144 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrf]

This is simply something I was thinking about...

Why is Morrigan considered evil for giving you a choice?

She offerred a method to save your life and gave you the option to choose.  If she really wanted to be evasive, Morrigan could have simply forced you to take her along for the final battle...

If she were truly evil, would it not be easier for her to simply sleep with you and say NOTHING about the possiblity of the old god transfer, and let the killing blow take place anyway?

In fact, if she slept with the main char at any point, she would already be pregnant even without the final scene.

Perhaps she was really being sincere when she offerred you the choice?

Well, random ponderings.

Modifié par Tyrf, 26 novembre 2009 - 02:49 .

[Rhys Cordelle]

Whether or not she's evil depends on what her intentions are for the god child

[KalosCast]

Morrigan's not evil, she's just a ****

[Tyrf]

For doing what?

[skiwolf7]

I never thought Morrigan was evil. I always thought she was just very selfish and uncaring towards the general populace. If her approval rating of you is high enough, she can be downright caring. I guess she could be considered evil by some but I think that's arguable. Heck, I consider Loghain far more evil than Morrigan. He actually actively had a direct hand in killing lots of people and even hired assassins to kill you. Morrigan never did any such thing.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Loghain isn't evil either, just derranged. He genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing.

[Trelow-LMG]

Evil.

[Belhawk]

skiwolf7 wrote...

I never thought Morrigan was evil. I always thought she was just very selfish and uncaring towards the general populace. If her approval rating of you is high enough, she can be downright caring. I guess she could be considered evil by some but I think that's arguable. Heck, I consider Loghain far more evil than Morrigan. He actually actively had a direct hand in killing lots of people and even hired assassins to kill you. Morrigan never did any such thing.

u mean like today's politians , but i agree, very selfish and self centered.

[HoLyEmperor]

Morrigan is Neutral Evil, in the traditional D&D sense.  She has no respect for laws, nor does she intentionally seek the breakdown of law.  What she cares about is herself, survival of the fittest, and freedom (for those strong enough to earn it).

She loathes those who are too weak to free themselves.  The Circle Magi?  Slaves, best to wipe them out.  The Tevinter slaver in Denerim?  Obviously the elves are pathetic and weak, so best to sacrifice their life force for a gain in health.

She IS evil.  But not the mindless, cackling kind.  Evil doesn't mean desiring the destruction of humans or human civilization.  Evil, in Morrigan's case, is simply her survival instinct coupled with her lack of pity or sympathy for those who can't help themselves.

[Tyrf]

Well, that's the thing. Morrigan is nice (in her own way) to the player once you get to the point where you crack her shell, so to speak. I would say she's more Chaotic Neutral, in the sense that she doesn't help anyone who she doesn't WANT to help and won't go out of her way to hurt anyone unless they pose a threat to her.  Her other stances are quite...random, really.

Modifié par Tyrf, 26 novembre 2009 - 03:02 .

[marshalleck]

Tyrf wrote...Her other stances are quite...random, really.

No.

HolyEmperor has the right of it.

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 novembre 2009 - 03:11 .

[X ROMAN VI X]

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Morrigan is Neutral Evil, in the traditional D&D sense.  She has no respect for laws, nor does she intentionally seek the breakdown of law.  What she cares about is herself, survival of the fittest, and freedom (for those strong enough to earn it).

She loathes those who are too weak to free themselves.  The Circle Magi?  Slaves, best to wipe them out.  The Tevinter slaver in Denerim?  Obviously the elves are pathetic and weak, so best to sacrifice their life force for a gain in health.

She IS evil.  But not the mindless, cackling kind.  Evil doesn't mean desiring the destruction of humans or human civilization.  Evil, in Morrigan's case, is simply her survival instinct coupled with her lack of pity or sympathy for those who can't help themselves.

Evil is subjective, your version of evil probably differs from mine. I believe that she is not evil, but she just believes in Social Darwinism with a tint of dark humor. Nothing too bad about that.

The Tevinter slavers on the other hand, are my version of evil.

[marshalleck]

X ROMAN VI X wrote...

HoLyEmperor wrote...

Morrigan is Neutral Evil, in the traditional D&D sense.  She has no respect for laws, nor does she intentionally seek the breakdown of law.  What she cares about is herself, survival of the fittest, and freedom (for those strong enough to earn it).

She loathes those who are too weak to free themselves.  The Circle Magi?  Slaves, best to wipe them out.  The Tevinter slaver in Denerim?  Obviously the elves are pathetic and weak, so best to sacrifice their life force for a gain in health.

She IS evil.  But not the mindless, cackling kind.  Evil doesn't mean desiring the destruction of humans or human civilization.  Evil, in Morrigan's case, is simply her survival instinct coupled with her lack of pity or sympathy for those who can't help themselves.

Evil is subjective, your version of evil probably differs from mine. I believe that she is not evil, but she just believes in Social Darwinism with a tint of dark humor. Nothing too bad about that.

The Tevinter slavers on the other hand, are my version of evil.

He's talking about the D&D definition of evil.

Think of the good-evil scale like this:

good ------- evil
society ----- self

[X ROMAN VI X]

Ah, my only experience with D&D was a minor encounter during some time spent with Neverwinter Nights 2, then it corrupted my saves so I gave up.

[red8x]

I think Morrigan is a textbook psychopath:

• She preys on others to get her way using charm/sexuality
• She lacks a conscience
• Lacks any sense of guilt
• Lacks empathy
• Is egocentric
• Constantly violates social norms
• Has a general disregard for the law
• Is emotionally shallow

The choice she gives is hardly a choice at all especially since she withholds so much information.

Plus what exactly was this ritual?  She says it must be done on the eve of battle, and it involves laying with the most recently made Grey Warden to be most effective.  Unfortunately the cut scene just shows her blowing out a candle after crawling on top of the chosen Warden.  Sometimes I get the feeling it was just a ploy to get the PC to be selfish and choose primal survival over selfless sacrifice.

[Forumtroll]

Morrigan acts like the rest of Claudia Black's characters. Going back and watching every episode of Farscape should illuminate her character.

[marshalleck]

X ROMAN VI X wrote...

Ah, my only experience with D&D
was a minor encounter during some time spent with Neverwinter Nights 2,
then it corrupted my saves so I gave up.

Well you're right, I mean, definition of evil certainly is subjective and varies from culture to culture. The self/society thing is simply an easy way to polarize the spectrum so that people can have meaningful discussion.

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 novembre 2009 - 03:20 .

[X ROMAN VI X]

red8x wrote...

I think Morrigan is a textbook psychopath:

• She preys on others to get her way using charm/sexuality
• She lacks a conscience
• Lacks any sense of guilt
• Lacks empathy
• Is egocentric
• Constantly violates social norms
• Has a general disregard for the law
• Is emotionally shallow

The choice she gives is hardly a choice at all especially since she withholds so much information.

Plus what exactly was this ritual?  She says it must be done on the eve of battle, and it involves laying with the most recently made Grey Warden to be most effective.  Unfortunately the cut scene just shows her blowing out a candle after crawling on top of the chosen Warden.  Sometimes I get the feeling it was just a ploy to get the PC to be selfish and choose primal survival over selfless sacrifice.

My experience with psychologists and their diagnosis are that they are utterly worthless. Psychopathy could be used to describe a person who simply hides their feelings, and if I were Morrigan I would probably hide my feelings too. Seeing as Flemeth was most likely a bad mother, teaching Morrigan to be untrusting. 

Plus seeing as Morrigan was born in the wild it makes sense to stand out of the social norms, no?

@marshalleck indeed. Haha 

[marshalleck]

red8x wrote...

I think Morrigan is a textbook psychopath:

• She preys on others to get her way using charm/sexuality
• She lacks a conscience
• Lacks any sense of guilt
• Lacks empathy
• Is egocentric
• Constantly violates social norms
• Has a general disregard for the law
• Is emotionally shallow

The choice she gives is hardly a choice at all especially since she withholds so much information.

Plus what exactly was this ritual?  She says it must be done on the eve of battle, and it involves laying with the most recently made Grey Warden to be most effective.  Unfortunately the cut scene just shows her blowing out a candle after crawling on top of the chosen Warden.  Sometimes I get the feeling it was just a ploy to get the PC to be selfish and choose primal survival over selfless sacrifice.

Not really a psychopath, no. She certainly does display empathy and guilt, particularly if you have romanced her and keep the ring she gives you. The rest of that is just antisocial behavior, and I don't think anyone would argue that Morrigan is not antisocial.

[Volourn]

"Loghain isn't evil either, just derranged. He genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing."



No, he most certainly is evil.





Morrigan isn't evil. She's just not a good two shoes. Some of her actions do seem borderline evil, and uncaring but evil? No.

[EricHVela]

Practical does not automatically mean evil. Her motives could easily go beyond the player's understanding. One of the endings leaves an ambiguous motive. She could be trying to free an entity that was oppressed under the darkspawn corruption as she said for unknown reasons.

[SPOILER]Maybe she feels that the best being to defeat the archdemons is something that used to be one, but she doesn't trust society to try to use it to their own purposes Maybe she is thinking of the greater good far beyond what anyone else can foresee.

[X ROMAN VI X]

red8x wrote...



I think Morrigan is a textbook psychopath:



She preys on others to get her way using charm/sexuality

She lacks a conscience

Lacks any sense of guilt

Lacks empathy

Is egocentric

Constantly violates social norms

Has a general disregard for the law

Is emotionally shallow


The choice she gives is hardly a choice at all especially since she withholds so much information.



Plus what exactly was this ritual? She says it must be done on the eve of battle, and it involves laying with the most recently made Grey Warden to be most effective. Unfortunately the cut scene just shows her blowing out a candle after crawling on top of the chosen Warden. Sometimes I get the feeling it was just a ploy to get the PC to be selfish and choose primal survival over selfless sacrifice.

My experience with psychologists and their diagnosis are that they are utterly worthless. Psychopathy could be used to describe a person who simply hides their feelings, and if I were Morrigan I would probably hide my feelings too. Seeing as Flemeth was most likely a bad mother, teaching Morrigan to be untrusting.



Plus seeing as Morrigan was born in the wild it makes sense to stand out of the social norms, no?



@marshalleck indeed. Haha

[Forumtroll]

Morrigan expresses regret for leaving you if you romanced her as a male character. She really isn't all that charming.

[rumination888]

marshalleck wrote...

He's talking about the D&D definition of evil.

Think of the good-evil scale like this:

good ------- evil
society ----- self

Theres a lot of people that would argue that communism is "evil".

I think people choose what society deems as the "good" choice in Dragon Age because they want to feel good about themselves. Who doesn't want to feel good about themselves?  Is it evil to want to feel good about yourself?

[X ROMAN VI X]

rumination888 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

He's talking about the D&D definition of evil.

Think of the good-evil scale like this:

good ------- evil
society ----- self

Theres a lot of people that would argue that communism is "evil".

I think people choose what society deems as the "good" choice in Dragon Age because they want to feel good about themselves. Who doesn't want to feel good about themselves?  Is it evil to want to feel good about yourself?

As a Communist myself, I don't understand why people think Communism is evil. Sure some of the leaders were, but that doesn't make the ideas in general bad or evil.

And in reality there are hardly any decisions that will benefit everyone, there is always a winner and always a loser. It can be seen throughout classical history. Read about Cicero as Counsul in the Roman Republic.