansmeet will have to be adjusted further, but the Mages, Dwarves and Elves will be the exact same game. It's really not too much of a change.
#18
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 07:50
JamesX
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I remember talking to one of the NPC and he told you how stupid of an idea that is.
Maybe it was Alister. How he is surrounded by army and will have foreseen your assassination attempt long ago.
Pretty sure the game stays away from "Choose Option A" "Game fades to Black Screen with the option to reload previous save."
Maybe it was Alister. How he is surrounded by army and will have foreseen your assassination attempt long ago.
Pretty sure the game stays away from "Choose Option A" "Game fades to Black Screen with the option to reload previous save."
Modifié par JamesX, 26 novembre 2009 - 07:51 .
#19
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 07:54
Rugaru
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gotthammer wrote...
OP does have a point...
If anything, it would still, probably, be nice to even have that option + the consequences of such a 'brash' action.
I guess, if anything, I'd probably like to have seen an option where your character can 'steal' the throne by wiping out all possible claimants (i.e., by force), and using the threat of the Blight as unifying factor after such an act (i.e., convincing the remaining nobles that you won't help if you aren't made ruler...or something to that effect)
So basically replace Loghain with yourself?...
#20
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 07:55
Fishy
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After Lothering i normaly do The DLC (stone prisoner and warden Keep) .. Than i do redcliff .. than after that i normaly go to denerim pick the side quest and do some of them .. than after i normaly do the Mage Tower .. Than after that i normaly go to recliff and finish some side quest.. Than i go either to the elf Or orzamaar ..I don,t want to end with orzamaar so it's give me more time with Oghren...Since he won't talk to you until you finish the quest here.
#21
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 07:57
SeanMurphy2
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I think it could work.
Even at the end of Ostager, Loghain was an ambivalent character. He may have had perfectly good reasons for what he did. A Grey Warden's priority is to stop the Blight. That may mean uniting the Kingdom behind Loghain. Regardless of what he did in the past.
Though I don't know if it changes the flow of the story if you change a clear villain into a morally grey character.
Even at the end of Ostager, Loghain was an ambivalent character. He may have had perfectly good reasons for what he did. A Grey Warden's priority is to stop the Blight. That may mean uniting the Kingdom behind Loghain. Regardless of what he did in the past.
Though I don't know if it changes the flow of the story if you change a clear villain into a morally grey character.
#22
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 08:08
Rugaru
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SeanMurphy2 wrote...
I think it could work.
Even at the end of Ostager, Loghain was an ambivalent character. He may have had perfectly good reasons for what he did. A Grey Warden's priority is to stop the Blight. That may mean uniting the Kingdom behind Loghain. Regardless of what he did in the past.
Though I don't know if it changes the flow of the story if you change a clear villain into a morally grey character.
Except for the fact that Loghain hates you and wants you dead for being a grey warden and doesn't believe in the blight. Oh and that he tries to kill you....
Other than all that yes I think getting behind Loghain would work...
#23
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 08:29
SeanMurphy2
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Couldar wrote...
Except for the fact that Loghain hates you and wants you dead for being a grey warden and doesn't believe in the blight. Oh and that he tries to kill you....
Other than all that yes I think getting behind Loghain would work...
Loghain may eventually realise that he has misread the situation and thing are out of control. The Blight is visibly destroying large parts of the Kingdom. A Grey Warden may help unite the Kingdom behind him and use the treaties for a larger army. He may also be written differently in that scenario.
Currently he does a series of terrible things so becomes a clear cut villain. Rather than someone who abandons the King and then clumsily tries to deal with the mess he has created.
#24
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 08:37
Majspuffen
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he had a good reason for what he did? Who knows what would've happened, had he not fled the battle. The king might've died anyway... but how about the other actions? Poisoning Eamon, blame HIS actions on the wardens, slavery etc...? I can't beileve people actually want him in their party.
#25
Posté 26 novembre 2009 - 08:40
Maria Caliban
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Serogon wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
I thought BioWare made a mistake in that section. You have one companion suggest going to Redcliffe (which is a horrible place to go before you've leveled) and another suggest just going to Loghian (which you can't do at all.)
How is Redcliffe a horrible place to go until you've leveled? I went there first on my first playthrough and it went fine.
You're also playing the XBox 360 version that reduces the difficulty of combat and has fewer people on the screen at the same time. If you don't have an AOE damage spell (and you can't unless you play a mage) or a healing spell (and you can't unless you play a mage), then Redcliffe village is incredably difficult for a first stop.
As one of the devs said, "Your first mistake was listening to Alistiar."
