178 réponses à ce sujet

[Prince Keldar]

My opinion is this. The following is major spoilers for DAO just in case. I promise it ties in to ME3.





In Dragon Age Origins your decisions matter in the epilogue. How do you defeat the archdemon? you can do the dark ritual and survive, you can have Alistair (I think haven't played in a while) kill it, you can have loghain kill it. If you don't do the DR then you die if you kill it. If you live you could become King/Queen, a Teyrn, go in search of Morrigan, etc.

The point is each and every decision you make has a consequence and you learn of the consequence. ME3 is very sadly lacking in that aspect. All of the decisions that we have made over the last 3 games come to nothing.

Finally, I think most of the criticism would go away if Shepard/Normandy Crew including LI had at least one ending where they are together. Because every ending has Shepard and Normandy separated. This game is supposed to bring a resolution and I think most including myself do not have it because of that.

[TudorWolf]

Thematically, I thought the ending was alright. I'm okay with Shep having to sacrifice him/herself to finish this fight, the main gripe is the Normandy thing and the lack of an epilogue.

I mean, the Normandy thing is so forced and ridiculous it's not even funny. Why was it there, going through a relay (by all appearances)? And how the heck did Kaidan, who was with me on Earth at the end, get there?! And let's not even start on the whole team dextro implications...

Beyond that, the epilogue... or rather the lack of one. I don't count that "The Shepard" thing. Doesn't explain a thing. Mainly just raises further questions...


I mean, I loved the game, but that left a bitter taste in my mouth

[Troutz]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
I think it took a lot of guts for Bioware to go that route; to spring upon the player that they were rehashing 'past' events that possibly laid the foundation for however 'current' society was formed. You certainly never thought that's what you were doing throughout this trilogy. Bravo for daring to defy expectations Bioware. I didn't think you had it in you after being bought out by EA, especially since most of your stories tend to follow the same general script.

To blow a hole in your whole point here, this is impossible because past events in Earth history are mentioned frequently throughout the trilogy. A short list off the top of my head:

1. Head of the Statue of Liberty is on display in the vault during Kasumi's DLC mission

2. Legion's name is derived from the Christian Bible.

3. All the cities mentioned in ME3 are actual cities. Vancouver, London, etc.

4. Samara compares the Justicars to Knight Templars from the Medieval ages.

5. Thane quotes Thomas Hobbes, an actual philosopher from the Renaissance era.

6. The mass relay in the Sol system was encased in a block of ice that we formerly believed was Charon, the moon orbiting Pluto. Since all the mass relays are destroyed at the end of ME3, this means Charon wouldn't exist in modern times if your theory is correct.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Prince Keldar wrote...

My opinion is this. The following is major spoilers for DAO just in case. I promise it ties in to ME3.





In Dragon Age Origins your decisions matter in the epilogue. How do you defeat the archdemon? you can do the dark ritual and survive, you can have Alistair (I think haven't played in a while) kill it, you can have loghain kill it. If you don't do the DR then you die if you kill it. If you live you could become King/Queen, a Teyrn, go in search of Morrigan, etc.

The point is each and every decision you make has a consequence and you learn of the consequence. ME3 is very sadly lacking in that aspect. All of the decisions that we have made over the last 3 games come to nothing.

Finally, I think most of the criticism would go away if Shepard/Normandy Crew including LI had at least one ending where they are together. Because every ending has Shepard and Normandy separated. This game is supposed to bring a resolution and I think most including myself do not have it because of that.

But, they are together. Not to get religious, because I think we can discuss this theme Bioware was going for without turning it into a religion, but Shepard essentially became the 'savior/god' figure and is within everyone. 

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Troutz wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
I think it took a lot of guts for Bioware to go that route; to spring upon the player that they were rehashing 'past' events that possibly laid the foundation for however 'current' society was formed. You certainly never thought that's what you were doing throughout this trilogy. Bravo for daring to defy expectations Bioware. I didn't think you had it in you after being bought out by EA, especially since most of your stories tend to follow the same general script.

To blow a hole in your whole point here, this is impossible because past events in Earth history are mentioned frequently throughout the trilogy. A short list off the top of my head:

1. Head of the Statue of Liberty is on display in the vault during Kasumi's DLC mission

2. Legion's name is derived from the Christian Bible.

3. All the cities mentioned in ME3 are actual cities. Vancouver, London, etc.

4. Samara compares the Justicars to Knight Templars from the Medieval ages.

5. Thane quotes Thomas Hobbes, an actual philosopher from the Renaissance era.

6. The mass relay in the Sol system was encased in a block of ice that we formerly believed was Charon, the moon orbiting Pluto. Since all the mass relays are destroyed at the end of ME3, this means Charon wouldn't exist in modern times if your theory is correct.

I think your post shows how you totally didn't get it. It's not our current 'present' where the story is being told. It's the 'present' of the fictional world Bioware made, far in the future from the events played out in the ME games. 

[Troutz]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Troutz wrote...

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
I think it took a lot of guts for Bioware to go that route; to spring upon the player that they were rehashing 'past' events that possibly laid the foundation for however 'current' society was formed. You certainly never thought that's what you were doing throughout this trilogy. Bravo for daring to defy expectations Bioware. I didn't think you had it in you after being bought out by EA, especially since most of your stories tend to follow the same general script.

To blow a hole in your whole point here, this is impossible because past events in Earth history are mentioned frequently throughout the trilogy. A short list off the top of my head:

1. Head of the Statue of Liberty is on display in the vault during Kasumi's DLC mission

2. Legion's name is derived from the Christian Bible.

3. All the cities mentioned in ME3 are actual cities. Vancouver, London, etc.

4. Samara compares the Justicars to Knight Templars from the Medieval ages.

5. Thane quotes Thomas Hobbes, an actual philosopher from the Renaissance era.

6. The mass relay in the Sol system was encased in a block of ice that we formerly believed was Charon, the moon orbiting Pluto. Since all the mass relays are destroyed at the end of ME3, this means Charon wouldn't exist in modern times if your theory is correct.

I think your post shows how you totally didn't get it. It's not our current 'present' where the story is being told. It's the 'present' of the fictional world Bioware made, far in the future from the events played out in the ME games. 

Sorry then, the way you worded it made it sound like you thought these were past events in our actual history. Either way, what you are proposing is not outrageous and would be a nice closing to a well-told ending. Problem is, this isn't a well-told ending. I just spent three games growing fond of all these characters, making tons of decisions, and it all leads up to a static ending. Take the red, green, or blue pill, then watch a canned cutscene. The end.

Now ask yourself this: Is that the right way to end one of the most immersive RPGs ever made?

[Prince Keldar]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Prince Keldar wrote...

My opinion is this. The following is major spoilers for DAO just in case. I promise it ties in to ME3.





In Dragon Age Origins your decisions matter in the epilogue. How do you defeat the archdemon? you can do the dark ritual and survive, you can have Alistair (I think haven't played in a while) kill it, you can have loghain kill it. If you don't do the DR then you die if you kill it. If you live you could become King/Queen, a Teyrn, go in search of Morrigan, etc.

The point is each and every decision you make has a consequence and you learn of the consequence. ME3 is very sadly lacking in that aspect. All of the decisions that we have made over the last 3 games come to nothing.

Finally, I think most of the criticism would go away if Shepard/Normandy Crew including LI had at least one ending where they are together. Because every ending has Shepard and Normandy separated. This game is supposed to bring a resolution and I think most including myself do not have it because of that.

But, they are together. Not to get religious, because I think we can discuss this theme Bioware was going for without turning it into a religion, but Shepard essentially became the 'savior/god' figure and is within everyone. 

That is something that I expect to hear on sundays not in a video game.  If this were a novel or movie than yes that idea may work because it is someones particular story that they are telling however the entire premise for the games is that even though there is a general direction in the storytelling (ie. reapers invading, collecting allies, etc.) how you go about it is up to you and that your decisions matter and will have consequences.  As it turns out it didn't happen and Bioware lied.

Also, I am not talking about big picture like what happened to the galaxy, but instead am talking about a certain resolution for Shepard and the crew.  LITERALLY not figuratively.

Modifié par Prince Keldar, 08 mars 2012 - 04:58 .

[TheImmortalBeaver]

I thought the ending was fantastic. I mean, it could've been better, as the whole thing with the black hole was a massive "WTF" moment for me. It just made no sense, and wasn't really necessary. That being said, I like how it was handled AFTER that. Knowing that the crew of the Normandy was fine and would survive, despite being trapped who knows where, contributed to the general feeling of trying to save the Future, not the Present (if that makes sense). It was about making sure that life continued, not Shepard himself, and it helped make sure Shepard's sacrifice was not in vain. Also, not sure how Ashley/Prothy survived. I mean, one minute they get blown up with big-ass laser, next moment fine? WAT

They could've still done that with the Normandy sticking around, as you could've had an almost identical scene on Earth itself, with a crashed Normandy, so it was that was kind of annoying, but not a deal breaker for me. So the endings are far from perfect, but I get the subtle feeling that the Normandy's new location will have something to do with the Mass Effect story moving forward. If not, my (virtual) friends get to live out their days in peace, and I'm OK with that.

Also, an epilogue would've been nice, but as it stands, I wouldn't consider the lack of one something that detracted from the experience, as I feel that the ending capped off the trilogy wonderfully. It just would've been nice to learn what happened to the Krogans and Salarians and everybody.

Quick Edit: I just noticed that my post was actually fairly negative, but I would like to point out that I felt that each section of the game (Krogan vs. Genophage, Quarian vs. Geth, Cerberus) capped themselves off and resolved themselves nicely. The ending was the ending for Shepard, and I thought it was fantastic. Just not perfect.

Modifié par Misterpinky0, 08 mars 2012 - 05:04 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

I'm half-and-half. The overall gist of the ending works for me; I think there could have been more meat to it, though, and the fate of the Normandy just seems forced to me.

[Morogrem]

while I do actually like the ending (that I've experienced, its only been the destroy one, though I'm told the 3rd one, the one where shep survives, that would be the one I wouldve wanted to do if i knew it existed) and the other one looks cool too, I'm not without my gripes. I like the fact that they ended it the way they did, and still gave you a chance to survive, one that you actually had to work for (unlikethe 2nd one, where it really felt like you had to work to not survive), what I diddnt like is that they tell you almost nothing about the survival of your friends... that is what upset me, not the fact that my character died, though I'm definetly going to try the survival option in the future, but the fact that I dont know if my friends, beyond the 3 that walked out of the shuttle, died...

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Misterpinky0 wrote...

I thought the ending was fantastic. I mean, it could've been better, as the whole thing with the black hole was a massive "WTF" moment for me. It just made no sense, and wasn't really necessary. That being said, I like how it was handled AFTER that. Knowing that the crew of the Normandy was fine and would survive, despite being trapped who knows where, contributed to the general feeling of trying to save the Future, not the Present (if that makes sense). It was about making sure that life continued, not Shepard himself, and it helped make sure Shepard's sacrifice was not in vain. Also, not sure how Ashley/Prothy survived. I mean, one minute they get blown up with big-ass laser, next moment fine? WAT

They could've still done that with the Normandy sticking around, as you could've had an almost identical scene on Earth itself, with a crashed Normandy, so it was that was kind of annoying, but not a deal breaker for me. So the endings are far from perfect, but I get the subtle feeling that the Normandy's new location will have something to do with the Mass Effect story moving forward. If not, my (virtual) friends get to live out their days in peace, and I'm OK with that.

Also, an epilogue would've been nice, but as it stands, I wouldn't consider the lack of one something that detracted from the experience, as I feel that the ending capped off the trilogy wonderfully. It just would've been nice to learn what happened to the Krogans and Salarians and everybody.

Quick Edit: I just noticed that my post was actually fairly negative, but I would like to point out that I felt that each section of the game (Krogan vs. Genophage, Quarian vs. Geth, Cerberus) capped themselves off and resolved themselves nicely. The ending was the ending for Shepard, and I thought it was fantastic. Just not perfect.

Well, there's a lot of room for interpretation, but I suspect the Father/Son at the end are descendents of the new 'human' population that grew up on that planet the Normandy crashed on. The entire game trilogy was the story of how their world was created. A modern day creation myth. If the Mass Effect gates were all blown to pieces, it's entirely possible that in that 'present' that this father was telling the story to his child in, life as these people know it is restricted to that planet/solar system, and so the story we played through over the three games really is mythical from their view. It'd be a very different Mass Effect game if they were to give us a new game/series set on that planet, during the epoch the Father/Son live, vs the epoch the current trilogy is set in, I suspect.

That said, an obvious choice for DLC are character epilogues for how these brave new people (Normandy Crew) began a new civilization on this undisclosed planet. 

There's some paralells here to how Battlestar Galactica ended as well. 

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 08 mars 2012 - 05:25 .

[Edrick1976]

I think they suck, they leave me with the feeling of theirs no hope and nothing we did in ANY of the ME games matter because all the endings give us no HOPE!!!! Hell it does not bother me that shepared died I would just like to see that their was at least some hope for the future because I dont see it.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Edington wrote...

I think they suck, they leave me with the feeling of theirs no hope and nothing we did in ANY of the ME games matter because all the endings give us no HOPE!!!! Hell it does not bother me that shepared died I would just like to see that their was at least some hope for the future because I dont see it.

I really think the ending went over so many people's heads. The ending was all about HOPE. How people keep thinking the opposite is puzzling, to put it mildly. 

Normandy crew lands on a planet, fast forward who knows how many years, and we have a Father telling his Son a story (the game trilogy) of how life started on their 'world'. How does that make you think there's no hope for the future?  The very existence of this father and son shows Shepard won and brought us a future free from the Reapers (presumably). 

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 08 mars 2012 - 05:30 .

[Troutz]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Edington wrote...

I think they suck, they leave me with the feeling of theirs no hope and nothing we did in ANY of the ME games matter because all the endings give us no HOPE!!!! Hell it does not bother me that shepared died I would just like to see that their was at least some hope for the future because I dont see it.

I really think the ending went over so many people's heads. The ending was all about HOPE. How people keep thinking the opposite is puzzling, to put it mildly. 

Normandy crew lands on a planet, fast forward who knows how many years, and we have a Father telling his Son a story (the game trilogy) of how life started on their 'world'. How does that make you think there's no hope for the future? 

I think you're failing to miss an overarching point here. A lot of us get the ending. We really do. The problem is that you are ignoring all the things we've been doing over the course of this trilogy. All the decisions and all the relationships. In the end, none of it mattered. We were given three static options: die and send the Reapers away, die and turn everyone into cyborgs, or die/not die and destroy all technology. Oh, and no matter what, all the mass relays are obliterated.

Why is this, a game based so heavily on "your actions have consequences", blow all your decisions away in the end and say "here you go, you have three endings, choose wisely. Also, I hope you don't care for closure as to what happens to Earth, or your friends/love interest, or the other species, or anything else. The end. Mass Effect out."

[J5550123]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Edington wrote...

I think they suck, they leave me with the feeling of theirs no hope and nothing we did in ANY of the ME games matter because all the endings give us no HOPE!!!! Hell it does not bother me that shepared died I would just like to see that their was at least some hope for the future because I dont see it.

I really think the ending went over so many people's heads. The ending was all about HOPE. How people keep thinking the opposite is puzzling, to put it mildly. 

Normandy crew lands on a planet, fast forward who knows how many years, and we have a Father telling his Son a story (the game trilogy) of how life started on their 'world'. How does that make you think there's no hope for the future?  The very existence of this father and son shows Shepard won and brought us a future free from the Reapers (presumably). 

The entire ending was depressing. None of the choices you made in the past two games even mattered and there was no closure.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Well, we could get into a back and forth over how silly it is to think there's 'choices' in a pre-scripted story, and how choice in something that's pre-scripted is just an illusion to begin with, but I suspect that would just turn into a neverending back and forth, so let's just leave it like this: You disliked the ending. I loved it.

As this thread is asking for people who enjoyed the ending, I think one of us is on topic. ;D

[Troutz]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Well, we could get into a back and forth over how silly it is to think there's 'choices' in a pre-scripted story, and how choice in something that's pre-scripted is just an illusion to begin with, but I suspect that would just turn into a neverending back and forth, so let's just leave it like this: You disliked the ending. I loved it.

As this thread is asking for people who enjoyed the ending, I think one of us is on topic. ;D

Point taken. You have a right to your opinion. I just feel like you're misrepresenting a lot of people here as 'not getting the ending' when in fact we do.

[ratzerman]

The problem with interpreting the ending as hopeful is that it changes perspectives so suddenly.

The entire series was focused on Shepard, and his/her relationships with others. We're encouraged to bond with our Shepards, craft them and guide them just the way we want. We become attached because the focus is always on Shepard.

Then, at the very end, we're asked to forget all of that attachment and embrace a "greater good" type of ending in which everyone you cared about is either dead or hopelessly lost. We're supposed to just shrug it off, and be content with the knowledge that life will find a way.

Well..... no. It doesn't work like that. It doesn't for me, anyway.

[BobWalt]

I don't like dark fiction with unhappy endings. Dark fiction and unhappy endings are for people with story book lives who have never faced real tragedy so they need to have it in their entertainment.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

BobWalt wrote...
Dark fiction and unhappy endings are for people with story book lives who have never faced real tragedy so they need to have it in their entertainment.

/eyeroll

[AndroLeonidas]

Steptroll wrote...

The endings do not suck because they're dark. They suck because they are shallow, contrived and far below the high standards that people have come to expect from Bioware. A childish, easy and unworthy end to something truly great, with no closure or answers.

Very much this.

[future_usmc]

I didnt like it because it just didnt feel right. they gave us all these variables for the game but a the end it amounted to really nothing. It feels like a waste of a couple years of my life. I enjoyed the journey though. I'll just pretend a different ending happened, why? BECAUSE I CAN

[RiouHotaru]

The endings were perfectly fine to me. And the post credit sequence was just so that you knew that life DID go on, and Galactic civilization did recover.

Also, the endings, while resolving Shepard's story, are still vague enough that it's possible to headcanon a reunion between Shepard and his crew (assuming you got that ending)

[Dracotamer]

Some people do, but I do not count myself as one of them. I hated the endings.

[Vezon009710]

I thought they were okay. I just hate how a kid controlls the Reapers.