86 réponses à ce sujet

[SyyRaaaN]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Didnt pay attention? Dude, dont try to bully me around

Around 3:25 and forward please. I interpret that as a core strategy and the real reason why they lost - along with losing their leaders. He also says that we cant comprehend it; at yet, it was very easy to comprehend or? Rofl.

Yeah okay, that was the original strategy because they come through the Citadel. If you enter the system through the Citadel you might as wel start there. Because of the Prothean scientists they couldn't come through the Citadel anymore. What I said still holds true because Vigil says the Reapers wen't after the heads of their goverments. As shown in ME3 the Citadel en te Council doesn't have much power when all the homeworld are attacked. So attacking Earth is still the primary target.

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Also at around 2:00; Sovereign docking: 

"Didn't pay attention" Yeah.

Yeah and then it gets shotdown before it can complete the task. Else the Citadel relay would open.

Sounds like hollywood story to me. Attacking earth the primary target? I've had some doubts about this. Lets deconstruct it.


Ok lets do some assumptions; what target should be the main one for a rational being who wants to win a war: 

• Communications (Citadel/Mass Relay control?): This would have prevented any kind of movement of the opposition. They would have lost the war in the long run. There is no way i can see how the war could be won by the cycle races without the fast travel provided with the relays. Ok so lets assume that the Reapers ability to control the citadel is fully gone after Sovereigns and Sarens failure. Then that MUST be EXPLAINED. The Keepers were genetically enginered by the Reapers. Sure they would have schematics left and see what went wrong with them? Also its implied in ME1 that the reason that Sovereign didn't attack the citadel and restored it alone is because he isn't powerful enough IIRC. Thus implying it could have been done. Also the Guardian seems to be able to control the Citadel without the keepers. So he can control everything except the most important functionality? Or was he slumbering and woken up by Harbinger, thus implying that they could have fixed the relay control? BIOWARE, WRITERS, HEY LOOK HERE. This isn't logical.

• So, okay. The logical part is to attack earth first? Ehum, why is that exactly? Just because Shepard destroyed 1.5 Reapers and dominated the useless collectors? Sounds like an emotional argument to me. And if the reapers act based on emotions like revenge, hate or lust? Eh... I dont know. Possibly. But that doesn't sound like Sovereign. Assuming that the Reapers are rational and calculating: Why not attack the strongest fleets first and disabeling them with combined strike before moving to earth? I mean, the Quarian flottila was fighting the Geth, they knew where it was. Couldn't they spare 3-4 reapers out of thousands to deal with that fast and swift, then move on to, lets say the turians? Their military strategy is 100% unlogical. And let me remind you that Harbinger/Guardian has fought several thousand battles. They are hardend veterans. If I, with no military training can do this; A Ai with a CPU of billions of gigahertz should be able to do a war effort better than this. Also, when they heard about the crucible... why didn't they focus fire it? Because they lost the battle? That implies that the reapers can be beaten conventionally... Thus further emphasizing the need of controlling the relays. Wow, that would have been such a cool story arc. The reapers attacking the citadel, closing down the relays. Humans and other races forced to rediscover Prothean signals to control the citadel and construct their own, reopening the relays. And after that beating the Reapers with the biggest combined fleet in the history of the galaxy, making John Sheridan looking like a noob. Im no writer, but making such a story work, securing it of plotholes, would have been true gangsta. Would also have forced the citadel speices to take Shepard seriously and start researching, and thus making the ME2 story relevant (by delaying the reapers) making the discovery of relay tech possible... Reapers plans thwarted, we win, i feel like a hero and i make blue little babies. I made this up now in 20 seconds.

• Eh, now thats an AI that also is know for its hate towards the non-cyclic uncontrolled events. It loves OORRRRDEEERRRR. Then why don't it act according to its own logic, presumably attacking the CITADEL AND CONTROLING THE RELAYS AS IT ALWAYS DID? Ok, so lets assume it couldn't do that... It seems to have acted pure on emotions, hatred or even fear of humans. Hatred, fear, emotions? Doesn't sound like order to me... sounds more like CHAOS. Gosh.

• Hollywood, Hollywood. 

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 09 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[ZX12r Ninja]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Ok lets do some assumptions; what target should be the main one for a rational being who wants to win a war: 

• Communications (Citadel/Mass Relay control?): This would have prevented any kind of movement of the opposition. They would have lost the war in the long run. There is no way i can see how the war could be won by the cycle races without the fast travel provided with the relays. Ok so lets assume that the Reapers ability to control the citadel is fully gone after Sovereigns and Sarens failure. Then that MUST be EXPLAINED. The Keepers were genetically enginered by the Reapers. Sure they would have schematics left and see what went wrong with them? Also its implied in ME1 that the reason that Sovereign didn't attack the citadel and restored it alone is because he isn't powerful enough IIRC. Thus implying it could have been done. Also the Guardian seems to be able to control the Citadel without the keepers. So he can control everything except the most important functionality? Or was he slumbering and woken up by Harbinger, thus implying that they could have fixed the relay control? BIOWARE, WRITERS, HEY LOOK HERE. This isn't logical.

First it's stated by Guardian that it controls the Reapers, the Reapers do not control it. Second, just like the Geth need their platforms, just like your body needs it's bloodcells, somebody needs to provide upkeep for the Citadel systems as the Guardian can't do it.

[*]So, okay. The logical part is to attack earth first? Ehum, why is that exactly? Just because Shepard destroyed 1.5 Reapers and dominated the useless collectors? Sounds like an emotional argument to me. And if the reapers act based on emotions like revenge, hate or lust? Eh... I dont know. Possibly. But that doesn't sound like Sovereign. Assuming that the Reapers are rational and calculating: Why not attack the strongest fleets first and disabeling them with combined strike before moving to earth? I mean, the Quarian flottila was fighting the Geth, they knew where it was. Couldn't they spare 3-4 reapers out of thousands to deal with that fast and swift, then move on to, lets say the turians? Their military strategy is 100% unlogical. And let me remind you that Harbinger/Guardian has fought several thousand battles. They are hardend veterans. If I, with no military training can do this; A Ai with a CPU of billions of gigahertz should be able to do a war effort better than this.

Just by doing that "easy little feat" he demonstrated he's a threath because he had the ability to take down the Reapers.... Maybe that's why.

[*]Eh, now thats an AI that also is know for its hate towards the non-cyclic uncontrolled events. It loves OORRRRDEEERRRR. Then why don't it act according to its own logic, presumably attacking the CITADEL AND CONTROLING THE RELAYS AS IT ALWAYS DID? Ok, so lets assume it couldn't do that... It seems to have acted pure on emotions, hatred or even fear of humans. Hatred, fear, emotions? Doesn't sound like order to me... sounds more like CHAOS. Gosh.
[/list]

• Hollywood, Hollywood. 

It's never said it likes order it's just said the Reapers bring order to the universe. The AI says that this is it's sollution to keep organics from wiping themselves out. Second just because it likes order doesn't mean it's authistic.

[SyyRaaaN]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...



First
it's stated by Guardian that it controls the Reapers, the Reapers do
not control it. Second, just like the Geth need their platforms, just
like your body needs it's bloodcells, somebody needs to provide upkeep
for the Citadel systems as the Guardian can't do it.

-----

Just by doing that "easy little feat" he demonstrated he's a threath
because he had the ability to take down the Reapers.... Maybe that's
why.





It's
never said it likes order it's just said the Reapers bring order to the
universe. The AI says that this is it's sollution to keep organics from
wiping themselves out. Second just because it likes order doesn't mean
it's authistic.

And there is where the story breaks down. Guardian controlling the Reapers? Then it maybe should tell the reapers the following: "Hey guys, Harbinger, dude, something is wrong with me. I cant spread my legs for you... Please do me lie Sovereign did! It's something with the Keepers!"


And your last sentence is nice. The picture here around the forum with Xzibit on it is hilarious.

%20http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af134/gnosblax/yodawgme.jpg%20

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 09 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[ZX12r Ninja]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

And there is where the story breaks down. Guardian controlling the Reapers? Then it maybe should tell the reapers the following: "Hey guys, Harbinger, dude, something is wrong with me. I cant spread my legs for you... Please do me lie Sovereign did! It's something with the Keepers!"


And your last sentence is nice. The picture here around the forum with Xzibit on it is hilarious.

%20http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af134/gnosblax/yodawgme.jpg%20

It's an AI, the signal to communicate to the outside world was blocked. It's not a human which can simply pickup a telephone and call. I don't see the point in your arguments to be honest. Seems to me you just lack the ability to understand basic things and thus do not understand the story.

[nightwolf667]

I'll replay ME3, heck I might even complete it a second time through so my favorite character can get a New Game +. After that though? I'll be shutting it down right after I say goodbye to everyone and get my final romantic scene with my chosen LI. I like the game, I'd replay the game, I spent a few days working through it, and it is a really nice end to the series. I don't like the endings.

So, I'm just going to self-determinate and choose my own. It was worth the money though!

[atheelogos]

I actually loved the endings. Well except one thing.

There was no closure. We don't get to see our choices made real. They promised that no question would go unanswered and just about every question ended up being unanswered.

This stems from the fact that there is no epilogue to explain what happens to everyone.
If they just added that I would be happy.

[Hunter_Wolf]

I think by the large most people love the story until the ending. I feel it did get watered down though and lets be honest, all these corridors ( well mainly the Citadel ) are smaller than even the hubs on ME2 - and those were small. I came to this game thinking there would be more exploration more on par with ME1 but alas that wasn't true. I however enjoyed the story until the climax which baffled my mind as I chose to help the Geth and Quarians find peace; instead I'm rewarded with the only gut decision destroying the Geth as a casualty.

For me, becoming a Reaper defeats the whole purpose of who I made my Shepard out to be. Controlling them is a cop out for me, not for everybody of course, I made my Shepard in ME1 and ME2 to be uncompromising and beat the Reapers at every step given the opportunity. Granted, if there was an option to not "assume direct control" and instead tell the Reapers to hibernate permanently in Dark Space - I'd have loved that. Then I'd have my Shepard live and he could father Ashley's son!

[SyyRaaaN]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

And there is where the story breaks down. Guardian controlling the Reapers? Then it maybe should tell the reapers the following: "Hey guys, Harbinger, dude, something is wrong with me. I cant spread my legs for you... Please do me lie Sovereign did! It's something with the Keepers!"


And your last sentence is nice. The picture here around the forum with Xzibit on it is hilarious.

%20http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af134/gnosblax/yodawgme.jpg%20

It's an AI, the signal to communicate to the outside world was blocked. It's not a human which can simply pickup a telephone and call. I don't see the point in your arguments to be honest. Seems to me you just lack the ability to understand basic things and thus do not understand the story.

It never says anything of that. Now you have to make up your mind for gods sake. Does the Guardian control the Reapers or not? You really mean that the Guardian controlled the Reapers the last cycle, but not this one? OH OKAY. NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

Then howcome Sovereign seemed to act like a subject, an agent? 

Also, the entire plot before implied that the Citadel was an object, not a subject. However this isn't the problem. The problem itself is that we have NO , NO, buildup to such a story in ME2 or ME3. All we have is action, action and some more action. Things arent explained; Sounds like Michael Bay and Hollywood to me  I don't buy that twist and it just feels forced and isn't explaind because of the action theme of the game.
.
The AI-kid never says ANYTHING about that and it losing control over anything. Sovereign seemed to act like a subject; trying to fix the citadel through other agents. So either the Reapers are subjects that can act out of free will, or they are just a tool, an object to be controlled. But if they are just objects, tools, then why did Sovereign act without the input of the citadel? Does it have reserve plans? But then again; Shouldn't Harbinger & CO have the same reserve plans in that case? Or is theirs simply to do a miserable war strategy if the citadel doesn't control them? Didn't seem so to me when Sovereign acted.

Wow, this is a really cool story; TO BAD IT ISN'T MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE GAME. And really i simply can't buy that the Reapers and/or the Guardian put that much trust into the keepers to open the citadel and to communicate with the outside world when the Guardian is there. Whats up with that setup. Makes no sense at all. None. As it was explained in ME1 it was understandable. Back then the keepers were just keepers... They maintained the citadel, helped the other races use it and they changed their behaviour when a signal was sent to them to open the relay when the Reapers want that. The last part is totally unnessessary i the Guardian is in there. And the idea that the AI goes into some slumber mode to conserve power and gets waked up by the keepers... What? Really? Please. How many watts can it take to run that thing compared to the entire Citadel. This makes no sense. NO SENSE.

However, the problem is that NONE of this is explained, the Guardian simply says that the Reapers are
his solution to order and chaos blablba. And that needed to be explained in more than a sentence or two. Thats why the story sucks, thats why nothing adds up. Thats why i can point up several legitimate questions. Thats why you need to "come up" with different answers to these issues; Because Bioware didn't bother. Because they wanted. Actioooooooon all game long. What provokes the **** out me is that you attack us stating we want a Hollywood story, a hollywood ending.

Seriously, if you can't see the gigantic flaw in the story im pointing out to you. And ofcourse I don't understand anything of the story; because there is no one that makes sense. The only way to make it understandable is to stop thinking. So, I just agree to disagree. I don't care anymore. Good for you if you enjoyed the game!

I know that im not alone to think that this game destroyed the series.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 09 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[ZX12r Ninja]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

It never says anything of that. Now you have to make up your mind for gods sake. Does the Guardian control the Reapers or not? You really mean that the Guardian controlled the Reapers the last cycle, but not this one? OH OKAY. NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

Then howcome Sovereign seemed to act like a subject, an agent? 

Also, the entire plot before implied that the Citadel was an object, not a subject. However this isn't the problem. The problem itself is that we have NO , NO, buildup to such a story in ME2 or ME3. All we have is action, action and some more action. Things arent explained; Sounds like Michael Bay and Hollywood to me  I don't buy that twist and it just feels forced and isn't explaind because of the action theme of the game.
.
The AI-kid never says ANYTHING about that and it losing control over anything. Sovereign seemed to act like a subject; trying to fix the citadel through other agents. So either the Reapers are subjects that can act out of free will, or they are just a tool, an object to be controlled. But if they are just objects, tools, then why did Sovereign act without the input of the citadel? Does it have reserve plans? But then again; Shouldn't Harbinger & CO have the same reserve plans in that case? Or is theirs simply to do a miserable war strategy if the citadel doesn't control them? Didn't seem so to me when Sovereign acted.

Wow, this is a really cool story; TO BAD IT ISN'T MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE GAME. And really i simply can't buy that the Reapers and/or the Guardian put that much trust into the keepers to open the citadel and to communicate with the outside world when the Guardian is there. Whats up with that setup. Makes no sense at all. None. As it was explained in ME1 it was understandable. Back then the keepers were just keepers... They maintained the citadel, helped the other races use it and they changed their behaviour when a signal was sent to them to open the relay when the Reapers want that. The last part is totally unnessessary i the Guardian is in there. And the idea that the AI goes into some slumber mode to conserve power and gets waked up by the keepers... What? Really? Please. How many watts can it take to run that thing compared to the entire Citadel. This makes no sense. NO SENSE.

However, the problem is that NONE of this is explained, the Guardian simply says that the Reapers are
his solution to order and chaos blablba. And that needed to be explained in more than a sentence or two. Thats why the story sucks, thats why nothing adds up. Thats why i can point up several legitimate questions. Thats why you need to "come up" with different answers to these issues; Because Bioware didn't bother. Because they wanted. Actioooooooon all game long. What provokes the **** out me is that you attack us stating we want a Hollywood story, a hollywood ending.

Seriously, if you can't see the gigantic flaw in the story im pointing out to you. And ofcourse I don't understand anything of the story; because there is no one that makes sense. The only way to make it understandable is to stop thinking. So, I just agree to disagree. I don't care anymore. Good for you if you enjoyed the game!

I know that im not alone to think that this game destroyed the series.

You really need to start paying more attention because everything you just write is either handeled in the game or I explained it to you above. If you lack the ability to comprehand then that's your problem, really don't feel like going in an inf loop of me having to shoot everything down and then you reitterate the same thing.

[SyyRaaaN]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

It never says anything of that. Now you have to make up your mind for gods sake. Does the Guardian control the Reapers or not? You really mean that the Guardian controlled the Reapers the last cycle, but not this one? OH OKAY. NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

Then howcome Sovereign seemed to act like a subject, an agent? 

Also, the entire plot before implied that the Citadel was an object, not a subject. However this isn't the problem. The problem itself is that we have NO , NO, buildup to such a story in ME2 or ME3. All we have is action, action and some more action. Things arent explained; Sounds like Michael Bay and Hollywood to me  I don't buy that twist and it just feels forced and isn't explaind because of the action theme of the game.
.
The AI-kid never says ANYTHING about that and it losing control over anything. Sovereign seemed to act like a subject; trying to fix the citadel through other agents. So either the Reapers are subjects that can act out of free will, or they are just a tool, an object to be controlled. But if they are just objects, tools, then why did Sovereign act without the input of the citadel? Does it have reserve plans? But then again; Shouldn't Harbinger & CO have the same reserve plans in that case? Or is theirs simply to do a miserable war strategy if the citadel doesn't control them? Didn't seem so to me when Sovereign acted.

Wow, this is a really cool story; TO BAD IT ISN'T MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE GAME. And really i simply can't buy that the Reapers and/or the Guardian put that much trust into the keepers to open the citadel and to communicate with the outside world when the Guardian is there. Whats up with that setup. Makes no sense at all. None. As it was explained in ME1 it was understandable. Back then the keepers were just keepers... They maintained the citadel, helped the other races use it and they changed their behaviour when a signal was sent to them to open the relay when the Reapers want that. The last part is totally unnessessary i the Guardian is in there. And the idea that the AI goes into some slumber mode to conserve power and gets waked up by the keepers... What? Really? Please. How many watts can it take to run that thing compared to the entire Citadel. This makes no sense. NO SENSE.

However, the problem is that NONE of this is explained, the Guardian simply says that the Reapers are
his solution to order and chaos blablba. And that needed to be explained in more than a sentence or two. Thats why the story sucks, thats why nothing adds up. Thats why i can point up several legitimate questions. Thats why you need to "come up" with different answers to these issues; Because Bioware didn't bother. Because they wanted. Actioooooooon all game long. What provokes the **** out me is that you attack us stating we want a Hollywood story, a hollywood ending.

Seriously, if you can't see the gigantic flaw in the story im pointing out to you. And ofcourse I don't understand anything of the story; because there is no one that makes sense. The only way to make it understandable is to stop thinking. So, I just agree to disagree. I don't care anymore. Good for you if you enjoyed the game!

I know that im not alone to think that this game destroyed the series.

You really need to start paying more attention because everything you just write is either handeled in the game or I explained it to you above. If you lack the ability to comprehand then that's your problem, really don't feel like going in an inf loop of me having to shoot everything down and then you reitterate the same thing.

Ok dawg, whatever you say. I swear, if BIoware would spoonfeed you with poop, you would still say it tasted good.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 09 mars 2012 - 05:58 .

[SLonergan]

Most sensible people aren't asking for an ending where Shepard lives!

Shepard sacrificing himself to save everything he loves is a beautiful moment. I don't want him to live.

What I want, is an ending that doesn't contradict everything that Shepard is sacrificing himself for. If Shepard's sacrifice had ultimately saved the Galaxy, then I'd be happy with the ending.

But Shepard's sacrifice didn't do that. It crippled the galaxy, destroyed all the infrastructure that let the galaxy operate, and stranded his friends on some planet. And now that the Mass Relays are gone, they have no hope for salvation.

After fighting the Reapers for 3 games, Shepard basically did their job for them.

[atheelogos]

SLonergan wrote...

Most sensible people aren't asking for an ending where Shepard lives!

Shepard sacrificing himself to save everything he loves is a beautiful moment. I don't want him to live.

What I want, is an ending that doesn't contradict everything that Shepard is sacrificing himself for. If Shepard's sacrifice had ultimately saved the Galaxy, then I'd be happy with the ending.

But Shepard's sacrifice didn't do that. It crippled the galaxy, destroyed all the infrastructure that let the galaxy operate, and stranded his friends on some planet. And now that the Mass Relays are gone, they have no hope for salvation.

After fighting the Reapers for 3 games, Shepard basically did their job for them.

You know I'm not as mad with endings as most, but what you said here was well worded. If shep's sacrafise didn't destroy everything, which will kill millions if not billions, then I wouldn't mind the endings.

Oh and Shep needs a kid to carry on his name. I would have liked to have seen an epilogue where you see shep's girl with a baby bump. 

And on that note we need a full epilogue. I don't care if its not a cutscene. They can go the route of DAO for all I care but they need something cuz they answered nothing.