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[Taleroth]

Nial died because he was fed on.  His explicit comment is that the creature had been feeding on him for too long.  I can't precisely recall if he commented on deydration, but he seemed far more concerned about having been fed on.

Which is exactly what the Desire Demon is doing to the Templar, as well. This is one of the very things you can point out before an attack, that it's going to use him up and move on to others.

Being a host is somewhat irrelevant to that point.  Except that it might actually be that hosts are safer from that effect.

Modifié par Taleroth, 30 novembre 2009 - 05:21 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

It never really specifies that its the feeding which kills him. The feeding just drained him of every emotions he had... or was that just the fade prison he was in?.. Anyway... I was under the impression that he had died from just being gone from his body for too long (ie. not being fed and dying of dehydration or starvation).

[Blue_dodo]

an interesting thought that wynne said was , if abominations still retained the sentenince are they truly evil ?



desire demons are truly abscure on one hand what they are doing does seem wrong in the moral sense but on the other hand they do keep to their word.



and still yet the deals made are always at the end to their advantage, sure it may leave you alone as of these moment, but it still gets free... and from that stand point it has won.



desire demons are perhaps the most fascinating of any ingame creature, I applaud bioware for the complex work on these demons, they are very thought provoking

[Arijharn]

Lianaar wrote...
The Blight is clearly erradicating everything in its way and as such is for my characters highly undesirable. As for evil? I am sorry, but I don't know enough to know it was evil. Spartacus was evil fr the Roman citizens and a hero for the slaves. If the bligth is an attempt of the old gods to break free from the imprisonment of the Maker, then it can be seen as not evil. Again, not saying it is evil or not. Merely that from the point of view of my characters it is a 'MUST STOP' event.

I don't quite understand your response really. Considering that this 'event' is drastically altering the landscape/peoples ways of life (i.e., butchering everyone it comes across/dragging them underground/converting to broodmothers etc) then it must therefore be labelled as evil right? Put yourself in your shoes afterall, it is something you clearly wish to stop because your character does learn enough to make a decision as to whether it is good or evil.

Personally, I think it is very apt to label them as an evil force due to these reasons:
1) Wanton destruction. The Darkspawn don't as it appears, build cities, they raze them and live in their hallowed out areas. It is remotely possible that they have created cities underground but how? It is usually those people who have become infected with their taint that arrive at their gates and are their artificers and their entire industrial strength seems to be dedicated to churning out armour/weaponry and the devices to create more of them.
2) No discourse/no negotiation. The Darkspawn surge to destroy everything (see above). As far as we know in the last 400 years since the last Blight the Darkspawn have not once come to a negotiating table (possibly because there has only been two Archdemons that we know of, and neither of them it could be assumed could talk ). The Dwarves have constantly been at war with them and they too make no mention of 'negotiation.' Although obviously the Dwarves wouldn't consent to one either.
3) Broodmothers; or rather the process on how to make more. You could argue that the Darkspawn only wish to increase their territory but it seems odd that they only do that at times with Archdemons at the helm, since it's clear that the more powerful Darkspawn are individually capable of leading armies too. In fact, it explains this in the epilogue. Also, since they only do this with enough bloodletting to fill an ocean, you can't seriously suggest that what they do they do it in a 'morally grey' fashion. Note the clear, defiant execution of a Denerim soldier as the hands of a Hurlock in the Denerim 'charge' movie.

KalDurenik wrote...

Ugh it all come down to the question "what is evil?"
They might not see themself as evil but we see them as evil... In that case who is right? We or them?

The one who holds the mightier sword... and who can also write.

[Lianaar]

Arijharn wrote...
I don't quite understand your response really. Considering that this 'event' is drastically altering the landscape/peoples ways of life (i.e., butchering everyone it comes across/dragging them underground/converting to broodmothers etc) then it must therefore be labelled as evil right? Put yourself in your shoes afterall, it is something you clearly wish to stop because your character does learn enough to make a decision as to whether it is good or evil.

I say that to define whether something (be it a creature or an action) is evil or not, you have to have a definition of evil. And that different people give different definition of evil. I personally (being in my own shoes) can not define something evil, which causes harm but whose motivation is not the causing of harm.
While I want to stop killerbees from killing my child, I can not call them evil.
If the blight is anything like the killerbees (created by men and biting back) then I can not call them evil. It doesn't change the fact I wish to get rid of it.

1) Wanton destruction.

In a way they seem to be methodic enough. I would love to learn their motivation. Should I know that I could easier label them evil or non-evil.

2) No discourse/no negotiation.

but for the books, where there is a sentinent darkspawn, or so I heard. I should read those books now.

3) Broodmothers; or rather the process on how to make more. You could argue that the Darkspawn only wish to increase their territory but it seems odd that they only do that at times with Archdemons at the helm

Wrong. Branka left 2 years prior to the events, so the making f the broodmother took place (likely?) before the Blight.

The one who holds the mightier sword... and who can also write.

Yep, victors write history. It doesn't make them any closer to the ideal of truth, but they still will be the cannon. Until history proves them wrong.

[Lianaar]

This is an entry from the codex. This by no means will decide the argument of course, merely show the diversity of the information delivered. Actually this one entry is a great proof for both opposing interpretation The beauty of words.



Desire Demon



'In all of my studies, I must say that the most intriguing was my interview with the desire demon. That the creature was willing to speak with me was a sign that this was no mere monster, mindlessly driven by its nature, but rather a rational being as interested in me as I was in it. It took a form that I would call female, though I have no doubt that it could appear otherwise. I wondered if it appeared as it did because I wanted it to or because I expected it to. She... and, indeed, I could only think of her as such now, ... smiled warmly at me and laughed a musical sound that seemed to thrill my old heart.



So frightened was I of this creature's legendary ability to twist the hearts of men, and so relieved was I when I looked across the table into her dark eyes. This was a fearsome creature of the Fade, but as I spoke with her, I slowly came to realise that this demon is merely as misunderstood as we mages are ourselves.



--From the journal of former Senior Enchanter Maleus, once of the Circle of Rivein, declared apostate in 9:20 Dragon.

[BooPi]

She's going to eat him. Since he can't speak for himself, your only judgment is to think, "Would I like to be eaten?" No? Then you have to prevent his being eaten.



I think what happened to Sophia in Warden's Keep is probably analagous. Kill the demon.

[Ulicus]

Lianaar wrote...

This is an entry from the codex. This by no means will decide the argument of course, merely show the diversity of the information delivered. Actually this one entry is a great proof for both opposing interpretation The beauty of words.

Desire Demon

'In all of my studies, I must say that the most intriguing was my interview with the desire demon. That the creature was willing to speak with me was a sign that this was no mere monster, mindlessly driven by its nature, but rather a rational being as interested in me as I was in it. It took a form that I would call female, though I have no doubt that it could appear otherwise. I wondered if it appeared as it did because I wanted it to or because I expected it to. She... and, indeed, I could only think of her as such now, ... smiled warmly at me and laughed a musical sound that seemed to thrill my old heart.

So frightened was I of this creature's legendary ability to twist the hearts of men, and so relieved was I when I looked across the table into her dark eyes. This was a fearsome creature of the Fade, but as I spoke with her, I slowly came to realise that this demon is merely as misunderstood as we mages are ourselves.

--From the journal of former Senior Enchanter Maleus, once of the Circle of Rivein, declared apostate in 9:20 Dragon.

I love that codex entry. It tells a brilliant story.

Silly, silly Maleus.

[Roxlimn]

The Templay had his little fantasy - it afforded him some small measure of mercy and pleasure, and it's nice that the Desire Demon was able to do this for him. That said, the Demon WAS going to move on and prey on others. The only way to make sure she doesn't is to kill them both. Even then, the Templar died thinking he was protecting his family - a happy death.

[Lianaar]

Ulicus wrote...
I love that codex entry. It tells a brilliant story.
Silly, silly Maleus.

I agree, though he has been doing a very good research. The other demons (or the ones I read) were also written by him. He has thoroughly explored the Fade and its creatures.
What made me think twice about the entry is, that he became Apostate. He didn't become a Maleficarium (or how ever it is spelled) nor an Abomination. The rest of the codex entry describes how desire demons are the most dangerous as their targets often don't have a clue they actually work for them. Smart creatures.

But if she didn't kill him, didn't feast on him, didn't possess him... then what was her motivation? 
Did she become a Shade? Which as Maleus describes is a demon that lives outside of the Fade without being summoned and preserves its own form, it gets accustomed to our environment (though some go crazy).