26 réponses à ce sujet

[SyyRaaaN]

I was one of those who dodged the spoilers. So the ending came as a shock to me. All i had heard was that the endings were "sad" and "unhappy". These interpretations of the endings are ofcourse correct, however that isn't the reason why they are bad endings. There are several "unhappy" endings that could have been chosen that probably would have been considered as good ones. For instance, an end where you were forced to sacrifice the entire Quarian flottila, or where the krogans went extinct etc, would have been very sad. Very unhappy endings and would probably have been perfectly fine, maybe even forcing to watch your LI die would have been sad, but good. The funny part is that even an ending that would have let the reapers succeed with their plans would have been better than this. Why you might ask? Let me tell you. You have to excuse my poor English, my english writing sucks.

Lack of correct buildup

First of all we must acknowledge the difference between ME1 and ME2 in this regard. ME1 started as a slow Sci-fi story where the main plot was unveiling the mystery behind the Prothean exctinction while stopping Saren with his dubios plans. We spent time searching dead worlds after clues, used the codex to learn about the different civilizations, etc. In this regard, ME1 was a slow, RPG which built up towards two seperate climaxes; one when we found out what happened to the Protheans through the VI Vigil, and one where defeated Saren and Sovereign. Excellent. The endings we were presented with here, in ME3, would actually have been a good ending to that story arc if this path was continued in ME2. If ME2:s main story would have been about continued unveiling of the mystery behind the Reapers then we would have had a buildup toward these endings. Maybe if we searched after the Reapers origins, finding Prothean clues by using the cipher, finding out the clues behind the Citadel and the Mass Relays, blabllbaba etc. (There are different ways to do this). If the story was a slow one and deep one about the mysteries of the galaxies and the stories behind them, then this ending would have worked.

But ME2 didn't actually do this. In two or three scentences we learned that the Collectors were Protheans. Not as a part of a story of its own mystery but rather as a "coincidence". Instead the story was much more action oriented. Shepard building up his team of true gangstas to kick the collectors asses. ME2 moved away from the slow pace of the first game, unveiling a mystery, and turned into a an action story-arc where we prepared for the suicide mission. We were constantly listening to Harbingers voice and in many aspects we were moving away from the story of the structures to a story of the actors. Instead of Reapers, Quarians, The Alliance - it became a personal story of Tali, Legion, TIM and even the Reapers became to be represented by one, Harbinger.  The structure was only a setting. We started to care about the races through the actors and individuals presented for us. Not through the structure it self so to speak.

The ending in Mass Effect 3 doesn't work in that context as it deals solely with the greater structure of the galaxy; a story path which was deliberately ditched in the second game in favor of a race centric and a character centric one. The story in ME3 was about rallying the support of the different races through the characters we learned to know in ME1 and ME2. It was the continue of the story of ME2. ME3 was NOT about unveiling the mystery of the Citadel, and the relays. It was NOT a story about the structure of the galaxy. It was NOT anyhing that the ending presented to us. Thats also whats so wierd with the crucible arc, all of this is so out of context in this action oriented game.

So what did we get? 

So we got the ending to a mystery we never actually invested much time in. But we lost all the stories we got connected to. In this ending we are left with several questions about the characters and races we learned to love. What happened to the Quarians after this? Did the Krogans make it? Did the Salarains and the Turians survive? Also we are left with a big fat question mark about the charachters. Tali, Liara etc... did they make it?

In a story that only dealt with the greater structure of the galaxy, as the Citadel/Relays/Reapers/Cycles the individual wouldn't have mattered the slightest. But in our ME stories, the actors were everything. And honestly, in my opinion we know to little about the galactic structures to even care about them. Thats why the ending sucks. Not because its sad, or unhappy. A sad ending within the context and the path ME series took, would have been good enough. But this is not.

How to fix this? 

Can't be fixed because it would demand a rewrite or remake of the cruicible story. Therefor my Mass Effect ended with Arrival - The reapers succeded in the harvest, we all died in vain; and we shared the fate of the Protheans; while the other more advanced races became Reapers. The next cycle the Yahg found the citadel first. .

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 07 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[bpzrn]

In the words of Jack -- "Yep"

[stylepoints]

I agree with you about the whole change of pace from 1 to 2. I don't agree with you totally on why the endings are "bad."

I think the endings would be much better received if the second game never happened. If the second game were much more like the first, it would have set a much better foundation for the whole "mystery" aspect.

When you look at it, Mass Effect 2 should have been left out altogether and replaced with a game that went more in depth into the protheans/reapers. ME2 completely removed us from the prothean story, and obfuscated our vision of the reapers' intentions and nature. It makes the ending of ME3 pretty unpredicable.

What really even happened in ME2? We went and destroyed the collector base, a new enemy to the franchise that never really felt big and important like the reapers, and certainly didn't really fit in well with what we understood previously about the reapers. Nothing really important happened, we made a bunch of friends with bit-players for ME3.

I think ME2 completely shifted the focus of the franchise away from what was really important in terms of story, and ME3 shifted back toward ME1, making the whole thing feel disjointed. In my opinion, ME2 should have been much more in depth on the exploration/delving into the protheans (or even the cycles before the protheans) to set the stage for the final conflict, where the Reapers and the "Galactic Cycle" would have been much more fleshed out. This would have put our attention heavily on what the reapers' purpose is, and what the effects of stopping them would be. The endings could have made perfect sense, and people could have been ready for them.

I'm not saying ME2 was a bad game, I loved it. I'm saying it disjointed the series, and ME3 couldn't quite recover because of it.

Modifié par stylepoints, 07 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[GeneraI Ripper]

 This is exactly why the ending was terrible.  This is the post I came on here to write. 

I am so incredibly dissapointed with this ending.  It has completely ruined the series for me.  I will probably never play ME1, 2 or 3 again.  After DA2 and now this?  I'm done with you bioware.  Thanks for making a great 100+ hours of gameplay and then ruining it all with a crappy ending.

[J5550123]

The longer the game is out, the more people talk about how disappointed they are with the ending.

Modifié par J5550123, 07 mars 2012 - 09:34 .

[SyyRaaaN]

stylepoints wrote...

I agree with you about the whole change of pace from 1 to 2. I don't agree with you totally on why the endings are "bad."

I think the endings would be much better received if the second game never happened. If the second game were much more like the first, it would have set a much better foundation for the whole "mystery" aspect.

When you look at it, Mass Effect 2 should have been left out altogether and replaced with a game that went more in depth into the protheans/reapers. ME2 completely removed us from the prothean story, and obfuscated our vision of the reapers' intentions and nature. It makes the ending of ME3 pretty unpredicable.

What really even happened in ME2? We went and destroyed the collector base, a new enemy to the franchise that never really felt big and important like the reapers, and certainly didn't really fit in well with what we understood previously about the reapers. Nothing really important happened, we made a bunch of friends with bit-players for ME3.

I think ME2 completely shifted the focus of the franchise away from what was really important in terms of story, and ME3 shifted back toward ME1, making the whole thing feel disjointed. In my opinion, ME2 should have been much more in depth on the exploration/delving into the protheans (or even the cycles before the protheans) to set the stage for the final conflict, where the Reapers and the "Galactic Cycle" would have been much more fleshed out. This would have put our attention heavily on what the reapers' purpose is, and what the effects of stopping them would be. The endings could have made perfect sense, and people could have been ready for them.

I'm not saying ME2 was a bad game, I loved it. I'm saying it disjointed the series, and ME3 couldn't quite recover because of it.

Yeah, i agree with you partly. This is very similar to my point. But the thing with the ending they cohse, it would have been good if they developed the series in that way. The problem is that they didn't, and therefor its impossible to end it like that. ME3, is a mix between the first and the second, and that is why the story gets so... wierd and in my opinion bad for the series. The problem with ME3 though is that the ending does not reflect the series turn including the last game. Also, another problem is that ME3 does not fully transition back to the arc that was established in the first. It only does so in some ascpets, and therefor the story fails totally.

This ending could have worked in slow sci-fi like Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica or something. But not in this franchise when they decided for the action take in ME2/3.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 07 mars 2012 - 10:53 .

[mrpoultry]

Bioware.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiwtXHPwGPE Hire this man!

[mastirkal]

Ending was a blunder to say the least, it was meant to be bitter sweet and I would have loved it if they didn't destroy the damn relays... then some hope of what would could happen to be there, now we know that everyone is isolated, colonies are more then likely going to epand or die out without support, shepard is dead and your crew you came to love is stuck on a damned jungle world and all the aliens on board are going to die without mating etc. :I

It was a blunder, maybe~ they will make a better one in a DLC? because it frankly ruined my wanting to replay with any other character. rather not see my shepard die horribly and his love interest and all of the other races I came to care about stranded in their own galaxies. :/

[darthoptimus003]

thank god a place i cant rant and not be jugded on the way i feel
1st a deity that can control the reapers and because it thinks that it has the right to decide what is best for the races involed that it can harvest and kill people whenever it wants wtf that made no since what-so-ever we harvest advance cultures to end choas with synthetics cause they will kill people isnt that what the reapers are doing and we didnt even get the chance to show that we can change the cycle and talk that thing into stopping the reapers and givig this cycle a chance is pure bs
2nd all the work i did to max out the war assests to fight the reaper for what answer absolutly nothing it dosnt effect how the story ends it still the same my shep dies and all of the relays are destroyed wtf
3rd the only way my shep lives is that i have to play multiplayer just to build up war assests for the story mode that is just plain retared i didnt spend $100 on the ce for multiplayer to effect my story line that had to be the biggest thing that pissed me off "oh your shep can live it you play mutltiplayer enough but be careful not to miss a day or ur galatic readiness will drop"
4th the way it ended what was the point of LIs if you couldnt be with them at the end wtf
i think that this entire game needs to be recalled and pulled and remade cause there wasnt no choice at all in the way it ended and i can say that im done with bw and mass effect untill this changes and i know im not the only one who thinks so
all that time wasted on these 3 games and for what to be screwed like that

[Sif3r]

I honestly don't understand what people aren't seeing here...The ENTIRE Franchise has been about Artificial Life destroying organic life in an endless cycle. We knew about that in the first game. The synthesis ending is the culmination to the problem...imparting the superiority of artificial with all the benefits of being organic (individuality, emotions etc). All forms of life was re-written, not just "organics/humanoids". Even the plants, the snow...everything. There would be no future war of organics vs synthetics, because...well, creating synthetic only life would be pointless when you already have any benefits they can provide. But this is coming from someone who really enjoyed the ending of the journey of my character all the way from the 1st.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

I'd say there are too many of these "the ending is awful" threads, expect it was so bad that it's more like there can never be enough.

[P_sutherland]

How to fix this?

Tell Admiral Hackkett to destroy the crucible/citidel bla bla bla... Reapers lose their boss computer... thing... Harbinger becomes the boss, you get a pick up by joker and co... bla bla bla citidel explodes, then depending on your fleet level assets thing (ems?) you either win or lose

[SyyRaaaN]

Sif3r wrote...

I honestly don't understand what people aren't seeing here...The ENTIRE Franchise has been about Artificial Life destroying organic life in an endless cycle. We knew about that in the first game. The synthesis ending is the culmination to the problem...imparting the superiority of artificial with all the benefits of being organic (individuality, emotions etc). All forms of life was re-written, not just "organics/humanoids". Even the plants, the snow...everything. There would be no future war of organics vs synthetics, because...well, creating synthetic only life would be pointless when you already have any benefits they can provide. But this is coming from someone who really enjoyed the ending of the journey of my character all the way from the 1st.

This is my point exactly, except that in my opinion you have gotten it wrong =). IF the games were about what you describe then the endng would have been fine. The problem is that ME2 and partly ME3 took the game in another direction. The ME2 (mainly) and ME3 (partly) story isn't directed towards this plot about synthetics vs organics, or the "mystery" about the relays/citadel. If ME2 was about what you describe, then the ending would have been natural and fine - and explained by the story. Now its just so detatched.

Also, what you describe needs a different sci-fi setting. Mr Plikett (Nice guy who made an awesome Star Wars review ) actually does an interesting categorization of Sci-Fi in his Star Trek (2009) review. He does a dichotomy in the Sci-Fi genre. One part is "boring" sci-fi (. Which is defined by its slow pace, deep story, often techo babble, lore etc. All this is the center of the story.   The other side of the dichotomy is Action Sci-Fi (he calls it less boring) where the goal is basically to make a cool story or whatever. Its kinda mindless about lore etc. Both these genres are good according to Plinkett. I agree with this, very much. Sci Fi becomes really bad first when you mix the two genres into a middle path. This is what Mass Effect has done. I love Sci-Fi; and i can say that i liked both ME1 and ME2 to the  same extent just because they both twere true to their nature. Boring - ME1 and Action - ME2. ME3 doesn't work.

The reason why the combination of these two (bore, action) is devastating is because the time isn't taken to explain the fundamental things. I mean, they found some Prothean drawings for the Crucible? TELL ME MORE PLZ. It has been built over generations of races? TELL ME MORE PLZ. MUCH MORE. The old races that dissaperad? TELL ME MORE PLZ. The story is about synthetics vs organics? TELL ME MORE PLZ! The catalyst is a part of the citadel? TELL ME MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE PLZ.

Thats the problem. All of these questions above are so intresting. I wanted to know so much more about it. But... just to tell these stories in a good way we need much more time. Which isn't given. Because its "boring" sci-fi which doesn't sell to the population this game is targeted to. Because if all this is going to be told, then the action parts has to go. But if we want the action (which the broader consumer group probably demands); then much of these story parts has to go. Its as  simple as that. Thats why some Sci-Fi is good, and some sucks. This is  now specially true for Mass Effect. Thats why you stay away from such story arcs while doing an action Sci-Fi that is marketed to a broader consumer group. They should just have let us kick Harbingers ass out of the galaxy with a big bang.


TL:DR

ME1 story could be considered in the boring sci fi genre; ME2 moved away to the action side to the full excent. ME3 kinda combines this two into a fisco ending. If the entire series was a "boring" scifi; it would have been good with this ending. But it wasn't. It went from "boring" to action and finally ened in a mix of bore and action; and thats why the ending fails.


And yeah, I'm a Sci-Fi fan.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 08 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[Michotic]

 I don't like the ending because I feel it invalidated everything I've done up to that point. We've been told how important our choices are. These choices shape the galaxy. Players have spent a LOT of time over the course of these games creating the setting they want. Even in the third game, the focus is on building a galactic force to finally kill the Reapers.

Then, at the end, none of that matters. No matter what you do, everything always boils down to the same choices. After all these games spent investing in the story, in the characters, right at the end, the game fails.

I can only hope there WILL be DLC that corrects all this. Even this is upsetting though. If this is the case, I have to pay MORE money?! Or, if this is the absolute end...terrible. Way to kill the entire series.

[DarkKnightCuron]

So much for a "Mass Effect MMO" with an endings like that...

But yeah. Totally support OP.

[Militarized]

Srsly, hire this dude.

[Parrk]

I agree with the OP. What's more, I wouldn't have enjoyed 1 or 2 as much and would likely have had very little invested in this game had it not been so people-centric previously.

The ME series was something I enjoyed immensely. My friends and I would make inside jokes about lines from the first two, and often speculated about how it would end during poker games and such.

The last 5 minutes of ME3 invalidated all of that.

Imagine you are in bed with someone you find incredibly attractive and unbelievably fun and unending caring. Certainly there are issues. Maybe you are allergic to her cat, or she hogs the sheets which leads the two of you to argue frequently over thermostat settings. The relationship is not perfect, but it is damned good, until one night they gets out of bed, defecate on the rug while cackling maniacally then proceeds to chase you around with a cleaver mumbling something about fabric softener.

Do you ever return to that place again?

Such is the ending of ME3, a brown stain on the floor and me running down the street in my boxers, sick with grief over what has been lost.

Modifié par Parrk, 08 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[Rhayth]

One of my bigger beefs were they had so many undertones of failure in this game...people not making it...even Shepard having to die. I was prepared for this fact, but then I meet Javik. Who tells me this.

"We were defeated because we were predictable. We could not change our actions thus costing us many lives over time."

And i'm thinking...ok maybe that is the key. The fact that these organics are all so different that maybe if I acquire every possible species of intelligence then I walk away from this.

I had f'n everything, Geth, Quarians, Elcor, Biotics, Asari, Turians, Krogan (restored), Salarians, Rachni, Aria Mercenaries, Ex-Cerberus, Hanar, Drell, etc etc...I locked in every possible group possible. If I could have gotten Collectors I would have got them also. So many undertones, and a dlc character telling me the problem of the past was predictability...knowing that you had Rome-esque imperials controlling everything instead of a collection of races doing what they do best.

Even the ending with dead Reapers and a living Shepard offered me no answers. I don't care. Why did Normandy hit a Mass Relay in the midst of battle, why didn't I think of Tali instead of Liara, why did team members I brought with me into combat get picked up by Normandy to make this jump away from the battle, why why why why...WHY?!?!

I was prepared for Shep dieing or Tali dieing...Why could I not spare the Relays at the cost of my life? Sure if you destroy Reapers you lose Relay, but if you sacrifice yourself for control the universe remains intact and we leave. Ultimately any choice left you with these variables.

Shepard lives or Shepard dies (depending on choice and EMS rating)

But no matter what you lose the Relays, the only way for Shep to live is at the cost of the Reapers, Geth, and EDI (if you don't believe me notice how when they emerge from Normandy she isn't there, but if you did the other two options she is) The only variable is finding my Shep under a heap of rubble. So what all alien races stayed on Earth and they began building farms? Krogan now cured of the Genophage go on a rampage and descimate the inhabitants of Earth? I'm hoping DLC can answer these questions...but so many overlooked things in a game that for 98% has been very well thought out and details paid attention to all of a sudden a flurry of inconsistencies. This has nothing to do with Shep holding Tali's hand as the sun rises over the battered remains of London sighing in relief of victory. This is about inconsistencies and lack of options. Your options are simple 2 options Shep dies Repears live 1 option Shep lives Reapers/Geth/EDI die... Those are the AT BEST options.

[Elishiaila]

DarkKnightCuron wrote...

So much for a "Mass Effect MMO" with an endings like that...

But yeah. Totally support OP.

I don't agree so much with the OP, as I see the problems with the endings are deeper. Bioware knows well a good RPG is about meaningfull choices and their influence over the story. What you have to do to win is secoundary. This is why I didn't care when they started to call DA II bad because of different mechanics. We want to see our options, their consequences and the story. 

And even a surprising ending can be good. Imho in DA II learning how the events changed the world, how the blown up chantry led to rebellions everywhere, how the chantry lost much ground was surprising. It wasn't connected to most quests. Yet, it was easy to feel the ending as natural.

It is easy to spot that we don't like the ending. It is easy to see how great majority of players are unhappy with it. It is easy to understand something is wrong, and we can see how ME2 and ME3 focused on other areas of the universe. But in the end, that wouldn't change much. As we all know it is about a world, about the events, etc. and it would actually makes sense. The contrast is there, and we can blame things on it, but I wouldn't say it is the worst problem.

In Mass Effect 3 the endings ignore how would we choose, what options would we have in the game. We can't even try to arrange for another outcome because we see the ending forced on us. We would do many things differently, yet we can't even try to follow our plans. We don't hear "no" as an answer for our proposal, because we can't even ask a question. And at this point we die, because Bioware didn't think about what would we do.

The endings presented there are possible, and in a movie they would be ok, we would wonder at strange ending but would go back. These endings are on the table. But come on the AI behind all the reapers is too stupid to notice that cooperation between men and manchine is possible? Too stupid to see the Geth fleet, to see EDI, to see how we united everyone? 

In the past we seen Protheans as protagonists and Reapers as antagonists, what happend in Mass Effect 3? Even if we thought Protheans cooperated with other races well, we seen oppression, infighting, and we seen how they were the antagonists of that era. And how Reapers in essence gave chance to young civilizations then. Our Prothean party member were surprised to see this change. We seen how cooperation, heroism, etc. can make a change.

And the super intelligent, super advanced AI doesn't notice this. And we can't even tell him, if the cycle was insufficient (as we have reached him), maybe he should look why it was insufficient. Because cooperation, uniting men and machine, even worst enemies is possible for these people. Their hopes, goal, etc. are important. And if they came to give the world a chance, it is time to leave and only return if cooperation isn't an option. We don't want to control, change, destroy anyone. You can be part of the picture. You can decide to supervise this unity. Or just leave and return when needed. Right now, in this cycle we shown you don't need to finish these civilizations now. And that option (if Reapers would wait) would be good for later sequels.

With this option, both the slow paced and the action paced scenes would fit in the picture, so the changes in series wouldn't be important. Even the current options would be ok. As we would have a good option that would make sense. The issue is: we don't have to. And not because the world would say it is impossible. But because Bioware haven't thought about that option.

In my topic I shown how would I actually end the story, and what I shown there is DLC material as it expands on original story with new missions, new places to fight in, and as you see they can lead to a setting for a Mass Effect MMO. And if you think about it: If such endings are better for DLC, and we can see other potential endings (for DLC) we would see new options  

So I disagree on how unfixable it is. As you see I could see DLCs fixing it.

And I think I can even add another twist to it. Why have the Resistance survived? Because the Reapers wanted to make sure that happens. They could be much faster in destroying worlds, they know nukes, etc. But they don't do much. Why? Because the purpose of the cycle is to test if we can unite or if we have to be removed. That is why we have a choice. And that is why extending the cycle or "peace with reapers" could be better options then the current endings.

[The_Canadian_Dragon]

I didn't do the multiplayer option first time through, I was eager to get to the end of the game because I'd anticipated this game so much. I'll play through again and do the multiplayer this time but I can't help but feel a sense of disappointment. I played both endings and Shepard died, but if she somehow manages to live, chances are she will never see Garrus (LI) again. Even with a ship, there would be no way for her to know where the Normandy went and without the Mass Relays it would take decades or even centuries to search the rest of the galaxy for him.

Seriously, Bioware? WTH?!

[mupp3tz]

It's funny because I usually get annoyed when I get a "cheesy" or "cliched" ending from video games or movies... but, in this case, I find myself REALLY wanting that. I want an ending where Shepard and his remaining squad mates (real talk: SOME of them have to die) rebuilding the galaxy fresh. I also want different galactic species to survive the conflict, albeit a little decimated. Aaand... give me at least a little LI happiness -- by that, I don't mean a sex scene, but some sort of heart warming dialogue or something. I'll even take a silhouette staring at the ruined galaxy or something. It's cheesy. It's expected. But I would prefer it over what I have now.

[The_Canadian_Dragon]

I know what you mean.

I suppose they could rebuild the mass relays - the bartender (Atheyta? I probably spelled that wrong though...) from Illium in ME2 was talking about that. But this is just depressing.

Well, lets hope there really will be some DLC that will give a happier ending. Maybe Shepard and Garrus with an adopted krogan...

[SyyRaaaN]

Elishiaila wrote...

DarkKnightCuron wrote...

So much for a "Mass Effect MMO" with an endings like that...

But yeah. Totally support OP.

I don't agree so much with the OP, as I see the problems with the endings are deeper. Bioware knows well a good RPG is about meaningfull choices and their influence over the story. What you have to do to win is secoundary. This is why I didn't care when they started to call DA II bad because of different mechanics. We want to see our options, their consequences and the story. 

And even a surprising ending can be good. Imho in DA II learning how the events changed the world, how the blown up chantry led to rebellions everywhere, how the chantry lost much ground was surprising. It wasn't connected to most quests. Yet, it was easy to feel the ending as natural.

It is easy to spot that we don't like the ending. It is easy to see how great majority of players are unhappy with it. It is easy to understand something is wrong, and we can see how ME2 and ME3 focused on other areas of the universe. But in the end, that wouldn't change much. As we all know it is about a world, about the events, etc. and it would actually makes sense. The contrast is there, and we can blame things on it, but I wouldn't say it is the worst problem.

In Mass Effect 3 the endings ignore how would we choose, what options would we have in the game. We can't even try to arrange for another outcome because we see the ending forced on us. We would do many things differently, yet we can't even try to follow our plans. We don't hear "no" as an answer for our proposal, because we can't even ask a question. And at this point we die, because Bioware didn't think about what would we do.

The endings presented there are possible, and in a movie they would be ok, we would wonder at strange ending but would go back. These endings are on the table. But come on the AI behind all the reapers is too stupid to notice that cooperation between men and manchine is possible? Too stupid to see the Geth fleet, to see EDI, to see how we united everyone? 

In the past we seen Protheans as protagonists and Reapers as antagonists, what happend in Mass Effect 3? Even if we thought Protheans cooperated with other races well, we seen oppression, infighting, and we seen how they were the antagonists of that era. And how Reapers in essence gave chance to young civilizations then. Our Prothean party member were surprised to see this change. We seen how cooperation, heroism, etc. can make a change.

And the super intelligent, super advanced AI doesn't notice this. And we can't even tell him, if the cycle was insufficient (as we have reached him), maybe he should look why it was insufficient. Because cooperation, uniting men and machine, even worst enemies is possible for these people. Their hopes, goal, etc. are important. And if they came to give the world a chance, it is time to leave and only return if cooperation isn't an option. We don't want to control, change, destroy anyone. You can be part of the picture. You can decide to supervise this unity. Or just leave and return when needed. Right now, in this cycle we shown you don't need to finish these civilizations now. And that option (if Reapers would wait) would be good for later sequels.

With this option, both the slow paced and the action paced scenes would fit in the picture, so the changes in series wouldn't be important. Even the current options would be ok. As we would have a good option that would make sense. The issue is: we don't have to. And not because the world would say it is impossible. But because Bioware haven't thought about that option.

In my topic I shown how would I actually end the story, and what I shown there is DLC material as it expands on original story with new missions, new places to fight in, and as you see they can lead to a setting for a Mass Effect MMO. And if you think about it: If such endings are better for DLC, and we can see other potential endings (for DLC) we would see new options  

So I disagree on how unfixable it is. As you see I could see DLCs fixing it.

And I think I can even add another twist to it. Why have the Resistance survived? Because the Reapers wanted to make sure that happens. They could be much faster in destroying worlds, they know nukes, etc. But they don't do much. Why? Because the purpose of the cycle is to test if we can unite or if we have to be removed. That is why we have a choice. And that is why extending the cycle or "peace with reapers" could be better options then the current endings.

Hmfs. You raise another problem with the ending than I do. Yes, out of a RPG perspective its disastrious that the ending doesn't reflect your previous actions. Thats really unsatisfying for the series. But then again, we had several other endings in the game that did reflect choise, Mordin, Wrex, Geth, Quarians etc. But how we dealt with the reapers didn't reflect our choises and that created rage. Thats one reason the ending is bad, im just pointing out another one.

As I see it the entire crucible/catalyst story is broken right now and it cannot be fixed. Sure the ending of the game perhaps can be salvaged in numerous different ways; making our choises matter etc. But that doesn't change the fact that we never will understand the secret behind the cruicible, the secrets behind the AI. These storylines are interesting but they cannot be explained within the action-setting of ME2 and ME3. It's so hard to pull it off.

I cant imagine a solution to this ending they chose. I mean, the only way for it to make the slightest sense would to be to release a bigger expansion. This is unrealistic, will never happen and would still suck;  But in the expansion pack for the game we would deeply explore the structures of the galaxy/citadel/reapers/cataclyst/older races/how the crucible schematics were passed on from generations to generation/about reapers creators... blablaba.

An expansion where all these "boring" sci-fi elements are explored in an RPG setting. But this sounds more like a Mass Effect 4. And still, this would still make the ending very unsatisfying for the very reasons you point out. Our choises wouldn't matter in such a story arc about those structures. I would still say that this ending is directly conflicting with what we became attatched too. Which means, yes, the context for this ending wrong. This isn't the way to end this series. This ending simply does not work with the path ME2 and ME3 took. Simple as that.

Sure, if they make a nice DLC where i can go Rambo Shepard vs Harbinger, and they give me some alternative explanation why the Reapers are doing this (ive seen some good ones around the forums, includes a nice twist, maybe good reapers, with interesting motives blabla) and turning the Crucible to something else. While giving me a story arc how this tech was passed on (and how it was built so fast!?!?!, or maybe discovered?!?!). Along with some info about the older races that went extinct... Hm, sure, i could live with that. For sure.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 08 mars 2012 - 07:53 .

[Dragon555555]

While it would be nice to see a what happens next with all the characters I didn't mind the ending since each of the options had consequences and were solutions devised by Guardian so obviously weren't made just to please Shepard.

[GeneraI Ripper]

Rhayth wrote...

the only way for Shep to live is at the cost of the Reapers, Geth, and EDI (if you don't believe me notice how when they emerge from Normandy she isn't there, but if you did the other two options she is)

Not to derail too much, and I see this as another aspect of how the ending fell kind of flat, but are we certain the Catalyst AI was telling the truth there?  I realize you don't see EDI in the 'destroy' ending, but the AI also implied Shepard would die since he was "partly synthetic".  Obviously, this is not true in the destory ending where Shepard lives.  Furthermore, I get how since the Catalyst was controlling the Reapers then destorying it would destory the Reapers, but how does it effect other synthetics?  Does it destory all computers/electronics?  Obviously not, since Shep can still be alive and presumably other electronics are fine.  Was the Catalyst lying, or is this just more plot-holes from a poorly thought out ending?

Modifié par GeneraI Ripper, 08 mars 2012 - 08:46 .