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[Jjacobclark]

Modifié par Jjacobclark, 13 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[Sorayai]

Hexxys wrote...

All of my actions were in vain. This is fiction, and I wasn't playing to save no-name NPCs in the game. The reason I did all of those side quests, saved all of my squad mates, and played the game at all in the first place is to come out victorious in every sense of the word. As it is right now, that's not possible.

No matter what I do, the Mass Effect universe as we know it is destroyed. No relays = no galactic civilization = no mass effect. Even if I save myself (Shepard), I destroy the Geth and EDI, on top of everything else that happens automatically. If I control the reapers, or synthesize, Shepard dies and is never able to see his friends or LI ever again. What's the point?

I hate when people say "durrr there are no happy endings IRL, get over it" when making reference to a purely fictional video game. The purpose of fiction is for the reader/watcher/player to live out these fantastic adventures vicariously. Fiction is not subject to the realities of our existence. In a very real sense, in fact, it allows us to escape them.

I'm not suggesting that the endings should have "only" been happy. I'm suggesting that the endings should be vastly different based on the choices we've made, the paths we've pursued, and time we've spent forging alliances. A sad ending is fine, as long as it's one of many possibilities. Happy, bittersweet, sad... They all have their place. It was up to us to achieve them, however Bioware seems to have dropped the ball on their end by not even giving us the opportunity.

dude, I love you.. well said!

I just had to quote this because it sums up everything i wanted to say

[Spectre_Shepard]

Damn straight, skipper.

Need a fix.

[Sorayai]

darkFearz wrote...

For people saying we are complaining about not getting a "Disney" ending....It's about the horribly written ending. I wonder if they hired the Mass Effect: Revelation author to write the ending.

- Huge plot/lore holes.
- No closure with your characters.
- Choices from previous games didn't matter in the end.
- Getting assets to help with the war didn't matter in the end.

I want my choices to affect the ending.

If my choices caused Shepard to die, comrades to die, LI dies, reapers to win, etc. etc. then I'm fine with it if it gave me CLOSURE and the end actually was well written BASED on my CHOICES.

Same for the opposite end of the spectrum. If I did everything from ME1 to the end trying to ensure my survival, comrades survival, gathering assets, happy ending with LI, etc. etc. Then I want and ending that reflects that. Along with CLOSURE and a well written ending BASED on my CHOICES.

I expected multiple endings. What was given was 3 color choices; all ending the same with nothing affected by your choices from the previous games. It's that simple.

yep. my thoughts exactly... just had to quote such a great post

[Reign762]

I have always viewed Mass Effect as an incredible journey.  One of Sacrifice and Nobility.  The path you took was never set nor how you got there either.  The destination never clear.  Only the goal.  To Stop the Reapers.  A soldier that bred loyalty and friendship that never compromised his beliefs.  He would lead his soldiers into hell and they all believed they would come back alive.  Even if they knew the chances of success were small.  They believed in you.

You were a soldier that saw the darkness and sorrow of war.  A man who stood against that darkness and would never fall to it.  You gave light to the galaxy that had shadows within it.  And to those who met you placed their faith in you.  You carried the weight of peoples sorrows on you and never asked for anything in return.  Because they had no one except you.  You survived for them.  You fought for them.  You lived for them.  And in return they believed in you.

The legacy of Shepard spoke throughout the galaxy.  The name alone gave hope to a galaxy with little.  As Earth Burned ... as Thessia Fell ... as Palaven crumbled ... they looked to a hope to deliver them from darkness.  It was Shepard that would light that candle for all to see, but before the flame could shine its brightest it must fade.  For a brief moment the flame will collapse, darken, and fade into oblivion and the hope of the people must waiver.  Then when it seems as though the fire will burn out and victory lost, it will then achieve its pinnacle of light and those around it will be delivered from darkness.

I might be alive.  I might be dead.  I may have been herald as savior, or I may even have been forgotten.  The world may have been better off or not, but those I fought for would see another day.  Those I never knew and never will would see another day.  Another chance at change in the world that was made.  But it would be my choice.

And that is what hurts most about the ending that the choice and the decisions throughout and especially in the end were not mine.

[Iztiak]

Well said. We were railroaded into one unsatisfying ending.

If there was this ending, and maybe 3-4 others that were actually different, I'd just play through and choose the different ending. But no, they're all practically the same.

[rektor99]

**** BIOWARE !!!

[ThePasserby]

The writers over-reached and failed. They thought they had written something clever, thought-provoking and epic - something to be remembered for years in gaming history. Well, it will be remembered, but as a case study of how not to end a well-loved franchise.

[Wattoes]

ThePasserby wrote...

The writers over-reached and failed. They thought they had written something clever, thought-provoking and epic - something to be remembered for years in gaming history. Well, it will be remembered, but as a case study of how not to end a well-loved franchise.

Pretty much this.

ME3 is going to sit at the top of "worst game endings of all time" for eternity.

[Linus108]

Jjacobclark wrote...

I could have dealt with a "dark ending"
but to have this incoherent mess be the end of what was one of my favorite stories ever told it just feels like a bad dream

at least extrapolate on the philosophical ramifications a bit before you make me change the ontology of organic life

This. I could totally accept a full ending that was IMO bad. At least it would be a full ending. But the abrupt incoherent ending we got...was just, not even matching up with a 100 + hour epic. 

[Linus108]

Wattoes wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

The writers over-reached and failed. They thought they had written something clever, thought-provoking and epic - something to be remembered for years in gaming history. Well, it will be remembered, but as a case study of how not to end a well-loved franchise.

Pretty much this.

ME3 is going to sit at the top of "worst game endings of all time" for eternity.

Sad thing is, I bet they probably have contempt for people that are railing against it. I could imagine them being like: "Whatever, they just don't like good art. They just wanted a happy ending, and are upset. Boohoo. The way we ended it was incredibly sophisticated with a lot of depth."

[Themanclaw]

Ah yes, Mass Effect 3 had an ending. We have dismissed that claim.

[VerdantSF]

Linus108 wrote...

Sad thing is, I bet they probably have contempt for people that are railing against it. I could imagine them being like: "Whatever, they just don't like good art. They just wanted a happy ending, and are upset. Boohoo. The way we ended it was incredibly sophisticated with a lot of depth."

I'm sure there was at least ONE person who tried to stop this ending from becoming reality.  It would be cool to read, maybe in a couple of years, what it was like to try to fight for a better ending as a member of the creative team.

[Caz Neerg]

It isn't "sophisticated" or "deep" to copy/paste the ending from the original Deus Ex. Just lazy and uninspired, and the rest of the game provides ample proof that BioWare's writers are capable of much better.

I think it would restore a lot of people's respect for BioWare if they just admit they screwed up, even if they don't change anything. And they did screw up. The depth and consistency of the reaction across the fanbase shows that what they have done goes way beyond making an artistic statement. They gave us an ending which is fundamentally incompatible with the reasonable expectations of the nature of the franchise created by the previous 100+ hours of content, and pretty much the entire fanbase sees that that is what they did. I find it hard to believe that *nobody* working for BioWare sees it.

[UrdnotGrunty2]

Savber100 wrote...

deathscythe517 wrote...

You know what? No, go to hell. I am sick and tired of people like you, people who hold their noses up in the air because it's not 'dark' enough. It's not ADULT enough. There are no hardcores or casuals, there are only gamers, and thanks to people like you, the franchise I and many people invested into has been ruined and you defending this tripe just shows it's going to keep getting worse.

News of the day: dark is not deep, depressing isn't emotionally gripping, and when a game trumpets that choices and consequences are one of its main selling points everyone else plus myself have a right to be pissed off. You want dark and edgy? Listen to the stories of veterans, victims, of people who have suffered in real life. Oh wait, that's too 'real' for you isn't it? No you just want something to be grimdark for the sake of being grimdark because you think it somehow makes it more intellectual or mature.

I was so close to finishing the bloody game but now I don't even want to touch it anymore. Congratulations Bioware, you've effectively killed your universe and by extension made George Lucas look like less of a hack.

Calm your horses. I feel thematically the ending fits. I understand that people are upset over the bittersweet (or bitter w/e you like to see it) but the point is that I understood why the ending ended as it does. The execution might have been mediocre but the ending was a match to what I felt was the direction the franchise would and should have headed with the entire "galactic war with god machines". 

I'm simply sick of the trope of some hero riding off to the sunsets that people seems to be confushing with the other critics that demanded a more solid closure with Shepard and his or her LI of which I understand more to an extent. 

But either way I still think that reaction to the endings is simply an overreactio to an expectation that desired a happy, triumphaunt ending that we had in ME2 which simply wasn't matching what we have seen about the war prior to ME3. 

I apologize if I came across as arrogant although your attitude isn't really helping with that "casual" arguement. 

This is a game about choices, and is supposed to have many different endings possible, but in reality it basically has 1.  There should be a bad grimdark ending that you apparently like for people like you, and then (not a disney ending) a somewhat happy ending for people who want it (the majority).

I don't get what Bioware is trying to do with that stupid ending statement by not giving their fans and players what they wanted, or a way to get it.  Heck have Shepard and his LI run off to isolated planet and let the galaxy get destroyed, that's no disney ending, and is an actual 'bittersweet' ending.  There is no sweetness in this ending, no satisfaction for 'saving' the galaxy, and it is all pulled together by some stupid star child kid.

The ending is bad.

[Blood Wraith5]

Warp92 wrote...

No doubt.. Bioware really screwed over :/

I AGREE COMPLETELY
I got Mass Effect 1 as a christmas present right after it came out, and i still think its the best game i've ever played. Between 1 and 2 i'd made 7 different characters trying to see all the different choices play out, and spent way over 150 hours getting them there. Finally I get to Mass Effect 3 with my favorite and first charcter(witch i had to redesign since somethings wrong with face importing), and spent over 40 hours(loving every minute of it) until the final. I spent all these years making tons of choice that i thought would matter, and right at the end Bioware says you've got three,pick your poison. Even with over 6000 in war assests and all those "meaningful" choices i get stuck watching everything i love about the game destroyed in 5 minute conversation and a weak cutscene where no matter what i chose the normandy crashes on some planet(why it was flying away and not in the fight with the fleet at earth i'll never know) and on top of that the Citadel and the Mass Relays are destroyed (i think i remember something bad happening to the relay's sysytem the last time one was destroyed)  mean all those asari, krogan, salarians, and the others with the fleet are stuck on earth too.
To top it all off my Sheperd's laying half dead in what looks like what's left of the Citadel or "dead" in the other two replays of the end.
So thanks Bioware you really let me down this time along with plenty others i'm sure.

[Blood Wraith5]

@UrdnotGrunty2
where did you get that "AMERICAN FLEET" tag ,and how do i put it on mine

[Edje Edgar]

The ending made me feel totally miserable. Just ruined the whole franchise for me. I cannot for the life of me believe that is what Bioware was shooting for. So the ending was a complete and total failure, for me and many others.

All of this could've been averted by sticking to your own very succesfull formula of having players decide the outcome.

[Jjacobclark]

VerdantSF wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

Sad thing is, I bet they probably have contempt for people that are railing against it. I could imagine them being like: "Whatever, they just don't like good art. They just wanted a happy ending, and are upset. Boohoo. The way we ended it was incredibly sophisticated with a lot of depth."

I'm sure there was at least ONE person who tried to stop this ending from becoming reality.  It would be cool to read, maybe in a couple of years, what it was like to try to fight for a better ending as a member of the creative team.

This is something I am very interested in, I bet there is a good story about the development. And the transfer of Drew who is arguably their greatest writer... It's like having a prize bull and letting all your inexperienced farmhands take care of him

Modifié par Jjacobclark, 13 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[Jjacobclark]

forums are rather fast

[LdyBelial]

Look, I get it, some liked the endings.  However -- many do not.  Yes, this was BioWare's story to tell and maybe those of us who are disgruntled should "suck-it-up and deal with it".  But to that I have this to say:  I have every right to expect the same quality of play as were given to me in ME1 and 2.  I invested in ME3 because of that quality of play.  It was somewhat of a promise given but broken in ME3.  

The inconsistencies of ME3 are appalling.  It is obvious that the focus of the game was no longer on the Role-playing elements but centered instead on the First Person Shooter aspect.  The first person shooter is fine; if they wanted to allow players to focus on that and ignore the RP that would have been great.  But they sold those of us out who came for the RP elements and that is not fine in my opinion.  You make a promise you should follow through on that promise or expect people to be pissed off. I'm rightly pissed off!  

I played ME1 and 2; they were both awesome games.  I spent much of my time conversing with my crewmates and I loved it.  I get that other players may not have enjoyed that kind of thing as much as I did.  I am totally cool with them having the option to tailor the game to their preferences’.  But to lose so much of the interactive elements in ME3 was very disconnecting for me.  It left me feeling hollow inside and as if the RP elements were secondary to the SHOOTING/violence when in past games it felt more like the meat of the game to me.

And yes, I get it:  This was the "Battle for Earth" and I did expect more fighting and I did expect it to be more intense.  What I am saying is that I also expected the conversations to be the same!  More intense!  More intimate!  Heck, all of the crew was facing the same things: potential death and/or assimilation by the Reapers, lost families and friends.   I anticipated a more visceral reaction and hence deeper connections.  We got them in ME2, why shouldn't I have expected to be given something similar in ME3?

I played Mass Effect more for the RP elements than the first person shooter.  Actually, I don't like first person shooters -- in ME1 and 2 I didn't feel like I was being subjected to them.  In ME3 I felt the focus was on the SHOOTING/fighting rather than on the awesome interactions I had been blessed with in the other two games.  

I will say this: The storyline outside of the endings was pretty darn good!  I would have liked more options for interactions -- but I could have dealt with what I got had the endings not proven to be so incredibly incompatible, out of place, out of sync with the previous two games and let’s face it - lame.  

**************Spoiler Alert!!!  *****************


The endings...  I don't get how they can say we have 16, (or 17 if you beat the game then import that save reportedly) potential endings -- we don't really.  We have three very bad choices given to us by what feels like a last minute construct so they could introduce an existential-seeming twist for the highbrow pseudo-intellectuals out there to buy into and defend with their last breath.  

Now many feel that a sad ending would have been fine with them.  And yes, I would agree... if it were MY choice.  I don't see why they couldn't give us endings of our choice.  If I wanted to sacrifice my Shepard for the greater good, then I should have had that option.  If I wanted "rainbows and unicorns" then I should have had that option too. (Like wanting a happy-ever-after in our FANTASY is some kind of a crime these days, really people, really???!  Are we that jaded and small-minded that we can't allow room for those who want it?)  That was supposedly the whole point behind the game series to begin with... wasn’t it?  We direct the story the way we want it to go… right?  In Mass Effect 1 and 2 we got that -- why not give it to us in ME3 as well?  Is that so hard to understand?  And if it is… Why?

The plot-holes are staggering!  The fact is:  According to the "Arrival" dlc, (which is effectively established cannon by now and is why our Commander Shepard is under House-Arrest at the beginning of Mass Effect 3), every solar system in the Milky Way that had a Mass Relay in it was destroyed, (whether or not BioWare wants us to REALIZE this or not).  Everything BioWare created with the Mass Effect-verse has effectively been destroyed by any of the three endings.  Wow?  That's like -- insanity!

Whatever hope we had of a continuing Mass Effect-verse is essentially gone... but of course I am sure they will find some other lame excuse to feed us that it's not. 
 
And please -- don't try to label it art and how it is BioWare's right to dictate the storyline at me, the supposed "audience"!  Art is something I can look at before I purchase it.  I can invest in it and bring it home knowing its value and aesthetics’ before I buy.  A movie I get to choose based on many factors so I have a pretty decent idea of what I am investing in.  If I hate it was less than a $20 and I can walk out on it if it is crap.  A Video Game is interactive entertainment -- I am supposed to get some kind of satisfaction out of playing it.  If this was the FIRST Mass Effect game, I wouldn't be complaining, I would chalk it up to my own stupidity for purchasing crap and then never buy anything from the developers again.  This is the THIRD game in the series.  I had every right to expect the same quality of play as the first two installments gave me.

We are customers who purchased a game with the promise it would be the final episode in a trilogy of games.  We expected the same considerations and quality they gave us in the first two games. We are NOT asking too much from BioWare.

And for you haters out there thinking we are being pissy and childish:

You don't have to agree, you don't have to like those of us who are unhappy -- but neither do you have to subject us to your sarcasm, your hateful words or callous and unseemly behaviors.  We get it, you liked the endings and you think poorly of us who didn't.  GOOD for you!  Some of us didn’t and we are upset.  Why don’t you suck it up instead of telling us to?

Many of us who are unhappy have every right to feel as we do.  Those of you trying to subject us to your derisiveness are out of line.  You got what you wanted.  Why can't the rest of us have what we wanted too? How does that hurt you? The way I see it?  It doesn't hurt anyone for us to ask for due consideration for the quality we rightly deserve.

Just my opinion, if that needs to be stated,

Lan

P.S. Apologies if I sound harsh -- I am upset and angry because a beloved series has been ruined for me in less than five minutes of game play.  I am also tired of reading how some think we who do not like the endings are being childish and demanding.  I have invested years into these games, and as silly, insane or idiotic as this may sound, they really are beloved to me!  I feel betrayed and heartbroken by BioWare's seeming indifference to my investment -- and how they topped off what I know to have been (before those terrible choices at the end of the game) one of the BEST RPG series ever created.  I wanted ME3 to be the crown of Glory -- not the sad, dreary disappointment it became. 

Modifié par LdyBelial, 13 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[Iztiak]

Wow, very well written. And I completely agree.

This game was about choice, and it was all taken away...

[Tydeus]

(Mostly Spoilers)

I agree the game could’ve ended with a little bit of a variation or whatever, it just seems that my ME1 and 2 playthrough were for nothing with ME2 being even less important. ME3 got rid of most of your companions from ME2 and giving them small cameo roles. Even the romance scenes weren’t great. You kiss and it fades to black or something? I have hope that it isn’t the end of the game because if it is.. the ending doesn’t make me want to go replay the other two to carry on the saves.

Although mass effect hasn’t been that big on giving us choices in the game either. It looks like they do but no matter how you play the game you still end up in the same places and situations as you would be anyway. Mass Effect 1 should’ve let you save both Ash and Kaidan. You had all those unused security guys on your ship, not to mention two unused companions that could’ve helped him. You must’ve had time to go back for the Mako.. or even save Kirrahe if you choose to save the guy with the nuke. The whole Nihlus part was a little bit stupid to me too, how can he tell you he’s there to watch you if he goes solo on his mission like a noob?

ME2 at least carried over my choice for council member and if I saved the council or not. I loved that, but carrying it to ME3 just throws everything out of the window and starts again. Udina is on the council either way and the council is turian, asari and salarian anyway? Why let us choose? Blowing up the collector ship doesn’t change a thing either because TIM still has the human reaper

Also, pfft.. I don’t mind that they used a stock image for Tali. I just mind we never get to see her face. We’re Shepard yet we don’t get to see what he sees in ME2 if you romance her, or in ME3 when she takes off her mask on Rannoch. Unless they give us a romance pack I wanna watch Blasto! Or or or or Fleet and Flotilla, or even Citadel! lol.

I guess if the ending is the real ending in ME3 it makes no difference, cause the games never branched out anyway so technically we do get the same “considerations and quality they gave us in the first two games” after all. We had three very similar endings in ME1 and only 2 in ME2.

[M12311]

Hexxys wrote...

All of my actions were in vain. This is fiction, and I wasn't playing to save no-name NPCs in the game. The reason I did all of those side quests, saved all of my squad mates, and played the game at all in the first place is to come out victorious in every sense of the word. As it is right now, that's not possible.

No matter what I do, the Mass Effect universe as we know it is destroyed. No relays = no galactic civilization = no mass effect. Even if I save myself (Shepard), I destroy the Geth and EDI, on top of everything else that happens automatically. If I control the reapers, or synthesize, Shepard dies and is never able to see his friends or LI ever again. What's the point?

I hate when people say "durrr there are no happy endings IRL, get over it" when making reference to a purely fictional video game. The purpose of fiction is for the reader/watcher/player to live out these fantastic adventures vicariously. Fiction is not subject to the realities of our existence. In a very real sense, in fact, it allows us to escape them.

I'm not suggesting that the endings should have "only" been happy. I'm suggesting that the endings should be vastly different based on the choices we've made, the paths we've pursued, and time we've spent forging alliances. A sad ending is fine, as long as it's one of many possibilities. Happy, bittersweet, sad... They all have their place. It was up to us to achieve them, however Bioware seems to have dropped the ball on their end by not even giving us the opportunity.

Sums up how I feel too

[Jjacobclark]

M12311 wrote...

Hexxys wrote...

All of my actions were in vain. This is fiction, and I wasn't playing to save no-name NPCs in the game. The reason I did all of those side quests, saved all of my squad mates, and played the game at all in the first place is to come out victorious in every sense of the word. As it is right now, that's not possible.

No matter what I do, the Mass Effect universe as we know it is destroyed. No relays = no galactic civilization = no mass effect. Even if I save myself (Shepard), I destroy the Geth and EDI, on top of everything else that happens automatically. If I control the reapers, or synthesize, Shepard dies and is never able to see his friends or LI ever again. What's the point?

I hate when people say "durrr there are no happy endings IRL, get over it" when making reference to a purely fictional video game. The purpose of fiction is for the reader/watcher/player to live out these fantastic adventures vicariously. Fiction is not subject to the realities of our existence. In a very real sense, in fact, it allows us to escape them.

I'm not suggesting that the endings should have "only" been happy. I'm suggesting that the endings should be vastly different based on the choices we've made, the paths we've pursued, and time we've spent forging alliances. A sad ending is fine, as long as it's one of many possibilities. Happy, bittersweet, sad... They all have their place. It was up to us to achieve them, however Bioware seems to have dropped the ball on their end by not even giving us the opportunity.

Sums up how I feel too

going to put this on the first page so long as that is okay with you