48 réponses à ce sujet

[Count Viceroy]

When you approach the box he'll tell you its private, ask him what he's going to do about it, and he'll attack you.

[Tennmuerti]

Count Viceroy wrote...

When you approach the box he'll tell you its private, ask him what he's going to do about it, and he'll attack you.

I see thanks, this is probably becouse I usually pickpocket anyone with a unique name as soon as I see them and I had his key in both cases. I guess no armor for the militia on my next playthrough then

[Beechwell]

Count Viceroy wrote...

When you approach the box he'll tell you its private, ask him what he's going to do about it, and he'll attack you.

Really? In my game he even unlocked it for me (must have been a conversation choice earlier).

[Forumtroll]

In my game I refused to find his daughter and offered to kill him.

[Count Viceroy]

Beechwell wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

When you approach the box he'll tell you its private, ask him what he's going to do about it, and he'll attack you.

Really? In my game he even unlocked it for me (must have been a conversation choice earlier).

Tennmuerti wrote...

I see thanks, this is probably becouse I usually pickpocket anyone with a
unique name as soon as I see them and I had his key in both cases. I
guess no armor for the militia on my next playthrough then [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

I pickpocketed him once and he still approached me even though I had the key. And I've never had him open the chest for me. Heh, yeah guess it depends on how you go about it, then.

Also, you give his hidden supplies to the milita, so they end up with gear either way.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 26 novembre 2009 - 05:01 .

[RunCDFirst]

Count Viceroy wrote...
I pickpocketed him once and he still approached me even though I had the key. And I've never had him open the chest for me. Heh, yeah guess it depends on how you go about it, then.

Also, you give his hidden supplies to the milita, so they end up with gear either way.

Duh! 
I just sold his supplies back to him. Never even thought of that.

[AelfwynStonehelm]

FINALLY! I beat the *&^%$#@! mission, AND kept all defenders alive. Only took about 387 attempts.

(Okay, it might not have been 387. Sure felt like it, though.)

It had more to do with luck than skill, though. On the final, successful attempt, there just didn't happen to be anyone already badly damaged when I got down to the Chantry -- so all I had to do was use Alistair and Shale to draw aggro, and Wynne and my character (a mage) to constantly heal anyone who took too much damage.

And because it was pure luck, my complaints remain the same. This mission needs fixed.

Couldar wrote...

easiest way to do it is just to ignore the knights at the top of the hill, they can handle themselves. just get down to the others as soon as possible, dont wait for the messenger, and get out in front of the barrier with your tank to draw aggro quickly.

On one of my many attempts, I (half) tried that. I left two of my party up top with the knights, and sent the other two down to the Chantry right from the start of the fight. But when I did that, at the point when the messenger comes for you the *&^%$#@! game auto-teleported the two who had gone down back up to the top with the knights. That sort of gave me the impression that you must fight the zombies up top before going down to the Chantry.

I didn't try it with the whole party, though. Maybe then the messenger doesn't come to get you at all…?

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

It'd also be nice f you could
actually command Dwyn and the elf guy to join the militia instead of
the knights that clearly don't need any help.

Yes, that would be a nice change, too -- and it would make a whole lot more sense too, given that half the reason you supposedly needed Dwyn was just to boost the morale of the villagers. How's he supposed to do that from up on the hill with the knights? That's a bit of a plot hole, isn't it?

I hope somebody at BioWare is reading this.

seren2 wrote...

Do not let such a small thing spoil the rest of the game for you.
The helmet is not that great anyway.

Well, I'm a perfectionist. It irks me greatly to leave anything undone. I even hung around Lothering far longer than necessary, traveling back and forth to Flemeth's hut, farming XP off the random encounters just so that Leliana could get Traps and I could do the silly little quest for that villager female.

Similarly, it's just a matter of principle that I must save all the defenders -- even if they are a bunch of drunken, useless peasants who aren't worthy to lick my boots.

(Well… maybe that red-headed tavern wench, or the blonde girl with the stupid younger brother you have to find… but then, it wouldn't be my boots.)



You're right about the helmet, though.

RunCDFirst wrote...

I
suggest not doing Redcliffe first. You should grab a few levels before
heading to the beleaguered village if you want to save all the
townsfolk. It's actually pretty easy if it's not your first
stop.

Actually, I did Redcliffe fourth. I did Warden's Keep, the Stone Prisoner, and the Broken Circle before it, so my party were all around 9th-10th level when we arrived at Redcliffe. I think the game scales the enemies in each mission to match your current level.

[Bullets McDeath]

I would suggest not letting tiny rewards like this grab so much of your focus and force you to repeat parts of the game to the point where you don't enjoy it and must rant on the internet. As I'm sure you've noticed by now, that helmet is not worth 10 hours of your life or however long it took you. Just win the fight and move on

[Cheiron the Centaur]

What it takes to beat this, is two mages who can both Heal (Wynne and a well trained Morrigan will do just fine). I tried doing it with only one mage, but I never managed to get less than 2 dead defenders.

Anyway, I agree with outlaworacle that the reward isn't really worth all the effort.

Does this mission need fixing? I don't think so. Keeping everyone alive is not supposed to be easy.

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 26 novembre 2009 - 07:06 .

[AelfwynStonehelm]

outlaworacle wrote...

I would suggest not letting tiny rewards like this grab so much of your focus and force you to repeat parts of the game to the point where you don't enjoy it and must rant on the internet. As I'm sure you've noticed by now, that helmet is not worth 10 hours of your life or however long it took you. Just win the fight and move on

You're right, the helmet was not worth the amount of effort it takes to earn it -- and that is another reason that my complaints about the zombie fight in Redcliffe are entirely valid.

And providing players with a place to "rant on the internet" about flaws (real or perceived) is one of the purposes of this forum. It's called Customer Feedback.

[Cuiva]

I did it easy with my mage.. first thing I did was to put the ward-combo that paralyzes everyone in the middle of the barricade, before my party could charge in. That pretty much solved any early casualties the defenders could've taken.

[TheDrunkenPanda]

I found that Glyph of Repulsion helps, a lot.

[Itkovian]

I would think that the difficulty of this fight is intentional: keeping the villagers alive is meant to be extremely difficult and unlikely.

Not every scenario must allow complete success, after all.

Itkovian

[Vinditater]

It is possible, I completed it on hard and received the Helm of the Red. Becomes alot easier when you just heal whoever is getting zombiestomped. Fairly easy in all honesty.

[Duck and Cover]

OK I just saved everyone (the named ones at least) on normal diff. Funny it seemed impossible my first play thru the game. it's easy now.



I tried putting 2 people down the hill- that doesn't work as they are warped up when the conversation starts (asking you to go to the chantry). No problem, I run as fast and straight as I can and start healing soon as I get there. It's acutally quite easy if you heal the militia men and named ones. As they proved crowd control themselves. I had to down about 4 lesser lryium pots, but no biggie. Only 2 non named militamen died.



Question: where is this helmet? I don't think I got it.

[Garret Dorigan]

/facepalm



That's the point of this topic. None, as in not one, as in none, of the militia may die. If they do, then YOU DON'T GET THE HELMET.



It's awarded by Bann Teagan after the fight if no one died.

[MS3825]

I was able to save all the knights from death, eventually keeping them out of the fire.
When the messenger came, the amount of undead forced me to lure a couple at a time back up the hill to the knights. It was the second place I went after the mages circle though so I was fairly low level. ALL the militia men died in my game, even though I played it a dozen times trying to save them and dying myself.

I was severely annoyed by the placement of the baricades too. Someone who is dead wont mind having their house torn down and used to save everyone else. They should put up a few more... or something.

Modifié par MS3825, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:11 .

[Duck and Cover]

my mistake, I thought it was only the named ones. who cares about a bunch of no names. problem is I don't remember when they fell. I was using the tab key quite a lot to make sure everyone was up. I didn't let anyone drop below 50% health. Regeneration and heal was all it took. They must have dropped before I got there. Now I want to reload and try again.



I could do it if the conversation didn't warp my entire party to the top of the hill. I'm so sick and tired of party warping.

[MS3825]

Duck and Cover wrote...

I could do it if the conversation didn't warp my entire party to the top of the hill. I'm so sick and tired of party warping.

I agree... but more annoying than that is Shapechange reverting due to conversations, and then not being able to use it for two minutes afterwards. I mean... can't Alistair tell the bad guys (and bad ladies) we're Grey Wardens here to put an end tot heir evil?

[hawat333]

Mmm, you say there is a special reward if you keep all defenders alive. So logically, if you manage to do a nearly impossible task, you deserve a reward for it. That's ok.

On the other hand, you state that this nearly impossible task is way too hard. Well, that's why it's hard, and that's why you get a reward if you complete it.

Where is the problem?

[MS3825]

What exactly IS the reward? I figured it was supposed to be impossible to save them all but if the reward is good enough I might just save this for later when I get to my second character.

[Nighteye2]

AelfwynStonehelm wrote...
2: Fix the fight in front of the Chantry, so the player actually has some measurable chance of saving all the defenders. There must be numerous ways to do this. You could simply reduce the number of initial enemies, for example -- there could be the same number in total, just fewer of them already present when you first come down the hill. Or hey, here's an idea: How about letting the defenders have enough barricades to actually protect themselves? Exactly what is the friggin' point of putting up barricades with huge gaps in between them? Is the inconvenience of taking two extra steps really supposed to thwart those zombies? The defenders should be completely surrounded by barricades -- and if the zombies had to hack their way through those barricades to get to them, then that might delay them long enough that the player has time to get down there. (It would also make the messenger's line about the zombies "attacking the barricades" accurate.) The player can attack and destroy barricades, so there's no good reason the zombies can't be programmed to do it too.

I refuse to proceed any further with the game, until I beat this mission without losing any of the local defenders -- but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life replaying the same mission, either. If I become convinced that it really is impossible, I'll just quit playing and give the game away to somebody who enjoys pointless exercises in futility.

It's not that hard, really. You don't need to keep everyone alive. When you walk down and hold tab, you see a few NPCs with empty health bars - if they die, you still get the helm. Remember to pause frequently  to check the health of the NPCs and to cast your healing spells on them, along with spells like force field if you have it.

I got the helm on hard without even really trying. And then I sold the helm because there are much better helms available.

[AelfwynStonehelm]

hawat333 wrote...

Mmm, you say there is a special reward if you keep all defenders alive. So logically, if you manage to do a nearly impossible task, you deserve a reward for it. That's ok.
On the other hand, you state that this nearly impossible task is way too hard. Well, that's why it's hard, and that's why you get a reward if you complete it.
Where is the problem?

Okay, so let's set aside the insane difficulty of this Nearly Impossible Task—as well as the suicidal knights who charge right into a fire they lit themselves, and the unrequested teleportation that moves party members to places they don't want to be, and the sheer stupidity of trying to block a zombie horde with a scattering of widely-spaced barricades. Let's pretend none of those things matter (even though they do).

In that case, the only remaining problem would be that this particular Nearly Impossible Task has a reward that isn't even remotely worth the effort it takes to earn it.

You are quite right that Nearly Impossible Tasks merit rewards—and those rewards should reflect the difficulty of the tasks that earn them. This one doesn't. Not even close.



SPOILER:



For those who haven't gotten it, the reward for not allowing any of the defenders to die is the "Helm of the Red," which has the following stats…

Material: Steel (Tier 3)
Armor: 1.75
Fatigue: 2.48%
Requires 22 Strength
+1 Dexterity
+10% Fire Resistance



EDIT: Yes, Tier 3. It doesn't even have any rune slots. Even if all those other nuisances (appallingly stupid AI and unexplained teleportations and grievously irrational setting premises) were fixed, the difficulty of the task simply is not balanced with the reward here—and it ain't just me who thinks so, as plenty of other comments have demonstrated.

However, I'd like to point out that in my original post I didn't even know that yet. I was complaining about all those other things. You know, the ones we were just pretending didn't matter.

Modifié par AelfwynStonehelm, 29 novembre 2009 - 01:05 .

[Frozenmojo]

Forumtroll wrote...

Keep Dwyn alive though. His sword isn't worth it, but getting Sten's sword is worth it for the approval rating.

Nah, even if you kill Dwyn you can go loot Sten's sword at his place. Go for it I say, damn coward of a dwarf.