@Wildhide:
And I don't disagree. I myself wouldn't mind a happier ending.
But the "optimal" ending seems to allow for a continuation while allowing people to draw their own conclusions
Endings - Discussion from a Writer's Perspective (Spoilers maybe)
Débuté par
viceywicey
, mars 07 2012 07:31
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#52
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 09:48
Wildhide
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Explaining the Joker... er joke to me that way actually gave me a laugh, and the idea of Joker just saying it would be somewhat hilarious.
And see, I'm fine you liked it, I'm disappointed that the ending didn't leave options for a happier conclusion if you played for the game going that way. I wanted the choice and the potential. I don't even necessarily want everything perfect, but I wanted to be able to happy end my Shepard.
A darker or bittersweet ending can be fine, but I don't always want that. I actually like Bittersweet a lot, it makes you feel like to worked for it, but for me the only options here are all bitter, no sweet. Because when they story me to care about the characters, then I care about their resolutions.
I did expect a happily ever after, honestly, the games always came off as a massive Space Opera hero overcomes it all type of story, a la Star Wars. At least to me. So it was disappointing.
Honestly, my ideal ending would have been Relays destroyed, societies rebuild/get new tech, but with Shepard and most of his new/old crew together to be there and help.
That's why I really liked the losses you do suffer as part of the story. I loved Solus's end (That's the direction I went), because I felt it was written well and made sense.
The whole Normandy thing doesn't. Shepard and Garrus shall never get to watch football.
And see, I'm fine you liked it, I'm disappointed that the ending didn't leave options for a happier conclusion if you played for the game going that way. I wanted the choice and the potential. I don't even necessarily want everything perfect, but I wanted to be able to happy end my Shepard.
A darker or bittersweet ending can be fine, but I don't always want that. I actually like Bittersweet a lot, it makes you feel like to worked for it, but for me the only options here are all bitter, no sweet. Because when they story me to care about the characters, then I care about their resolutions.
I did expect a happily ever after, honestly, the games always came off as a massive Space Opera hero overcomes it all type of story, a la Star Wars. At least to me. So it was disappointing.
Honestly, my ideal ending would have been Relays destroyed, societies rebuild/get new tech, but with Shepard and most of his new/old crew together to be there and help.
That's why I really liked the losses you do suffer as part of the story. I loved Solus's end (That's the direction I went), because I felt it was written well and made sense.
The whole Normandy thing doesn't. Shepard and Garrus shall never get to watch football.
#53
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 10:11
Jaleth
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*spoilers regarding the end I guess*
I think this game is very well written. There seems to be a lot of negativity going around, which mostly involves the ending of the game. People are disappointed, but I doubt that has anything to do with 'bad writing.'
I finished the game, had a seriously emotional ending with a pretty bad outcome. My emotions told me 'hell no' but I would have been seriously frustrated if Bioware had given us a Disney ending. I wanted to feel the frustration of losing a character I've been growing attached to for three games now.
Shepard is trying to safe the galaxy from going extinct, I don't understand how that kind of mission would have a happy outcome. The characters themselves don't expect to make it, but they fight nonetheless. If Shepard could just walk out, get back to his or her love interest and make babies, the gravity of the mission would have been seriously diminished in my opinion. It is one thing to talk about the small possibility that all ends well, it is an entirely different thing to actually show it. I think they have done this really well.
I know not everyone wants unicorns and butterflies in the end, but the fact that there is so much heated discussion about the writing, especially regarding the endings, to me, just shows that BW had the balls to deliver a good story instead of listening to the 'popular' opinion.
I am very happy with this game, I think BW did an especially great job on the characters, reminding Shepard what it is s/he is fighting for. The little scenes you have with them, trying to keep each other's morale up are fantastic. There were no major face palm moments for me, (no terminator reaper moments). I think this is a worthy end of the trilogy.
Thank you for starting this topic the way you did.
I think this game is very well written. There seems to be a lot of negativity going around, which mostly involves the ending of the game. People are disappointed, but I doubt that has anything to do with 'bad writing.'
I finished the game, had a seriously emotional ending with a pretty bad outcome. My emotions told me 'hell no' but I would have been seriously frustrated if Bioware had given us a Disney ending. I wanted to feel the frustration of losing a character I've been growing attached to for three games now.
Shepard is trying to safe the galaxy from going extinct, I don't understand how that kind of mission would have a happy outcome. The characters themselves don't expect to make it, but they fight nonetheless. If Shepard could just walk out, get back to his or her love interest and make babies, the gravity of the mission would have been seriously diminished in my opinion. It is one thing to talk about the small possibility that all ends well, it is an entirely different thing to actually show it. I think they have done this really well.
I know not everyone wants unicorns and butterflies in the end, but the fact that there is so much heated discussion about the writing, especially regarding the endings, to me, just shows that BW had the balls to deliver a good story instead of listening to the 'popular' opinion.
I am very happy with this game, I think BW did an especially great job on the characters, reminding Shepard what it is s/he is fighting for. The little scenes you have with them, trying to keep each other's morale up are fantastic. There were no major face palm moments for me, (no terminator reaper moments). I think this is a worthy end of the trilogy.
Thank you for starting this topic the way you did.
Modifié par Jaleth, 07 mars 2012 - 10:12 .
#54
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 10:20
Srefanius
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The game hit me hard on an emotional way and I think this also means some kind of good writing. But: can it really be the goal to depress everybody? I mean in some ways its the best game I ever played, but the final route is simply depressing me. Lol actually I need a little distance to make another import playthrough.
#55
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 10:29
yoshibb
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There is no continuation after this. And even if there was, then making another ending canon would fix that.
A happy ending effects no one except the people who want a happy ending. It hurts no one and others happy with these endings can stick with them. There is no reason they should force a significant chunk of people to be unhappy when they don't have to. It's a game with CHOICE.
A happy ending effects no one except the people who want a happy ending. It hurts no one and others happy with these endings can stick with them. There is no reason they should force a significant chunk of people to be unhappy when they don't have to. It's a game with CHOICE.
Modifié par yoshibb, 07 mars 2012 - 10:29 .
#56
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 10:50
Bhaal
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Well at the end all i can think was: "Why the hell i was playing the game then!" Making peace between geth, quarians, turians and krogan. I cured krogan genophage but what's the point? What happened all the companions i saved? All my choices, at the end, nullified.
Mass relays and citadel destroyed so practicaly mass effect universe is ended, no more. Is that it? Felt so hollow...
Mass relays and citadel destroyed so practicaly mass effect universe is ended, no more. Is that it? Felt so hollow...
Modifié par Adakutay, 07 mars 2012 - 10:51 .
#57
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 11:02
viceywicey
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People seem to be slightly misinterpretting my entire discussion. While I do certainly agree with/cite the obvious plot holes, inconsistency, and mild rage at the lack of cohesive reconciliation in regard to all of Mass Effect's plot lines, I was mostly trying to highlight the character development. Granted, I might not have been the most articulate in emphasing the character development, and for that I apologize if I was misunderstood.
To me, character development is one of the principle foundations of writing in any genre and I felt that out of everything, on the character development at least, Bioware did an amazing job. For example, throughout the game in conversations with Garrus, Garrus continually reasserts to Shepard that his perception of the situation is too black and white. I found it fascinating to see Garrus iterate this sentiment especially since his sense of justice, of right and wrong, has developed immensley. The player sees him transform from this, hardcore "for justice" to a jaded and bitter vigilante, to a mature character who has learned to accept certain realities in his universe and deal with them as best as he can. Multiple times he expresses to Shepard this sentiment, and every time, Shepard has a sort of "do or die" mentality without any surrender to a "worst case scenario" type of assessment (at least to my recollection). The final decision then underscores this by putting Shepard in a bleak situation where each of his choices have profound consequences. The fact that there will be suffering regardless, is underscored every step of the way. Was this perfectly executed? No, and I certainly did take umbrage to the injustice done to those who love the characters and want them to live. But the journey of seeing the characters grow to get to this point, THAT was what I was trying to emphasize. To me, the point that we didn't get the "ending" that made sense, yes that is regrettable, but not the reason I created this thread.
Obviously there will be those of you who take issue with the quality of the writing based on their perspective and my responses and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
To me, character development is one of the principle foundations of writing in any genre and I felt that out of everything, on the character development at least, Bioware did an amazing job. For example, throughout the game in conversations with Garrus, Garrus continually reasserts to Shepard that his perception of the situation is too black and white. I found it fascinating to see Garrus iterate this sentiment especially since his sense of justice, of right and wrong, has developed immensley. The player sees him transform from this, hardcore "for justice" to a jaded and bitter vigilante, to a mature character who has learned to accept certain realities in his universe and deal with them as best as he can. Multiple times he expresses to Shepard this sentiment, and every time, Shepard has a sort of "do or die" mentality without any surrender to a "worst case scenario" type of assessment (at least to my recollection). The final decision then underscores this by putting Shepard in a bleak situation where each of his choices have profound consequences. The fact that there will be suffering regardless, is underscored every step of the way. Was this perfectly executed? No, and I certainly did take umbrage to the injustice done to those who love the characters and want them to live. But the journey of seeing the characters grow to get to this point, THAT was what I was trying to emphasize. To me, the point that we didn't get the "ending" that made sense, yes that is regrettable, but not the reason I created this thread.
Obviously there will be those of you who take issue with the quality of the writing based on their perspective and my responses and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
#58
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 11:12
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Way back in ME1 we had a conversation with Sovereign. He said something to the affect of "You cannot comprehend our existence". He was right, I can't comprehend it because it doesn't make sense! Some ancient civilization created synthetics that wipe out advanced organic civilizations to prevent organic civilizations from creating synthetics that wipe out organic life? I refuse to believe that anyone capable of that kind of circular logic would be intelligent enough to create the reapers, the citadel and the mass relays.
Apparently the game was rewritten at some point, the original ending had something to do with dark energy consuming everything, which would fit in with all the references to dark energy in ME2. The original ending seemed to be much more fulfilling than the current one. Instead we get this nonsensical plot where they have ruined the cthuluan feel of the reapers and simply made them seem idiotic and we get the catalyst as the AI controlling the entire thing. And I'd say this creates a rather severe plot hole. The plot of ME1 established that Sovereign attempted to begin the next cycle by signaling the keepers to activate the citadel mass relay, but this time they didn't do what they were made to do, so Sovereign had to improvise and recruit Saren to find another way for him to gain control of the citadel. However now we find out that the citadel is controlled by an AI core which also controls the reapers. Why didn't the catalyst just open the relay itself? It clearly has control of the citadel since it is able to open the citadel arms into its "flower" position. It said outright "The Citadel is a part of me", it also said it controls the reapers, it would have had to have been able to communicate with the reapers to control them. Why wouldn't it just have personally activated the citadel mass relay when Sovereign informed it that it could not? It might be possible that it didn't have control over that function, though that is unlikely, but it clearly has control over the citadel arms and yet Sovereign needed to get Saren onboard in ME1 to close the arms around it to protect it from the fleet outside the citadel. The whole thing doesn't add up, it seems as though this thing was added at the least minute without thinking through how it would fit in with the rest.
There are numerous problems with the end of this game which has already been pointed out by others. The ending of this game has really soured my experience and it's a shame because everything up until this point had been fantastic. After the seeing the endings I'm left with a feeling that the entire ME series was written by 20 different people who didn't really know where they wanted to go with it. I sincerely hope they will release some kind of DLC to provide a more fitting end to the series.
Apparently the game was rewritten at some point, the original ending had something to do with dark energy consuming everything, which would fit in with all the references to dark energy in ME2. The original ending seemed to be much more fulfilling than the current one. Instead we get this nonsensical plot where they have ruined the cthuluan feel of the reapers and simply made them seem idiotic and we get the catalyst as the AI controlling the entire thing. And I'd say this creates a rather severe plot hole. The plot of ME1 established that Sovereign attempted to begin the next cycle by signaling the keepers to activate the citadel mass relay, but this time they didn't do what they were made to do, so Sovereign had to improvise and recruit Saren to find another way for him to gain control of the citadel. However now we find out that the citadel is controlled by an AI core which also controls the reapers. Why didn't the catalyst just open the relay itself? It clearly has control of the citadel since it is able to open the citadel arms into its "flower" position. It said outright "The Citadel is a part of me", it also said it controls the reapers, it would have had to have been able to communicate with the reapers to control them. Why wouldn't it just have personally activated the citadel mass relay when Sovereign informed it that it could not? It might be possible that it didn't have control over that function, though that is unlikely, but it clearly has control over the citadel arms and yet Sovereign needed to get Saren onboard in ME1 to close the arms around it to protect it from the fleet outside the citadel. The whole thing doesn't add up, it seems as though this thing was added at the least minute without thinking through how it would fit in with the rest.
There are numerous problems with the end of this game which has already been pointed out by others. The ending of this game has really soured my experience and it's a shame because everything up until this point had been fantastic. After the seeing the endings I'm left with a feeling that the entire ME series was written by 20 different people who didn't really know where they wanted to go with it. I sincerely hope they will release some kind of DLC to provide a more fitting end to the series.
#59
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 11:24
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If they release DLC that has a more fitting ending, and it's not free, bioware can just go right to blank.
#60
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 11:25
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Jaleth wrote...
*spoilers regarding the end I guess*
I think this game is very well written. There seems to be a lot of negativity going around, which mostly involves the ending of the game. People are disappointed, but I doubt that has anything to do with 'bad writing.'
.
Honestly, after you said that, anything else you said really didn't matter. If one thinks those endings are not bad writing, then IMO, they really don't know what good writing is.
#61
Posté 07 mars 2012 - 11:49
Warikz
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The Reapers were explained (to me, anyway) perfectly, I just remembered what Legion said in ME2 that the Reapers are "billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies." They are the perfect fusion between organic and synthetic, an organic mind in a synthetic body, the pinnacle of evolution. "Each a nation..." each a harvested species, "Independent, free of all weakness" above the petty squabbles, flimsy bodies, mortality and emotions (which they see as a weakness, and we see as one of our greatest strengths) that come from being organic. In harvesting organic life in that way they free it of all organic life's weaknesses, whilst keeping what makes organic life special in their eyes (the mind) and in effect stop the need for a war between synthetic and organic life by fusing the two together. They really can be considered "salvation through destruction" in that regard.
You have to realize the Reapers (and their creator) seem to believe they are helping organics in the long term, and that a little (or a lot) of pain initially will be more than made up for by the immortality on offer. Whether you agree or not, thats how it is indicated that they see it (evidenced by what they tell us, constantly). In fact one could say the usual hitting of the Citadel first routine is an act to prevent unnecessary organic suffering by significantly shortening the war and making it hard for any resistance to form.
To me that is satisfying as it ties all the strands together (at least with regards to the Reapers). I think however a lot of the issues come from people actually having six years or so to come up with their own theories (if not spoken, then in their heads) about what the Reapers were, so when it was given out, they expected...more.
You have to realize the Reapers (and their creator) seem to believe they are helping organics in the long term, and that a little (or a lot) of pain initially will be more than made up for by the immortality on offer. Whether you agree or not, thats how it is indicated that they see it (evidenced by what they tell us, constantly). In fact one could say the usual hitting of the Citadel first routine is an act to prevent unnecessary organic suffering by significantly shortening the war and making it hard for any resistance to form.
To me that is satisfying as it ties all the strands together (at least with regards to the Reapers). I think however a lot of the issues come from people actually having six years or so to come up with their own theories (if not spoken, then in their heads) about what the Reapers were, so when it was given out, they expected...more.
Modifié par Warikz, 08 mars 2012 - 12:05 .
#62
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 12:20
magnuskn
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Aside from the fact that Shepard *can* survive, a major problem we have with the endings is that they are horribly written. To achieve the desired result of "Normandy crew on remote planet", the Normandy suddenly has to teleport to the Charon relay and your squadmates have to teleport to the Normandy. That is bad writing, plain and simple.
I can take BioWare nuking their own setting, it's their prerogative. But I find them writing two giant plotholes into all version of their ending, just so they can add that extra bittersweet component, to be really, really superflous.
That's not even touching the whole mess with Tali and Garrus being dextro-aminous and stuck on a planet where they cannot get things to eat, after the Normandys supplies run out. That's just a total kick to the daddybags of two of the most beloved characters of the franchise.
I can take BioWare nuking their own setting, it's their prerogative. But I find them writing two giant plotholes into all version of their ending, just so they can add that extra bittersweet component, to be really, really superflous.
That's not even touching the whole mess with Tali and Garrus being dextro-aminous and stuck on a planet where they cannot get things to eat, after the Normandys supplies run out. That's just a total kick to the daddybags of two of the most beloved characters of the franchise.
#63
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 12:53
Kanon777
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Vasparian wrote...
Jaleth wrote...
*spoilers regarding the end I guess*
I think this game is very well written. There seems to be a lot of negativity going around, which mostly involves the ending of the game. People are disappointed, but I doubt that has anything to do with 'bad writing.'
.
Honestly, after you said that, anything else you said really didn't matter. If one thinks those endings are not bad writing, then IMO, they really don't know what good writing is.
Its no better or worse than ME1 and 2 (filled with plot holes and contrivances)
#64
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:01
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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Atrocious84 wrote...
Way back in ME1 we had a conversation with Sovereign. He said something to the affect of "You cannot comprehend our existence". He was right, I can't comprehend it because it doesn't make sense! Some ancient civilization created synthetics that wipe out advanced organic civilizations to prevent organic civilizations from creating synthetics that wipe out organic life? I refuse to believe that anyone capable of that kind of circular logic would be intelligent enough to create the reapers, the citadel and the mass relays.
Apparently the game was rewritten at some point, the original ending had something to do with dark energy consuming everything, which would fit in with all the references to dark energy in ME2. The original ending seemed to be much more fulfilling than the current one. Instead we get this nonsensical plot where they have ruined the cthuluan feel of the reapers and simply made them seem idiotic and we get the catalyst as the AI controlling the entire thing. And I'd say this creates a rather severe plot hole. The plot of ME1 established that Sovereign attempted to begin the next cycle by signaling the keepers to activate the citadel mass relay, but this time they didn't do what they were made to do, so Sovereign had to improvise and recruit Saren to find another way for him to gain control of the citadel. However now we find out that the citadel is controlled by an AI core which also controls the reapers. Why didn't the catalyst just open the relay itself? It clearly has control of the citadel since it is able to open the citadel arms into its "flower" position. It said outright "The Citadel is a part of me", it also said it controls the reapers, it would have had to have been able to communicate with the reapers to control them. Why wouldn't it just have personally activated the citadel mass relay when Sovereign informed it that it could not? It might be possible that it didn't have control over that function, though that is unlikely, but it clearly has control over the citadel arms and yet Sovereign needed to get Saren onboard in ME1 to close the arms around it to protect it from the fleet outside the citadel. The whole thing doesn't add up, it seems as though this thing was added at the least minute without thinking through how it would fit in with the rest.
To me it actually makes some sense, as long as you view the Reapers as seperate from the Catalyst (and many made the mistake that by picking Control, you become a Reaper King. Um, no.).
We can figure that outside of this VERY significant occurance, the Catalyst lets the Reapers do what they need to do, for infinity... until ANOTHER SOLUTION is found. Shepard found that solution, and merged it with the Citadel. Now the Catalyst sees it has a tool to change the nature of technological singularity, better than its origin-race's likely desperate plan, and tells Shepard his options. Catalyst insists on a now-possible Synthesis (of which Reapers and Husks are a failed version of!), but Shepard can embrace Anderson's philosophy and Destroy the Reapers, or embrace Illusive Man's ideals of Control..ling the cycle, except with or without the intent of human dominion.
So the whole thing with Sovereign and the Keepers and Beacon and etc etc... that can be seen as just part of this massive experiment by the Catalyst/Guardian - try to find a solution, in this huge petri dish, of how organics can move into the future without 100% destroying itself.
In this way, it makes sense that the Reapers are only in ONE galaxy - it is an experimental galaxy, a 'Matrix', controlled by Reaper cycles, with each cycle building on slight knowledge from the last, until the Crucible is constructed (remember that the Crucible is not a solely Prothian design!).
To me, this part of the plot is actually pretty awesome, and shows that the galaxy can FINALLY expand properly, some day, in each ending, without interference. This is how Mass Effect will continue.
I only really hate the Normandy stuff, the 'bug' of your squad appearing there, and how the whole ending was actually presented. Oh and how it seems everyone (including characters we love) died on the Citadel ..off screen. What the hell.
#65
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:06
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Basically I think the Catalyst WANTS the Reapers to be challenged... but not in a way that they are defeated. It wants a solution to the 'larger problem' that it, and Reapers, think that organics cannot comprehend (aka tech singularity). Reapers losing assess to the Citadel means nothing to it, and just changes an element of the experiment. It won't interfere in something like that. Only Shepard provoked its interest. (TIM never would have, as he was already indoctrinated, and if only Anderson went alone, he likely would have died too)
#66
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:13
Jjacobclark
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Wildhide wrote...
I'm not a huge headcannon fan when there's no reason for it. The end of a trilogy tends to have more much better closure and finality to the story, not leaving it all up to... "Well did they die, did anyone have anything decent happen to them?"
Also the vague suggestion after the credits of "It was just a story/dream" is one of the worst tropes any IP can pull. Honestly the whole ending makes me picture Bioware's logo with a massive trollface on it.
could you elaborate on what you think could indicate the whole story being a dream I am curious
#67
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:15
SaltyWaffles-PD
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I wasn't disappointed by the "grimness" of the endings, I was disappointed by the utter failure of the endings to relate to everything else in the games and to give any closure or meaning to anything you ever did in the series prior to that decision.
#68
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:16
Jjacobclark
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SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...
I wasn't disappointed by the "grimness" of the endings, I was disappointed by the utter failure of the endings to relate to everything else in the games and to give any closure or meaning to anything you ever did in the series prior to that decision.
#69
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:22
ibage
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As a writer myself, deus ex is NOT a good way to conclude such a massive story. That's exactly what the ending was. A dim witted solution the pulled out of no where. I expected Shepard to die. I would have been FINE with that but I spent a long time getting attached to characters and now the galaxy is basically stuck in the stone age. This was not good writing and I expected better from Bioware. Hell, Dragon Age 2 had a better ending than this.
I loved ME3 but the ending made no sense and was a crappy way to wrap things up. The Dark Energy ending would have been better. But I'm going to remain hopeful here. It would appear in the scene after the credits that this was a story and leaves room to be fixed. I'm hoping some of the good writers can find a better way to conclude this. Having a magical machine god just doesn't cut it. Hell, I'm starting to see the appeal of fanfics now...
I loved ME3 but the ending made no sense and was a crappy way to wrap things up. The Dark Energy ending would have been better. But I'm going to remain hopeful here. It would appear in the scene after the credits that this was a story and leaves room to be fixed. I'm hoping some of the good writers can find a better way to conclude this. Having a magical machine god just doesn't cut it. Hell, I'm starting to see the appeal of fanfics now...
#70
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:22
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SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...
I wasn't disappointed by the "grimness" of the endings, I was disappointed by the utter failure of the endings to relate to everything else in the games and to give any closure or meaning to anything you ever did in the series prior to that decision.
I think its more they used the decisions to effect how successful the final battle will be, and .... I'm hopeful the ending decision can effect a Mass Effect 4. I can go with that, if they take that route.
#71
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 03:40
Wazooty
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Warikz wrote...
The Reapers were explained (to me, anyway) perfectly, I just remembered what Legion said in ME2 that the Reapers are "billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies." They are the perfect fusion between organic and synthetic, an organic mind in a synthetic body, the pinnacle of evolution. "Each a nation..." each a harvested species, "Independent, free of all weakness" above the petty squabbles, flimsy bodies, mortality and emotions (which they see as a weakness, and we see as one of our greatest strengths) that come from being organic. In harvesting organic life in that way they free it of all organic life's weaknesses, whilst keeping what makes organic life special in their eyes (the mind) and in effect stop the need for a war between synthetic and organic life by fusing the two together. They really can be considered "salvation through destruction" in that regard.
You have to realize the Reapers (and their creator) seem to believe they are helping organics in the long term, and that a little (or a lot) of pain initially will be more than made up for by the immortality on offer. Whether you agree or not, thats how it is indicated that they see it (evidenced by what they tell us, constantly). In fact one could say the usual hitting of the Citadel first routine is an act to prevent unnecessary organic suffering by significantly shortening the war and making it hard for any resistance to form.
To me that is satisfying as it ties all the strands together (at least with regards to the Reapers). I think however a lot of the issues come from people actually having six years or so to come up with their own theories (if not spoken, then in their heads) about what the Reapers were, so when it was given out, they expected...more.
It's like the flood: They view absorbing everything into one giant mind, free of war and conflict as a good thing for the galaxy. Yet while it does unify the galaxy with total knowledge, it also gets rid of all the beautiful and good things about life: free will, love, etc.
#72
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 04:13
HaiknEdge
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Personally, I think the writing was fine for the most part (aside from really stupid railroading) up until Shep reached got inside the Citadel. Then, it just got really silly, really fast. Aside from the plot holes that have been already mentioned, was anybody besides me absolutely turned off by the post-credit sequence?
It was all a story? Really? After following a franchise for five years, I get, "It was all a story"? Seriously? That feels like a huge "F- you" from the writers, like my time and money was nothing, and this was really all just a dream.
Sure, the stargazer said, "some of the details might have been lost", but considering the age of the child being told the story, it could all have just been a fabrication by the Stargazer anyways. I mean, grandparents tell their kids tall tales all the time. Sure, they're definitely not on Earth, but it could just as easily been aliens telling the story.
Look, I get that some people want happy endings, some people want sad endings, some people even liked the tone of the endings... but to have five years of gameplay invalidated by a post-credits sequence? That's what I'm the most angry about.
It was all a story? Really? After following a franchise for five years, I get, "It was all a story"? Seriously? That feels like a huge "F- you" from the writers, like my time and money was nothing, and this was really all just a dream.
Sure, the stargazer said, "some of the details might have been lost", but considering the age of the child being told the story, it could all have just been a fabrication by the Stargazer anyways. I mean, grandparents tell their kids tall tales all the time. Sure, they're definitely not on Earth, but it could just as easily been aliens telling the story.
Look, I get that some people want happy endings, some people want sad endings, some people even liked the tone of the endings... but to have five years of gameplay invalidated by a post-credits sequence? That's what I'm the most angry about.
#73
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 04:18
Wazooty
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- Members
- 59 messages
HaiknEdge wrote...
Personally, I think the writing was fine for the most part (aside from really stupid railroading) up until Shep reached got inside the Citadel. Then, it just got really silly, really fast. Aside from the plot holes that have been already mentioned, was anybody besides me absolutely turned off by the post-credit sequence?
It was all a story? Really? After following a franchise for five years, I get, "It was all a story"? Seriously? That feels like a huge "F- you" from the writers, like my time and money was nothing, and this was really all just a dream.
Sure, the stargazer said, "some of the details might have been lost", but considering the age of the child being told the story, it could all have just been a fabrication by the Stargazer anyways. I mean, grandparents tell their kids tall tales all the time. Sure, they're definitely not on Earth, but it could just as easily been aliens telling the story.
Look, I get that some people want happy endings, some people want sad endings, some people even liked the tone of the endings... but to have five years of gameplay invalidated by a post-credits sequence? That's what I'm the most angry about.
It either could have been a story, or it was implying the the crew of the normandy went on to restart civilization on that planet...and who knows how many hundred of years later their offspring are still stuck on that planet.
Which is still a depressing and unfulfilling ending but yeah...
#74
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 04:34
panamakira
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KitePolaris wrote...
The minority is usually the most vocal. :3
In this instance I would have to disagree though. Look what happened to DA2. I like that game and I find myself to be in the minority both here and other places.
I say wait a week more until people finish the game and I just KNOW that most players will be dissatisfied with the diservice Bioware did with the endings.
Heck, I like the game but those endings man. They we pretty bad. They should've varied them more. There was absolutely no variation to the fate of the galaxy.
#75
Posté 08 mars 2012 - 04:36
Frakking.Toaster
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- Members
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panamakira wrote...
KitePolaris wrote...
The minority is usually the most vocal. :3
In this instance I would have to disagree though. Look what happened to DA2. I like that game and I find myself to be in the minority both here and other places.
I say wait a week more until people finish the game and I just KNOW that most players will be dissatisfied with the diservice Bioware did with the endings.
Heck, I like the game but those endings man. They we pretty bad. They should've varied them more. There was absolutely no variation to the fate of the galaxy.
100000000% this.
It's an ending that after it had been spoiled for me ( an accident due to a friends VERY big mouth) - i found my self having a hard time giving a DAMN about my decisions. *spoilers Incomming*
For example, I had Grunt live, and he was loyal in ME2. When it came down to him or the Racchni, I sincerly sat there for a moment and wondered..."What does this matter?" it took - ALL - the gravity from the situation due to the unsatisfactory endings. I don't expect happyness abound, Shep can die- I am ok with this. Sometimes a Hero /Martyr needs to die, -but- The manner in which the galaxy is treated , and especially the crew of the normandy and the "magical transporting team mates"..it's just...killed the gravity of choices.
This is why I simply believe the endings to be poorly chosen. Not nessicarily poor writing, but there needed to be a few additional endings as well .
Modifié par The.Pixie.Devil, 08 mars 2012 - 04:44 .
