I'm not a huge headcannon fan when there's no reason for it. The end of a trilogy tends to have more much better closure and finality to the story, not leaving it all up to... "Well did they die, did anyone have anything decent happen to them?"
Also the vague suggestion after the credits of "It was just a story/dream" is one of the worst tropes any IP can pull. Honestly the whole ending makes me picture Bioware's logo with a massive trollface on it.
Endings - Discussion from a Writer's Perspective (Spoilers maybe)
Débuté par
viceywicey
, mars 07 2012 07:31
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#27
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:04
Vikali
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Wildhide wrote...
KitePolaris wrote...
Vasparian wrote...
I have to wonder if the sites giving ME3 high reviews have played the game to it's endings. If they have, then I have even less trust in reviewers than I did before.
I don't understand this attitdue of 'If I don't like it, then it's not possible anyone else can.'
I actually like the endings. My only issue the the lolteleport bug, but in terms of the choices, I approve fully.
The problem is the 'choices' cancel out every other choice in the game and make them superfluous. The ending invalidates the rest of the series. And there's no real choice, it's bad ending A, B, or C. When the theme of ME up till now has been that your decisions and actions influence the results. If you do things right and work hard enough you can get a good ending, if you don't you can get a bad ending. And there are varying degrees in the middle.
In ME3 no matter what you do you can't get a satisfying conclusion. You get a plot hole filled mess and you can get no happy conclusion.
Satisfying is a very subjective term, good sir.
#28
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:06
Wildhide
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Correct, so in a game with supposed choices that touts they matter and that there are different endings, should not they actually supply the variety to satisfy more than one selection of the viewer/reader/player?
#29
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:07
RiouHotaru
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3 endings, with 8 different variations based on your completion.
That's a lot if you ask me.
That's a lot if you ask me.
#30
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:08
Vikali
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The minority is usually the most vocal. :3
#31
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:09
J5550123
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RiouHotaru wrote...
3 endings, with 8 different variations based on your completion.
That's a lot if you ask me.
The variations are surprisingly minimal actually.
#32
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:11
Wildhide
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3 deus ex machina endings that all carry the same grim, sad, no truly positive resolution isn't variety. 8 flavors of vanilla are all still just vanilla. And the final choice between the three essentially negates any other variation. You have no ability to impact the outcome for a large portion of the support characters either... which I still don't understand why the heck they were playing in Mass Relays to begin with.
Vague, messy, and plot holy.
Vague, messy, and plot holy.
#33
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:11
Tsantilas
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RiouHotaru wrote...
3 endings, with 8 different variations based on your completion.
That's a lot if you ask me.
That's bull**** though. None of the endings give the player any closure, and they're all riddled with plotholes. There are a ton of unanswered questions, and no matter which ending you choose, your closest friends and loved ones get the shaft, and that's just the few that you know about. What happened to the rest of them?
#34
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:12
RiouHotaru
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Wildhide wrote...
3 deus ex machina endings that all carry the same grim, sad, no truly positive resolution isn't variety.
And once again, people using the word "plot hole" and "deus ex machina" inappropriately. I swear no one knows what those words mean anymore.
#35
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:18
Wildhide
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Deus Ex Machina - God out of the Machine, a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
Such as the crucible
Plot hole - Normandy is fighting over Earth against the reapers for the entire ending. Suddenly in the mass relay with even your 2 squadmates who were with you running from the crucible for no apparent reason.
Such as the crucible
Plot hole - Normandy is fighting over Earth against the reapers for the entire ending. Suddenly in the mass relay with even your 2 squadmates who were with you running from the crucible for no apparent reason.
#36
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:21
Vikali
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I thought the teleport was confirmed as unintended.
#37
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:22
Wildhide
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Fails to explain why the rest of the Normandy is there as well.
#39
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:23
Vasparian
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Tsantilas wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
3 endings, with 8 different variations based on your completion.
That's a lot if you ask me.
That's bull**** though. None of the endings give the player any closure, and they're all riddled with plotholes. There are a ton of unanswered questions, and no matter which ending you choose, your closest friends and loved ones get the shaft, and that's just the few that you know about. What happened to the rest of them?
I think i've figured this out. There will be a 10-20 buck DLC that "completes the game" in 6months to a year. Clever EA/bioware very clever.
#40
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:23
Smeffects
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Wildhide wrote...
3 deus ex machina endings that all carry the same grim, sad, no truly positive resolution isn't variety. .
Wildhide wrote...
Deus Ex Machina - God out of the
Machine, a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is
suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected
intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
Such as the crucible
Actually thats not a deus ex machina ending. The crucible was something you knew about since the start at mars. Not knowing what it does is not considered a deus ex. For the situation to be one, the crucible should have appeared out of nowhere at the end for no apparent reasons other then it win the fight. Again not saying the ending is great, infact overall it was mediocre and synthesis is the only logical ending to me and still pretty poorly represented. But it was not a deus ex machina.
Modifié par Smeffects, 07 mars 2012 - 09:25 .
#41
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:24
Wildhide
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Really? Joker?
That's a stretch, even for headcannon.
That's a stretch, even for headcannon.
#42
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:25
Wildhide
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I attribute it as DEM because of how forced it feels into the story as some culmination, and layered on top of 1 and 2 it comes very late into the game. It's probably not the best term considering your point, but I haven't another at the moment.
#43
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:26
RiouHotaru
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Wildhide wrote...
Deus Ex Machina - God out of the Machine, a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
Such as the crucible
Plot hole - Normandy is fighting over Earth against the reapers for the entire ending. Suddenly in the mass relay with even your 2 squadmates who were with you running from the crucible for no apparent reason.
The Crucible is NOT a Deus Ex Machina. The fact it was discussed and brought up at the start proves it's not. The only way for the Crucible to be a Deus Ex Machina would be if it NEVER came up during the game and during the fight to take back Earth it suddenly warps into orbit, blows away the Reapers, and leaves just as soon.
It's a MacGuffin, NOT a Deus Ex Machina.
As for how the teammates get back to the Normandy, could be any number of reasons. We're not given a sense of time-scale.
#44
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:31
Wildhide
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I stand corrected.
It still comes off as very contrived to me.
It still comes off as very contrived to me.
#45
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:33
yoshibb
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KitePolaris wrote...
Joker panics and books it.
Joker doesn't panic, he was ready to go down on the flaming SR1
#46
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:35
Vikali
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Wildhide wrote...
Really? Joker?
That's a stretch, even for headcannon.
I was paying tribute to one of the people in that other thread. I think the joke may have flown by you.
But regardless, I think the destruction of the relays opens the universe more to continuining, therefore I'm satisfied. I wouldn't and don't mind if the story of Shep and crew just become another history.
#47
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:37
Wildhide
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I would be far more satisfied if the ending offered some form of closure to 3 games worth of story, or at least the potential for a happy ending for Shepard. At the moment it doesn't even bother to suggest one.
Edit: I wasn't in the other thread, so I didn't catch that one. Completely buzzed by my tower.
Edit: I wasn't in the other thread, so I didn't catch that one. Completely buzzed by my tower.
Modifié par Wildhide, 07 mars 2012 - 09:38 .
#48
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:40
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Well, now it is time for galactic society to build and rely on itself. That's enough for me and more than enough fodder for story. I never wanted my Shep to live happily ever after, nor did I ever expect it. In fact, I was a little more disappointed in the fact she lived.
Do I think they could have clarified things better? Of course. Am I upset or unsatisfied? Nope!
Edit: It was some hilariously hurrdurr person's explanation for the Normandy. That Joker was like NOPE and packed up and ran. lolollol
Do I think they could have clarified things better? Of course. Am I upset or unsatisfied? Nope!
Edit: It was some hilariously hurrdurr person's explanation for the Normandy. That Joker was like NOPE and packed up and ran. lolollol
Modifié par KitePolaris, 07 mars 2012 - 09:41 .
#49
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:46
Yakob
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I would prefer a much darker ending that MADE SENSE than a happy one like this...
I fully expected and was OK with pretty much anyone dying going into the final mission... then http://i1001.photobu...ax/yodawgme.jpg happened and I was totally pulled out of the game.
I fully expected and was OK with pretty much anyone dying going into the final mission... then http://i1001.photobu...ax/yodawgme.jpg happened and I was totally pulled out of the game.
#50
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:47
goofyomnivore
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I don't know why he ran. I assume Hackett told everyone Shepard was on the Citadel, so it wasn't some big boom from the Reapers and it was the Crucible firing. Then the lost planet is just random. I could just headcanon they fell on Mars or something if it is synthesis, and the synthesis altered the planets too.
I think I will pick destroy since it makes two of my necessary risks (empowering the Geth/AIs and curing the genophage) moot and I stop the Reapers. The Citadel crashes into Earth as well? I imagine humanity can salvage parts of it and get a technological leg up as well even if the parts have been 'disabled' not to mention all the Reapers we can study without having to worry about indoctrination. As for the Normandy and aliens stuck on Earth, sorry you got screwed.
I think I will pick destroy since it makes two of my necessary risks (empowering the Geth/AIs and curing the genophage) moot and I stop the Reapers. The Citadel crashes into Earth as well? I imagine humanity can salvage parts of it and get a technological leg up as well even if the parts have been 'disabled' not to mention all the Reapers we can study without having to worry about indoctrination. As for the Normandy and aliens stuck on Earth, sorry you got screwed.
