22 réponses à ce sujet

[dirksey]

 Hello all,
I played my first playthrough of mass effect (the first one) and its amazing!!! I played it through as a infiltrator, which was excellent, and loved the sniper a ton, but i want to try out more biotics on my next playthrough. so here are my three main ideas for the next run (on at least hardcore, if not insanity), let me know what you think.

1.) Go soldier, whoop up and be a pure survivor, use squadmates (liara/wrex and tali/garrus) for any powers i need/want. 

2.) Go Vanguard, add on sniper as a bonus talent, and go mainly pistols and sniper for weapons (pretty much would end up being a second infiltrator combat wise, but with biotics instead of tech)

3.) Go Adept, also with sniper bonus, play it like a back row assassin (freeze them up with biotics, throw in some big hits with the sniper), one downside is super low survivability

So a few questions...
Which of these three would you pick and why?
would using my squadmates powers exclusively (if i went soldier) be way less fun/fulfilling than if i had those powers to use myself?
Is singularity as amazing as its hyped up to be (if i went vanguard would i be missing out on something amazing/gamechanging)?
Is adepts glaring lack of defense/survivability going to make insanity into a super long war of attrition/nightmare of reloads?

Thanks in advance for any responses, looking forward to hearing what you guys think
        

[capn233]

One thing to consider is that before you get serious upgrades for the Sniper Rifles you will have pretty low rate of fire because the other classes do not have passive upgrades to sniper rifle heat dissipation like Infiltrator gets. It won't be the end of the world, but it is something to think about.

Pistols are ridiculously powerful in ME1 with the Marksman ability, so you could use them on the non combat classes easy enough. That said, the SR's do give you the ability to engage at more extreme ranges, which is helpful on a few missions.

Soldier is good in the game, and below insanity isn't too bad as you start off. You just need to take the right squadmates to make your life easier (like Kaidan with Lift) early game as the starting guns totally suck and that is what the Soldier depends on.

I didn't play Vanguard in the first game (nor did I play Sentinel) so I can't really comment on that class specifically. But your idea of a reverse infiltrator with biotics instead of tech is interesting.

Adepts don't have the health of other classes, but once you get a decent amp and level up a bit they are ridiculous. You could take Electronics if you want to buff your shields a bit and gain Overload. Alternatively there is the Assault Rifle, which is slightly more versatile than the SR. That is what I took on my Adept. It works fine. As for insanity, floating multiple enemies and using warp to increase damage works out. Enemies on Insanity take a while to kill regardless of the approach. Soldier with crappy guns is almost the longest though if you don't use a good squad.

[dirksey]

Good thought on the heat dissipation, Although I think I'd still snag the sniper cuz that's just how I roll.

Yeah, pistols are fantastic , loved them with infiltrator.

I'll probably pass on soldier, hadn't thought about how sucky some of the guns can be.

Adept sounds pretty sweet, anyone have experience with the vanguard who could offer an opinion on the whole "infiltrator with biotics" idea (vanguard with sniper)?

And thanks a ton for the answer capn233

[capn233]

Don't get me wrong, I liked the soldier class and did more playthroughs as it than as any other. Really the weapon thing isn't a huge deal unless you do New Game on insanity. But if you take a good biotic squad mate it helps out a lot. Having a gun for every occasion is also nice.

[dirksey]

true...i'll think about it. honestly no matter which i do ill probably end up playing through again to try out the other ones.

anyone out there tried vanguard sniper?

and also what is the main difference in paragon/renegade? i mean, it seams like if you have enough of either of them you can make things happen how you want, so does the fact that i intimidate someone (ie- wrex) into not getting himself shot instead of negotiating him down make a difference when i import into mass effect 2? or in the ending/the way my squad interacts with me (think dragon age dissaproval kinda thing)?

thanks again

[capn233]

It sort of depends.

In ME1 the Charm and Intimidate options weren't directly tied to the meter, although you did get points for milestones. To answer your question about importing, there are only a few minor differences when certain things are resolved in one way or the other. Outcomes have a larger affect, and of course certain ones are more important than others.

For example, how you interact with Garrus really only makes a minor difference in dialogue in the second game. Alternatively, a different cameo character has a bug so that it seems that you always took intimidate options with him in the first one.

[Arkalezth]

I've played all classes but sentinel in ME1, though I know the others enough to know how it works. Wall of text incoming:

Adepts aren't squishy, at mid game they can have Barrier up permanently. It's not as good as Immunity, but Immunity is ridiculously OPd. The only squishy class in ME1 is engineer, far beyond the others with neither Immunity nor Barrier (the latter can be taken as a bonus power though). So in the end vanguards are a bit more tough because of medium armor and a bit of DR if you go Shock Trooper, but not by much.

Infiltrators can do anything soldiers can, but with tech on top, so if you want something different, I'd go with a biotic class.

Now, vanguard vs adept? Well, it depends, they're similar, adept's cooldowns are better and Stasis is very good if you take Bastion specialization (clearly better than Nemesis IMO). A Vanguard with Singularity as a bonus power is pretty much and adept without Stasis and slower cooldowns, but with a some more weapon damage, specially pistols and shotguns, and Adrenaline Burst, which allows you to do things like throwing two Singularities in a row.

For specializations, Nemesis is good as it makes your Lift some sort of a second Singularity, but I prefer Bastion for adept (damage through Stasis, perma-Barrier, better cooldowns), and Shock Trooper for vanguard (DR, faster AR and perma-Barrier).

Bonus powers: The best IMO are AR for adept, and Singularity for vanguard. You can only unlock those with soldier and adept respectively, though. Electronics was suggested for the shield boost, but it doesn't make a really noticeable difference in my experience. Also, keep in mind that Carnage (shotgun talent) is kinda buggy and cancels Barrier, it has only happened sometimes to me, but if you want to be bug free, go with pistols. That will also let you more points to spend on biotics.

As for difficulty, ME1 is an example of how NOT to scale it IMO. What higher difficulties mainly do is giving Immunity to every enemy, so it's not that hard once you get a few levels, but fights are long and boring. Biotics help tremendously with this, as you can make enemies fly as soon as you see them, preventing them from using Immunity, and making fights much quicker. I played on insanity for a while, but nowadays I stick to lower difficulties so I don't get bored.

Charm/intimidate: sometimes using one or the other doesn't affect the outcome (as in your Wrex example), and sometimes does (for example, there's a mission where intimidate makes a character die, while charm gets him arrested). If you want to have every single option open to you, you'll need both, but keep in mind that biotic classes don't have many talent points left to spare.

[dirksey]

Gotcha, so if I'm going to keep my options open I'll need to put points in at least one of not both of the conversation things, which means I'll have to be very planned about my leveling.

As far as adept vs vanguard goes, two more questions
1- how do both of their survivability compare to infiltrator (since that's all I have experience with)?
2- if I need to cut some talent lines out due to lack of points, which would you guys drop for each (and remember I'll probably be adding SR to either one)?

Thanks again

[Arkalezth]

dirksey wrote...

Gotcha, so if I'm going to keep my options open I'll need to put points in at least one of not both of the conversation things, which means I'll have to be very planned about my leveling.

Well, that depends on how much you plan to play. You can receive some of those points for free: one to both charm/intimidate when you become a Spectre, and extra ones when you reach 25/50/75 % paragon (charm) or renegade (intimidate). So you can gain 4 free points per playthrough (in theory, to both, but that's hard, normally you would only be able to gain 4 for either charm or intimidate). So if you replay twice more with the same imported character, you can max the ability for free. But, if the character is for a single playthrough and you want a high persuasion, then yes, put points in those.

As far as adept vs vanguard goes, two more questions
1- how do both of their survivability compare to infiltrator (since that's all I have experience with)?
2- if I need to cut some talent lines out due to lack of points, which would you guys drop for each (and remember I'll probably be adding SR to either one)?

1) Infiltrator has Immunity and that means that you have to work hard to die. Barrier is not so hugely OPd, but it's very good anyway. You'll just have to be a bit more careful with attacks that ignore shields, but those aren't many in comparison. Survivability would go like: soldier > infiltrator >>> vanguard > adept/sentine >>>>> engineer.

2) Check out this thread: http://social.biowar...1/index/5628294

[dirksey]

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Great link too. So one final question.
Is singularity as good as the hype says? I mean, I know it's a sweet power, but will a solid lift be almost as good crowd control wise?

[Arkalezth]

It's one of the best powers in the game and usually the best crowd control one except for a few enemies that it doesn't work on. But you should be using every biotic power anyway, so you'll see how them all work in game.

[dirksey]

Yeah, I was just leaning toward the vanguard a little but it doesn't have singularity and if I'm gonna use snipers and pistols instead of shotguns most of the time then is singularity worth the trade off in toughness?

[Arkalezth]

If you're sold on snipers I'd go with adept. As I said, they're tough enough, it's just that classes with Immunity are unkillable. That way you'll also unlock Singularity for future use (best bonus power for vanguards hands down).

[dirksey]

I think I'll do adept plus sniper and do a pure paragon playthtrough, then vanguard with singularity and renegade to get a totally different experience for round 3

Thanks for all the advice!

[ncknck]

dirksey wrote...

Hello all,

So a few questions...
Which of these three would you pick and why?
would using my squadmates powers exclusively (if i went soldier) be way less fun/fulfilling than if i had those powers to use myself?
Is singularity as amazing as its hyped up to be (if i went vanguard would i be missing out on something amazing/gamechanging)?
Is adepts glaring lack of defense/survivability going to make insanity into a super long war of attrition/nightmare of reloads?

Thanks in advance for any responses, looking forward to hearing what you guys think
        

1. Adept, because fun.
2. No.
3. Singularity is overrated imho. Lift is better. Longer duration and works on more enemies (Colossus!)
4. Depends on how you level him. if you follow any adept build linked by Arkalezth, well then prepare to be owned. Any adept not maxing throw/lift/singularity is doing it wrong, and should go back to playing a soldier. Otherwise, an adept is pretty much unkillable. He may not have immunity, but can wear colossus armor anyway and has a regenerating shield on a fast cooldown. But most importantly, nobody shoots at him, because an entire battlefield is stasised, floating, or knocked down. No matter what, even on insanity i just frontal charge anything, just like with a soldier.

[Arkalezth]

ncknck wrote...
4. Depends on how you level him. if you follow any adept build linked by Arkalezth, well then prepare to be owned. Any adept not maxing throw/lift/singularity is doing it wrong, and should go back to playing a soldier.

If you get owned with those, the one doing something wrong must be you. Also, keep in mind that those are single playthrough builds with charm, you won't be able to max everything. If you have a massively better build that meets those requirements, feel free to post it.

[ncknck]

Well here is my first timer build who is capable to do anything and pass every dialog check in one go. Doing some drone killing, to unlock AR first.

Lvl 50 AR Bastion Insanity Adept (92 points)

00 Basic Armor
00 Pistols
12 Throw
12 Lift
12 Warp
12 Singularity
12 Barrier
01 Stasis - filler
12 Bastion
06 Intimidate
04 Spectre Training
03 Assault Rifles - filler

86 points + 6 points filler


Highest needed social renegade check is 10 (on Feros). Investing 6 in Intimidate and getting 75% renegade will fulfill that requirement. The most difficult check to pass is actually with the rear admiral Michilovich, he is forced pretty early in the game and his last check requires a 9int, but still very doable. Maxed biotics ensure easy play. Short of stasis, which is truly overrated. With three area disablers, and rotating those will keep almost anything permanently down, a single target disabler is a waste. Lift, Warp, Singul, Throw, Repeat. But its good for interrupting, and unlike other powers even a rang 1 stasis works on anything( TMaws, Colossus). Getting Lift early is a priority, even rang1 lifts Krogans iirc. Which a. prevents them from charging, b. prevents immunity c. prevents second life. And advanced throw will knock him back. Made Therum battle a breeze. Just 3 points into AR is imo very sufficient. Not much going on after that. Later, depending on whether more stasis duration or more firepower is wanted, filler points can be spent accordingly, AR preferrable.

Modifié par ncknck, 10 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[Arkalezth]

So, basically, you don't care for Stasis or AR. Well, Stasis is not overrated and shouldn't be a filler for bastions, and AR helps to actually kill the enemies, though a few points more or less won't make a big difference, I'll concede you that. I'll also concede you that the Nemesis in that thread spends too much in Decryption and I'd take AR as the bonus power (I've already recommended bastion anyway).

You also assume renegade, if you go with charm you'll need two more points for that check at Feros. Let's suppose that two of those filler points would be assigned to charm, with 4 remaining.

So, yes, it's definitely a good build and I like it, but it also misses some things that the bastion in that thread get, namely Stasis. You may prefer a build or the other, but don't go saying things like "you'll get owned with those and you should play a soldier then", because that's not true and confuses newbies.

[ncknck]

There is almost no reason to level Stasis past rang 1, it doesnt get more power, maybe its Bioware's oversight. Needed only for mobs which are not affected by other disablers, which arent going to be a lot. Basically its for TMaws and Turrets. The first is handled by Mako, second by a tech party member. Surely it is a nice skill, but for 11 points its way too expensive to deal with just single targets, considering other skills needing points for master levels.

I suppose it could be possible to max Stasis too, by bringing barrier down to 7 + playing a renegade, which would give enough points to make stasis = 12. But see no reason. 13 sec rang1 base duration is long enough to hurt mobs, if needed.

The point im making is that the power of an Adept are his/her biotics. Focusing on other skills will just make him a vanguard, or a soldier with bonus biotic. Which are probably more optimal for that playstyle, getting passive boni to weapon damage etc. But since insanity is not that difficult, lots of variance is possible indeed, so yes it was wrong of me to say that.

[Arkalezth]

Fair enough, you have a point about being 11 points being a big investment, what worries me a bit with basic Stasis is duration, IIRC it's shorter on high difficulties (haven't played those in a while because I find them boring and badly implemented).

There's another enemy who you fight once or twice and is only affected by Stasis, but I guess that's very situational and spending those 11 points to max other powers may be better overall, and maybe some of those filler points can be used to get Stasis to advanced, if desired.

[ncknck]

Stasis scales with enemy strength too, so on someone youd really want to be kept stasised it doesnt work one way or another. Here are some test numbers

Insanity rang 01 Stasis with 35% amp Geth Armature stun duration ~05sec
Veteran rang 12 Stasis with 35% amp Geth Armature stun duration ~20sec

I can definitely see its use on Veteran. But on Insanity, dont want to run math, but spending additional 11 points here would increase duration to.. 7-8 seconds or something. Which is barely a difference, and about the same time it takes it to recover from Throw, since knocked back duration is same for everyone. Lift, it isnt even funny.

in a while because I find them boring and badly implemented

And here i respectfully refer to my first statement. The insanity Ashley in the screenshot has some crap armor and doesnt even have Immunity skilled. Its a breeze really.

Modifié par ncknck, 10 mars 2012 - 05:04 .

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, it's not hard at all, it's just that I find all the Immunity span from enemies boring, as the only thing it achieves is to make fights longer. That, and I very much prefer ME2 combat. I used to play ME1 on insanity some time ago, but my last playthrough was on easy, so I could just be done with combat quickly. On the other hand, I find ME2 funniest on insanity.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 10 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[ncknck]

Which is basically what i said, the linked builds just cant handle more difficult settings. Sure it is possible, but i see them spending a lot of time covering evading etc, which is probably not for everyone. And fighting same enemies, where a Krogan who escaped CC will reheal, heh.