498 réponses à ce sujet

[Mmw04014]

Rawgrim wrote...

I mostly saw Mass Effect as an underdog-story. Getting a happy ending should be hard to get, absolutely. Still...the option should have been there.

Exactly. Even the suicide mission, where the game kept reinforcing, "Oh you might not come back" over and over, you still could walk away with absolutely no casualties. How do we go from that to the doom and gloom of the Mass Effect 3 ending? It just doesn't mesh.

[Sywen]

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if you look at the ending in DA2, the only thing you get to decide there is wether you fight Orsino or Meredith first. The ending is the same no matter what. So no matter what you do in the game, you end up with the same result.

I can still replay DA2.  There was some hope at the end.

 I will never be able to replay anyof the Mass Effect games again.  I never felt so hopeless.  A day later and I am still bursting into tears.

Games should be fun and the journey was so good.  I laughed. I cried.  Mordan's death had be crying for a good 20 minutes after that.  I went back and played.  I had hope his sacrifice would mean something in the end.  Nothing I did meant anything.  The last 5 minutes made every hour I played ME1,2 and 3 meaningless.

[Rawgrim]

When every ending pretty much is a very bad one (for the characters), it pretty much nullifies the hours of effort the players have put in to get to that point. More or less it "castrates" the whole journey through the games. The feeling of achieving something big, when I stopped Saren and the Collectors, feels rather...hollow now, to be honest. Its like it didn`t matter at all, given the ending(s) of the series.

[Mmw04014]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I mostly saw Mass Effect as an underdog-story. Getting a happy ending should be hard to get, absolutely. Still...the option should have been there.

Exactly. Even the suicide mission, where the game kept reinforcing, "Oh you might not come back" over and over, you still could walk away with absolutely no casualties. How do we go from that to the doom and gloom of the Mass Effect 3 ending? It just doesn't mesh.

Because EVERYONE (nearly) has complain that the Suicide Mission in ME2 was lame because you could walk out with no casualties.

Everyone? I have seen some people complain, but that was mostly because it was so easy to walk away with no casualties, not that the option was there to begin with. Besides, if someone thinks it's lame, then you can make it so people die. It's about choices. You can choose to have a happy ending or you could choose to have a sad one if you think it's more appropriate. Mass Effect doesn't give that in any way.

[Militarized]

Count me in, no more money for you Bioware. Cancelled my SWTOR subscription as well now.

[Rawgrim]

I remember the first time I played ME2, and I did mess up badly. I think I lost Tali, Thane, Garrus and Jack. I hadn`t prepared for the suicide mission well enough, and frankly I liked that. It added tons to the replayability of ME2.

[Rawgrim]

Juromaro wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

Rykoth wrote...
I see people who are complaining about no "happy endings." Guess what. Mass Effect is not a /happy/ franchise. It is a dark franchise, and as opposed to Dragon Age where they touted dark fantasy yet gave us way too many optimistic outcomes, Mass Effect is touted as dark, and it lives up to it.

I completely disagree with you on this. Mass Effect was never a dark series to me, at least not the first two. In both Mass Effect 1 and 2, Shepard is positioned against impossible odds, yet manages to be triumphant. They set a tone for the franchise. People expected to be able to triumph, just like  they have been doing. Instead Bioware said "lolnope" and gave you three endings that were absolutely terrible and, imo, did NOT fit with the theme they've been building to.

And I have to disagree with you. Mass Effect 1 began with a soldier who looked up to Shepard dying before firing a shot. Started with a colony underseige by AI and their people being turned into Husks, Kaiden or Ashley is sacrficed by Shepard for the mission, An entire species can possibly be wiped out due to fear. Shepard even has a backstory where he's the only surviving member of his team. Mass Effect 2 begins with Shepard dying, and the normandy being destroyed. Hundreds of thousands of Humans being abducted, Cerberus Scientists experimenting on Humans/Geth, Tali's father, Miranda's Friend, Thane's wife and son, Samara's daughters, Kasumi's lover etc....

Mass Effect was a series built in darkness. Everywhere shepard goes death follows him. Shepard never triumphs in Mass Effect 1 or 2. His actions only delayed the invasion. If your saying he triumphed because he walked away then yes he did, but at what cost? How many lives were lost?


And the endings do fit with the Theme they set out for Shepard, stopping the Reapers no matter the cost, Even shepard says so in both games. It's just that the Fans had grown fond of Shepard, I for one am pleased my descions mattered. Did I expect them to have a larger impact? Sure I did, but the fact that even the small choices are mentioned(Conrad/Shepards bad dancing etc..) makes the effort worth it. Even if I know that Shepard doesn't get to walk away from this one. I mean after all his luck had to run out at some point, He was just a soldier, not some superhuman.

Valid points. Absolutely. But I think you are missing the point abit. What people want is just an option of getting a happier ending. Nothing more.

[Mmw04014]

Juromaro wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

Rykoth wrote...
I see people who are complaining about no "happy endings." Guess what. Mass Effect is not a /happy/ franchise. It is a dark franchise, and as opposed to Dragon Age where they touted dark fantasy yet gave us way too many optimistic outcomes, Mass Effect is touted as dark, and it lives up to it.

I completely disagree with you on this. Mass Effect was never a dark series to me, at least not the first two. In both Mass Effect 1 and 2, Shepard is positioned against impossible odds, yet manages to be triumphant. They set a tone for the franchise. People expected to be able to triumph, just like  they have been doing. Instead Bioware said "lolnope" and gave you three endings that were absolutely terrible and, imo, did NOT fit with the theme they've been building to.

And I have to disagree with you. Mass Effect 1 began with a soldier who looked up to Shepard dying before firing a shot. Started with a colony underseige by AI and their people being turned into Husks, Kaiden or Ashley is sacrficed by Shepard for the mission, An entire species can possibly be wiped out due to fear. Shepard even has a backstory where he's the only surviving member of his team. Mass Effect 2 begins with Shepard dying, and the normandy being destroyed. Hundreds of thousands of Humans being abducted, Cerberus Scientists experimenting on Humans/Geth, Tali's father, Miranda's Friend, Thane's wife and son, Samara's daughters, Kasumi's lover etc....

Mass Effect was a series built in darkness. Everywhere shepard goes death follows him. Shepard never triumphs in Mass Effect 1 or 2. His actions only delayed the invasion. If your saying he triumphed because he walked away then yes he did, but at what cost? How many lives were lost?


And the endings do fit with the Theme they set out for Shepard, stopping the Reapers no matter the cost, Even shepard says so in both games. It's just that the Fans had grown fond of Shepard, I for one am pleased my descions mattered. Did I expect them to have a larger impact? Sure I did, but the fact that even the small choices are mentioned(Conrad/Shepards bad dancing etc..) makes the effort worth it. Even if I know that Shepard doesn't get to walk away from this one. I mean after all his luck had to run out at some point, He was just a soldier, not some superhuman.

I can concede that there were dark moments in the game, but I really feel that overall, the first two games were not very dark. They were about hope, beating the odds, and as someone else said, being the underdog. None of those themes translate to dark for me. Heck, I felt that when Bioware tried to be extra dark, it felt forced or not followed through. The first time I did Jacob's loyalty mission, I didn't know what the hell was going on. Bioware is more about telling you something is dark and not exactly showing you.

As for Shepard not being superman, Bioware built him/her up to be superman. He/She has done all these amazing and impossible things, I don't think it was out of the realm of possibility for players to expect that to happen at the end of the series as well.

[Rawgrim]

"There are 16 total endings, with many different permutations depending on your choices. 8 endings are associated with destroying the Collector Base, while 8 endings are associated with preserving the Collector Base.

All 16 endings are also dependent on your Effective Military Strength, the score provided by multiplying your War Asset score to your Galactic Readiness Rating. The higher your Effective Military Strength, the better your ending will be." I found this bit on one of the boards here. So basically we were promised 16 endings, but got 3. Meaning we paid for something we never got. doesn`t this mean we are entitled to get our money back? If I buy a pizza and find that the ingredients I was told would be on it is missing, then I can demand my money back, right? Its usually how it works when one buys a product.

[Asch Lavigne]

I guess I'm in the minority. I liked ME3 a lot and yeah the ending(s) were so not what I expected. But I don't need a new ending DLC.

I was disappointed in DA2 but will see what they do for DA3. If I do not like that game then I am done with the DA franchise, not Bioware. And I'm not going to boycott a whole company because I didn't like the ending to a game. Heck I was one of the ones who really disliked ME2 but that didn't make me hate Bioware or anything. While I personally disagree with the "no more Bioware" decision, I do respect (and in some cases understand) people's decision to say "no more."

[BW Jinxing]

If I can get some closure as to what happen to everyone else in the galaxy aside the Normandy after my choice, the ending wouldn't be so bad.

If I can see what happened to the galaxy, id can get over shock and move on. I can accept I died, no one lives forever after all. Sheppard is one lucky SOB to make it this far if you think about it.

Id consider ME4 which will likely be an entirely new story but I hope multiplayer does not has a outcome on the end again (never played ME for multiplayer, why bother now?)

[Rawgrim]

I dunno. I am left with a feeling that this all happened because they changed the genre of the series mid-way. At first it was an rpg where combat worked as a tps. Then most of the rp elements got removed (party customization etc), but the conversation bit got improved. The last game ended up as an interactive movie in between the action. Add multiplayer to the mix, and I have a sneaking suspicion about where the ressources for those 16 endings ended up instead.

[see_kay]

After Dragon Age: Origins Witch Hunt DLC and now this, I have lost pretty much all the faith I had left. Really was hoping for an ending which brought proper closure 6 years in the making.

[Maialeth]

Now see.. I actually understood what the Catalyst was saying. That It believed that True AI Synthetics would wipe out /ALL/ organic life, at some point in their development. Not Just their creators and those that were advanced enough.. but ALL organic life, Even those that are still evolving as a species, leaving nothing but synthetics in the world, no more new species. So The reapers were a way of... Culling the galaxy, removing the advanced species, and their AI synthetics, so that the younger unevolved species had room to grow without the potential of being wiped out by synthetics. I actually understood that. Still.. The endings, even though I /knew/ what they were, still felt like a suckerpunch to the nose. An already broken nose.

Though I decided that it didn't matter which endings I got in the endgame because... Because I was going to reject it and substitute my own. So as for my ending.. The crew didn't go back to the ship, and it also didn't get sucked through the relay. They all stayed with the ground troops to help keep them alive while I took care of teh reapers. Now I'm debating if I Took the on the verge of dying anyway Anderson, and allowed /him/ to control the reapers so as to keep everyone, including the Geth alive, Because really.. Aside from Shep.. Anderson could /totally/ control those SOBs. Or.. If I took the destroy ending where Shep lives and crashes to the ground with the rest of his crew still trapped on earth. *nods* there were a crap ton of Turians on the ground on earth.. I /know/ they had Dextro rations.. They had to. And it's.. earth.. We could totally figure out a way to grow Dextro food for Garrus and Tali.. Besides.. The Reapers were targeting large cities.. I'm sure there are still some Rural areas which were mostly untouched that could be grabbed up and used for food production. At least.. that's how /my/ endings go.

So that's it Bioware, So not buying another Bioware/EA game again, unless it's at a used game store, and even then likely not because it'll probably have that stupid online Pass. But for sure never buying one new again, unless they fix not only the flashback bug, but the endings. And STill I reject the current endings, they simply did not happen that way, and substitute my own.

[CommanderWilliams]

Bioware, why u make me suicidal. That was horse **** donkey doo-doo, just like DA2. Never again.

[NeoVassal]

I don't ever want to get attached to Bioware characters ever again if they die in horrible and completely random ways for forced emotion like Tali and Garrus on the planet. I found the other character deaths handled pretty well, but that was just a slap in the face and a middle finger to the fans who loved those two so much.

I will definitely not buy another Mass Effect game. (Or Dragon Age unless DA3 is really, really good and the FANS like it, not the paid-off video game review sites.) I can see Bioware is trying to make it into Halo which is fine, money and all that, but I really missed the RPG feeling Mass Effect 1 had.

Headcannoning my Shepards endings and moving on the find another game series to love. Thanks anyway, Bioware.

[chaosomegas]

no ill buy biowares games because they write great story for mass effect yes ends suck but they had end shepherd story and they can't write every possible ending because it would take 20 disc game 2 discs for the game 18 discs for endings. ill be happily buy for me4 because mass effect story

[FuzzyFreaks]

I certainly won't be pre-ordering any more bioware games, and I'll be scouring reviews to make sure they don't pull this type of ****.
I loved DA1, but saw the crappy reviews of DA2 and decided to give it a miss, and I kind of wish I'd done the same with ME3 because the ending is really clumsily handled and pretty much negates any replay value which is one of the big draws of the series for many people.

[Weeboss]

I can't imagine buying anything they make Day 1 any more. I'm not boycotting them or anything, but my faith has been shaken.

[Arokel]

Posted a couple of comments here but never actually answered the title question. Not a fan of the endings but the rest of game exceeded my expectations in term of emotional impact.

Let me name a few of the things that made the game for me. Grunt's assumed heroic sacrifice only to emerge covered in gore and hungry. Mordin and his sacrifice. His doing the song at the end, and not finishing, made it all the more emotional. Thane's death and his prayer for Shep's salvation. There are many more.

It actually gives me new hope for BioWare.

Modifié par Arokel, 09 mars 2012 - 05:07 .

[jbauck]

Rykoth wrote...

People need to get over it.

You don't like the endings. So what?

I know that what I say may sound trollish but... cry more. Seriously.

I see people who are complaining about no "happy endings." Guess what. Mass Effect is not a /happy/ franchise. It is a dark franchise, and as opposed to Dragon Age where they touted dark fantasy yet gave us way too many optimistic outcomes, Mass Effect is touted as dark, and it lives up to it.

Then I see people who complain about the Deus Ex comparisons.

Guess what.
Quarians built the Geth, the Geth rebelled, and... anyone who knows the end of that plotline knows what comes next as a possibility. Guess what? All of that is blatant Battlestar Galactica.

Biotics? Spectres? All vaguely resemble the frickin Jedi. Star Wars.

Let's not even go look at the Reapers, who may as well be Cylons AND the Borg, citing both BSG and Star Trek.

So you don't like the endings. Get over it. Again. Is it how you would hav ended it? No? Again. It's the end of a great franchise, and I've said it before. Such a thing is GOING TO BE POLARIZING. That does not mean it is a bad ending as a fact, it means as opinion you do not like it. And I have never seen a single TV show or even a movie series (that wasn't just a movie of a novel) have a conclusive ending that everyone agreed on, that wasn't polarizing. It's normal.

Threatening Bioware for no business because your Shepard didn't get to fart out rainbows and ride unicorns with a Love Interest, is quite frankly.... immature.

In your argument to get people to calm down, you have hit the nail on the head for why this sucked so bad: movies and tv shows are your examples, and yes, when those have endings I don't like, I shrug it off.  But a video game is the only medium where multiple endings are even possible, so yes, in a video game, you really can make everyone happy and it doesn't have to be polarizing - by including all the multiple endings, from "Reapers Win" with an ending cutscene that shows the next race that rises up 50k years later finding a beacon and getting a vision of Reapers coming, to "Shep Wins" fast-forward some numbers of years to the big honkin' statue of Shep on the Presidium of a rebuilt Citadel.

If I want a static ending I have no control over, I'd read a book.  If I want to be spoon-fed the authors vision, with no input on my part - again ... book.  Or, in the case of the new overall theme of ME3, introduced at the very, very end out of nowhere in contradiction to everything that came before, I could've just read this: http://www.online-li...lley_percy/672/  and saved myself a great deal of time, effort, and money.

Deciding not to do business with BioWare anymore because I don't like their product anymore is not immature.  BioWare told me that I was driving the story and making choices that mattered, and apparently, they lied.  It was not actually possible to win this game.  For me, the end of ME3 feels like a game of three-card-monty.  Left, right, or center ... you can't win, because it's a scam.

With the premise introduced at the 11th hour - that organics are doomed to be destroyed by synthetics, full stop, end of story, no arguments allowed - then the Reaper Solution is actually better for the galaxy as a whole than the endings we were given.  In order for beating the Reapers alone to constitute "winning", the Reapers and the Catalyst have to be wrong - but all of the choices for the ending that we were given assume that the Reapers were right.  At the end, the Catalyst tells us flat out that we're not worth saving in our current form because we're freakin' doomed anyway.

Do I want a happy ending, where Shepard gets to live and retire and go fishing somewhere?  Yes.  My sense of cosmic justice - which doesn't actually exist in the real world, and can only exist in fiction, like this video game - wants that ending.  I also want an ending where the Reapers win, and yes, I want the ending we were given, where Shep beats the Reapers, but only at a terrible cost that destroys galactic civilization as we know it.  Y'know ... a >range< of endings where the choices are more than "what are the few ragtag survivors of galactic destruction composed of: a) organics organics and synthetics or c) magic organic/synthetic hybrids?"  Because, at that point ... who the hell cares?