112 réponses à ce sujet

[KingNothing125]

Aerich wrote...

The Reaper's ascension is basically their will placed upon all things.  Shepard's ascension allows free will to continue.  Obviously love still exists as examplified by Joker and EDI.

I disagree.

The Reapers' ascension is their will placed upon all things, yes. So is Shepard's "synthesis" ascension. The only difference is that Shepard is imposing his will on the entire galaxy, instead of the Reapers. Shepard becomes the very thing he fought against throughout the entire saga.

How can we possibly know what exists after the "merge"? Is Joker even Joker anymore? I don't think so.

[Storenumber9]

Also, I just kind of realized this, but they could have avoided the entire war by just blowing up the citadel.

[Sajuro]

Storenumber9 wrote...

Also, I just kind of realized this, but they could have avoided the entire war by just blowing up the citadel.

or
Catalyst: Those are your choices.
Shepard:.... -gets on comm with Hackett- Hey Hackett, get everyone to fire at the citadel.
Hackett: What?
Shepard: Did I stutter? Blow the **** out of the citadel.
Catalyst: You can't do tha-gets its virtual ass blown into actual dust-
-two years and several billion credits later-
Shepard: How the hell did I survive?
Zaeed: Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.

[Kronner]

Yes, Synthesis is the best ending IMHO. However, it is tough for me to accept that Shepard should decide this for everyone in the galaxy.

[AlexMBrennan]

Really? Guadian made the Reapers to solve the problem of synthetics killing everyone by making different synthetics that kill everyone - for all you know they are doing that autonomously, with the Crucible/Catalyst thing being necessary only if you want to change their standing orders.

A more important question is why the Reapes didn't just blow it up, or - given that they were able to move it to Sol without much difficulty - move it into the nearest star given that they knew it's the only way they could possibly be defeated.

[Aerich]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I disagree.

The Reapers' ascension is their will placed upon all things, yes. So is Shepard's "synthesis" ascension. The only difference is that Shepard is imposing his will on the entire galaxy, instead of the Reapers. Shepard becomes the very thing he fought against throughout the entire saga.

How can we possibly know what exists after the "merge"? Is Joker even Joker anymore? I don't think so.

Like I said, it's the only ending that guarantees the cycle of synthetics vs organics ends.  This doesn't mean other conflicts won't pop up, just that the repeating of cycles end.  Reapers control, Shepard just changed things physically.  It's the whole idea that Legion and EDI represented, do they have a soul even though they're machines?  If so, then Shepard's ascension would have no effect on the individual wills of the people in the galaxy.

My ending had Joker walking out of the Normandy with EDI.  The two of them held hands, smiled at each other, and looked off into the sunset while in each other's arms.  I interpret that as Joker still retaining his humanity.

[KingNothing125]

I reject the idea that "merging" synthetics and organics is the only way to break the cycle. I spent the rest of ME3 convincing the Geth and the Quarians to lay down their arms. I convinced EDI to embrace humanity (and Joker) as-is. No quasi-metaphysical mumbo-jumbo required. That proves chaotic organics and orderly synthetics can co-exist without becoming one with each other.

Self-determination is what Legion and EDI represented, and your Shepard craps on the idea of self-determination when he decided everyone in the galaxy was going to be a cyborg whether they wanted to be or not.

Modifié par KingNothing125, 09 mars 2012 - 11:17 .

[Zen_Mojo]

The biggest problem with the endings is that they were predicated on a lie: "Organics and synthetics WILL destroy each other, it is inevitable."

Funny. I seem to remember getting Geth Primes to show up at the crucible to build a machine that will inevitably wipe out their semi-synthetic former overlords/false gods. Oh, and I was flown to the battlefield by a self-aware sentient space ship.

And now the guy sitting in the DRIVER'S SEAT for a flotilla of city-size deep-space Eldritch Horrors is offering me a proposition? "Oh, yeah, so my entire plan to wipe out the galaxy in order to maintain systems of order, annihilation, and renewal through galaxy-wide extinction has clearly been thwarted by your reckless devil-may-care attitude and use of diplomacy. All of my methods are clearly obsolete, HOWEVER, I still believe that everything you have accomplished is a waste of time and you should just listen to me and kill yourself and follow one of these three options which are clearly your only options, trust me!"

As I was limping toward that green shaft of light, I actually stopped in my tracks, turned around, and fired several shots at the AI. Because here I was being given a lecture by the ARCHVILLAIN of the piece. The dude responsible for creating the reapers, giving them purpose, and instructing them on what to do.

The ending was frankly kind of insulting considering how beautiful the rest of the game was. And it's obvious that the endings are all the same ending with only different color laser light shows. It's telling that when people were predicting how ME3 would end, one of the most common ways people hoped it would not end was with Shepard being forced to make a heroic sacrifice.

They really need to pull a Fallout 3: Broken Steel, give us some serious tragic endings as well as some serious happy endings based on the CHOICES our characters made, and maybe even a small playable epilogue where we're allowed to wander the galaxy and/or bridge of the Normandy celebrating how awesome we are and getting emails from the people we saved if we got the good ending.

Because, seriously, my character Romanced Miranda Lawson and the first things going through his mind as he was sacrificing his life were, in this order, Anderson, Joker, and Liara.

Really? Liara? She wasn't even the first woman he fell in love with on his mission, and she sure wasn't the last woman he fell in love with. Why Liara? Because the stock footage is all the same, that's why.

[Aerich]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I reject the idea that "merging" synthetics and organics is the only way to break the cycle. I spent the rest of ME3 convincing the Geth and the Quarians to lay down their arms. I convinced EDI to embrace humanity (and Joker) as-is. No quasi-metaphysical mumbo-jumbo required. That proves chaotic organics and orderly synthetics can co-exist without becoming one with each other.

Self-determination is what Legion and EDI represented, and your Shepard craps on the idea of self-determination when he decided everyone in the galaxy was going to be a cyborg whether they wanted to be or not.

Shepard, the hero of this story, can convince synthetics to work together with him, but what happens after Shepard dies?  He got everyone together because pretty much the whole god damn galaxy respected him, including synthetics.  At any point after his death, something could easily trigger another war with the synthetics and who knows if there will be another Shepard to stop it.

Legion and EDI represent moral and philosophical free will (they want to do good/evil), while Shepard's ascension is a physiological change.  People still remain the same, they are just made up of more than organic material.

[KingNothing125]

Shepard's ascension isn't just a physiological change, though. Joker's infatuation with EDI is based on the fact that he is an organic, and EDI's interest in Joker is facilitated by her decision to accept organics as they are, and her decision to let go of her synthetic tendency to strive for order.

Take a recent episode of Futurama as an analogy. An alien removes the Planet Express crew's genders and they become completely bored with each other. The attraction is gone. Joker and EDI holding hands at the end of the "merge" is just bad writing. (As further evidence of bad writing, also consider that EDI was on Earth during the final battle; how did she get on the SR2?)

[Secane]

@_@? I thought the EDI "Body" is like a remote control car. EDI is still on the SR2 no? The Body is just remotely controlled? (Hence the keep in tightbeam range?)

In any case, when I saw how happy Joker and EDI were, I know that's the right ending. Love wins in the end.

[KingNothing125]

No, EDI's body is in London. You can find her using a computer terminal near Anderson when you walk around talking to all your companions.

[Cody211282]

Evil_medved wrote...

All endings are happy, because cycle is broken one way or another.

You know, except for the trillions that are going to die slowly and the fact that civilization has been put back an untold amount of years because of the loss of the relays. Hell the Quarians are probably supper happy right now, they all get to die around earth and not the homeworld I help them take back.

Ya these endings are nothing but sunshine.

[Cody211282]

Sajuro wrote...

Storenumber9 wrote...

Also, I just kind of realized this, but they could have avoided the entire war by just blowing up the citadel.

or
Catalyst: Those are your choices.
Shepard:.... -gets on comm with Hackett- Hey Hackett, get everyone to fire at the citadel.
Hackett: What?
Shepard: Did I stutter? Blow the **** out of the citadel.
Catalyst: You can't do tha-gets its virtual ass blown into actual dust-
-two years and several billion credits later-
Shepard: How the hell did I survive?
Zaeed: Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.

And just like that you made a better ending then paid writers did.

Really though this made me laugh and i really needed that right now.

[Secane]

KingNothing125 wrote...

No, EDI's body is in London. You can find her using a computer terminal near Anderson when you walk around talking to all your companions.

But EDI's Brain is still on the SR2 right? Can't she just make a new body? (Or even keep copies as spares?)...... oh my... Joker is one lucky guy!

[thoaloa]

I never knew adding/removing the effective mass of an object could rewrite your DNA into some stable mix of robotics and organics. (Not sure how DNA can make cybernetics, the mass effect gates just rewrote reality itself in a green fuzzy glow)

Also never knew you could set the mass of an object to (VANISH form reality in a stylish red hue). With the precision of an arbitrary hammer separating "synthetic life" from anything made of inorganic materials.

Or blue the most inefficient method of command update possible requiring an extraordinary amount of element zero just to tell the reapers to bug off.

Basically all the endings are bad and all of them have you talking to some insane AI that is clueless.

[Quiron-br]

*sorry, fail post*

Modifié par Quiron-br, 09 mars 2012 - 01:18 .

[atheelogos]

PerfectLife wrote...

The Synthesis ending is the cannon best ending.

agreed. Life should take that final step of technological evolution.

[atheelogos]

Zen_Mojo wrote...

The biggest problem with the endings is that they were predicated on a lie: "Organics and synthetics WILL destroy each other, it is inevitable."

No not a lie. The Reapers and their master AI have been around for billions of years and over that amount of time they've watched AI's rise up againist their masters. Apparently its happened 100% of the time.

So you can't say for certain that it will happen again, but they could say that they have very good reason to believe it will.

[nitefyre410]

Its the best option of the 3 but it does not mean its a good ending to the series but its the only F U option you have.

Basis behind it still makes absolutely no sense... All the endings are just a failure by Bioware to be high minded with concepts the writers knew very little about. Especially with the whole game up until the point building up to a earn you happy endings. Now if Synergy keep the relays intact and allow Shepard a good bye during the process with kid asking do "do you think this to be solution there will still be chaos." and Shepard give a speech kinda like he gave to Legion in ME 2. That would have been some what better... the way it is now it just.. 3 endings with different color of light

[Zen_Mojo]

atheelogos wrote...

The Reapers and their master AI have been around for billions of years and over that amount of time they've watched AI's rise up againist their masters. Apparently its happened 100% of the time.

So you can't say for certain that it will happen again, but they could say that they have very good reason to believe it will.

Considering they've wiped out every single advanced civilization on schedule every 50,000 years, their perspective is a little skewed.  Unless you honestly believe every 50,001 years a sentient AI pops up and decides to wipe out all advanced life in the universe.

Oh, right.  That does happen.  It's called the Citadel and it uses the reapers.  The catalyst has never even waited for the cycle to end, it's never given it a chance or an opportunity.  And here it is, watching synthetics and organics fighting against it and its winning argument is, "Please ignore all of these Geth and Quarians and Krogans working together, this has never happened before, no organic has ever gotten this far, but obviously everything I believe is right."

And they never even let Shepard say those five simple words, "Look outside.  You were wrong."

Modifié par Zen_Mojo, 09 mars 2012 - 07:34 .

[AxisEvolve]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I reject the idea that "merging" synthetics and organics is the only way to break the cycle. I spent the rest of ME3 convincing the Geth and the Quarians to lay down their arms. I convinced EDI to embrace humanity (and Joker) as-is. No quasi-metaphysical mumbo-jumbo required. That proves chaotic organics and orderly synthetics can co-exist without becoming one with each other.

Self-determination is what Legion and EDI represented, and your Shepard craps on the idea of self-determination when he decided everyone in the galaxy was going to be a cyborg whether they wanted to be or not.

But destroy would have wiped out EDI and the Geth. If I learned anything from their missions it was that synthetics had as much of a right to exist as us. How can you destroy them all after learning that?

With synthesis they all survive... except for Shepard. Yes they are transformed. But doesn't it solve almost every problem?

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 09 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[Arokel]

I'll keep my meat bag body just the way it is thank you very much.

[Lexagg]

paralitos wrote...

Shepard dies for peace and ends the cycle of organic life harvesting (s)he knew what (s)he signed up for and became a legend for future generations

In my definition, "happy ending" is the one that makes me feel happy. It doesn't have to be Disney, it just has to be satisfying. Saving Privaty Ryan had a happy ending. ME3 didn't.

[lockdown51]

So in the end the "best" solution is to become the Borg?