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[Basher of Glory]

IIRC it's on the 4th floor of the tower, the first room to the left. A desire demon obviously bewitched a templar, putting the idea of a "happy family" in his mind.
When I ask the demon, she or it brings forward some arguments about making the guy happy, giving him, what he really wants etc.
When I let the demon go and have Leliana in my party, she comments the scene in a positive way, something like "...better short time of luck than nothing". When I continue arguing with the demon it comes to a fight and the templar will be killed.

Question: Is there a way to solve the situation without killing the templar? As far as I can see, I tried all options now, but the outcome was either a free demon or a dead demon and a dead templar.

[eifel_105]

If you want the desire demon to stop you have to kill the templer, which does suck but it seems to be this way with every situation involving a desire demon. (there is one exception but I won't spoil it) Otherwise, he lives if she does.

[Basher of Glory]

eifel_105 wrote...

... which does suck ...

Indeed. I miss something like a "banish"-spell

[ReubenLiew]

There can be no mercy for the Daemon, better death than false promises, for the Daemon only deals in lies, and any happiness is but fleeting and shallow compared to the joy of serving and dying in the Emperors name! In the name of the Ordo Malleus, I smite ye...



...



Oh right wrong universe. I killed him, there doesn't really seem to be any way around it, either leave them alone or kill them all. But let's be honest, it was doing him a mercy, and Leliana's crazy if she thinks this is somewhat 'better'. The pursuit of happiness is overrated anyway

[kormesios]

The bewitched Templar isn't living a long fantasy life regardless. What should happen if you left them and waited for the Templars and surviving mages to clean the tower? Would they be able to kill the demon and save the Templar? I'm guessing no.



Ignoring that question: The arguments for letting them live are interesting, but even if you believe them (enough to think it's a better fate than death, anyway) it seems unlikely that the demon would confine her evil to just one templar. What happens if she gets bored (do they get bored?) or he simply dies of old age. The next victim might have more malevolent desires than simply living peacefully.

[Basher of Glory]

Oh, perhaps I've expressed myself ambiguously. I did not want to let the demon "alive", but I would have liked to save the templar

[kormesios]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Oh, perhaps I've expressed myself ambiguously. I did not want to let the demon "alive", but I would have liked to save the templar

Nah, you were clear enough.  That doesn't seem to be an option, though.  So the conversation started drifting.

It's possible we missed something.  There's certainly no obvious conversation choice that lets you bargain out of it.

I *think* I made sure I killed the demon first in the battle, but the templar doen't 'snap out of it' or anything.

[Tamyn]

I tried putting the Templar in the Force Field spell while I killed the demon and then I went on to kill other baddies but the templar tracked me down and I had to slay him.

[Endurium]

I always kill the demon first (she is a caster after all) and the Templar never snaps out of it.



I agree it's too bad we can't save him, but one of the ways this game tries to be 'dark' is by taking certain options away from us. Just like we can't save Danyla in the Brecilian Forest, etc.

[Basher of Glory]

Endurium wrote...

I agree it's too bad we can't save him, but one of the ways this game tries to be 'dark' is by taking certain options away from us. Just like we can't save Danyla in the Brecilian Forest, etc.

That would have been one of my next questions

[Fudzie]

Yeah, unfortunately there's no way to keep the Templar alive. He'd probably been enthralled for long enough to not be able to survive without the Demon anyway.



It's best to go Ordo Malleus on both of them; it's a mercy killing for one and divine retribution for the other.

[Vicious]

First time I let him go. Desire Demons aren't so much evil as alien. And every Desire Demon REALLY wants to experience the world firsthand. From the one in the Tower to the one inhabiting Conner, to Kitty, all want the same thing.



That said, KILL them both so you can get your hands on the Templar Armor!!

[Original182]

First time I let him go. Desire Demons aren't so much evil as alien. And every Desire Demon REALLY wants to experience the world firsthand. From the one in the Tower to the one inhabiting Conner, to Kitty, all want the same thing.

Then the demon has successfully misled you, like the Pride demon. This is the very reason why some apprentice mages fail the Harrowing. They let the demons take advantage of their pride or desires.
The desire demon is from the same group of demons who turned the Mages Circle into what it was, a place full of abominations. She uses sweet words to trick you into sparing her. Do not be fooled, they are all demons and should not be allowed to freely roam the world.

Imagine if it was your own daughter who is under the thrall of Kitty. Would you allow it because "desire demons aren't so bad and just want to experience the world"?

[Lianaar]

It depends on what you think the reason of life is. For some it is happiness, and he is undoubtedly happy. And he was not happy before. He didn't enjoy his place in life. Is it better to kill people who don't enjoy their place in life only so they don't lie to themselves?



The demon didn't put thoughts into him he never had. She took the hopes and wants he had, his own displeasures and wishes, and made them come as true as possible. What if he wakes up? What if he comes to realise he killed many of his own people and he lost everything the demon made him believe he has, and lost what he used to have before encountering the demon?



The demon takes him out of the place, I do not know how, but she is sure she is able to. Maybe she can, maybe she can not. I don't think that enthralling the templar was an evil deed of the demon. It wasn't mercyful either, but it is not a simple black and white decision. Unless you are a templar of course.

[Rugaru]

I think you are also forgetting that demons feed on emotion...desire demons feed on desire. You letting it go because all it wants is to "experience the world" you are just feeding it and making it stronger

[Rugaru]

Also just for a though experiment...if it was a rage demon feeding the templars deep impulse for rage and hatred...would you let it go then? It is the same thing as the desire demon feeding his inner desire....

[Lianaar]

Original182 wrote...
Imagine if it was your own daughter who is under the thrall of Kitty. Would you allow it because "desire demons aren't so bad and just want to experience the world"?

It really does depend. I have seen people who watched their own children slowly die away in sickness, kids who had no happiness to look for. Parents who did have to ask themselves: what happiness can my child look for in this life? And parents who couldn't answer that question. I am not sure they would not agree to a life, even if short (seeing the child will die soon, no matter what) if that life is happy.

The choice would be: a) false life, which is short but filled with happiness or  true life, which is short but filled with misery.

It is easy to say: I would pick the true one, as that is the morally correct choice. But morality's test is when you face such decisions in real life. Which I hope neither of us will.

I suggest to pick in the game as the personality of the PC you play wishes it. A blood mage might have no trouble with it. A templar likely should. A devout follower of the Maker should too.

[J0nnara]

And don't forget the desire demon in Conner wanted to kill all the people in red cliff and turn them into an undead army.

They are all evil.

[Creston918]

It's a simple debate really :



Walk away - get no xp.

Interfere - get xp from Templar and Demon kills.



Issue solved.

[Sarethus]

Lianaar wrote...

Original182 wrote...
Imagine if it was your own daughter who is under the thrall of Kitty. Would you allow it because "desire demons aren't so bad and just want to experience the world"?

It really does depend. I have seen people who watched their own children slowly die away in sickness, kids who had no happiness to look for. Parents who did have to ask themselves: what happiness can my child look for in this life? And parents who couldn't answer that question. I am not sure they would not agree to a life, even if short (seeing the child will die soon, no matter what) if that life is happy.

The choice would be: a) false life, which is short but filled with happiness or  true life, which is short but filled with misery.

It is easy to say: I would pick the true one, as that is the morally correct choice. But morality's test is when you face such decisions in real life. Which I hope neither of us will.

I suggest to pick in the game as the personality of the PC you play wishes it. A blood mage might have no trouble with it. A templar likely should. A devout follower of the Maker should too.

Lelianna agrees with it though

[Lianaar]

Creston918 wrote...
It's a simple debate really :
Walk away - get no xp.
Interfere - get xp from Templar and Demon kills.
Issue solved.

Yikes. I mean it, yikes. That is taking away everything I value in this game. The ability to role play. To make a personality, incorporate into a PC body and make decisions that reflect the personality of your choice, to which comes a world that supports differences and reacts to them. But then. I am not sitting and watching how you play, so I shouldn't complain  If you like that way (apart from the fact the game has a level cap) and until you enjoy it, go ahead.

As for Princess stabbity stab kill kill, she is clearly insane, isn't she? 

[Rugaru]

And that is what makes my dwarf like her sooo much

[Yenkaz]

Letting it go is not a morally sounds choice.

As Niall expressed later, the person who is under control dies shortly after, and she will just move on looking for a new victim to give "absolute happiness" for a little while - until they die believing an illusion.

There is no guarantee that the desire demon will be killed by anyone sweeping the tower later, and also no guarantee that even if it is defeated later, wont kill a few templars/mages in the process.

Modifié par Yenkaz, 26 novembre 2009 - 09:42 .

[Fulgrim88]

This was actually one of my favourite choices in the game, as it was one of the few "hard" ones.



I killed her, but still felt sorry for the Templar. The only reason i did it is the havoc she would have undoubtly wreaked amongst others if given the chance

[Vilegrim]

it's the most troubling kill in the game up to that point (At least the order I played it). If you culd guarantee that the desire demon wouldn't move on, I'd have let them both live, but you cannot, so they have to die.