Okay, the dream Shepard has when he's chasing the happy little boy in SLOOOOOWW MOOOOOOTIIIIIOOOOOON through the forest and the kid keeps running away, and you have your sad music playing in the background? This is the kind of **** Modern Warfare would pull. Or Dead Island. OH WAIT.
I really felt that was one of the lamest scenes in Mass Effect, ever. Shepards dealt with death. (What if your Shepard, like, say mine; had a background of Torfan and Colonist? Everyone I've ever loved died. Why do I care about this kid?)
Dead kid is such a lame and overused trope that just seems to be trying to force something that isn't going to work.
That "Dream Sequence' was the single most forced emotional scene I've ever seen
Débuté par
Shwiggliness
, mars 07 2012 03:38
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#3
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 03:42
Karrie788
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I agree, eyerolling worthy scene right there. Some scenes are so wonderfully done, but this felt so forced. Especially knowing Shep's background. He/She's seen death countless times now. If he/she was to be traumatized by someone's death, I'd rather we saw one of his/her close friends.
Indeed.
KitePolaris wrote...
Get ready for more of them, buddy.
Indeed.
Modifié par Karrie788, 07 mars 2012 - 03:43 .
#4
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 03:43
Shwiggliness
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Hell, I never had wispy eyed dreams about Ashley, and letting her die crushed my soul. I hated letting her die.
#5
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 03:46
AlexMBrennan
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Indeed.
Edit: Except for the minor detail that there's no causality (ever heard of "correlation does not imply causation" or do I have to quote xkcd comics to prove you wrong?); some underlying cause caused Shepard to hallucinate the boy's presence on Earth, the appearance of this boy in his nightmares, and to perceive the thingy at the end as the same boy (before pressing one of three buttons to pick an ending)
Edit: Except for the minor detail that there's no causality (ever heard of "correlation does not imply causation" or do I have to quote xkcd comics to prove you wrong?); some underlying cause caused Shepard to hallucinate the boy's presence on Earth, the appearance of this boy in his nightmares, and to perceive the thingy at the end as the same boy (before pressing one of three buttons to pick an ending)
Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 07 mars 2012 - 03:50 .
#6
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 03:55
TheWang
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Reminded me of the ending of God of War 3. I really like how BioWare has put emphasis on emotion and the whole 'human' aspect of showing what is at stake and the affects to Shepard, this really helps with the immersion!
#7
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 03:59
shinder
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I think that the reality is that in a game full of an impressively large amount of highly-emotional and very well-done scenes, this fell short when compared to the rest of them.
I disagree about your assessment of Shepard's character. Shepard has seen death...you are correct. But what I think is the truth is that while Shepard has seen death, what Shepard hasn't seen as much of is countless of billions of innocent humans dying for no reason whatsoever. On top of that, the fact that the Reaper invasion has finally begun is fully hitting him now, and the added stress of the situation is causing him to become more emotional in situations where he normally wouldn't be.
I do think it was a pretty dumb scene...especially when compared to the rest of the emotional stuff. But I don't think it was necessarily as forced as the OP seems to believe.
I disagree about your assessment of Shepard's character. Shepard has seen death...you are correct. But what I think is the truth is that while Shepard has seen death, what Shepard hasn't seen as much of is countless of billions of innocent humans dying for no reason whatsoever. On top of that, the fact that the Reaper invasion has finally begun is fully hitting him now, and the added stress of the situation is causing him to become more emotional in situations where he normally wouldn't be.
I do think it was a pretty dumb scene...especially when compared to the rest of the emotional stuff. But I don't think it was necessarily as forced as the OP seems to believe.
#9
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:04
Karrie788
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No, I agree, it does make sense that Shepard starts to freak out about everything. I definitely get that. You can actually see it in some cutscenes in which he/she talks to her friends in an almost broken voice (I've been playing in French though, no idea how it turns out in English).
I think the issue here is that the dream is trying to create an emotional response from the player... and it doesn't work very well. I don't buy it for a second.
I think the issue here is that the dream is trying to create an emotional response from the player... and it doesn't work very well. I don't buy it for a second.
#10
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:05
mrbauxjangles
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I hate the kid honestly every time i see him i just want to put a bullet in his head or give him to some husks
#11
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:31
personalive09
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Durring the second "nightmare" you have i was running on 3 hours of sleep, and i had cured the Krogan, i was so tired i just couldn't process what was going on and had a breakdown XD. It was really pathetic of me, but i imagine that that was exactly how Shepard felt at the moment. Tired and emotionally stressed
In fact i would go as far to say that I rather like the dream sequences so far.
In fact i would go as far to say that I rather like the dream sequences so far.
#12
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:33
Ryuuken117
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I have never hated a child more than I hated that little hooded creature. I love kids, but god damn this one is annoying.
#13
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:34
Taleroth
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It's hard for me to be sad tofor a character whose only purpose was to die. Do they think making Jenkins younger would make us care? Wilson? Trask Ulgo?
The kid is the same guy. We stopped caring a decade ago.
The kid is the same guy. We stopped caring a decade ago.
Modifié par Taleroth, 07 mars 2012 - 04:34 .
#14
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:37
secretsubscriber
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We've never been shown Shepard's dreams before. Someone who's been through that much violence probably had a lot of dreams about the people he/she has seen die.
#15
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:39
Ryuuken117
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Taleroth wrote...
It's hard for me to be sad tofor a character whose only purpose was to die. Do they think making Jenkins younger would make us care? Wilson? Trask Ulgo?
The kid is the same guy. We stopped caring a decade ago.
I actually liked Jenkins, though. The little stories people told about him gave him character even after his death. People other than Shepard reacted to his death. That story in ME2 about how Jenkins got hit by a biotic push, got up and yelled "THAT WAS AWESOME!" got a chuckle out of me.
Plus, you know, he talked. That helps me care about a character. If I actually know who they are, that is.
#16
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 04:47
LinksOcarina
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Karrie788 wrote...
I think the issue here is that the dream is trying to create an emotional response from the player... and it doesn't work very well. I don't buy it for a second.
Or is it trying to create pathos for Shepard? Ive noticed the same things you have said; his voice is silent and weakened throughout the game, his eyes look heavy with black circles around them (something I did not do when re-making his face, sly move BioWare...
) and the few talks I had with Garrus so far have talked about the sleeplness nights he has had so far, an dhow the kid is haunting him.I think the reality is setting in, mainly because this is something he has never seen before, never dealt with. If he was a colonist and sole survivor he saw death and destruction, but it probably affected him more than we know.
I say its good characterization for Shepard, since it shows the wear and tear of the character as he is fighting what is looking like a losing battle.
#17
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 05:00
Darkfoxz87
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I Agree, I just lost Mordin and Shepard is thinking about some kid? I didn't like it. If the next dream is about that kid again and not about Thane and Kelly (R.I.P.) I'm going to get very angry.
#20
Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 09:53
ZeCollectorDestroya
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Jesus Christ it was so forced. It's like they tailored Shepard's character to it. What if your Shepard is a renegade? Would he care about some kid he saw for 5 minutes on Earth!?
#21
Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 09:56
ioannisdenton
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I guess i am the only one who did not find these dream sequences forced.
Yeah the protagonist ; the child, is forced but we also hear other voices.
Shepard had enough as i see it and he snapped.
Thing that bothered me MOST however was when Liara visits Shep after mordin's death and Shepard cannot even mention Mordin,yet he mentions the VS saying he miss his misses him whereas Mordin had just died.
Yeah the protagonist ; the child, is forced but we also hear other voices.
Shepard had enough as i see it and he snapped.
Thing that bothered me MOST however was when Liara visits Shep after mordin's death and Shepard cannot even mention Mordin,yet he mentions the VS saying he miss his misses him whereas Mordin had just died.
#22
Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 10:03
Someone With Mass
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ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...
Jesus Christ it was so forced. It's like they tailored Shepard's character to it. What if your Shepard is a renegade? Would he care about some kid he saw for 5 minutes on Earth!?
Given the fact that every Shepard has seen worse atrocities, why would he be that shaken by it that much at all?
#23
Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 10:03
ioannisdenton
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and i mostly play renegades...ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...
Jesus Christ it was so forced. It's like they tailored Shepard's character to it. What if your Shepard is a renegade? Would he care about some kid he saw for 5 minutes on Earth!?
but still i did not mind much, in Game's defence a renegade does not feel pity for thugs and criminals. That was an innocent child who got blasted.
I was most annoyed by the forced "Earth is a priority, give us your armies" Why Earth was special, Why liara snapped so badly after Thessia.
That dream sequence compared these in my eyes is much less forced.
#24
Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 10:06
CaptainCommander
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When I first played through I keep losing the kid and was getting so frustrated! But yeah I honestly felt more attached to the random convos on the Citadel than that glitched Kid that died like 3 times on Earth. If they wanted dream sequences probably people who died in previous games would be better or an unimportant yet known team member from ME1 or ME2 should of haunted Shepard. Like Pressley or maybe have Yeoman Kelly die on the Earth attack after she had joined the Alliance and put the Collector attack behind her.
#25
Posté 07 janvier 2013 - 10:10
Kataphrut94
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Yeah. Stuff the ending, those dream sequence were the absolute worst parts of the game.
Assuming they couldn't be cut altogether, here's how I would have done those scenes:
* Cut the vent scene at the start. It makes no sense, the kid's voice acting is terrible and his lines are stupid.
* Show adults acknowledging the boy on the ground. Either a soldier helping him up, or perferrably show him with his family. Maybe even have other children so it feels less like they designed one little boy purely to be emotionally manipulative. That's bad on it's own, but it gets frankly embarassing if you've played The Walking Dead game, which does that sort of thing a million times better.
* Instead of the dodgy playable dream sequences, have Shepard grimacing in his/her sleep, play a few clips of the whispered dialogue from characters who died (prioritise LIs, then major plot deaths, then minor plot or suicide mission deaths) then he/she bolts upward. classic dream catapault wake-up, simple, effective and unintrusive.
*Keep the dialogue options with Garrus, Liara et al where we can say how much this is affecting us. There's a bit in your first conversation with Garrus where a Paragon player can bring up the kid and how it made him/her feel, while a Renegade can shake it off. I honestly don't mind talking about the kid if it's an option, because that brings back the roleplaying aspect and you can decide how your Shepard would feel rather than having it forced on you. More stuff like that would not go amiss.
This way, Bioware can keep their intentions of humanising Shepard (not an inheritly bad idea, incidentally), but the player doesn't feel like they're being smacked over the head with it.
Assuming they couldn't be cut altogether, here's how I would have done those scenes:
* Cut the vent scene at the start. It makes no sense, the kid's voice acting is terrible and his lines are stupid.
* Show adults acknowledging the boy on the ground. Either a soldier helping him up, or perferrably show him with his family. Maybe even have other children so it feels less like they designed one little boy purely to be emotionally manipulative. That's bad on it's own, but it gets frankly embarassing if you've played The Walking Dead game, which does that sort of thing a million times better.
* Instead of the dodgy playable dream sequences, have Shepard grimacing in his/her sleep, play a few clips of the whispered dialogue from characters who died (prioritise LIs, then major plot deaths, then minor plot or suicide mission deaths) then he/she bolts upward. classic dream catapault wake-up, simple, effective and unintrusive.
*Keep the dialogue options with Garrus, Liara et al where we can say how much this is affecting us. There's a bit in your first conversation with Garrus where a Paragon player can bring up the kid and how it made him/her feel, while a Renegade can shake it off. I honestly don't mind talking about the kid if it's an option, because that brings back the roleplaying aspect and you can decide how your Shepard would feel rather than having it forced on you. More stuff like that would not go amiss.
This way, Bioware can keep their intentions of humanising Shepard (not an inheritly bad idea, incidentally), but the player doesn't feel like they're being smacked over the head with it.
Modifié par Kataphrut94, 07 janvier 2013 - 10:11 .
