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#1
ZX12r Ninja

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It seems in this day and age of mindless shooters like Duke Nukem and Serious Sam people don't seem to appriciate a good story anymore. People somehow come to expect that everything in a game leads upto a final boss fight and everything ends in a big climax orgy of some sorts. It's unbelievable how many people complain about the eding... the ending this, the ending that.

We've seen the same thing during the "From Ashes" discussion, the problem isn't the game or the ending or the graphics or the content. The problem is people expecting the wrong things and don't know how to appriciate or understand a good story. It's been said over and over again that this is the end of a trilogy, they're not going to explore the details of the galaxy anymore. We know about the Protheans, we know about the Reapers (well some unknowns there) and we know about the cycle.

Shepard is the main antogonist of the story, he's the hero, this is his story. It's not about the Protheans, it's not about the Reapers, infact it's said straightup in the ending, this is about the legend of Shepard and his legacy. The way he sacrificed himself to save humanity and give the galaxy a second chance todo things right. The way he proved that the AI on the citadel was wrong and proved that synthetics and organics can live and co-exist together. The way he showed everybody with the Geth and EDI the way it's supposed to be done and then sacrificed himself so everybody could get a chance to do it properly.

The whole comparison with ME2 is also nonsense. The whole issue with the graphics. But I need better graphics! Yeh okay, why do you need it? Does it give you a better story? Everybody who plays games should know by now that when a game producer starts concentrating on thechnical side issues then they don't have anything better to sell anymore and they're just selling you a gaming engine or a new gameplay feature instead of a game you want. It's admirable that Bioware, in this day and age of high res graphics on games with no real value at all, dares to say that gaming isn't about high tech feats but it's about the gaming experience itself. In all the dicussions and comparisons with ME1 and 2 I have never seen anybody mention the fact that the choice system in ME3 just blows everything away! In ME1 and 2 the choices were simple, you are either good or bad and it was easy to see which answer was good or bad. Apart from a minor issues here and there you didn't really feel the consequences of your choices. Picking Udina or Anderson never really was an issue, saving the council or letting them die didn't really have any effects. Now in ME3 you feel those consequences and you feel those effects.

The renegade options aren't as easy anymore and neither are the paragon options. You can chose to gun down somebody execution style to save a friend.

The choices you are presented with aren't as easy anymore and for once the choice made me think about possible consequences. In my first playthrough it wasn't an easy pick anymore. Do I wan't the Geth or the Quarians and what effects is this goign to have on the final fight? The Geth platforms are obvious fighters and their military strength and strategies are unmatched, that is what I need. But on the other hand I have the Quarians and Tali my friend, I can't let them down. What do I pick? The game is full of choices like this one, hard choices which can't be defined as good or bad (paragon or renegade) and have immidiate consequences beyond your control.

In the game it's shown that nothing is black or white. Nothing can be defined as good or bad. Everybody believes in something and everybody fights for something but everybody does this on his or her own way.  It is shown that things don't always come easy and that people always have other interests to look out for. When you goto the countil to ask for help it is expected that they send help because the Reapers are atacking earth but help is declined. Then you goto the Turian homeworld and you see that things are just as bad on the Turian homeworld and that it's understandable they don't send help immidiatly when they have a fight right at their own doorsteps too. Heck even things like the Reapers and Illusive man, who were thought to be the bad guys of the story, turn out to be good in some way. the Reapers do what they do because they think what they're doing is good for the galaxy overall. And the Illusive man, Shepard says it himself in his "dying moments": "So the Illusive mand was right after all". Okay, you might not agree with his methods but the guy was onto something, that for me just blew my mind away. There are no bad guys in this game!

I think it's a shame nobody is talking about these points and people just focus on the ending and the technical issues with the engine. I think it's sad that people can't appriciate a good story anymore just because it doesn't live upto their expectations of technical requirements or established story baseline needs. So sad.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 08 mars 2012 - 02:45 .


#2
WarBaby2

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...
I think it's a shame nobody is talking about these points and people just focus on the ending and the technical issues with the engine. I think it's sad that people can't appriciate a good story anymore just because it doesn't live upto their expectations of technical requirements or established story baseline needs. So sad.


Half way into the game, I whole heartedly agree.

#3
titusrsoooooo1337

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agreed 100%. Too many people expecting a hollywood story...

#4
LilyasAvalon

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I'm extremely sorry we actually expected more than three exactly the same, crappy endings...

But aside from that, you make excellent points.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 08 mars 2012 - 02:46 .


#5
Militarized

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I'm to emotionally drained to write another post explaining why these endings we're terrible... besides the fact that it makes your point about the hard choices literally meaningless.(just finished the game). These endings were atrocious, I'll edit this later and rebuttle I guess.

Modifié par Militarized, 08 mars 2012 - 02:49 .


#6
titusrsoooooo1337

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm extremely sorry we actually expected more than three exactly the same, crappy endings...


THIS is exactly what the point being made is about. While I do agree that there should have been some form of "good" ending, the endings that were given not only give closure to shepard's story, but reflect the mood and theme of the story exactly as it should. Having every ending finish off with "reaprz all dead hooray i get to bone mai waifu L.I. forevr n evr everyone iz saved!!!!11!" would be a REAL crappy ending.

#7
Zhriver

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We where not expecting a Hollywood story, the problem with the current ending is that it more or less tosses our choices through all 3 games down the ****ter and lets us pick which color we want to wipe out the galactic space faring capabilities with. As a bare minimum they could have shown us a few secs of our choices, perhaps like seeing Wrex with a child of his own.

Modifié par Zhriver, 08 mars 2012 - 02:52 .


#8
WarBaby2

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titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

THIS is exactly what the point being made is about. While I do agree that there should have been some form of "good" ending, the endings that were given not only give closure to shepard's story, but reflect the mood and theme of the story exactly as it should. Having every ending finish off with "reaprz all dead hooray i get to bone mai waifu L.I. forevr n evr everyone iz saved!!!!11!" would be a REAL crappy ending.


Following the discussion for days now, I don't think that's exactly what most people whant... but I, for one, am glad I spoiled the ending for myself beforehand.

I think the possible endings are ok, they just would need to be "expanded" somewhat... even if it's just a narrated and or picture epilogue, like BW did for DAO.

#9
ZX12r Ninja

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WarBaby2 wrote...
Following the discussion for days now, I don't think that's exactly what most people whant... but I, for one, am glad I spoiled the ending for myself beforehand.

I think the possible endings are ok, they just would need to be "expanded" somewhat... even if it's just a narrated and or picture epilogue, like BW did for DAO.


Yeah okay, that's something I can agree with, but what good would that do? What would it add to the story apart from the fact that you get a little more.

Something I hear a lot is: "What happened to the survivors". They obviously went on to rebuild society, what else do you need to know? EDI and Joker obviously didn't have kids but they proves love between synthetics and organics is possible. For the rest you can make up some story about how they lived hapilly every after but that doesn't add anything.

What happened to the Reapers and the Citadel? Well they're either destoryed or Shepard starts controlling them and becomes the shepherd of the galaxy.

It's really that simple and adding that wouldn't anything extra IMO.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 08 mars 2012 - 03:04 .


#10
LilyasAvalon

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titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm extremely sorry we actually expected more than three exactly the same, crappy endings...


THIS is exactly what the point being made is about. While I do agree that there should have been some form of "good" ending, the endings that were given not only give closure to shepard's story, but reflect the mood and theme of the story exactly as it should. Having every ending finish off with "reaprz all dead hooray i get to bone mai waifu L.I. forevr n evr everyone iz saved!!!!11!" would be a REAL crappy ending.

And who said we don't wish for that as well? It's not as if we're asking for everyone to come out alive, with no casualities or sacrifices in a typical rainbow, butterflies and unicorns fashion, but come on, is it so much to at least ask for Shepard's crew NOT to go play LOST?

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 08 mars 2012 - 03:04 .


#11
ZX12r Ninja

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LilyasAvalon wrote...
And who said we don't wish for that as well? It's not as if we're asking for everyone to come out alive, with no casualities or sacrifices in a typical rainbow, butterflies and unicorns fashion, but come on, is it so much to at least ask for Shepard's crew NOT to go play LOST?


The problem is people expecting the wrong things and don't know how to appriciate or understand a good story.



#12
WarBaby2

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...

It's really that simple and adding that wouldn't anything extra IMO.


Ok, so then what? The story as a whole can't be changed anymore...

#13
J5550123

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Militarized wrote...

I'm to emotionally drained to write another post explaining why these endings we're terrible... besides the fact that it makes your point about the hard choices literally meaningless.(just finished the game). These endings were atrocious, I'll edit this later and rebuttle I guess.


People have been talking about why they hate the endings all day, there's a whole thread about it even. Lol. Something is definitely not right with the endings if so many people are upset.

#14
Dragoni89

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@ZX12r Ninja
Take a look at this before you complain to the people are taking about the ending.
http://filesmelt.com...ist_of_copy.jpg

I agree story is more important. But there is no story in ME3. Humanity dies no matter what you do.

Let me sum it. If Shepard sacrifice of lives
Mass replays destroyed:
= korgon aren't going home, no in curing genophage, they are stuck are and can probably over run our systems
=qurian's aren't going home, no point in taking back there planet, no fuel even FTL to travel that far back, tali can't see her home world
=turian stuck on your planet

Shepard either dies or ends up in some random place. Die of old age and planet earth is still ****ed
Joker and crew mates lands on planet, no way to repopulate, end of the human race

Option 2 ending
Merge with the reaper =.= okay end of human race

So nothing we did could save the human race. Pointless sacrifices made by old crew mates and characters.
"Picking Udina or Anderson never really was an issue, saving the council or letting them die didn't really have any effects. Now in ME3 you feel those consequences and you feel those effects." Um what game you playing, we playing the same game? There is no consequence in ME3 Udina council traitor no matter what. All your choices and war assets mean jack to the ending.

"Do I wan't the Geth or the Quarians and what effects is this goign to have on the final fight? The Geth platforms are obvious fighters and their military strength and strategies are unmatched, that is what I need. But on the other hand I have the Quarians and Tali my friend, I can't let them down."

Um you can get both sides to have peace in Mass Effect 3 just need enough paragon. And its not very hard decision at all cause Legion dies either way, most ppl saved Tali. Legion has a reaper mind =.= okay whats the difference between the reaper and Geth now. Absolutly nothing.

Both ME1 and ME2 plot blows this one away instantly. Not to mention the lack of rpg elements. Ending was just god awful. I don't know what game you been playing.

#15
ZX12r Ninja

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WarBaby2 wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

It's really that simple and adding that wouldn't anything extra IMO.


Ok, so then what? The story as a whole can't be changed anymore...


Who said anything about changing? I just said it doesn't add to the main story, maybe they can explore the survivors or other espects in a DLC or a seperate book or maybe they'll leave it upto your imagination but the fact that you know they lived happily ever after and the knowing the details of that hapilly ever after doesn't add anything to Shepard's story. It doesn't change the fact that he sacrificed himself to save the galaxy.

#16
titusrsoooooo1337

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm extremely sorry we actually expected more than three exactly the same, crappy endings...


THIS is exactly what the point being made is about. While I do agree that there should have been some form of "good" ending, the endings that were given not only give closure to shepard's story, but reflect the mood and theme of the story exactly as it should. Having every ending finish off with "reaprz all dead hooray i get to bone mai waifu L.I. forevr n evr everyone iz saved!!!!11!" would be a REAL crappy ending.

And who said we don't wish for that as well? It's not as if we're asking for everyone to come out alive, with no casualities or sacrifices in a typical rainbow, butterflies and unicorns fashion, but come on, is it so much to at least ask for Shepard's crew NOT to go play LOST?


Because NOW you can give one easy payment of a blank check to bioware to play a DLC to find out what happens to those survivors!!

#17
WarBaby2

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titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...
Because NOW you can give one easy payment of a blank check to bioware to play a DLC to find out what happens to those survivors!!


Which I dobt, because it was stated numerous times that there will be no "post game" DLC.

#18
ZX12r Ninja

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Dragoni89 wrote...

@ZX12r Ninja
Take a look at this before you complain to the people are taking about the ending.
http://filesmelt.com...ist_of_copy.jpg


This is just nonsense and I don't know where people get it from. First off the landscape is just some generic winter landscape, they all look the same.

http://www.wallpaper...pe-800x600.html
http://www.ecoaa.ca/...terscape-00.jpg
http://beyondthematr...om/VH0M1726.jpg
http://images.worldg...ape--180517.jpg

I've looked for the image of women people claim Tali is based on and funny thing is that TinEye and Google Image Search don't have that picture in their index. That means the pictures was just recently introduced to the internet and apart from that one URL I can't seem to find it anywhere else. If it's a royalty free picture then you would be able to find it at other places too.

No need to get into the "Simpsons did it" kinda frenzy. By now just about every kind of story is explored and written, it's unavoidable that ME shares grounds with other games, books, movies. I'm sure if you look long enough you'll be able to find similar stories to Harry Potter or LOtR.

The dialog at the end is just their way of letting the player know what just happend and why the game jumped back to before the attack. Don't see why you're concentrating on just one dialog when it's preceded by an animation scene on planet x. The story is complete but we're jumping back so you can play any future DLC's that come out. This was a problem with ME1 DLC\\s if you remember and with ME2 they just left an open ending so you could play the DLC's. Now you have the problem that the sotry is complete so for any DLC you would have to replay the game. Also don't see the problem with DLC's if that's what is implied, DLC's are DLC's and not the main game. The ME2 (and 50% of the ME1 DLC's) delivered what they promised so bring on the DLC's!

And finally I don't knwo where that last picture of marketing came from but it's not part of any of the official BW/EA marketing or press material. Probably fanmade or made by a retailer. Can't blame BW or EA for that. Why is this a big deal anyway? Oh no the adverts look the same! Big whoop!

I agree story is more important. But there is no story in ME3. Humanity dies no matter what you do.

Let me sum it. If Shepard sacrifice of lives
Mass replays destroyed:
= korgon aren't going home, no in curing genophage, they are stuck are and can probably over run our systems
=qurian's aren't going home, no point in taking back there planet, no fuel even FTL to travel that far back, tali can't see her home world
=turian stuck on your planet

Shepard either dies or ends up in some random place. Die of old age and planet earth is still ****ed
Joker and crew mates lands on planet, no way to repopulate, end of the human race


You do know that the Mass Effect relays explode and that would mean everybody in the galaxy (apart from a few lucky survivors) dies, the shockware that causes the Normandy to crash would have destoryed the entire system, just like in the Arrival DLC. The point being here is that the galaxy is wiped for a second chance either with tech and Shepard watching over them or all tech is wiped out. Everything is reset so humanity can start over again. If you would say: "How many people were there on the Normady that they were able to repopulate a different planet". That's a valid question and in IMO a plothole but rest of the galaxy is just dead, but that's not the question being asked here......

Option 2 ending
Merge with the reaper =.= okay end of human race

So nothing we did could save the human race. Pointless sacrifices made by old crew mates and characters.
"Picking Udina or Anderson never really was an issue, saving the council or letting them die didn't really have any effects. Now in ME3 you feel those consequences and you feel those effects." Um what game you playing, we playing the same game? There is no consequence in ME3 Udina council traitor no matter what. All your choices and war assets mean jack to the ending.


Without the sacrifices Shepard would have never gotten to that point and humanity would have been wiped out anyway.  Mergig with the Reapers is an option you can take to ensure the further existance of the galaxy, not the best option but something you can pick and IMO better then being harvested by the Reapers and not having a say in the matter at all.

You can also look at it this way. The Reapers do what they do because they want to preserve organics and not let the galaxy get overrun by synthetics which wipe organics out. Having a organics/synthetics hybrid would solve this problem and would uplift the galaxy as a whole to a new level. Humanity would not exist as it is anymore but at some evelutionary point it would happen anyway. Heck the only thing keeping people from turning themselves into robots (like the Illusive man) is because of strict regulation and ban on certain types of research as seen in ME1. With available tech it can be done (6 million dollar man!!) and if the council would lift the ban and regulations people would start doing it.

"Do I wan't the Geth or the Quarians and what effects is this goign to have on the final fight? The Geth platforms are obvious fighters and their military strength and strategies are unmatched, that is what I need. But on the other hand I have the Quarians and Tali my friend, I can't let them down."

Um you can get both sides to have peace in Mass Effect 3 just need enough paragon. And its not very hard decision at all cause Legion dies either way, most ppl saved Tali. Legion has a reaper mind =.= okay whats the difference between the reaper and Geth now. Absolutly nothing.


I picked the Geth and if you do that the Geth are uplifted from being simple programs which run on a server to being fully selfaware individual units. It's also being said that Legion has Reaper software but as you can see that doesn't necesarilly make it a bad thing, because of the software he can function outside the concensus and almost has Human like emotions. i.e. Why did he pick Shepards N7 armor to repair "the hole".

Both ME1 and ME2 plot blows this one away instantly. Not to mention the lack of rpg elements. Ending was just god awful. I don't know what game you been playing.


That's you opinion.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 08 mars 2012 - 04:04 .


#19
ZX12r Ninja

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titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

Because NOW you can give one easy payment of a blank check to bioware to play a DLC to find out what happens to those survivors!!


You do know it was just a pointmade to illustrate the survivors are outside the main storyline right? Whether Bioware decides to make a DLC to explore this (which would make a very sucky DLC IMO) is upto them. But I'm guessing they'll leave that to our immaginations.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 08 mars 2012 - 03:51 .


#20
Dragoni89

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Sadly didn't wait five years for BIOware to tell me to go **** myself and imagine my own ending

#21
mastirkal

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Dragon has a very good point in the comment above mine, the problem isn't that the game is bad, but why the **** can't I choose to have a good ending over a bitter sweet one for MY Shepard. instead of giving me 3 depressing ones that are all the same besides a few word choices lol

#22
laughing sherpa girl

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Ummm.. not meaning to pick a bone or anything buttt..,
ZX12R Ninja, i think your a tiny bit confused. The reapers harvest advanced races as they proclaim that advanced races represent chaos, while the reapers ( and that creepy lil kid running the show ) represent order.
Like I wrote elsewhere. I've buried my entire real life family and aint got that long myself. I'm sick of thinking about bitter sweet endings as you call them. Theres nothing sweet about it. There's no closure. Shep, Liara mordin tali, Ash, everybody, is dead and gone.. period. OH, and you kill them.. and you think thats a good ending?? I do believe i have to disagree.. If it makes you sad, or angry, how is that fun?? you want a sad ending?? Read a book or go see a movie.

#23
ZX12r Ninja

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laughing sherpa girl wrote...

Ummm.. not meaning to pick a bone or anything buttt..,
ZX12R Ninja, i think your a tiny bit confused. The reapers harvest advanced races as they proclaim that advanced races represent chaos, while the reapers ( and that creepy lil kid running the show ) represent order.


Yes as it's explained by the AI on the Citadel the Reapers believe they're bringing order to the universe by not allowing civilisations to advance beyond a specific state. They believe they represent order and us choas but it doesn't make it so. As the AI says it himself, this was the only way of thinking and the only option open to it but the Crucibel opened other options, it says the old way of thinking doesn't work anymore and thus it's safe to assume that it took higher regard of organic life and allowed Shepard to decide. It didn't think of the situation as a simple order/chaos sollution anymore.

Like I wrote elsewhere. I've buried my entire real life family and aint got that long myself. I'm sick of thinking about bitter sweet endings as you call them. Theres nothing sweet about it. There's no closure. Shep, Liara mordin tali, Ash, everybody, is dead and gone.. period. OH, and you kill them.. and you think thats a good ending?? I do believe i have to disagree.. If it makes you sad, or angry, how is that fun?? you want a sad ending?? Read a book or go see a movie.


Why is it a book or a movie can have such an ending but not a game? What makes it different? Like I said in my first sentence, why do you expect the Doom, Serious Sam, Duke Nukem. etc. baseline of bad guy killed -> everything back to normal ending?

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 08 mars 2012 - 06:26 .


#24
Gold Dragon

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mastirkal wrote...

Dragon has a very good point in the comment above mine, the problem isn't that the game is bad, but why the **** can't I choose to have a good ending over a bitter sweet one for MY Shepard. instead of giving me 3 depressing ones that are all the same besides a few word choices lol


I know you don't want to heare this, but the reason is simple.


Bioware wanted to END Shepard.  Permanently.  The one ending where (s)he survives is a tribute to the fact that Shepard has beaten the odds before.

Personally, I think the endings are just fine.  I do, however, respect your right to disagree.

:wizard:

#25
J5550123

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A Golden Dragon wrote...

mastirkal wrote...

Dragon has a very good point in the comment above mine, the problem isn't that the game is bad, but why the **** can't I choose to have a good ending over a bitter sweet one for MY Shepard. instead of giving me 3 depressing ones that are all the same besides a few word choices lol


I know you don't want to heare this, but the reason is simple.


Bioware wanted to END Shepard.  Permanently.  The one ending where (s)he survives is a tribute to the fact that Shepard has beaten the odds before.

Personally, I think the endings are just fine.  I do, however, respect your right to disagree.

:wizard:


If they wanted Shepard out of the story, all they had to do was have him retire with his love interest, and then set the next game hundreds of years in the future with people mentioning how Shepard beat the reapers. They didn't have to kill him off, or give us depressing endings. Even the one where he survives doesn't sound very optimistic. Sure he's alive, but will he see his crew again? Are the other species getting along? They left so many things open after they promised to deliever closure to the trilogy. They obviously failed to do that, and so I don't think it's asking too much if we want them to give us downloadable content that actually gives us a proper ending and epilogue to the trilogy after all our hard work and money put into it. I respect your opinion, but Bioware should be trying their best to satisfy everyone and not just a select group of people.