297 réponses à ce sujet

[Nathan Redgrave]

Talking like the fanbase is a single market is the wrong way to think about this. There are the fans who hated ME2 and lauded ME1. There are the fans who hated ME1 and lauded ME2. There are people like me who saw good and bad in both titles. And honestly, not everyone in any of those three basic camps is going to be offended by ME3, although I'll wager most of the ones who lauded ME1 as being a massively superior game to ME2 will be.

I'm a pretty big fan of ME1 and ME2, and I'm quite satisfied with ME3. I think what you're really trying to say is that your own clique within the fanbase wasn't sufficiently catered to. Understandable, but it's not some kind of corporate atrocity or something.

[Megaman ds]

The only things i regret are that the choices are pretty much pointless throughout and that HARBINGER has a tiny role in the game. hope they do a dlc/update to fix this

[Gringbot]

All i can say is:

Told ya so.

[Aetius5]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Justin 2k seems to think he speaks for everyone.

Justin, you speak for yourself.

Sorry you didn't liek it as much as we hoped you would.

Dont feed the trollz. Back on topic, I agree with what most of what the troll says except the part about the competitive multiplayer market. See the multiplayer in this game is co-op. But yeah, most of what the original fanbase likes is gone and replaced with a different game. Haven't finished ME3 yet, won't judge it yet.

[RowanCF]

 I've got to admit a lot of the writing in 3 just doesn't feel right at all. Way too melodramatic all the time and nothing like the first two games. I understand trying to make it more emotional, but it goes way too far. 

(*Minor spoiler following*)

Did anyone else kind of cringe when the two krogan clans are aruing on the Shroud mission and then the female comes in and breaks it up or whatever.

Modifié par RowanCF, 08 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[Draemien]

Justin2k wrote...

So it looks like Bioware went all out on Mass Effect 3 to attract

The competitive multiplayer market
The gears of war market
The gay gamer market
The fast paced action gamer market
The casual gamer market
The people that are addicted to buying DLC packs in the hope they get a certain character market.

All well and great.  Loads of new players and loads of money for you hopefully.  But just like in Dragon Age 2, you forgot one market.  You know, the old faithful market that buy all your games, love all your games and really just wanted a decent ending to something we started playing 6 years ago, a decent face for Tali that shows some imagination, a reflection that our choices mattered and most importantly the conversation system we've been using for the whole series.

Seriously what were you thinking?  "They are going to buy it regardless, we've got their money in the bank, lets concentrate on making money elsewhere"?  Because thats what it seems like.  Do this stuff on a new franchise by all means, but come off it, you don't even give us a decent ending?  Or maybe you're planning on selling it to us later?  It's bad business and people will stop buying your stuff.

Agreed.

And despite the people trying to prove otherwise, the reaction of a lot of the people that make up core fanbase was pretty bad, specially when you take in consideration that everyone had great expectations for this game.

Just look at the metacritic user score (3.0 now): 
http://www.metacriti...c/mass-effect-3 

One could try to argue  that the user score is a result of a troll-job and therefore it is irrelevant but IT IS NOT. Checking on other games, you can see that many times the user score is close to the critics score. Mass Effect 1, for example, was consensually acclaimed by both users and critics. It's not the case with Mass Effect 3.

Reading the user reviews you can see that almost all of the reviewers are people that LOVED the first two games, but were disappointed by ME3. This is absolutely unexpected considering these guys already invested a lot of time in the game, are familiar with the setting, like the story and gameplay, etc. 

Why, then, are some fans so unsatisfied? Clearly, something went wrong. The points mentioned by the OP are some of the issues. There are countless others. And while the obvious flaws might not bother everyone, some of us are pretty upset.

That, itself, should already be a reason for concern by Bioware. Are the path they are taking a really positive one? Is going from a universally acclaimed ME1 to a contested ME3 a good sign? 

For me, the retarded plot and the horrible (and by horrible I don't mean sad, but ridiculously poorly written) endings made me like the game a lot less (if you want to read my short critique of the plot go to http://social.biowar...-9632916-1.html *warning - contain spoilers*). It feels that the game was written separately by lots of different unimaginative bad writers. Plot holes, "deus ex machina", etc.

Then, the auto-dialogue, lack of neutral choices (I used to choose neutral - ofttimes being paragon or renegade felt forced) and irrelevance of all my major choices to the final outcome pretty much sealed the deal. I didn't enjoy this game as much as I thought I would. Bioware promised us a lot, but didn't deliver it all.

Sure, it's still a fun game that I enjoy playing; I like the gameplay, the style, the setting, the characters.

However,  Bioware lost a lot of trust I had in them as a game consumer.

[Tecumseh420]

Doesn't appeal to their fanbase? Really? Odd, cuz my first Bioware game was the first NWN. KOTOR caused me to by a console. ME1, same thing. Loved Jade Empire. I buy their games because they continue to impress.

As for RPG................I started playing PnP in '78. Love the genre, and Biowares one of the best.

[TrojanGuy]

Fox544 wrote...

As much as I love the game (except the fully stupid multiplayer) ME3 seems more like EA's game instead of Bioware's game.

Sadly, I feel the same. I really feel like BioWare's commitment to quality, story, and gameplay has taken a hit by virtue of being owned by EA, and you can tell in ME3. The BioWare of ME1 and even ME2 (which I think is an amazing game, and EA didn't have enough time to sink their evil claws into BioWare in time to mess it up) doesn't seem to be around anymore. They used to care about telling an amazing, fleshed-out story. Now it seems like they want to tell a story but break it into parts and sell them to you piecemeal.

[SyyRaaaN]

He is partly right. This game is actually a letdown.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 08 mars 2012 - 05:31 .

[grimkillah]

I am happy with ME3, the only thing I want is the ability to lose yourself on a planet or two. I fall in love with ME1 because of all the planetary missions, and you actually go out to a planet and discover missions instead of using a probe or a scan. When you drove Mako around on bizarre planets you really felt like you are exploring the galaxy. ME2 and ME3 is still too narrowly focused for me. But story is amazing, and besides I doubt BW would ever return to ME1 type of space exploration, and that is ok, I have skyrim for that now.

[Savber100]

I'm pleased with ME3 so OP could shut the heck up.

Still want my damn vehicle sections though....

[azc23]

Multiplayer is good, romance sl for all is good, meh different difficulty settings have been around for a while...rushed ending that gives us no closure and ignores all our choices? That is where the sell out happened.

[Arppis]

Justin2k wrote...

melisma wrote...

'Gay gamers' is not a separate category from 'the fanbase'. If you think that gay people didn't play Mass Effect before, you're very much mistaken.

I have no issue with gays, don't start that.  I'm saying that they added all the gay relationship stuff as a way to appeal to the gay market who were not already playing Mass Effect.

And tbh, the gay people who play are a very small minority and the speech options given in the gay relationships could have been put to better use by having more speech options in the game for every player to see tbh.

Just like they have sexy women to appeal to us hetero men.

You seem to have a problem with them as you mentioned it so boldly up there and even in this quote you seem to be saying that gay people don't deserve romances in the games because they aren't as numerious as hetero players.

By that alone, why there is romances for femShep... or heck why there is FemShep? Those spaces could be used for something better too! 

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

How about appealing to the person who enjoys a good story?

Or am I going to ruin your narrative by saying I enjoyed the story and that's the only reason I played the ME games, and was seriously unsure about getting ME 3 after the snorefest of a story in ME 2, but is glad I didn't because I found the ME 3 story fantastic.  (And, because this is the internet, let me clarify that I'm not being sarcastic).

As a side note, I have to admit to lulz at how every background NPC seems gay in ME 3. I think that there's little upside over being hamfisted over social issues, but /le shrug. 

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 08 mars 2012 - 06:07 .

[WarChicken78]

Dear OP I'll just quote my opinion on this from another topic:

I know that disappointment can cloud the view, but they made that all for us, with the intention to please as much people as possible. And the way I know bioware, I guess they'll have done an outstanding job if you look behind all your single personal expectations, that were not fulfilled.

Every game is about money. How do you think game develloping companies are supposed to survive if they don't want to make money.

Also, if you compare ME3 to ME2, the RPG elements like inventory system and Leveling system have not been cut, but expanded upon.
It's a compromise between the ME1 system and the ME2 system.

And seriously, this game was designed as an action RPG from the start, meaning, that Shooter elements play a role in this setting. The shooter elements in ME1 were... sub optimal, to state it politely. This has been improved along with a LOT of other things, the community wanted.
Go look through the old forums, look what the most people complained about, and look what they then changed.
ME3 is the product of Bioware listening to their fans.

Would you like it better, if they'd not listen to us?
Really, you don''t make sense here.

Of cause it might be, that ME3 doesn't fit your taste. Maybe it won't fit mine when I recieve and try it tomorrow tonight.
But we are 2 in a community of tens of thousends, possibly more.
Look what people demanded after ME1 and ME2 - thats what we got.

If you want Bioware to not listen to the community and not to be interested in money, you are living in a very strange dream world. I want them to make buttloads of money to be able to continue producing good games while trying to please the community as much as possible.

[Soulwatcher1974]

 I knew Bioware was going to go down hill fast once they were owned by EA. You could really tell EA was taking control of the company starting with ME2. And by the time DA2 was released EA had the death grip on Bioware. I really thought after the huge backlash from Bioware fans over DA2. That Bioware would redeem them selves.

Its not that ME3 is a bad game because its not, I enjoyed it. But its the fact that it is the furthest thing from a RPG that I have seen. If ME3 was a stand alone game with shooter stamped on the box. I would say that its a great story driven shooter.

But thats not why I bought the game. I bought the game because I wanted to buy a RPG from the ledgenary RPG maker. ME3 has had almost every single RPG element stripped from the game. You make very few choices, none of which matter much at the end. The planets are nothing more then shooter levels. They funnel you from point A to point B and you can not vary from the path. Then they proceed to send wave after wave of mobs until a time limit is reached. You can not advance or retreat until every mob is dead.

I will say this much, fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me, but trust me on this. There is not going to be a third time. Bioware is no longer the ledgenary RPG maker they once were. They are EA with Bioware stamped on the box to promote sales. The next Bioware game I buy will be out of the bargan ben!

[Sidney]

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...

Its not that ME3 is a bad game because its not, I enjoyed it. But its the fact that it is the furthest thing from a RPG that I have seen. If ME3 was a stand alone game with shooter stamped on the box. I would say that its a great story driven shooter.

I've never seen a story driven shooter be this talky. I spent 2 hours playing today and never fired a shot in anger. Bioshock is a great story driven shooter but you never go more than 5 minutes w/o combat. I had all kinds of interactions with characters, made decisions and in total my character and yours likely aren't all that much alike which ain't true in any shooter.

Hell, Skyrim is more of a shooter than this is. I'm serious and all the RPG luddites will have their head explode but bottom line you can't hit ANYTHING in Skyrim w/o being a twitch monkey aiming because nothing like spells even auto-target. I can play Skyrim for dozens of hours and have zero dialog - and when i do have dialog I pray for it to end ASAP - by just walking to random dungeon X killing trash mobs Y and then walking to dungeon Z to kill trash mob B. Good news, the fact that you craft another iron dagger, or actually 20 at the same time, makes it sooooo much more RPG'ish.

[Aesandil]

Draemien wrote...

It feels that the game was written separately by lots of different unimaginative bad writers. Plot holes, "deus ex machina", etc.

I always wished that Drew Karpyshyn had stayed on to see this story through. 

[Soulwatcher1974]

Sidney wrote...

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...

Its not that ME3 is a bad game because its not, I enjoyed it. But its the fact that it is the furthest thing from a RPG that I have seen. If ME3 was a stand alone game with shooter stamped on the box. I would say that its a great story driven shooter.

I've never seen a story driven shooter be this talky. I spent 2 hours playing today and never fired a shot in anger. Bioshock is a great story driven shooter but you never go more than 5 minutes w/o combat. I had all kinds of interactions with characters, made decisions and in total my character and yours likely aren't all that much alike which ain't true in any shooter.

Hell, Skyrim is more of a shooter than this is. I'm serious and all the RPG luddites will have their head explode but bottom line you can't hit ANYTHING in Skyrim w/o being a twitch monkey aiming because nothing like spells even auto-target. I can play Skyrim for dozens of hours and have zero dialog - and when i do have dialog I pray for it to end ASAP - by just walking to random dungeon X killing trash mobs Y and then walking to dungeon Z to kill trash mob B. Good news, the fact that you craft another iron dagger, or actually 20 at the same time, makes it sooooo much more RPG'ish.

Try exploring a planet with out firing a single shot. If you hang out on the Normandy all day then ya, you can get away with out firing anything. Its the only place in the game where there is Zero combat.

[Sidney]

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...Try exploring a planet with out firing a single shot. If you hang out on the Normandy all day then ya, you can get away with out firing anything. Its the only place in the game where there is Zero combat.

The Citadel ring any bells? I don't even have a gun on the station.

Yes the Normandy is also a gun free zone but it isn't just a ship. You are doing things on that ship -talking to squaddies, handling research, purchasing, and then the mission related things like running a war council. Wow, that war council was the sort of pulse pounding action you expect from a CoD type game isn't it? White hot action!

[WarChicken78]

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...

 I knew Bioware was going to go down hill fast once they were owned by EA. You could really tell EA was taking control of the company starting with ME2. And by the time DA2 was released EA had the death grip on Bioware. I really thought after the huge backlash from Bioware fans over DA2. That Bioware would redeem them selves.

Please check your facts before complaining here.
Start up ME1 and look whose logo appears after the Bioware one.
Right, EA. Bioware was with EA fom the first ME on. As much as I know they went with EA to be able to produce things like ME and DA:O, because EA has a little bit more of a budget than Bioware alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fond of megacorporations like EA, but you can't just throw blame at them when your blame isn't based on facts.

[Soulwatcher1974]

Sidney wrote...

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...Try exploring a planet with out firing a single shot. If you hang out on the Normandy all day then ya, you can get away with out firing anything. Its the only place in the game where there is Zero combat.

The Citadel ring any bells? I don't even have a gun on the station.

Yes the Normandy is also a gun free zone but it isn't just a ship. You are doing things on that ship -talking to squaddies, handling research, purchasing, and then the mission related things like running a war council. Wow, that war council was the sort of pulse pounding action you expect from a CoD type game isn't it? White hot action!

I hate to break the bad news to you but there is combat there, play the game.

[Soulwatcher1974]

WarChicken78 wrote...

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...

 I knew Bioware was going to go down hill fast once they were owned by EA. You could really tell EA was taking control of the company starting with ME2. And by the time DA2 was released EA had the death grip on Bioware. I really thought after the huge backlash from Bioware fans over DA2. That Bioware would redeem them selves.

Please check your facts before complaining here.
Start up ME1 and look whose logo appears after the Bioware one.
Right, EA. Bioware was with EA fom the first ME on. As much as I know they went with EA to be able to produce things like ME and DA:O, because EA has a little bit more of a budget than Bioware alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fond of megacorporations like EA, but you can't just throw blame at them when your blame isn't based on facts.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-buying-bioware-pandemic-for-860m-6180818 

ME1 was published by Microsoft and was a game for Windows.

Modifié par Soulwatcher1974, 08 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[Soulwatcher1974]

Sorry delete plz

Modifié par Soulwatcher1974, 08 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[Sidney]

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Soulwatcher1974 wrote...Try exploring a planet with out firing a single shot. If you hang out on the Normandy all day then ya, you can get away with out firing anything. Its the only place in the game where there is Zero combat.

The Citadel ring any bells? I don't even have a gun on the station.

Yes the Normandy is also a gun free zone but it isn't just a ship. You are doing things on that ship -talking to squaddies, handling research, purchasing, and then the mission related things like running a war council. Wow, that war council was the sort of pulse pounding action you expect from a CoD type game isn't it? White hot action!

I hate to break the bad news to you but there is combat there, play the game.

Really? Well then it must happen later. I've spent a raftload of time on the platform because I've seen no shooting other than the gun range. Still, the fact that there is somne gunplay doesn't elminiate the fact that it is clearly a dialog/character heavy location unlike any shooter you could care to name. There simply aren't shooter that have this level of dialog nor this level of interaction. Even "talky" action games like AC have "one" way to play the character.