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SERIOUS: ME3 total thoughts (huge, quality post) BW, please look!


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#1
HarroSIN

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As a player who purchased each game in the trilogy on the day of release (or in 2 and 3's case, stood outside GameStop at midnight), I have some very mixed feelings after finishing the latest installment just over three hours ago. I didn't want to start a new thread, but I intend to make this a quality post. I'd like to highlight both my good and the bad reactions to the plot in Mass Effect 3, as well as some personal nitpicks in the footer (mostly technical, and as a programmer myself I feel compelled).

I sincerely hope that this thread catches BioWare's attention. If a single game designer or writer reads this, I will be content; the time I took to write this will be justified.

I tried to select the most valid points and create a rant-free post.

Disclosure: This thread contains spoilers. I completed the game in twenty eight hours with a Female Shepard Infiltrator who was almost exclusively paragon. Everyone survived the previous suicide mission and all possible supporting characters are alive or in a position to appear in Mass Effect 3.

Anyway, I'd like to start off with the GOOD points first:

I knew what I was getting into even before Mass Effect 3 was announced: the prequel's ending made it very clear. The prologue set the tone and urgency of the situation perfectly. There are three moments which stand out the most for me: Mordin's sacrifice during the release of the genophage cure, Shepard’s failure on Thessia at the hands of Cerberus/Kai Leng, and the final confrontation with the Illusive Man atop the Citadel. I was on the edge of my seat during the latter, and I truly believe it was one of BioWare's finest moments in writing -- the pinnacle of suspense.

An excellent job bringing back all of the surviving squadmates in some form or another. The problem with creating so many new cast members is that the writers will now have to take care of them all: I understand fitting everybody back in was a hard job, but BioWare got it done. Some needed to be retired for specific reasons (Mordin, Thane, and Legion), but they were done so in good faith and for good reasons.

The new characters of Vega and Allers look, sound, and act more human than most in the series: kudos to BioWare on that. However, they do not come without their own respective complaints: Vega was way too generic and forgettable while Allers was an out-of-place modern valley girl.

As far as the ever-so-popular romance side stories go, I feel very satisfied. Shepard romanced Garrus in Mass Effect 2 and continued to do so in the sequel. I have to admit I was surprised (and relieved) that the relationship was referenced throughout the game and not just during the cliche before-the-final-mission sex scene. The last scene with Garrus on Earth before the final push was especially sweet. On a side note, I felt that the addition of homosexual characters were tasteful: Cortez was written the farthest away from the stereotypical flamboyant style. Traynor was a bit more promiscuous (maybe too obvious).

Unfortunately, nothing is perfect. Here's the single BAD point in Mass Effect 3:

My sole reason for working up the will to create this post in the first place. I was onboard for everything: since the first mission on Eden Prime in the original Mass Effect up until the elevator rose to meet the Crucible for the final decision. I loved every second. What I did not love was the ending...

"Not loving the ending" is an understatement. I downright hated the ending. It's bad. Not even good for bad: just bad.. I came into the final minutes of the Mass Effect trilogy thinking about every decision I ever made during the past three games combined: and for what? For a vague explanation of what the endings would entail before I chose one. And even after the fact, all three endings are EXACTLY the same save for a differently colored flash of light during a pre-rendered cutscene. This has to be the most arbitrary choice for a conclusion.

But it's the content which gets me the most, and I'm sure I am not the only one who could agree. After everything we've been through, how does a twenty second cutscene of Joker, EDI, and Garrus exiting the Normandy "wrap things up?" Where's everyone else? Where's the rest of my squad and crew? After curing the genophage for the krogan and liberating Rannoch for the quarians, where's the reward? There's no closure or a hint of such... the cheesy clip of Shepard twitching his/her arm under the rubble before the credits doesn't count. I know BioWare was aiming for a darker, emotional ending, but there are other ways to achieve this. Honestly, it came off as a little spiteful.

I'm on the fence about a proper ending because I'm not expecting one. I'm not wishing for a "happily-ever-after" Disney ending where Tali and the other quarians remove their support masks for the first time in centuries, or where Wrex and Eve have little krogan children running around. Unless BioWare takes the path of Bethesda with Fallout 3 and repairs the ending by opening it back up for exploration and continuing with the story/tying up loose ends with a huge DLC release (expansion pack), I can't see myself purchasing any: it wouldn't make a difference in the end anyhow.

Real idea: I'm not going to tell BioWare what to do and what not to do, but here's my two cents. Instead of working on several small to mid-sized DLC missions, concentrate on one or two big expansion packs which work post-game; big like Dragon Age: Origins Awakening or the Grand Theft Auto IV episodes. Get the main squadmember voice actors back (I'd rather not have moments like we did in Overlord or Lair of the Shadow Broker where my squadmates just stared blankly at me like a deer caught in headlights).

In conclusion (or if you didn't want to read the above): This game was worth sixty dollars. This game was worth waiting in line at Gamestop until midnight. The writing is everything I expected and more up until the ending where I was let down hard.

I'd like to see what other people have to share.

. . .

As a bonus, here's some technical suggestions for BioWare to improve on in their future Mass Effect titles:


* If you're going to use pre-rendered FMV cutscenes, export them at a more appealing resolution and frame rate: I know they are used to mask the loading times. (I'm a PC gamer so I don't have the same troubles that XBOX 360 and Playstation 3 users have with their limited hardware and disc seeking). Use your CGI team (nice trailer) to create some cool looking scenery and characters (minus Shepard, for obvious reasons) for these FMVs. Take a page from Square's book: Final Fantasy VIII, a Playstation game from 1999, has fantastic video cutscenes which look better than their in-game counterparts even by today's standards.

* Provide some more video options for PC players. I know this is a console port, but really: at least let us increase the anti-aliasing sampling rate and texture detail. Some of these textures (Anderson's formal outfit, for example) look downright awful. You don't need to go overboard like Skyrim, but if you're going to ship the game on multiple DVD-ROMs or via digital download there's no reason they can't look better.

* All non-critical characters which don't have a unique head model look out of place (or the other way around). Upgrade the character face generator with more realistic skin tones (and better hair: not every male in the future has a crew cut -- I know I don't).

* In-game DLC management like Dragon Age: Origins had. This is minor. Just thought it would look nicer. :)

Modifié par HarroSIN, 08 mars 2012 - 08:48 .


#2
dethduck

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Welcome to the club of about 30 other threads right here, each one saying essentially the very same thing. But yeah, wet needed just one more.

#3
HarroSIN

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dethduck wrote...

Welcome to the club of about 30 other threads right here, each one saying essentially the very same thing. But yeah, wet needed just one more.


I expected as much. I tried to avoid this forum until I finished the game. One more is better: 31 feels like a lucky number anyhow.

#4
KillSlash45

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Well really I see a lot of people who got mad about the ending and then all of the sudden they hate the rest of the game too. They say the whole game's writing is bad, enemies are too easy, and so on.

I really think the core issue is people didn't like the endings, then convinced themselves the rest of the game is bad as well.

#5
Agent911

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Honestly, I hope many more of these threads continue to sprout up. Could eventually cause them to do something about it.

#6
astrophyzcs

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 I agree with Agent911...while a consolidated thread would be preferable, these posts are a welcome sight. We need Bioware to know that we're not happy with the endings. No, we don't need to shamelessly bash the rest of the game (I'm of the opinion that barring the endings, the rest of the game was damn amazing), but there's nothing wrong with voicing our displeasure. Appeal to them enough and they might just listen--but we've got to do it in the right way. Maturely, respectfully, and well-thought out like the OP. Acting like a bunch of petulant kids isn't going to get us anywhere but ignored and denied. 

Modifié par astrophyzcs, 08 mars 2012 - 10:27 .


#7
KillSlash45

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Also,0-bombing metacritic because Bioware upset you isn't helping either. Just makes the cause look like a bunch of raging trolls rather than a sincerely upset fanbase.

#8
Olueq

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Yes, we all know the endings are terrible. I would like to know what ending is the supposed `good` one were told about.

#9
deimosmasque

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I haven't beaten the game yet so I can't comment on the endings but I did want to thank the OP for giving a truly fair and balanced review of the game stating both their likes and dislikes rather than just going "ARGH RAGE ENDING SUCKS!" like has been happening since before the game was released.

#10
Deviant Ingredient

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I agree with deimosmasque. I too have not finished the game but I am aware of the endings and don't exactly like what I hear about them. I am glad that the OP wrote something thoughtful and articulate. I think that will more likely get Bioware's attention instead of just rage bashing. Personally I adore the game so far and even though the endings sound less than stellar it will not take away from the fact that I still like the game.

#11
bl00dsh0t

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I think the OP's thoughts and mine are perfectly aligned on this. Up untill the last 10 mintes of the game it was an emotional rollercoaster ride that only had the occasional hiccup/facepalm moment for me. Then came the ending...Damn it is even worse than Deus Ex HRs. At least there we got jensen waxing poetically about the ending we chose...in hindsight it made sense for that game to some degree. Ahh well I aint regretting the purchase but the inevitable metacritic bombing this ending was bound to trigger cannot possibly have been lost on Bioware...

#12
HarroSIN

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deimosmasque wrote...

I haven't beaten the game yet so I can't comment on the endings but I did want to thank the OP for giving a truly fair and balanced review of the game stating both their likes and dislikes rather than just going "ARGH RAGE ENDING SUCKS!" like has been happening since before the game was released.


I've seen a lot of this. The Metacritic reviews for this game (the real user score, not the phony "critic" reviews from magazines who played the game for one or two hours and didn't finish it) are abysmal. Anything below a 5 out of 10 is undeserving. If I cared enough to register an account on their website, I would contribute an 8 out of 10 for the first and second Mass Effect, and a 7 out of 10 for this game. I would have to dock two points for the ending: it's that much of a letdown...

According to Steam, I played the first Mass Effect for over 78 hours; the second game I have four playthroughs. I cannot see myself playing through this game even a second time: there's just no reward incentive.

#13
neilthecellist

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Yeah I don't want to play this game a second time. Knowing that all the endings are literally the same minus a few different pre rendered cutscenes... Yuck. I'm grateful that I got to play Mass Effect 3, but the ending is worth docking down 4 points in my book. What could've been a 9/10 game (1 point off for now VERY limited conversation options), is now a 5/10 in my book.

Regrettably, I see people at my college actually discouraging others not to buy the game ("If you have an XBOX, just rent the XBOX version so you can return it, you can't do that with the PC version!")

As a PC gamer, I have to agree with my XBOX colleagues at my school. This game isn't worth KEEPING, it's just a play-once and put it away title now.

#14
DiegoProgMetal

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HarroSIN wrote...

snip...

But it's the content which gets me the most, and I'm sure I am not the only one who could agree. After everything we've been through, how does a twenty second cutscene of Joker, EDI, and Garrus exiting the Normandy "wrap things up?" Where's everyone else? Where's the rest of my squad and crew? After curing the genophage for the krogan and liberating Rannoch for the quarians, where's the reward? There's no closure or a hint of such... the cheesy clip of Shepard twitching his/her arm under the rubble before the credits doesn't count. I know BioWare was aiming for a darker, emotional ending, but there are other ways to achieve this. Honestly, it came off as a little spiteful.

...snip.


Did you get the "Shepard alive" scene even choosing the "Merge" (green) ending?

#15
DiegoProgMetal

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neilthecellist wrote...

snip

This game isn't worth KEEPING, it's just a play-once and put it away title now.


Exactly.

#16
HarroSIN

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I believe you only get that scene by having the war assets counter over 4,000 points and choosing the destroy ending (red). It's the only ending where Shepard doesn't clearly die.

Modifié par HarroSIN, 08 mars 2012 - 05:41 .


#17
Mr. Big Pimpin

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DiegoProgMetal wrote...

neilthecellist wrote...

snip

This game isn't worth KEEPING, it's just a play-once and put it away title now.


Exactly.

I'm keeping it in hopes of an ending DLC. It's a sad, unlikely hope, but it's all I've got.

#18
xNortronx

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It's not like ME 3 is a bad game, far from that, but it's endings made all the previous games not worth playing.

A satisfatory ending in ME3 would made a lot of people buy or replay ME1 and ME2, but what I expect to see in a few weeks is a lot of "pre-owned' ME3 titles on Gamestop, etc. I also expect people selling ME1 and 2 because why play a trilogy that ends so bad? And when I say bad, I am not talking about a sad end, but a bad written one. I have no problems with sad endings.

I am so pissed, that I had to create a Bioware account to let things of my chest here.

Modifié par xNortronx, 08 mars 2012 - 05:54 .


#19
neilthecellist

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Oh yeah, my old workplace just got a shipment of old ME1, 2, and 3 copies to resell on eBay! Yup, this is what I thought, the ending really is that bad!

#20
JasmoVT

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Yeah, once I figured out that without going multiplayer to build up war readiness I could not get enough war assets to save earth I just stopped playing. There is no point to it any more. I do not mind Shep dying, if his death means something, but if you believed their lies that this was a single player game it means nothing, earth is destroyed, you entire crew dies including those poor souls who die a slow miserable death stranded on a planet with too few people to establish a viable population. The creative staff needs some serious psychiatric treatment and probably some heavy duty medication. The ending renders everything totally meaningless. Far better to have settled somewhere and raised a family even if in the end they were wiped out that to fight to save it all and lose.

Thn there are the logical inconsistencies. I can take the mass effect gates being destroyed, but all tech. Come on, all the races were space faring without the tech, that is how they discovered the gates in the first place.

I am so mad I simply cannot concieve of anything bioware could do to get me to buy another one of their products and I have bought everything since BG.

#21
Kharizma

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@OP...very well put.

I have loved every minute of my multiple playthroughs of ME1 & 2 and was looking forward to multiple playthroughs of 3. I'm not sure I can bring myself to do it, knowing the endings. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, I stopped after my night with my LI and will play out the rest of the story in my head, thanks. It's not that I expected it to be an upbeat ending because of the choices along the way, but I still held out hope for some consideration of the amount of sacrifices made throughout the series. But what was the point of following certain paths when they all converged, regardless, and nothing truly affected the outcome? Or if it did, it was so minimal that it was hardly worth the effort to make those choices. Yes, I know the multiple endings show different outcomes, but not noticeably so. The amount of work/sacrifice Shep put into this, and consequently we as players, was not only not rewarded, it felt as though it was laughed at.

I don't know if it was laziness or something else that gave us such mean-spirited, depressing endings. But I think we all deserved better.

#22
HarroSIN

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I dislike that the multiplayer is mandatory for achieving the "best" ending (in which Shepard is still visibly alive beneath the rubble). I imported my 'ultimate saved game' from ME1/ME2 with every squad and supporting character satisfied. I finished every single side mission and recruited every possible unit to the war effort, and still my rating was only 3,800. I had to play a few rounds of multiplayer just to push it over 4,000 so that I could watch that five second bonus FMV. I don't hate co-op, but this must suck for XBOX 360 players who need to pay for online play just to get the best possible ending.

#23
xNortronx

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I thought I read someplace that ME3 would be 30% to 40% bigger then ME2. It didn't feel that way though. The game, specially the ending, seemed like was made in a hurry.

Maybe If they had put a little more effort in the end, there wouldn't be so much hate now. Think of it... Its the end of the trilogy. Everyone put a lot of hours of their lives just to see this ending. It should have being very very well made and not "this thing" they presented us.

Modifié par xNortronx, 08 mars 2012 - 06:26 .


#24
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*

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bl00dsh0t wrote...

I think the OP's thoughts and mine are perfectly aligned on this. Up untill the last 10 mintes of the game it was an emotional rollercoaster ride that only had the occasional hiccup/facepalm moment for me. Then came the ending...Damn it is even worse than Deus Ex HRs. At least there we got jensen waxing poetically about the ending we chose...in hindsight it made sense for that game to some degree. Ahh well I aint regretting the purchase but the inevitable metacritic bombing this ending was bound to trigger cannot possibly have been lost on Bioware...


But... Deus Ex HRs / Deus Ex ending are not horrible... :?

#25
Voods07

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HarroSIN wrote...

I believe you only get that scene by having the war assets counter over 4,000 points and choosing the destroy ending (red). It's the only ending where Shepard doesn't clearly die.


I had 4160 and chose the red, Shepard died for me, no breathing ending. My galactic readyness was 69%...and if that prevented me from getting the breath ending then **** YOU Bioware.