108 réponses à ce sujet

[MetioricTest]

ZLurps wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

...snip...

ZLurps wrore...

What we knew, doesn't equal to what characters knew.

And yet Joker, Jacon. Donnelly and Gabby all knew Cerberus was doing something about the Reapers.

So your point?

I think it's moving somewhere above your head.

Then explain it.

So Cerberus are a pro-human terrorist group, trying to create shock troops.

Shepard dies.

Council ignores Reapers, Cerberus don't.

Some of Shepard's friends join Cerberus to fight Reapers.

And you're saying this makes no sense because in ME1 Cerberus never mentioned the Reapers and got expanded? 

So? Nothing was changed. They just expanded it.

Sorry, I don't think this is going anywhere.

Niether do I because you have no apparent point and now are just being childishly evasive.

[ZLurps]

MetioricTest wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

...snip...

ZLurps wrore...

What we knew, doesn't equal to what characters knew.

And yet Joker, Jacon. Donnelly and Gabby all knew Cerberus was doing something about the Reapers.

So your point?

I think it's moving somewhere above your head.

Then explain it.

So Cerberus are a pro-human terrorist group, trying to create shock troops.

Shepard dies.

Council ignores Reapers, Cerberus don't.

Some of Shepard's friends join Cerberus to fight Reapers.

And you're saying this makes no sense because in ME1 Cerberus never mentioned the Reapers and got expanded? 

So? Nothing was changed. They just expanded it.

Sorry, I don't think this is going anywhere.

Niether do I because you have no apparent point and now are just being childishly evasive.

Well, I guess that's one way to put it.

[RogueBot]

I'm not sure it was character assassination.

In ME2, Jacob was smooth for the most part, but the perceptive person could see his true self slip out occasionally, such as when he referred Femshep as "the prize", i.e. another notch on his belt.

As a guy, I have to say most of us have put on a show, at some point, to get laid. If our true self coming out is "character assassination", then we've all been character-assassinated.

[MetioricTest]

RogueBot wrote...

I'm not sure it was character assassination.

In ME2, Jacob was smooth for the most part, but the perceptive person could see his true self slip out occasionally, such as when he referred Femshep as "the prize", i.e. another notch on his belt.

As a guy, I have to say most of us have put on a show, at some point, to get laid. If our true self coming out is "character assassination", then we've all been character-assassinated.

To be honest if you romance Jacob half the game is Femshep going "I want to **** you" and then eventually getting round to it.

If that was Jacob's sole goal then he kinda ****Ed up

[RogueBot]

MetioricTest wrote...

To be honest if you romance Jacob half the game is Femshep going "I want to **** you" and then eventually getting round to it.

If that was Jacob's sole goal then he kinda ****Ed up

He ****ed with her head, and his delay made her want it more. How many guys can say they've screwed with Commander Shepard, Goddess of the Universe's, head like that.

He's a bit of a jackass, there's no denying it.

[Exile Isan]

Skullheart wrote...
Ant talking about character assassination/derailmnet, why no one has said anything about liara 180° turn from ME to ME2?

I like badass Liara so you won't get complaints for me on that one. And she's still nerd Liara so yeah.

In some wierd way Jacob leaving Shepard isn't too out of character if you think about the fact that Jacob has never stuck to anything in his life before: He left the Alliance, he left the Corsairs, he left Cerberus, he left Shepard and he'll leave Brynn too.

[MetioricTest]

RogueBot wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

To be honest if you romance Jacob half the game is Femshep going "I want to **** you" and then eventually getting round to it.

If that was Jacob's sole goal then he kinda ****Ed up

He ****ed with her head, and his delay made her want it more. How many guys can say they've screwed with Commander Shepard, Goddess of the Universe's, head like that.

He's a bit of a jackass, there's no denying it.

He also impregnated Female Hawke.

[mtmercydave09]

MetioricTest wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Couldn't really give a **** about Jacob tbh, but man, what they did to Ashley.......

Ashley was a pretty bad character to begin with, it's not surprising they tried to distance themselves from here.

Besides she has some funny lines now, even if Citadel ****S her over

Ashley was a bad character because Bioware made her that way.  She put humans first, can't really blame her, but she did change over time.

I also saw her as the only LI that really stood up to Shep, and the only one that could fully relate to shep being a career military man since she's career military herself.

I would have prefered they not turn Ash into an alcoholic in ME3 and instead worked on having her interact with the crew, and maybe a couple more scenes with Shep since she's basically gone from the first 2/3 of the game after being gone for practically all of ME2.

[Exile Isan]

mtmercydave09 wrote...
I also saw her as the only LI that really stood up to Shep, and the only one that could fully relate to shep being a career military man since she's career military herself.

That can apply Kaidan as well. And if you play as a biotic Kaidan has that in common with Shepard as well as being career military, because Kaidan is career military too.

I would have prefered they not turn Ash into an alcoholic in ME3 and instead worked on having her interact with the crew, and maybe a couple more scenes with Shep since she's basically gone from the first 2/3 of the game after being gone for practically all of ME2.

This I agree with. It's ridiculous that Javik interacts with the crew more than Ashley does and he has even less reason to than she does. Hell, Adams moves around the ship more that Ashley does, so disappointing.

[PwrdOff]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Couldn't really give a **** about Jacob tbh, but man, what they did to Ashley.......

Lost her writer, that's what.

Ash had some good content that didn't make it into the release.  I didn't think what was there was all that bad, but she just felt like an afterthought.  Still love her though.

[mtmercydave09]

Exile Isan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...
I also saw her as the only LI that really stood up to Shep, and the only one that could fully relate to shep being a career military man since she's career military herself.

That can apply Kaidan as well. And if you play as a biotic Kaidan has that in common with Shepard as well as being career military, because Kaidan is career military too.

I would have prefered they not turn Ash into an alcoholic in ME3 and instead worked on having her interact with the crew, and maybe a couple more scenes with Shep since she's basically gone from the first 2/3 of the game after being gone for practically all of ME2.

This I agree with. It's ridiculous that Javik interacts with the crew more than Ashley does and he has even less reason to than she does. Hell, Adams moves around the ship more that Ashley does, so disappointing.

Ahh I see, never saved Kaiden so I guess I didn't know.

I know right, Javik interacted more than Ash did.  Ash really did get screwed since she has so much history with Shep and the rest of the crew.  If on Rannoch Tali commits suicide, you go talk to Ashley she'll be distraught and say that Tali was like a "little sister".  If that's the case they should have had Ash go around the ship and talk with Tali then.

I mean they did have Garrus go around and talk with Joker, Javik even went to the kitchen on the Normandy when James was cooking.

[mtmercydave09]

BNN999 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Couldn't really give a **** about Jacob tbh, but man, what they did to Ashley.......

Lost her writer, that's what.

Ash had some good content that didn't make it into the release.  I didn't think what was there was all that bad, but she just felt like an afterthought.  Still love her though.

That's true, she did have some cut content.  It should have made it to the release though.

I still love her too, but she did feel like an afterthought.  They took an important character from ME1 and basically bastardized her.

New writer explains it, but it isn't an excuse, Bioware dropped the ball.

They even had a chance to redeem themselves with Ash content for the Citadel DLC, but they didn't.  All they did was have a short bar scene and didn't even give her the option to invite her to the apartment.

[Volc19]

If you want to talk about character assassination, we have to bring up Legion. His entire philosophy on individuality and the future for the Geth are completely flipped in ME3. It's like his writer ironically wrote Legion using Reaper Tech to make the Geth all individuals (and, therefore, alone, something a Geth can't tolerate), he left the write-up of it on a counter while he was making coffee, and then someone picked it up and filed it in.

[Exile Isan]

Volc19 wrote...

If you want to talk about character assassination, we have to bring up Legion. His entire philosophy on individuality and the future for the Geth are completely flipped in ME3. It's like his writer ironically wrote Legion using Reaper Tech to make the Geth all individuals (and, therefore, alone, something a Geth can't tolerate), he left the write-up of it on a counter while he was making coffee, and then someone picked it up and filed it in.

I think they did a fair job of explaining Legion's change of mind. The way I see it Legion realized that being individuals is actually a strength not a weakness. He tells you that when the quarians attacked they had uploaded some of their programs into the "dyson sphere" they were building, some were destroyed and couldn't recovered, and like he says for every one of their programs that is destroyed their own intelligence dimmed. Now imagine if all of the Geth had been uploaded to the sphere? Their entire race would be gone.

It's not great, but I think it works well enough.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 04 avril 2013 - 03:32 .

[PirateMouse]

Anyway, as for Jacob, I have no idea what people are talking about. Jacob didn't have a romance subplot. He was just a cool guy you got to smack the Collectors with, and then he hooked up with some random woman.

*plugging my ears*

I repeat, Jacob did not have a romance subplot!

[Volc19]

This doesn't change the fact that Legion did a COMPLETE 180 in character. ME2!Legion and ME3!Legion are the same only in body and in name.

Also, ME2!Legion thought like the Geth. He wasn't even a single personality, he was just a sample of Geth. It is likely most Geth thought like ME2!Legion, and to them individuality is to be alone and isolated, to be surrounded in silence. While Legion may have been 'enlightened' by his time linked up to a Reaper, the rest of the Geth weren't.

ME3!Legion effectively rebelled against his people to change them in a way they didn't ask for or desire. He took an entire species and effectively killed it, replacing it with his ideal vision of what Geth should be.

[PwrdOff]

I just see it as Bioware needing the Geth to be enemies in the game somehow to add some variety, and Legion naturally having to side with Shepard against them.

[Volc19]

I get that bit, but forcing the Geth to be individuals just sends an awful message. It implies that the Geth need to be more like everyone else. They have to learn the merits of being an individual and should be more like organics, instead of us overcoming how different we are and being comrades regardless.

And I despise how Legion was made to be the avatar of this mindset, destroying his character as we knew it.

[Exile Isan]

mtmercydave09 wrote...
I mean they did have Garrus go around and talk with Joker, Javik even went to the kitchen on the Normandy when James was cooking.

I know with Kaidan he talks about teaching Joker how to be a better poker player, he plays cards with James, talks to Liara over the comm, and talks to Adams about Liara after Thessia (and mentions that they had several conversations after Noveria about her mother back on the old SR1).

Garrus can be seen talking with Joker in the cockpit, James in the mess hall, Javik, one of the crew members, and Liara in the lounge. Talks to Liara, Wrex, and Tali (several times) over the comm. And the romance content with him is ridiculously good (even better than Liara's from what I hear I haven't finished my Liaramancer yet).

If you get Javik before Grissom Academy you can find him in the engineering stairwell where Jack used to hang out and he'll tell you he was exploring the ship, we can see him hanging out the James in the mess hall, the aforementioned conversation with Garrus (one in the lounge and one over the comm), and he talks to Liara three times over the comm (and it's implied that she talks to him several other times, and Tali twice over the comm (once when she first comes on board and then when she drunk dials him). And then his arguement with EDI in her AI core.

And what do we get the with Ash? The aftermath of her getting drunk with James. She's just... there doing nothing. Even her Citadel DLC romance content sounds like crap. *has never romanced Ash*

Modifié par Exile Isan, 04 avril 2013 - 03:40 .

[PwrdOff]

The lack of crew interaction makes Ash's drunk scene really bad in context, since she comes off as just the lonely one with no friends chugging a bottle by herself in the observation deck, instead of some endearing playful scene that it was probably intended as.

[Iakus]

Exile Isan wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...
I mean they did have Garrus go around and talk with Joker, Javik even went to the kitchen on the Normandy when James was cooking.

I know with Kaidan he talks about teaching Joker how to be a better poker player, he plays cards with James, talks to Liara over the comm, and talks to Adams about Liara after Thessia (and mentions that they had several conversations after Noveria about her mother back on the old SR1).

Garrus can be seen talking with Joker in the cockpit, James in the mess hall, Javik, one of the crew members, and Liara in the lounge. Talks to Liara, Wrex, and Tali (several times) over the comm. And the romance content with him is ridiculously good (even better than Liara's from what I hear I haven't finished my Liaramancer yet).

If you get Javik before Grissom Academy you can find him in the engineering stairwell where Jack used to hang out and he'll tell you he was exploring the ship, we can see him hanging out the James in the mess hall, the aforementioned conversation with Garrus (one in the lounge and one over the comm), and he talks to Liara three times over the comm (and it's implied that she talks to him several other times, and Tali twice over the comm (once when she first comes on board and then when she drunk dials him). And then his arguement with EDI in her AI core.

And what do we get the with Ash? The aftermath of her getting drunk with James. She's just... there doing nothing. Even her Citadel DLC romance content sounds like crap. *has never romanced Ash*

There are two other moments for Ash. but they require specific circumstances:

If you do the Tuchanka Bomb mission after the coup, she'll come out of her room and hang out by the memorial wall, talking about how she misses Kaidan.

if you do the Tuchanka Bomb mission after Rannoch as well, Ash will talk with Tali over the intercom about Virmire.

[Exile Isan]

iakus wrote...
There are two other moments for Ash. but they require specific circumstances:

If you do the Tuchanka Bomb mission after the coup, she'll come out of her room and hang out by the memorial wall, talking about how she misses Kaidan.

if you do the Tuchanka Bomb mission after Rannoch as well, Ash will talk with Tali over the intercom about Virmire.

I doubt many people are going to do that though. Spirits know I haven't.

I wonder if Kaidan has anything like that...

Modifié par Exile Isan, 04 avril 2013 - 06:13 .

[kalasaurus]

Exile Isan wrote...

iakus wrote...
There are two other moments for Ash. but they require specific circumstances:

If you do the Tuchanka Bomb mission after the coup, she'll come out of her room and hang out by the memorial wall, talking about how she misses Kaidan.

if you do the Tuchanka Bomb mission after Rannoch as well, Ash will talk with Tali over the intercom about Virmire.

I doubt many people are going to do that though. Spirits know I haven't.

I wonder if Kaidan has anything like that...

He does.  On the shuttle back he'll talk about how he was thinking about Ash and misses her.

Later on the Normandy, Kaidan talks to Garrus over the intercom about Victus's sacrifice.

[MetioricTest]

Volc19 wrote...

I get that bit, but forcing the Geth to be individuals just sends an awful message. It implies that the Geth need to be more like everyone else. They have to learn the merits of being an individual and should be more like organics, instead of us overcoming how different we are and being comrades regardless.

And I despise how Legion was made to be the avatar of this mindset, destroying his character as we knew it.

You do realize that Legion wants the Geth to become individuals because if they don't, the Quarians will kill them.

Right?

[robertthebard]

Volc19 wrote...

This doesn't change the fact that Legion did a COMPLETE 180 in character. ME2!Legion and ME3!Legion are the same only in body and in name.

Also, ME2!Legion thought like the Geth. He wasn't even a single personality, he was just a sample of Geth. It is likely most Geth thought like ME2!Legion, and to them individuality is to be alone and isolated, to be surrounded in silence. While Legion may have been 'enlightened' by his time linked up to a Reaper, the rest of the Geth weren't.

ME3!Legion effectively rebelled against his people to change them in a way they didn't ask for or desire. He took an entire species and effectively killed it, replacing it with his ideal vision of what Geth should be.

Here's the thing though, all of the Geth had the same upgrades.  This isn't speculation based on what I think, this is documented immediately after Legion comes into the war room, and he puts up the holo displays of a single geth, a networked set of geth, and a single geth with the Reaper code.  Since Legion had been initially 1100ish geth, it is logical that their perspective would be shared by the rest of the geth, and this position is indeed supported by the Prime unit that tells Raan that the Quarians are welcome to stay on Rannoch with the geth.  In short, the geth had experienced being truly alive, and wanted to continue to be truly alive.