Questa discussione ha avuto 28 risposte

[AlphaJarmel]

 Vega states in one of your conversations with him that he was waiting with his squad to attack the Collectors until he got betrayed by a Cerberus spy working with the Collectors.  What?  Like seriously, what?  

[Solmanian]

since its happened offscreen... so what? we know other forces fought the collectors, including alliance and hierarchy

[AlphaJarmel]

Solmanian wrote...

since its happened offscreen... so what? we know other forces fought the collectors, including alliance and hierarchy

Did you miss the part where a Cerberus operative was working with the Collectors?

[TheLostGenius]

 Cereberus was the bad guy all along.

It's funny to see the two different fan groups:

ME1 hardcores 

ME hardcores

The story of the characters in ME2 were told IN THE GAME, ME1 was more plot driven, like 3. The game would never end if it was endless recruting to listen to characters complain about their problems. Each character from ME2 story is resolved and is carried on substantially into ME3...so far. Except for Thane...LOL

[Vikali]

I have no doubts Cerberus was working with the collectors. They did before, they probably did during all of ME2, and they reap the rewards no matter the ending you choose in two.

[AlphaJarmel]

KitePolaris wrote...

I have no doubts Cerberus was working with the collectors. They did before, they probably did during all of ME2, and they reap the rewards no matter the ending you choose in two.

This causes so many plot contradictions and holes that I'm staring at my screen saying WTF.

The fact that Shepard doesn't even stop to ask question that statement is another big WTF.

[Taleroth]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

since its happened offscreen... so what? we know other forces fought the collectors, including alliance and hierarchy

Did you miss the part where a Cerberus operative was working with the Collectors?

And? Doesn't mean he was doing it under orders. He could have just been a jerk. Or his cell could have been one of the dumbest cells. Or TIM was trying to sabotage alliance efforts to stop the Collectors, so that only his efforts could succeed.

Cerberus is full of shady people doing shady stuff. That's completely consistent with ME2.

Modificata da Taleroth, 06 marzo 2012 - 08:41 .

[AlphaJarmel]

Taleroth wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

since its happened offscreen... so what? we know other forces fought the collectors, including alliance and hierarchy

Did you miss the part where a Cerberus operative was working with the Collectors?

And? Doesn't mean he was doing it under orders. He could have just been a jerk. Or his cell could have been one of the dumbest cells. Or TIM was trying to sabotage alliance efforts to stop the Collectors, so that only his efforts could succeed.

Cerberus is full of shady people doing shady stuff. That's completely consistent with ME2.

 
The whole point and I mean the whole point of ME2 was that Cerberus was fighting the Collectors.  Why would the Collectors even work with Cerberus?  So the guy just happens to go rogue and help the Collectors?  Shepard doesn't even bother to follow up that statement.

That wording is pretty clear in that he was working with the Collectors.  

Modificata da AlphaJarmel, 06 marzo 2012 - 08:44 .

[Taleroth]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

The whole point and I mean the whole point of ME2 was that Cerberus was fighting the Collectors.

No, the point was the Lazarus cell fighting the Collectors. And TIM was after technology for human dominance. If TIM could surrender a colony to get that technology, he would have in a heartbeat. Either through trade or by sabotaging Alliance efforts.

Why would the Collectors even work with Cerberus?

Collectors will work with lots of people. It's even stated in ME2 that they regularly buy slaves and captives from merc groups.

Shepard doesn't even bother to follow up that statement.

What's to follow up? A Cerberus agent doing shady crap.

Modificata da Taleroth, 06 marzo 2012 - 08:45 .

[Vikali]

AlphaJarmel wrote...
 
The whole point and I mean the whole point of ME2 was that Cerberus was fighting the Collectors.  Why would the Collectors even work with Cerberus?  So the guy just happens to go rogue and help the Collectors?  Shepard doesn't even bother to follow up that statement.

That wording is pretty clear in that he was working with the Collectors.

I was under the imprssion the whole point was so TIM could get closer to the technology he was seeking. He needed to paint it up so Shepard would actually follow him. In the end, he didn't give a damn about anything buttechnology.

After all, it's been established long before ME3 release that he wants to control the reapers. Who else was going to get him there? Shepard, and he/she did.

Modificata da KitePolaris, 06 marzo 2012 - 08:46 .

[AlphaJarmel]

Taleroth wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

The whole point and I mean the whole point of ME2 was that Cerberus was fighting the Collectors.

No, the point was the Lazarus cell fighting the Collectors. And TIM was after technology for human dominance.

Why would the Collectors even work with Cerberus?

Collectors will work with lots of people. It's even stated in ME2 that they regularly buy slaves and captives from merc groups.

Shepard doesn't even bother to follow up that statement.

What's to follow up? A Cerberus agent doing shady crap.

The Ilusive Man threw most of his resources going after the Collectors.  EDI points out how draining the Lazarus Cell was.  Even then this is never stated or implied anywhere in ME2 that the Illusive Man was even associating with the Collectors other than trying to obtain their technology.  I mean the Collectors must have known that Cerberus was backing Shepard so why would they work with a group that is directly opposing them?

They made the point clear that the Collectors never worked with a particular group as so much as used them.  They would trade technology for what they needed but that's particularly it.  The closest they came was with the Shadow Broker and that was directly against Cerberus for Shepard's body.

What's to follow up with the group that helped you win against the Collectors was also helping them at the same time?  Really?  Just because a group is shady doesn't mean that they act illogically.

Edit:Also if this was the case, why wouldn't anyone of the Alliance notify Shepard about what happened with Vega and that Cerberus was working with the Collectors?

Modificata da AlphaJarmel, 06 marzo 2012 - 08:55 .

[Vikali]

I don't think the Collectors were even an issue. Their defeat led to even better technology: Reaper. And TIM scavenged every last bit he could manage. Then melted it and pumped it into Grayson, but that doesn't mean anything cause Cerberus is logical, amitire?

And the Alliance was pretty sure Shepard was Cerberus.

Modificata da KitePolaris, 06 marzo 2012 - 08:56 .

[Taleroth]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

 other than trying to obtain their technology.

They would trade technology for what they needed but that's particularly it.  

All the pieces are in your own statement.

And that's ignoring the simple possibility that it was one guy acting on his own. One Cerberus agent selling out a colony to the Collectors doesn't equate to The Illusive Man and the Collector General palling around drinking Mojitos.

Modificata da Taleroth, 06 marzo 2012 - 08:57 .

[AlphaJarmel]

Taleroth wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

 other than trying to obtain their technology.

They would trade technology for what they needed but that's particularly it.  

All the pieces are in your own statement.

And that's ignoring the simple possibility that it was one guy acting on his own. One Cerberus agent selling out a colony to the Collectors doesn't equate to The Illusive Man and the Collector General palling around drinking Mojitos.

Alright so he sold out the colony in order for Cerberus to get better technology?  Fine I could accept that.

Again why would nobody in the Alliance mention this?  Shepard kept repeating the whole mantra about working with Cerberus to stop the Collectors.  Either Anderson or Hackett, both of whom would have access to Vega's records, only would have needed to state something like that in order to shut Shepard up.  

[Vikali]

Do you follow the books? It was established in the last one Cerberus had a tight grip on the Alliance due to spies. No saying that information even made it to those two.

[AlphaJarmel]

KitePolaris wrote...

Do you follow the books? It was established in the last one Cerberus had a tight grip on the Alliance due to spies. No saying that information even made it to those two.

So you're saying there was massive conspiracy inside the Alliance that prevented any of that information from coming out even though that information would have been of high priority?  They even reassigned Ashley to Horizon to investigate the Collector attacks but something major such as Cerberus working with the Collectors wouldn't have reached the brass?

Even still why would Shepard have not even ask about this?  I mean this is still in straight contradiction of ME2 and what we're all doing in this thread is speculation and trying to fill in a hole left by that statement.

Modificata da AlphaJarmel, 06 marzo 2012 - 09:13 .

[Vikali]

I thought Horizon was established to be a little too convenient. And deliberately leaked information to her. And Anderson was even scared to send messages through Alliance. That's why the whole turian thing was done under the table so to speak.

And I don't think it's as big of a contradiction as you make it out to be. The Collectors hit a whole bunch of colonies. Why would selling out a squad to save your ass be so contrived?

[AlphaJarmel]

KitePolaris wrote...

I thought Horizon was established to be a little too convenient. And deliberately leaked information to her. And Anderson was even scared to send messages through Alliance. That's why the whole turian thing was done under the table so to speak.

And I don't think it's as big of a contradiction as you make it out to be. The Collectors hit a whole bunch of colonies. Why would selling out a squad to save your ass be so contrived?

Again this stands in straight contradiction of ME2.  Now are there plausible theories?  Sure I guess although it still seems a bit of a stretch in that you would have one cell helping an enemy and the other one trying to destroy said enemy.  Even then I don't understand why the Collectors would give help to a known enemy.

Whatever to all of that though.  It still seems like there would be a followup question on Shepard's part unless he/she knew this already in which case why hasn't the audience heard this?

There's some bad writing somewhere either in giving this huge plotpoint in a minor conversation or not having Shepard ask followup questions.

[Vikali]

Again, I don't see where it says a whole cell was acting. TIM has a slick tongue that makes a lot of promises and says a lot. I still fail to see this from your perspective, but I'll agree to disagree.

[AlphaJarmel]

KitePolaris wrote...

Again, I don't see where it says a whole cell was acting. TIM has a slick tongue that makes a lot of promises and says a lot. I still fail to see this from your perspective, but I'll agree to disagree.

Again I don't see why a single agent would do this on their own as he was most likely human and so the Collectors would have just taken him as well.  I don't see the benefit in why an individual would go rogue like this.

[TheLostGenius]

KitePolaris wrote...

I have no doubts Cerberus was working with the collectors. They did before, they probably did during all of ME2, and they reap the rewards no matter the ending you choose in two.

No kidding, remember how everything besides the first mission (mains) in 2 were traps that enabled the Collectors closer contact with TIM? He was the villain. I think some fans are VERY upset that a character in a video game deceived them so artfully. IF you believe in TIM, Cereberus, you believed a big pack of lies. 

[staindgrey]

TheLostGenius wrote...

 Cereberus was the bad guy all along.

It's funny to see the two different fan groups:

ME1 hardcores 

ME hardcores

The story of the characters in ME2 were told IN THE GAME, ME1 was more plot driven, like 3. The game would never end if it was endless recruting to listen to characters complain about their problems. Each character from ME2 story is resolved and is carried on substantially into ME3...so far. Except for Thane...LOL

Yeah... I just crossed paths with him. Kinda glad I didn't choose my FemShep who romanced the guy...

[TheLostGenius]

staindgrey wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

 Cereberus was the bad guy all along.

It's funny to see the two different fan groups:

ME1 hardcores 

ME hardcores

The story of the characters in ME2 were told IN THE GAME, ME1 was more plot driven, like 3. The game would never end if it was endless recruting to listen to characters complain about their problems. Each character from ME2 story is resolved and is carried on substantially into ME3...so far. Except for Thane...LOL

Yeah... I just crossed paths with him. Kinda glad I didn't choose my FemShep who romanced the guy...

The whole "i'm sick but happy and dying" thing was very lol

[Vikali]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

Again, I don't see where it says a whole cell was acting. TIM has a slick tongue that makes a lot of promises and says a lot. I still fail to see this from your perspective, but I'll agree to disagree.

Again I don't see why a single agent would do this on their own as he was most likely human and so the Collectors would have just taken him as well.  I don't see the benefit in why an individual would go rogue like this.

Then why wouldn't they have just taken all the humans they had come into contact with in all the in-between stories. You're mischaracterizing them. I recommend the books and comics. Perhaps you'll be a little less confused.

[hawkens982]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

 Vega states in one of your conversations with him that he was waiting with his squad to attack the Collectors until he got betrayed by a Cerberus spy working with the Collectors.  What?  Like seriously, what?  

Really? In my current playthrough he said his entire squad was killed along with his mentor by collectors and he had to secure intel instead of saving the colonists (this was during the brawl with Shepard) when your on the Normandy for the first time. Maybe he says that later on...but ya....thats a major plot hole right there.