112 réponses à ce sujet

[Rip The Reaper]

For the very first time I wanted to speak for my shepard becasue did he really just take those options? and not even say anything about how if ONLY the reapers could be destroyed then there was a chance to stop the chaos. with EDI and the geth there was a chance!!!

[humes spork]

Taleroth wrote...

Control is happy enough because Shepard can live on in a way. And I can dismiss the Guardian as simply insane.

That's...not what I took out of the control ending after seeing it myself. Shepard seizes control long enough to order the Reapers back to dark space, but it kills him/her and with no control mechanism and the Citadel presumably offline for good the Reapers can never be recalled to continue the cycle. There's no "Shepard gets uploaded and lives on" that can be easily inferred, there.

[Taleroth]

humes spork wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Control is happy enough because Shepard can live on in a way. And I can dismiss the Guardian as simply insane.

That's...not what I took out of the control ending after seeing it myself. Shepard seizes control long enough to order the Reapers back to dark space, but it kills him/her and with no control mechanism and the Citadel presumably offline for good the Reapers can never be recalled to continue the cycle. There's no "Shepard gets uploaded and lives on" that can be easily inferred, there.

Enough people have stated something like you do that I've had to rethink the position.

[humes spork]

SwobyJ wrote...

And Catalyst knows it may be wrong - it just contains the core idea of "AI in the galaxy = bad". The Synthesis choice in itself is a 100% new one to it, one that it thought was blocked off as a possibility (and which Reaperization is the exact negative version of).

I have my doubts the Catalyst is even an AI, personally. In the ME universe, AI's can adapt and overcome paradoxes such as creating synthetics to kill organics to keep synthetics from killing organics, and existential crises and crises of purpose to self-determinate. The Catalyst obviously can't, which leads me to believe it's actually a rogue VI.

[Obvakhi]

I wanna say Destroy is the good/happy ending, since it's the only one where Shepard can survive. But it just doesn't feel right knowing the geth & EDI would be destroyed. All that time spent helping the geth, not to mention they are helping the quarians rebuild their homeworld.

Just doesn't seem like something a paragon would do.

Modifié par Obvakhi, 09 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[thesnake777]

Synthesis is so stupid. Im sorry but all I see it as is Reaper Harvesting Lite. So we rewrite all the DNA and make everyone into a single organic-synthetic species? What BS. It defeats the entire purpose of what Shepard has been fighting for through out the entire series.
If this option is to be taken seriously there should have been a option in the beginning of the game to say screw it and line up for Reaper Harvesting......

[Qutayba]

Besides being the most "magical" of the endings, it also runs counter to the notion that "diversity is strength" - one of the central themes of the series, particularly if you're a paragon. It's the one I chose, because the other options were enslave (making TIM right) or exterminate.

[Faerlyte]

Am I the only person who thought that the whole synthesizing choice might just be an awful thing to do from a moral standpoint? Never mind the spacemagic stuff. Considering they never really "define" what exactly happens in this process of synthesizing (the predominant reason I refused to choose it) it could be very shady on the moral spectrum for anyone shooting for a moral decision so I can't really consider it a "happy" ending. We're talking about millions of people here that wouldn't have a say in the matter - you're in essence forcing synthetics to merge with organics without giving them a choice. And maybe after it's all said and done they won't know what happened because they will have become something new, but that doesn't change the fact that it kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I couldn't do that. Organics and synthetics both deserve the choice and I'm not going to take it from them.

The problem with the whole "the cycle is stopped, it's a happy ending theory" is that through the course of these games our emotional attachment has formed around the characters we've interacted with and our Shepards - for many people there is little fulfillment in saving nameless, faceless NPCs that are supposed to represent all life in the galaxy because it's your comrades that you know and love, and you want to come out on the other side with them. It's a sad ending regardless of the cycle being stopped if you're emotionally invested in your comrades.

Modifié par Faerlyte, 09 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[Taleroth]

Qutayba wrote...

Besides being the most "magical" of the endings, it also runs counter to the notion that "diversity is strength" - one of the central themes of the series, particularly if you're a paragon. It's the one I chose, because the other options were enslave (making TIM right) or exterminate.

When was that a theme? It's true, it's absolutely true, but it never seemed to be anything the writers realized.

[Manou1]

mopotter wrote...

loungeshep wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

All endings are happy, because cycle is broken one way or another.

That's how I look at it. And life will go on.

This would have been a game I would  not be interested in playing and would not have purchased.  Actually, this is the problem I'm having.  I no longer have an interest in playing it, but I paid $70 for it.

ME3 has more than one ending and should have had something where the player, can have some hope that Shepard will make a life with their LI and friends.  After defeating the reapers.

edit.

I agree there should've been multiple endings, happy, sad and very dark etc. to make everyone happy. All I wanted was that beach property for me and Tali  but noooo.. instead I get to see Tali in a jungle planet with Joker and EDI even though she was fighting alongside with me in London like WTF?

Modifié par Manou1, 09 mars 2012 - 09:26 .

[Glondor]

Taleroth wrote...

Qutayba wrote...

Besides being the most "magical" of the endings, it also runs counter to the notion that "diversity is strength" - one of the central themes of the series, particularly if you're a paragon. It's the one I chose, because the other options were enslave (making TIM right) or exterminate.

When was that a theme? It's true, it's absolutely true, but it never seemed to be anything the writers realized.

I wouldn't say it's a strong theme, but remember the xenophobia of Pressley and Ash in ME1. Yet you formed an interspecial crew that took down Saren. In ME2, even though you work with Cerberus, a fairly xenophobic group, you still recruit the best in the galaxy from multiple species. ME3 is all about getting everyone united for the big assault and Javik specifically mentions it was the Protheans' lack of diversity in their tactics that made them so vulnerable to the Reapers.

[Glondor]

Synthesis is only a happy ending if you accept the Catalyst's assertion (unsubstantiated and counter to Shepard's experience so far) that synthetics will inevitably destroy organics. I'm not sure if there's a hero equivalent of the Evil Overlord List but if so it should contain the following points:

• Don't believe any unsubstantiated claims by a character you've just met
• Really don't believe any unsubstantiated claims by a character, whom you're only just discovering existed in the concluding scene.
• For goodness' sake, really, really, really don't believe any unsubstantiated claims by the chief antagonist, whom you've only just discovered existed in the concluding scene

Case in point: Catalyst said Shepard would die if he chose destruction, but he didn't

[Greed1914]

Rip The Reaper wrote...

For the very first time I wanted to speak for my shepard becasue did he really just take those options? and not even say anything about how if ONLY the reapers could be destroyed then there was a chance to stop the chaos. with EDI and the geth there was a chance!!!

Yeah, I don't get that.  Why exactly does the destroy option have to destroy all synthetics?  We're in what amounts to the control station for the Reapers, so why can't we just get rid of them?  I could even see that maybe the mass relays have to go since the same thing responsible for the Reapers made those, but why also EDI and the Geth?  Why does this cycle get zero credit?  I guess teaching an AI what it means to be human and creating peace between synthetics and organics doesn't count. 

This is what gets me more than anything.  The Quarian/Geth conflict is spot on with what the Child was talking about, and yet I had no chance to say, "Look at what we accomplished.  You're obviously wrong.  It might have worked out that way every time until now, but now it's different."

Manou1 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

loungeshep wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

All endings are happy, because cycle is broken one way or another.

That's how I look at it. And life will go on.

This
would have been a game I would  not be interested in playing and would
not have purchased.  Actually, this is the problem I'm having.  I no
longer have an interest in playing it, but I paid $70 for it.

ME3
has more than one ending and should have had something where the
player, can have some hope that Shepard will make a life with their LI
and friends.  After defeating the reapers.

edit.

I
agree there should've been multiple endings, happy, sad and very dark
etc. to make everyone happy. All I wanted was that beach property for me
and Tali [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] but
noooo.. instead I get to see Tali in a jungle planet with Joker and EDI
even though she was fighting alongside with me in London like WTF?

Yeah, I'm right there with you.  I was pretty broken up when I realized that I'd be leaving Tali.  I know I preserved as much life as possible and whatnot, but I still felt horrible. 

Modifié par Greed1914, 09 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[nitefyre410]

The more i think about I thought Synergy was the best option or three bad endings and I don't mean bad as in said. I mean bad as is poor presented... really its just Bioware trying to come off as high minded and "True Art is Angsty" non- sense and it just plane... dumb. No matter how I look at it - it just plain bad... all three.

[humes spork]

Glondor wrote...

Synthesis is only a happy ending if you accept the Catalyst's assertion (unsubstantiated and counter to Shepard's experience so far) that synthetics will inevitably destroy organics.

I don't necessarily accept this as true. Like a lot of people brought up, the galaxy is pretty humped in the end. Synthesis may very well be the galactic civilizations' best shot at mutual survival. The game doesn't elaborate on the physiological ramifications of synthesis across species', so it may very well be true that, for example, the (formerly) dextros can now eat levo food so the quarians and turians won't suffer food shortages and potentially starve in Sol. Maybe they won't even need to eat at all.

Maybe the Normandy crew won't die of old age, or maintaining genetic diversity is no longer a major concern to viable populations so species like the elcor won't die out. Maybe even due to mutual synthetic lineage species can actually crossbreed like the asari, so Garrus and Tali could potentially have a kid. Heck, peace between the quarians and geth yield the secondary consequence of geth boosting quarians' immune systems allowing the quarians to live without their suits in months when otherwise it would have taken generations to reacclimate.

Hell, considering asari (and prothean) ability to share knowledge and memories, a consequence of synthesis could be that consciousness is somehow networked or networkable, allowing the species to pool knowledge, resources and intellect to build their own mass relays (or discover alternate routes of FTL) and rebuild galactic civilization in years rather than centuries or millenia. Maybe they won't even need to, if they can build something similar to the prothean communications system or use QEC to project consciousness or up/download into synthetic bodies.

The point is, there are a lot of implications of the merge ending that aren't discussed to necessarily rule it out one way or another as an unhappy ending.

[Glondor]

@humes spork Yeah I can't argue with what you say, there may be several upsides to the synthesis.

But for me, the synthesis ending was explicitly proposed by the Catalyst as a solution to an inevitable synthetic-organic conflict. Yet I didn't feel that was a problem in the Mass Effect universe. I'd made peace between the Quarians and the Geth, (and it was the Quarians who had started both wars, the Geth were just acting in self-defence). I'd seen EDI grow as a person and start a relationship with Joker. To me, synthetics and organics were getting along just fine.Given that, synthesis felt unnecessary and worse, deciding the fate of others when freedom was what I was fighting for.

[Greed1914]

Glondor wrote...

@humes spork Yeah I can't argue with what you say, there may be several upsides to the synthesis.

But for me, the synthesis ending was explicitly proposed by the Catalyst as a solution to an inevitable synthetic-organic conflict. Yet I didn't feel that was a problem in the Mass Effect universe. I'd made peace between the Quarians and the Geth, (and it was the Quarians who had started both wars, the Geth were just acting in self-defence). I'd seen EDI grow as a person and start a relationship with Joker. To me, synthetics and organics were getting along just fine.Given that, synthesis felt unnecessary and worse, deciding the fate of others when freedom was what I was fighting for.

That is what makes this all so frustrating.  The final choice is presented in a bubble from the rest of your choices.  Here is this god Ai telling me that I have to choose from three options because of something that has always occurred, until now.  The very fact that Shepard is presented with that choice shows that there was a monumental shift in the cycle, so why couldn't that AI be persuaded that maybe the cycle was already over and didn't need some sort of weird input?  Just stop the Reapers, end of story. 

[AlexMBrennan]

@Glondor: More to the point, Catalyst had convinced TIM that he could control the Reapers, and since we all know how well that turned out I'd have thought that Shep would be a bit more careful when Catalyst presents a persuasive argument for not destroying Reapers.

Personally, I don't really think that Synthesis (forcibly convert everything to green husks to avoid destruction by synthetics) is much better than the original plan (forcibly convert everything to blue husks/goo to avoid destruction by synthetics). Either way you're forcing a superior evolutionary stage (that's the phrase Catalyst used) on others.
Further, wouldn't we sacrifice what makes us human and what we're fighting to save by picking Synthesis?

Or maybe the plot holes and silly technobabble was just too much, breaking my suspension of disbelief.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 mars 2012 - 11:17 .

[Glondor]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

@Glondor: More to the point, Catalyst had convinced TIM that he could control the Reapers, and since we all know how well that turned out I'd have thought that Shep would be a bit more careful when Catalyst presents a persuasive argument for not destroying Reapers. 

Yeah and it seemed really odd to present control as an option when I just spent 5 minutes trying to convince TIM that controlling the Reapers was a bad idea, no matter who's controlling them.

[frylock23]

I think all the endings are morally repugnant in their own ways:

1. Destroy - Wipe out the Reapers, end the cycle, but potentially commit two acts of genocide (Reapers, Geth) and one act of murder (EDI) in the process.

2. Synthesis - Force a merger of all organic and synthetic life into new, cyborg lifeforms. Force is the operative word. No one is asked if this is what they want. How does this differentiate you from Cerberus and its processing station on Horizon? And how are you not sacrificing the Galaxy's diversity when you do this (We are the borg; your culture will adapt to service us)?

3. Control - You take control of the Reapers. Who's to say that you won't ultimately become the next Guardian?

[Reiella]

Glondor wrote...

For goodness' sake, really, really, really don't believe any unsubstantiated claims by the chief antagonist, whom you've only just discovered existed in the concluding scene[/list]Case in point: Catalyst said Shepard would die if he chose destruction, but he didn't

By that token, you also shouldn't believe that you were actually going to destroy the reapers if you went for any of them.

You also probably shouldn't have trusted that the prothean schematic was a weapon and not a Reaper trap.

Although I would be amused with an ending ofShepard just stands at the Crucible until dying while the Reapers continue the cycle .

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

PDesign wrote...

Merge - Perfect Ending
Control - Happy Ending
Destroy - Bad Ending

Except Destroy doesn't destroy the Citadel