178 réponses à ce sujet

[KodiakAsh]

The three ending choices weren't that bad in my opinion. Paragon he sacrifices himself. Renegade kills everything (and might survive). Synthesis choice kinda adds an interesting twist to the predictible choices.

Where my beef comes in is the finality of the destruction of the Mass Relays. It's completely a Pyrrhic victory no matter what you choose. Without the Mass Relays, the entire Universe is basically disconnected from each other and back to square one before they even went out into the stars. That's not even taking into account that you just took a huge portion of the universe's population in the fleet and stranded them all into one system. Hooray I saved the galaxy...and doomed it to a lonely existence. "Yaaaay"

So why all the hate? It's pretty simple. No one likes a game they can't win.

PS: I also found it annoying that Jarvik gave away the entire plot of the game when talking about organic vs synthetic life. Kinda ruined most of the plot that was clearly headed in that direction.

[Biotic Sage]

Tartilus wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm not being contrary. I loved the ending. I couldn't believe my eyes coming to this forum to take a look around when i saw all the hate. I thought it was one of the most poignant and appropriate finales for the greatest sci fi trilogy of all time.  This is coming from a fan of the series since the very first game, someone with 9 Shepards and someone who has obsessed over the lore, story, and characters.

My response to your question OP would be another question:
Does anyone truly hate the ending and is not just going along with the hive mentality? Has anyone even stopped to personally reflect and form their own opinions before diving into the reactionary flames of the BSN?  I mean really stopped, taken a breath, and let it sink in for more than a couple minutes or hours.  It was that heavy.  It deserves reflection.  Many people can't let go of the status quo, and many people want to see plot holes because of this fact when really there are none if you paid close attention and really thought about it.  OTHER than the fact that some squadmates are on the Normandy at the end...that requires better editing and context, or it is a glitch.

The 'Hive Mentality' might be a slightly more convincing argument if many of us hadn't come to these forums for the express purpose of vocalizing our displeasure as regards the ending.

I think we've already established that you were looking for something out of the endings that is different from what most people wanted. That's fine, but you need to stop acting like you have some more refined or enlightened interpretation of events; as if you've attained some understanding which sweeps aside what otherwise appear to be plotholes and lazy writing. You got something different out of the game then we were even looking for, and that it evoked in you the satisfaction we also crave is almost irrelevent. You are not furthering the discourse on this forum with your attempts to convince us that we need to take some extremely philosophical view of the ending. I'm happy that you're happy, but that neither makes you right, us wrong, or the ending acceptable.

I'm voicing an opinion like you...so I'm not sure how I'm acting "refined" or "enlightened" or superior in any way unless you consider yourself doing the exact same thing...

And I'm allowed to take slight offense to the OPs accusation that anyone who likes the ending is simply a "contrarion," just as I am allowed to voice that offense with a snide rhetorical question.

[lasertank]

Bad story telling. Bad logic. A dark ending does not rationalize it.

[Tartilus]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Tartilus wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm not being contrary. I loved the ending. I couldn't believe my eyes coming to this forum to take a look around when i saw all the hate. I thought it was one of the most poignant and appropriate finales for the greatest sci fi trilogy of all time.  This is coming from a fan of the series since the very first game, someone with 9 Shepards and someone who has obsessed over the lore, story, and characters.

My response to your question OP would be another question:
Does anyone truly hate the ending and is not just going along with the hive mentality? Has anyone even stopped to personally reflect and form their own opinions before diving into the reactionary flames of the BSN?  I mean really stopped, taken a breath, and let it sink in for more than a couple minutes or hours.  It was that heavy.  It deserves reflection.  Many people can't let go of the status quo, and many people want to see plot holes because of this fact when really there are none if you paid close attention and really thought about it.  OTHER than the fact that some squadmates are on the Normandy at the end...that requires better editing and context, or it is a glitch.

The 'Hive Mentality' might be a slightly more convincing argument if many of us hadn't come to these forums for the express purpose of vocalizing our displeasure as regards the ending.

I think we've already established that you were looking for something out of the endings that is different from what most people wanted. That's fine, but you need to stop acting like you have some more refined or enlightened interpretation of events; as if you've attained some understanding which sweeps aside what otherwise appear to be plotholes and lazy writing. You got something different out of the game then we were even looking for, and that it evoked in you the satisfaction we also crave is almost irrelevent. You are not furthering the discourse on this forum with your attempts to convince us that we need to take some extremely philosophical view of the ending. I'm happy that you're happy, but that neither makes you right, us wrong, or the ending acceptable.

I'm voicing an opinion like you...so I'm not sure how I'm acting "refined" or "enlightened" or superior in any way unless you consider yourself doing the exact same thing...

And I'm allowed to take slight offense to the OPs accusation that anyone who likes the ending is simply a "contrarion," just as I am allowed to voice that offense with a snide rhetorical question.

The difference is that I'm not suggesting that your opinion is a result of insufficient reflection and consideration. I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that you can enjoy the ending, and many other people could not, because the matter is (mostly) subjective.

[Psychoeva02]

Really liked the singularity ending, but I'm a big fan of cyberpunk.

[samoht_okpoh]

Only the execution of the endings annoyed me, but I've come to expect that from Bioware RPGs. I think that they're rather good at railroading you without it being blatant, right until the end.

[Nineteen]

My first choice was Synthesis, and I loved it. Went back and did the other two, and they make sense. Destruction, peace, or unity. The Synthesis ending also screams "science fiction," even though the Destroy option is more "Mass Effect." (Shepard has been fighting for three years to destroy the Reapers, after all.) Also going back and doing all three endings, plus Synthesis again, I have to say that the music fits Synthesis really well. It's like the music is building up to a big reveal of a future with new synthetic/organic life.

[sorentoft]

The reason I do not like the ending is because it renders everything you have done throughout the game pointless. I do not like it because we lack interaction with Harbinger. I do not like it because it is leaves more questions than answers, which is especially bad for a trilogy. But I do like parts of it. The ground assault was very cool, so was the fleets warping in to fight the Reapers, I just wish they had more focus on an actual battle rather than "Let's talk to a kid and rewrite the Galaxy". Seriously not cool.

[Michael177]

Honestly... I love the endings as well, It did remind me to Deus ex (which is now my joint favourite game of all time) Which is probably why I enjoyed it so much....

Honestly, I did like it though, I think here's the thing about hte internet, The Angry people have the loudest voice, but the people who love the game keep quiet. It's normally how these things go

[Biotic Sage]

Tartilus wrote...

The difference is that I'm not suggesting that your opinion is a result of insufficient reflection and consideration. I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that you can enjoy the ending, and many other people could not, because the matter is (mostly) subjective.

Look, like you said, enjoyment is subjective.  But I can still argue that the ending was objectively spot on with the Mass Effect trilogy, just like you can argue that it wasn't.  I think there are objective rules and truths to good storytelling and within those parameters the entire Mass Effect trilogy, including the ending, met all of them for me.

I was only addressing the OP with my rhetorical comment about "reflection," bringing up the flipside to his "contrarion" remark.  I'm not putting you down because you didn't enjoy the ending, that wasn't my intention.  Obviously you have a different ideology regarding good storytelling and the ending didn't work for your own framework.

[Heretic19]

My ending was pretty damn disney. Normandy crew lived. Shep lived. Goddam galactic fleet is going to live together in the same system. I'm sure they can find a way to get back into space. Future DLC anyone? My only gripe is the very last cutscene between the two terribly voiced characters. It was completely beyond retarded and I'm going to pretend that I never saw it. Oh, also the stupid fact that you blatantly CHOOSE your ending. But besides that.. I feel very satisfied and excited for the future of the series (if there is indeed one).

[thoaloa]

Synthesis maybe a scifi subject but emitting it through a green explosion is not sci-fi anymore.
At best all life the galaxy would die from a botched attempt to merge a single human cybernetics with a tree/fish/jellyfish/etc... across the entire galaxy and how exactly does a energy pulse do all that.

It one thing for it to blow stuff up or "communicate" something, but to alter all life in the galaxy to ensure no matter what no pure organic lifeforms will ever exist is wishful thinking. Not to mention cybernetic bacteria? (If you don't convert everything at some point organic life will pop back up and what they wipe them out to prevent any cycles from happening?????)

[Ylhaym]

My first impression of the ending was... "meh... its alright... not bad but not that good "...
The execution was not that good and the Normandy with the crew escaping Sol was a WTF moment. I really want to know more what happened after the battle for earth.

Then started to think about the Stargazer telling the legend of Shepard to the child... Now i can't stop thinking it. The more i think about it the more im liking it...Now i want to know more about the "present" Mass Effect Universe(Stargazer and the child). What kind of life do they have? What is the situation of other races in other parts of the galaxy? What's the long term effect of the destruction of Mass Relays to the society? Are most star systems still isolated from each other or have they started to create a new galactic community? It makes really makes you think...

I'm now looking forward to the next ME game assuming it takes place during the "present" time...

Modifié par Ylhaym, 10 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[Charsi]

If shepard survived, what happen to him/her?
What happen to the crew?
What happen to all species??? Well mass relays explode, and they all traped on sol around earth, and the planet dont have place to put them all!!

The ends suck big time, nothing was explain just left more questions!!!

Modifié par Charsi, 10 mars 2012 - 11:25 .

[Cirreus]

I've been coming to the conclusion that it's not the ending, but the entire game that's a rotten apple. It's starts right at the begining of the game with Earth & Mars. Who is that kid ? Who's he related to ? Was Shepard mentoring him or his family ? Why isn't Anderson running the council anymore ? What's his history with London (other than birthplace) Why is Dr. Eva has zero plot except to provide EDI with a body ? The list goes on & on & one . Why does this game assume I've read & explored all the books & comics & know all the backstory that isn't in ME1 & 2? When the end comes, most of the rose glasses fall off.

I think many people here defending the quality of Mass Effect 3 are not invested in the story (e.g. don't care), don't want to admit there finacial investment is worth less than before, or don't understand what the difference is between good & bad taste.

Someone may say White Zinfandel tastes good, but that doesn't mean they have good taste in wine. Same goes for Mass Effect 3. It can be rationalized why the endings are good or bad, but that's irrelevant to the fact the EA/Bioware sold a product at AAA price & promise, yet delievered only D+ game.

[hawat333]

I love the endings. Really, really much. It's bittersweet, and if you play the cards right, you can get your people to live, even Shepard, which was a surprise.
I do not like the fate of the Normandy though.
It didn't make sense.
Why was it escaping through a relay in the first place? They were there at Earth, the only possible explanation for being en route is that they tried to escape. But if they did, why? That made no sense, there was no point in fleeing.
Ash was with me at the final charge. So she is either dead like all the others or lying around there, badly wounded.
How did she get on the Normandy, what did she do in the ending?
The whole scene is not logical. Emotionally engaging, yeah, but it doesn't make sense.

I think that screams of one possilbe ending being a placeholder for different variations - different varioations that were never completed.
I'd very much like to see it being fixed, remedied somehow, via DLC or cpatial ship - sized patch, I don't care.
But it leaves the otherwise spectacularly awesome ending crippled.

For the time being I ignore the scene, I say to myself that it was crashed on Earth.

[realpokerjedi]

I don't think, wanting to cut the god kid out of the game and forcing Shepard to manually (or a ally) set off the crucible, which destroys it and kills the person involved.
Really counts as Disney or Unicorn power.
Believe it or not, if you played the other games perfect, given a few bumps, the others in the series did offer a perfect ending if you played it that way.
Dark Science fiction you say? How is everyone surviving a suicide mission if you play it correctly in Mass Effect 2 count? Because people were processed? They showed dead bodies?
That's when people will thow in how Mass Effect 1 was better and somehow Mass Effect 2 being cut out makes 3 better.
Yes Kaiden or Ashley dies, but you battle a reaper and a master spector on the citdel and nobody dies there either.
I can't consider that dark science fiction either, not even close.
Mass effect, always gave some players the option, for victory, like those in the first two games.
People weren't wrong in expecting they would get it again.
Dark Science fiction? That had to be a troll.
I guess it is a Dark Science fiction, if you consider the star wars films, and Tranformers films to be as well.

Modifié par realpokerjedi, 10 mars 2012 - 12:13 .

[Hexxys]

Michael177 wrote...

Honestly... I love the endings as well, It did remind me to Deus ex (which is now my joint favourite game of all time) Which is probably why I enjoyed it so much....

Honestly, I did like it though, I think here's the thing about hte internet, The Angry people have the loudest voice, but the people who love the game keep quiet. It's normally how these things go

It probably reminded you of Deus Ex because the exact same thing happened.  Lol.

[Dresden867]

My only real "wha?" with the ending is the various "what the hell, who's on the Normandy now?" questions people have been asking.

Overall, I felt like it was pretty solid. Wish I'd known on this first playthrough that one of the paragade shots I needed at TIM was on -MARS- though. Little late to fix that one in the final confrontation!

[Biotic Sage]

Dresden867 wrote...

My only real "wha?" with the ending is the various "what the hell, who's on the Normandy now?" questions people have been asking.

Overall, I felt like it was pretty solid. Wish I'd known on this first playthrough that one of the paragade shots I needed at TIM was on -MARS- though. Little late to fix that one in the final confrontation!

The "what the hell who's on the Normandy now" is really the only issue with the ending for me as well.  There needed to be better editing which shows some context...or the glitch needed to be fixed.  Whichever was the cause.

[zr0iq]

I like them, they are okay.

The only con point to them it doesn't feel like an ending at all. That is what makes me dissatisfied.

[mjh417]

The endings are terrible. It really makes no sense and from my point of view its even worse because it ignores what Mass Effect is actually about and tries to make this whole scenario about one small piece of it and frame it in a way that runs completely contrary to what happened in the game and kills the whole truly philosophically interesting ideas with lesser ones that don't fit. But then the actual result of it all does get back to the heart of the philosophical conundrum and then completely forces a conclusion for it down our throats and leaves our hero and us powerless to really think or say or do anything about it.

Let me explain. Remember the conversations with Legion???? The actual end of ME2. The conversations with Sovereign, Vigil, and Harbinger. Especially with all the brilliance and thought provoking material that came from Legion in ME2, it felt like the writers really understood what the series was about and what the Reapers were about. It actually still managed to feel that way through out ME3 until the final minutes.

Mass Effect should be about the Mass Effect tech and what that means for both organics ans synthetics. It was never about organics versus synthetics, except in the Geth/Quarian SUBPLOT because The Reapers are NOT simply machines, they are "sapient constructs." They exist as a way of perserving all organic life by synthesizing it in machine form and creating a single intelligence from "many minds" but those minds are organic. The huskification process is simply a more grim and brutal and less refined version of the process used to create and actual Reaper.

If the dilema is about Mass Effect tech, something that comes from the Reapers, that it is something that pertains to organic life just as much if not far more that synthetics. Organics war with other organics and they can just as easily destroy each other on their own. Just look at the Krogan Rebellions and Rachni War. Both of which came from using tech that was not built but found. This is what Mass Effect is actually about. "You evolve along the pathways we desire" as Sovereign says. Later Legion talks about the fundamental difference between the true Geth and the Heretics is that the true Geth reject the Old Machine's gifts and chose to find their own ways, "Geth must build their own future." THIS IS WHAT ME IS ABOUT!!!!! Organics and Geth or any AI, anything with intelligence ultimately face the same issue. The cycle exists because we ALL fall into the same trap, we use the tech of those left behind rather than develop our own. The Repars can harvest us because we evolved along the paths they designed for us. They are the reason there is a cycle.

The catalyst's explanations ring completely and VERY OBVIOUSLY false to everything except to him (or it) self. He even admits that Shep's mere presence proves he is wrong but his new solutions are EVEN WORSE and make no sense. They do destroy the Mass Relays, but it does so as it its some "after effect" a bizarre consequence, rather than the whole point. Even worse is that the way this happens, in both choices, essentially means an apocalypse for the galactic civilization we know in way that is FAR WORSE than if we waged the war with the reapers for another 400 years. Shep didn't save a dang thing. He ended the cycle (apparently) but all the popel he was fighting for are ven more doomed now than they were before he listened to some idiotic VI. Both choices are the same, whatever their difference is, its nonsensical, meaningless, dumb, and again WAY beyond the point of everything. Mass Effect is not about organic versus synthetics, it never was until the catalyst tried to tell me it was and even then I had so much ammunition to prove him wrong that it was just sad.

Seriously, how are The Reapers a solution to some inevitable annihilation of organics by synthetics? Does that make any sense??? Not only does it not make sense with everything that has ever been said of happened in the 3 games, but it doesn't make any sense on its own.

I know there have been countless cycles before this one, but lets look at this one closely. The only AI or synthetic threat ever presented (besides The Reapers themselves) is the Geth. The Geth were made by the Quarians over 300 years before the games begin. The first war with the Geth left the Quarians homeless but still alive and kicking. Through the rest of the cycle, before and after, not a SINGLE OTHER INTELLIGENT SPECIES WE KNOW OF EVER HAD A WAR WITH AI. But wait, it get even better. THE ONLY REASON THE GETH EVER REAPPEARED TO ORGANICS TO WAGE WAR WAS BECAUSE THE REAPERS ASKED THEM TO.

Now Javik says that The Protheans had their won war with machines, but from what I understood, the organics WON... end of story and that was before The Reapers came along to harvest them. SO same point as before applies, the Reapers dont save organics from destruction by synthetics. In fact its simply the opposite, the Reapers destroy advanced organics and harvest them into synthetic Reaper bodies.

So my point is this whole cycle organics vs. synthetics logic comes out of nowhere and makes no sense with everything before it. Mass Effect is not a carbon copy of the Battlestar Galactica reboot. I mean i felt like the ending was trying to pretend that that it was when really Mass Effect is a very different story about very different things (even if ME is BSG influenced, but its also Star Wars and Star Trek and Aliens influenced). In BSG the show had set its self up right from the very start as being about a cycle of never-ending conflict and new beginnings between creators and the created and so that end made sense, and unlike ME it actually was emotionally satisfying on most levels and gave the characters what they were deserved. ME3's end was anything but that.

Now The Catalyst also talks about cleansing older and more advanced civilizations to make room for new ones. This idea makes a lot more sense, but tis still flawed and full of holes and comes out of nowhere.

Now to me the Crucible itself is a fascinating idea with the exception of its use in the final few minutes. This is especially true if you agree with me on what Mass Effect is actually about philosophically, that its about developing and relying own your own tech versus inheriting and depending on discovered tech. You see as far as we know, The Crucible does not come from The Reapers, but its not of our own design either. It was inherited from The Protheans (hey remember how everyone used to think thats who built and left behind the Mass Relays and Citadel???) and then it turns out that they inherited from those who came before them and that its been slowly designed a little more and more each cycle. This is fascinating. What the Crucible is and what it does and should it be used and will it work and what will it actually happen if its used is a mystery that is very well established and developed and discussed through out the game. It fit so perfectly with what the series is about and it could and should have been the center piece of the end. It was... but it was als not. It wasn't really explained other than it "changed" the Catalyst and offered new solutions, solutions that were arguably easily worse than letting the cycle continue.

Now I know many were not fans of The Matrix sequels, I personally think they are lacking and even boring, as "movies" but in terms of continuing the philosophy and story established in the original (a fantastic and amazing film), the sequels really delivered. I think it should be obvious the similarities and parallells between ME and Matrix trilogy with regards to the events of ME3's ending and the climax of The Matrix Reloaded. The Catalyst is The Architect, Shep is Neo, The Crucible's link to the Citadel is The Source, and their meeting is an unexpected and mind bending twist to what both Shep and Neo assumed would be the end of their fight, organic life in a war with destructive machines and their ultimate victory. Now I could go on and on outlining all the ways these franchises are similar and how their different and so forth, what their philosophies mean and works about them, but thats not the point. The point is "choice" a word very key to both stories. In The Matrix Reloaded, Neo learns the truth about this war with the machines and is given a choice by the architect, he is not the first to be stand there and meet The Architect, in fact it is part of the cycle, but he is the first to be given a "choice," an anomaly resulting from The Oracle's introduction of a love interest for The One, a choice to instead of serving his predefined purpose to serve humanity by rebooting and continuing and beginning a new cycle, he can chose another door and not reboot the system at the consequence of The Machines destroying Zion and eventually the entire Matrix crashing effectively killing everyone. Neo makes that choice opening the door to doing something unknowable and unpredictable to The Architect and leads to the events of The Matrix Revolutions, and ultimately an ending in which Neo breaks the cycle by sacrificing himself and saving the Matrix, the machines, and liberating humanity.

Now in comparison, in ME3, Shep is the first to stand at this place on the Citadel, meet The Catalyst, and be given a choice. The problem is that these choices are silly and come from The Catalyst. There may be a choice, but it would be the same as if The Architect meet Neo and there was only one door as it had been in previous cycles. This is because its playing into the AI's games, playing by its rules, the hero doing something he or she doesn't understand cause the AI in charge told it to do so. Something that makes the entire journey irrelevant and foolish.

Now I dont think a fix ME3 ending should copy The Matrix sequels, at least not any more than it already does. See the main problem I have with the ME3 endings ultimately is that they are entirely emotionally unsatisfying and actually they are a full on F**k You to the player and Shepard and the entire galaxy. With the Mass Relays destroyed, and all the high level species of the Galaxy's military might now trapped on a ravaged Earth, all hope is lost and everyone is trapped. Everything Shep did to unite them and fix their problems, like the genophage, and inspire hope, was for nothing. Shep didn't save anyone. His sacrifice was for nothing. It ended the Reaper threat and the cycle but it destroyed the world of his present and doomed his entire civilization. And this all happened cause he listend to some VI, whom not only clearly did not have his best interests in mind, but also was wrong about everything it said. Neo called The Architect on his bull and in the end proved him wrong, its travesty that Shep didn't do the same.

Until Bioware makes DLC that offers an end with a totally rewritten encounter with the Catalyst and that re-contextualizes the purpose of The Citadel, The Reapers, The Catalyst, and The Crucible, and offers new choices, I will not consider the final 10 minutes of the game, after you rise on that platform, to be canon.

[absolutlegend37]

I COMPLETELY agree with thisisme8

I thought the ending was perfect for what they had set up (I went with the synthesis one). It just all came together really well. I feel so deeply emotionally attached to all of the characters and to have such an epic conclusion really solidified the experience for me.

I hope that Bioware continues to make such great games. They have always been a fantastic developer and continuously seem to out do themselves.

Fan for life!!!

thisisme8 wrote...

I thought the ending was perfect. The whole ride was amazing. I really can't say how awesome I think it all was. Such an emotional roller-coaster too. Ugh... it doesn't get any better.

[hawat333]

Did I already state here that I do?
If I didn't, here I come.
I do like the endings.
Honest to the Reapers or the Catalyst, whoever you desire.
I like them.

Come on, you ought to like Deus Ex endings.