178 réponses à ce sujet

[TheImmortalBeaver]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Well, there's a lot of room for interpretation, but I suspect the Father/Son at the end are descendents of the new 'human' population that grew up on that planet the Normandy crashed on. The entire game trilogy was the story of how their world was created. A modern day creation myth. If the Mass Effect gates were all blown to pieces, it's entirely possible that in that 'present' that this father was telling the story to his child in, life as these people know it is restricted to that planet/solar system, and so the story we played through over the three games really is mythical from their view. It'd be a very different Mass Effect game if they were to give us a new game/series set on that planet, during the epoch the Father/Son live, vs the epoch the current trilogy is set in, I suspect.

That said, an obvious choice for DLC are character epilogues for how these brave new people (Normandy Crew) began a new civilization on this undisclosed planet. 

There's some paralells here to how Battlestar Galactica ended as well. 

I imagine that "room for interpretation" is what is driving most people bonkers. There are so many questions, and the game ends with little more than a "It's going to be ok!". People didn't want that. They wanted an epilogue or flat-out happy endings. The irony is, that I've come to agree with you entirely. The ending basically shows you why you've been fighting all along: So that somebody may live. And they do. Shepard is a legend. And nobody will have to worry about the Reapers ever again.

[SolidisusSnake1]

I was not happy with the ending at all and it really upset me but not in the way that most people here are complaining. First off I'm ok with the Mass Relays blowing up I actually predicted that since they are a Reaper construction, so I knew that in the end they were going to go bye bye. Which of course reinforces the notion of being broken free from the Reapers control and the Galaxy being dependent on itself for once.I'm even fine with Shepard dying, I mean do people really expect to ride off into the sunset with their LI happily ever after? This is a dark game where billions of people die every second so it was obvious sacrifices would have to be made.

No my concern is with the lack of closure and the choices at the end. For one we don't know any of the outcomes of our decisions besides a different color explosion. They could have at least given us a glimpse of Earth and the Galaxy post our end decision, perhaps show everyone rebuilding, celebrating, maybe a shot of our LI, but no we get nothing. Second the Normandy crash landing makes ZERO sense, why would it fly through a really during THE BATTLE FOR EARTH. And why would the people I took with me to enter the Citadel be there as well? That whole sequence is stupid.

But what I really hate are the choices, for one the stupid idiot kid/alien said that the Reapers are created because organics and synthetics cant get along. UM HELLO, I just united the Geth and the Quarians, and EDI is an AI that pilots my ship, all of them are working together and getting along. So that right there disproved his theory that the Reapers were needed, but nope he doesnt even take notice of this. And the ending choices felt way too Deus Ex except not done as clever or well thought out.

I mean the Synthesis ending was the same as every ending except people had a green glow, wtf. That should have more meaning. I mean if your going to riff off Deus Ex then go all the way, make Synthesis so that Shepard becomes a Reaper/God and heralds the galaxy into a new age. And I think in that ending the Relays should not have blown up.

Argghhh I'm so disappointed.

[General Shrooms]

Points on why the ending's were terrible:

-Felt out of place compared to the setting of the rest of the game
-The only solution to stopping synthetics from killing organics is to "harvest" (aka kill) organics. WHAT!? (Chaos vs Order explanation was down right ridiculous)
-Almost all decisions lead up to the same ending making them feel pointless.
-No closer what so ever, you don't really get to see the effect of your final decision.

To me, this was a horrible way to end the trilogy, an overall disappointment.

Modifié par General Shrooms, 09 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[Shanook]

As I've said before, the endings themselves were fantastic. A weapon that just so happened to only kill Reapers and leave everything else intact would have been a huge case of deus ex machina. But the problem is that there wasn't any choice. No matter what you did throughout the course of the three games, you got the same three endings, and the whole point of Mass Effect was how your choices affect the universe.

So I fully support the endings already in place. I just wish there was a little more to choose from.

[Rawgrim]

I can like the endings in the game, but only if i had some more options for the endings as well.

[shnellegaming]

I think the endings are imaginative. I have no problems with them in some sense. However I also think they go against the main themes of Mass Effect (controlling Reapers gaining unlimited power with the Reaper tech is a Renegade theme) (Destroying Reapers only and all their Tech to allow the galaxy to live on its own and develop on its own is a Paragon theme) and suddenly its switched at the end. I like the synthesis theme.

I can't stand the feeling that my crew, all the people I was fighting for that are still alive are doomed. Thats what I don't like. Yes the galaxy will recover in thousands of years, thats a given. But I want to know that the people, my crew, people I fought for that survived have hope of making a better life. The lack of exposition and the way things were presented leaves you with a sour feeling of despair. It is the lack of exposition for me. Also the stand off against TIM is so Saren 2.0. Please give us something different.

I would rather have the choice (since choice has always been a serious theme of Bioware) that if I work hard enough to make a perfect perfect ending then my Shepard gets a happy ending with their LI. Cause they have put some awesome work into making us fall in love with these characters. It gives me a reason to play a new game+.

[NYG1991]

The game goes from great to WTF as soon as Shepard goes up that platform. It desperately needed some sort of epilogue to explain the aftermath of the different choices.

It would've been better to just let him bleed out alongside Anderson watching the battle unfold.

[WildGunsTomcat]

KitePolaris wrote...

J5550123 wrote...

Most people also want their choices to actually have an impact on the ending.

I would disagree with that. The loudest whining has been from the Disney crew, not the Choice crew.

You know what I love about your posts?

They denigrate people without actually being brave enough to come out and denigrate them to their face.

"The loudest whining has been from the Disney crew, not the Choice crew." 

So what makes them "The Disney Crew" because they want the choice to have a happy ending? Wouldn't that make them part of the CHOICE crew? 

Or why don't you continue to denigrate and mock people some more, you know....make your point even less valid. 

[ziloe]

  I think it's silly for people to assume that just because people hated the ending, that they wanted something that was all puppy and rainbows. We just wanted something that made sense. 

Honestly, why is Joker even going through a Relay? That would imply they're running away. We already got to Earth, so having them stranded in some random congo on another planet, that's just killing them off. There's no closure. 

The Relays, though destroyed, have destroyed the economy. Without FTL travel getting to those other systems is now rendered almost impossible. So, despite the Reapers invasion being stopped, it's as though we lost the war anyway. 

There was no memorial service for our efforts either. If I had gotten Anderson to live, it would have been nice to see him giving a speech. But, instead we got that. All of our choices, they meant nothing. And that's where this problem lies, among other things that leave questions. 

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I've been spoiling myself as more videos of the variations of the endings become available. My opinion of the endings is changing, now that I'm able to see the nuances between the permutations... I can't say I'm liking them yet (I have yet to see a truly good ending yet) but I think I'm starting to understand.
Before I go on, I also want to clear the air with the ridiculous notion that a happy 'Hollywood' ending is wrong for a 'Dark Sci-Fi' like Mass Effect... Mass Effect IS a Hollywood movie. A Hollywood saga if you will. ME 1, 2 & 3 all have deliberate homages to camp and Hollywood cliche. ME1 heavily referenced the aesthetic of classic sci-fi, which was in large part optimistic and light. ME2 basically followed the mode of a "Dirty Dozen" / "Ocean's 11 / Italian Job" type 'heist' flick, hence the theme "Fight for the Lost" (ie: steal/"win back" those the Collectors had taken), granted it had to work under the backdrop of an impending Reaper invasion. ME3 is a synthesis of the previous two, and actually closely follows the latter plot of Babylon 5. Basically the only thing that's truly dark in Mass Effect is the Reapers... that in itself just makes it a space opera... like Bab5, not say.. WH40k (where everyone is evil and everything is bad) or Cthulthu Mythos (where even Cthulthu the "Reaper" is really just another hapless soul in a nihilistic, predatory cosmos). Anyway, the point is, ME just isn't that dark, and it really is a "Hollywood" saga. It has always had a strong theme of hope; that if one works hard enough for the right goals, there is always hope that things might just work out. Whether that's true IRL is irrelevant, because that's the way the story's been set up to be all this time.
ME3's endings are the only point where the story bucks this trend.

The endings seem to vary a bit in severity depending on your EMS and each of the 3 choices result in different things according to different levels of EMS. There are 17 permutations available, but the best one I've seen is still terrible (maxed EMS, maxed Readiness, maxed 'people' Assets ie: all survivors from ME1-3, but probably not NG+). No one has gotten the "4th choice", but that seems to be the only hope for a proper good ending.
Frankly, ATM I feel the 17 endings are too hard for a single person to differentiate and comprehend, as to do so would take at least 17 b2b PTs, which is insane... Even the alleged 18th ending would require at least 2 PTs, assuming a perfect completionist import from the past 2 games... Because the 17 'easy' endings are so dissatisfying - even bitter in some cases, IDK how BW expects any substantial number of us to actually play through enough time to get the one good ending that we don't even know exists.

ATM I'm still at a loss as to what BW was thinking when they setup ME3's finale. All I know is that if a 4th option really exists, then it has to address the glaring logical fallacy in the Catalyst's reasoning. Legion (and by natural extension the 'True' Geth) and EDI (who is part Reaper) AND Shepard (who is implied to be at least heavily cybernetic, if not part Reaper) stand as hard evidence in contrary to the Catalyst's main premise and MO. Not to mention, each ending doesn't just conclude Shepard's story, but basically abolishes the key element of the ME Universe as well (despite BWs suggestion that the ME Universe would go on without him/her). For me, these are major serious sticking points that make me wonder how anyone can walk away satisfied with this game. Yet without knowing BWs plans for future DLC, it remains to be seen whether fans of the series will get what they really deserve out of this game.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 09 mars 2012 - 09:55 .

[Storenumber9]

I think people saying it needed to have a "dark, gritty sci-fi ending" is an excuse to avoid all of the glaring errors wrong with the ending.

One poster on here explained it perfectly: What if, on Return of the Jedi, the Death Star 2.0 blew up and killed everyone, and it just ended there. Is that a good ending? No. That's pretty much what Mass Effect 3 did.
To add to that, what if seconds before the destruction, Han, Laia, and Lando got on the Falcon and high tailed it out of the system? That would have gone against everything that made them who they are.

And to also say "most people complaining want a Disney ending" is pretty wrong. I've seen a lot of people on here as well who hated the ended, but are comfortable with a dark ending. In fact, it's likely that most of the people who want a happy ending don't really want a happy ending in general, they just want the option for one.

It doesn't matter if it's canon or not.

I'd also go as far as to say that a happy ending doesn't always mean Shepard is alive. It should be a risk, no matter what.

Again, using Star Wars, Vader died at the end, but we're happy for him because he was redeemed, not only in the eyes of his son, but in the eyes of the rebels. They would not have had a funeral for him otherwise.

But I think the biggest problem here is closure. We don't know what happens after the battle on a character level, and on a universal level. The only hint we're given is that silly Stargazer scene.

Also, Joker shouldn't be going into FTL. It just shouldn't be happening.

[Faraborne]

Steptroll wrote...

The endings do not suck because they're dark. They suck because they are shallow, contrived and far below the high standards that people have come to expect from Bioware. A childish, easy and unworthy end to something truly great, with no closure or answers.

^this  Its funny that I have been saying this again and again.  However, the naysayers seem to overlook this fact.

[Rip The Reaper]

I like the ending that wasn't in the game. The one where Shepard detroys the reapers, and EDI and possibly geth too give hope that maybe the cycle of chaos can be broken.

I mean what the hell? Why didn't they at least throw that in our faces at the end even iof it wasn't an option like shepars should have some dialog for that..."But the geth..And EDI...There a chance to stop it all...we can live in peace together!! (turns right)"

[Fair34]

I know I didn't.

It felt contrived and smacked of arrogance and lazy writing. Shepard could have died and I'd have been fine with it but not like this. This was nowhere near the closure that was promised us.

[Faraborne]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

I've been spoiling myself as more videos of the variations of the endings become available. My opinion of the endings is changing, now that I'm able to see the nuances between the permutations... I can't say I'm liking them yet (I have yet to see a truly good ending yet) but I think I'm starting to understand.
Before I go on, I also want to clear the air with the ridiculous notion that a happy 'Hollywood' ending is wrong for a 'Dark Sci-Fi' like Mass Effect... Mass Effect IS a Hollywood movie. A Hollywood saga if you will. ME 1, 2 & 3 all have deliberate homages to camp and Hollywood cliche. ME1 heavily referenced the aesthetic of classic sci-fi, which was in large part optimistic and light. ME2 basically followed the mode of a "Dirty Dozen" / "Ocean's 11 / Italian Job" type 'heist' flick, hence the theme "Fight for the Lost" (ie: steal/"win back" those the Collectors had taken), granted it had to work under the backdrop of an impending Reaper invasion. ME3 is a synthesis of the previous two, and actually closely follows the latter plot of Babylon 5. Basically the only thing that's truly dark in Mass Effect is the Reapers... that in itself just makes it a space opera... like Bab5, not say.. WH40k (where everyone is evil and everything is bad) or Cthulthu Mythos (where even Cthulthu the "Reaper" is really just another hapless soul in a nihilistic, predatory cosmos). Anyway, the point is, ME just isn't that dark, and it really is a "Hollywood" saga. It has always had a strong theme of hope; that if one works hard enough for the right goals, there is always hope that things might just work out. Whether that's true IRL is irrelevant, because that's the way the story's been set up to be all this time.
ME3's endings are the only point where the story bucks this trend.

The endings seem to vary a bit in severity depending on your EMS and each of the 3 choices result in different things according to different levels of EMS. There are 17 permutations available, but the best one I've seen is still terrible (maxed EMS, maxed Readiness, maxed 'people' Assets ie: all survivors from ME1-3, but probably not NG+). No one has gotten the "4th choice", but that seems to be the only hope for a proper good ending.
Frankly, ATM I feel the 17 endings are too hard for a single person to differentiate and comprehend, as to do so would take at least 17 b2b PTs, which is insane... Even the alleged 18th ending would require at least 2 PTs, assuming a perfect completionist import from the past 2 games... Because the 17 'easy' endings are so dissatisfying - even bitter in some cases, IDK how BW expects any substantial number of us to actually play through enough time to get the one good ending that we don't even know exists.
ATM I'm still at a loss as to what BW was thinking when they setup ME3's finale. All I know is that if a 4th option really exists, then it has to address the glaring logical fallacy in the Catalyst's reasoning. Legion (and by natural extension the 'True' Geth) and EDI (who is part Reaper) AND Shepard (who is implied to be at least heavily cybernetic, if not part Reaper) stand as hard evidence in contrary to the Catalyst's main premise and MO. Not to mention, each ending doesn't just conclude Shepard's story, but basically abolishes the key element of the ME Universe as well (despite BWs suggestion that the ME Universe would go on without him/her). For me, these are major serious sticking points that make me wonder how anyone can walk away satisfied with this game. Yet without knowing BWs plans for future DLC, it remains to be seen whether fans of the series will get what they really deserve out of this game.

Very well written.  The biggest problem with the ending was that it is out of place in the Mass Effect universe.  You are absolutely right in saying that Mass Effect is not a dark sci-fi, its a space opera (that's how all three have been advertised for pete's sake).  If people want dark sci-fi, I can point them to plenty of dark sci-fi that is far superior to the Mass Effect universe as dark sci-fi.  The majority of Mass Effect fans rightly recognize that Mass Effect is not dark sci-fi but space opera and deserves a fitting conclusion.  And by fitting conclusion I do not mean rainbows and unicorns.

[Ianamus]

The amusing this is Bioware has managed to ****** of almost everyone. 

• There are people who hate that there's no "happy" ending

• There are people who hate that there's no "Reapers win" ending

• There are people who like the dark tone but hate how the Normandy was handled

• There are people who love how dark it is and how the Normandy was handled but hate how badly written the endings are

• There are people (like me) who hate all of the above.

Honestly, they couldn't have made a worse ending to the series if they tried, ar angered more people if they tried. 

Modifié par EJ107, 09 mars 2012 - 08:45 .

[humes spork]

I liked the endings, I just wish they were more a consequence of your previous choices and not just Little Kid Bob Barker showing up at the last minute and saying "congratulations, Shinji Shepard! Now choose your ending!".

[Dragoni89]

EJ107 wrote...

The amusing this is Bioware has managed to ****** of almost everyone. 

• There are people who hate that there's no "happy" ending

• There are people who hate that there's no "Reapers win" ending

• There are people who like the dark tone but hate how the Normandy was handled

• There are people who love how dark it is and how the Normandy was handled but hate how badly written the endings are

• There are people (like me) who hate all of the above.

Honestly, they couldn't have made a worse ending to the series if they tried, ar angered more people if they tried. 

[*]I approve this post

[Storenumber9]

EJ107 wrote...

The amusing this is Bioware has managed to ****** of almost everyone. 

• There are people who hate that there's no "happy" ending

• There are people who hate that there's no "Reapers win" ending

• There are people who like the dark tone but hate how the Normandy was handled

• There are people who love how dark it is and how the Normandy was handled but hate how badly written the endings are

• There are people (like me) who hate all of the above.

Honestly, they couldn't have made a worse ending to the series if they tried, ar angered more people if they tried. 

[*]Add to that the amount of people who felt like their choices never mattered.

[Faraborne]

EJ107 wrote...

The amusing this is Bioware has managed to ****** of almost everyone. 

• There are people who hate that there's no "happy" ending

• There are people who hate that there's no "Reapers win" ending

• There are people who like the dark tone but hate how the Normandy was handled

• There are people who love how dark it is and how the Normandy was handled but hate how badly written the endings are

• There are people (like me) who hate all of the above.

Honestly, they couldn't have made a worse ending to the series if they tried, ar angered more people if they tried. 

^this

[*]

[Xellith]

Making this made me feel slightly better.

Modifié par Xellith, 09 mars 2012 - 08:52 .

[Rain Island]

In spite of the flaws mentioned above (out of place, no closure, no choices...), another fatal flaw is that the ending makes all former efforts pointless. No matter what we did and who we developed friendship with in the past 5 years, things all come to nothing in the end. That's extremely discouraging, especially to those who have been following Bioware for so long.
I probably will have an easier time accepting the ending as merely "bad" instead of "destructive" if I had only played ME3. But no, many of us spend a considerable portion of our lives into the ME universe, too much to see it ends pointlessly.

[OblivionDawn]

EJ107 wrote...

The amusing this is Bioware has managed to ****** of almost everyone. 

• There are people who hate that there's no "happy" ending

• There are people who hate that there's no "Reapers win" ending

• There are people who like the dark tone but hate how the Normandy was handled

• There are people who love how dark it is and how the Normandy was handled but hate how badly written the endings are

• There are people (like me) who hate all of the above.

Honestly, they couldn't have made a worse ending to the series if they tried, ar angered more people if they tried. 

Not true. They could have made the entire series the dream of an autistic child. But at least that would have made more sense.

[Sanguine]

I see people saying that they like the ending, and saying because it's 'deep' and 'metaphorical' and such. But can anyone give me like, a well thought out response? Why is it deep to you, what metaphors are you seeing?

preferably without putting me in the 'sunshine and rainbows' category, or insulting my intelligence level because I 'just don't get it'

[Beldamon]

You'll never get me to apologize for wanting at least the option of a genuinely satisfying ending -- which none of the options presented to me offered. My choices both seemed to be a hard reset to the stone age, and no real explanation as to why Sheppard accepted that that was the only choice.

I enjoy science fiction for the advanced technology and forcing people to give it up to satisfy some presupposition that it will turn on us by default is very unsatisfying.

More unsatisfying is that the series has been about how choices matter and in the end, none of our choices mattered.

I play games and read to have a little escape from reality. If I want to be depressed, I will pick up a newspaper. There was nothing even remotely thought provoking about how the story ended.

Labelling me with my little ponies does not change that.