I definitely don't agree that it was forced in this game, it was just a quality some of the characters had and it was your choice whether you wanted to look into that further or not.
I agree it is sort of pushed on you a bit in DA2, but here its very passive so I can't get behind the griping about it. It's griping about the choices' very existence at that point which well, leads to bigger topics.
Does anyone else feel the homosexuality (and the sexuality in general) is a little forced?
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Templar_Blademaster
, mars 08 2012 07:02
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#27
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:25
darthclide
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It is nice to have people like you who can post things that I, myself, want to say, but have a hard time putting into words as 1. I am not very good at posting my thoughts in a manner type of way. I just say what I think, regardless of how "harsh" it sounds 2. I am a guy who thinks that being gay is immoral, so I am already at a disadvantage for organizing my thoughts in a way that don't sound too offensive to others.
In conclusion, I agree with everything you said, as I believe that games are turning towards "selling" this hot topic, rather than adding it into the game as "character development". In addition to what you said, I have seen gay couples in many other media forms (tv, movies, and books), and I have seen "bad ways" of implementing gay couples, and "great ways". I feel that as the game series as a whole progressed, EA had more and more influence, as this game's pro-gay agenda just felt like it was "corporately forced", and not natural.
In conclusion, I agree with everything you said, as I believe that games are turning towards "selling" this hot topic, rather than adding it into the game as "character development". In addition to what you said, I have seen gay couples in many other media forms (tv, movies, and books), and I have seen "bad ways" of implementing gay couples, and "great ways". I feel that as the game series as a whole progressed, EA had more and more influence, as this game's pro-gay agenda just felt like it was "corporately forced", and not natural.
#29
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:30
ScooterPie88
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I thought Cortez felt rather forced though I'm a straight male so that might be biased. Traynor I knew she was from the start and Allers was such a pointless addition to the game it defies description. The homosexual romances seemed to be trying to fix a problem I personnally felt wasn't there. Any of those issues seem trivial after the endings destroyed the franchise though.
#30
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:32
AwesomeDudex64
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Nope. Especially if you have a femshep with a dead Kaidan.
#31
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:36
Dendio1
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The worlds ending. People are doing things they normally wouldnt because tomorrow is not guaranteed. Joker even points this out. The people dancing are not doing it for fun, they do it out of necessity. By extension the sexual content may feel forced, but its just the result of the stress knowledge of impending apocalypse brings.
#32
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:37
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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Wrath of Bastila Shan wrote...
Can't say that any of this junk is a surprise or it snuck up on us, OP. It seems that alot of people (not all, though) wanted BioWare to put more, and more, and more sex and love triangles into this game- hetero or homosexual. I just feel like i'm one of the very few who thinks sexual relationships doesn't seem right in a video game. I really want to portray My Shep as a true leader, not emotional and engaging in a sexual relationship with a teammate. Stuff like that can bring discord, hatred, and strife, even in real life. I sometimes am afraid to initiate conversation with anyone, thinking i might trigger a love scene right there and then.
Just like Paralitos said about 12 or 13 posts above me, I too never had a LI in Mass Effect. I play because of the great story: putting aside differences by building friendships and alliances in unifying the galaxy's races to stop and destroy the threat of the Reapers.
My mainShep never had a LI in ME1 and ME2 because he was meant to more accurately express my own character and ethical decisions. I'm gay.
I ended up dancing with Cortez and kissing lol. Paramor achievement. Dammit! Reload.
Romance with Kaiden. Finally. Now let's move on and kill the Reapers. (Oh, I'm sorry, talk to Reaper God Child and end with ambigious conclusion)
#33
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:37
Valraine
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Honestly, I believe that the fact that homosexuality is brought up in the game created this illusion for you about it being "forced."
Was it forced when Jacob said he was going to have a baby? "Look I'm heterosexual, accept me!" I don't see that argument brought up;: heterosexuality being forced.
Now look at the romancing options, compare heterosexual LIs to those of homosexual LIs. You technically only have two for femsheps and ONE for mansheps; Kaidan is bisexual, so he doesn't really count, even if we count him in we see that there's not a lot of variety.
The two women by the Presidium commons were bringing up the subject of the realities of war and the loneliness it causes. It does by no means encourage you to engage in "adultery" if you're homosexual, the two end up in an argument in the end anyways so you could view it as a taboo and immoral thing to do, which it is not and which it's not meant to mean. In war, people get lonely and scared. The wife describes how their relationship was already "distant" before the war, it's just a break-up and she's discussing the way of how to tell him, since it may affect his morale, thinking about her and becoming distracted while on the battlefield.
Was it forced when Jacob said he was going to have a baby? "Look I'm heterosexual, accept me!" I don't see that argument brought up;: heterosexuality being forced.
Now look at the romancing options, compare heterosexual LIs to those of homosexual LIs. You technically only have two for femsheps and ONE for mansheps; Kaidan is bisexual, so he doesn't really count, even if we count him in we see that there's not a lot of variety.
The two women by the Presidium commons were bringing up the subject of the realities of war and the loneliness it causes. It does by no means encourage you to engage in "adultery" if you're homosexual, the two end up in an argument in the end anyways so you could view it as a taboo and immoral thing to do, which it is not and which it's not meant to mean. In war, people get lonely and scared. The wife describes how their relationship was already "distant" before the war, it's just a break-up and she's discussing the way of how to tell him, since it may affect his morale, thinking about her and becoming distracted while on the battlefield.
#34
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:39
AnImpossibleGirl
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Of all things...isn't alien "sex" more concerning and forced (Not that any of it is forced, literally)? I mean, just putting it out there.
#35
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:39
Axialbloom
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STTTTTEEEEEEVVVVVEEEE and everything that went with him was a bit forced and ackward at times. Allers is just a skank.
On the other hand, you had to re-re-romance Liara in ME3.
On the other hand, you had to re-re-romance Liara in ME3.
#36
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:40
Joolazoo
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I agree with you that sexual relationships shouldn't really be in the game, but I found that I really had no issue what so ever with getting in any sexual situations in ME3. I easily turned down cortez without even really being asked, as well as allers which was easy since she was pretty ugly. I romanced Liara and 95% of the time it seemed like we were just best buds so it didn't even feel like a romance.Wrath of Bastila Shan wrote...
Can't say that any of this junk is a surprise or it snuck up on us, OP. It seems that alot of people (not all, though) wanted BioWare to put more, and more, and more sex and love triangles into this game- hetero or homosexual. I just feel like i'm one of the very few who thinks sexual relationships doesn't seem right in a video game. I really want to portray My Shep as a true leader, not emotional and engaging in a sexual relationship with a teammate. Stuff like that can bring discord, hatred, and strife, even in real life. I sometimes am afraid to initiate conversation with anyone, thinking i might trigger a love scene right there and then.
Just like Paralitos said about 12 or 13 posts above me, I too never had a LI in Mass Effect. I play because of the great story: putting aside differences by building friendships and alliances in unifying the galaxy's races to stop and destroy the threat of the Reapers.
#37
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:42
StrangeSibby
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Cortez was my bro. I would've totally been his wingwoman when we went for drinks on the Presidium.
I felt it was all done quite tastefully. If Cortez had lost his wife on Horizon, this would be a non-issue. It's an important aspect of his character, as his significant other being kidnapped and processed by the Collectors is a significant motivator in his fight against the Reapers...and understandably so, it's kind of a distressing thing, so it's something he inevitably may mention. But you mention the significant other's gender and suddenly something is being shoved in your face.
People are gay, regardless of your personal ethics. You encounter so many people in the Mass Effect universe, you were eventually going to encounter one of them. Do what you would do in real life...and just deal with it. You're not forced to get to know him or even be his friend, and when he's on assignment with you he's strictly business. It's really a non-issue.
As for Traynor... My only complaint is she doesn't seem as well defined as Cortez, and if you do sleep with her it's kind of a casual fling rather than a real relationship. But I also don't think it's shoved in your face.
I felt it was all done quite tastefully. If Cortez had lost his wife on Horizon, this would be a non-issue. It's an important aspect of his character, as his significant other being kidnapped and processed by the Collectors is a significant motivator in his fight against the Reapers...and understandably so, it's kind of a distressing thing, so it's something he inevitably may mention. But you mention the significant other's gender and suddenly something is being shoved in your face.
People are gay, regardless of your personal ethics. You encounter so many people in the Mass Effect universe, you were eventually going to encounter one of them. Do what you would do in real life...and just deal with it. You're not forced to get to know him or even be his friend, and when he's on assignment with you he's strictly business. It's really a non-issue.
As for Traynor... My only complaint is she doesn't seem as well defined as Cortez, and if you do sleep with her it's kind of a casual fling rather than a real relationship. But I also don't think it's shoved in your face.
#38
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:42
Axialbloom
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Valraine wrote...
Honestly, I believe that the fact that homosexuality is brought up in the game created this illusion for you about it being "forced."
Was it forced when Jacob said he was going to have a baby? "Look I'm heterosexual, accept me!" I don't see that argument brought up;: heterosexuality being forced.
Now look at the romancing options, compare heterosexual LIs to those of homosexual LIs. You technically only have two for femsheps and ONE for mansheps; Kaidan is bisexual, so he doesn't really count, even if we count him in we see that there's not a lot of variety.
The two women by the Presidium commons were bringing up the subject of the realities of war and the loneliness it causes. It does by no means encourage you to engage in "adultery" if you're homosexual, the two end up in an argument in the end anyways so you could view it as a taboo and immoral thing to do, which it is not and which it's not meant to mean. In war, people get lonely and scared. The wife describes how their relationship was already "distant" before the war, it's just a break-up and she's discussing the way of how to tell him, since it may affect his morale, thinking about her and becoming distracted while on the battlefield.
I have actually seen MANY people say hetereosexuality was being forced down our throats.
#39
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:42
BadlyBrowned
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The only romance that felt forced to me was Liara.
#40
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:43
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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ScooterPie88 wrote...
I thought Cortez felt rather forced though I'm a straight male so that might be biased. Traynor I knew she was from the start and Allers was such a pointless addition to the game it defies description. The homosexual romances seemed to be trying to fix a problem I personnally felt wasn't there. Any of those issues seem trivial after the endings destroyed the franchise though.
Agreed about the last part but..
Many, many, manyyyy people were peeved that Liara was the only seemingly same-sex option in both games.
"You are Commander Shepard"
"Cool, ok, so why can I only romance Ashley and Liara? Is there something else for me?"
"No. You're Celebate-Shepard."
Now I'm not wanting every friggin romance character to be bisexual, sheesh, but at least allow options for roleplay. Kaiden already 'seemed' bi (sorry, gaydar tingling), so he seemed fine in ME3. Cortez and Traynor are largely definted, in game, as having other roles first (shuttle pilot etc).
Cortez may seem a little close with you, but its only because he absolutely hates the idea of ANYONE dying under his watch. Traynor may seem a little too flirtatious and 'I'm a happy lesbian', but its only because she is an informal person who is barely miltary at all. Basically imagine a well adjusted young academic that had the miltary pay her way through. The Normandy also allows for close interactions with others, so we can assume that off-screen, most of the characters get to know each other.
#41
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:43
Valraine
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To anyone saying that sexual relationships shouldn't be in the game:
I disagree!
I disagree!
#42
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:48
Zoedoll
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No. Cortez was awesome and Traynor was a sweetheart, and the fact they were open about their sexuality rather than being ~mysterious~ and full of unresolved subtext was great. Rarely get to see that, as you pointed out with some of your less-than-good examples of what you consider the right way to present LGBT people.
#43
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:50
FanHarel
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I didn't feel like it was forced too much. I actually think they did a much more believable job of including homosexual romances than they did in DAII. In DAII, all four of your romance options were apparently gay or straight based on what gender you are. The two males were homosexual if you were male and straight if you were female and vice versa for the female. And we were basically just supposed to accept that as fact.
In ME3, Samantha and Cortez actually seemed were 100% homosexual and no matter how much you wanted them to be otherwise- I tried really hard to get her with my male Shepard lol- they will remain homosexual.
In ME3, Samantha and Cortez actually seemed were 100% homosexual and no matter how much you wanted them to be otherwise- I tried really hard to get her with my male Shepard lol- they will remain homosexual.
#44
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:53
Arik7
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This thread would not exist if Cortez mentioned his wife. It's a little sickening how gay people are expected to constantly justify their existence and address garbage complains such as the OP.
Cortez's declaration is not something you often see in today's mainstream media, and it is very refreshing. Good job, BioWare.
Cortez's declaration is not something you often see in today's mainstream media, and it is very refreshing. Good job, BioWare.
#45
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:54
MPSai
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I don't get why people think Cortez saying "I had a husband" is forced. I don't think the implication that gay marriage will be legal and normal in roughly 170 years, especially in a galactic community where very few people seem to have a problem with interspecies relationships, is forcing anything.
Cortez had a husband. His husband was killed in the conflict. His dialog and behavior wouldn't be any different if you replace "husband" with "wife" in his dialog.
Cortez had a husband. His husband was killed in the conflict. His dialog and behavior wouldn't be any different if you replace "husband" with "wife" in his dialog.
Modifié par MPSai, 03 avril 2012 - 05:55 .
#46
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:55
Dap Brannigan
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I had no problem with Steve Cortez being gay. However, I thought he was a pretty forgettable character otherwise though, and in my opinion, the scene where he was in tears at his workstation was not tastefully done.
You, the commanding officer, catching your subordinate bawling his eyes out on duty in sight of everyone in the shuttle bay was sort of weird and took me out of the scene. And was a disservice to the character.
You, the commanding officer, catching your subordinate bawling his eyes out on duty in sight of everyone in the shuttle bay was sort of weird and took me out of the scene. And was a disservice to the character.
#47
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:56
MPSai
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Dap Brannigan wrote...
You, the commanding officer, catching your subordinate bawling his eyes out on duty in sight of everyone in the shuttle bay was sort of weird and took me out of the scene. And was a disservice to the character.
That was probably more a symptom of being too lazy to put him in a different area.
#48
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:56
Valraine
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MPSai wrote...
I don't get why people think Cortez saying "I had a husband" is forced. I don't think the implication that gay marriage will be legal and normal in roughly 170 years, especially in a galactic community where very few people seem to have a problem with interspecies relationships, is forcing anything.
Cortez had a husband. His husband was killed in the conflict. His dialog and behavior wouldn't be any different if you replace "husband" with "wife" in his dialog.
It's funny though, the thing that was forced was talking with Jacob in ME 2 as a FemShep: All of the dialogue options you had with him in the 2nd time you could talk to him were all options to flirt. You could not choose an option that wouldn't flirt with him, unless you didn't talk to him at all. Now, if that was with a homosexual character...
#49
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:58
Ashilana
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jlb524 wrote...
I didn't feel as if they were forcing heterosexuality by having Thane speak of his dead wife so...no.
Nicely said. Thank you.
#50
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 05:58
MPSai
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Valraine wrote...
MPSai wrote...
I don't get why people think Cortez saying "I had a husband" is forced. I don't think the implication that gay marriage will be legal and normal in roughly 170 years, especially in a galactic community where very few people seem to have a problem with interspecies relationships, is forcing anything.
Cortez had a husband. His husband was killed in the conflict. His dialog and behavior wouldn't be any different if you replace "husband" with "wife" in his dialog.
It's funny though, the thing that was forced was talking with Jacob in ME 2 as a FemShep: All of the dialogue options you had with him in the 2nd time you could talk to him were all options to flirt. You could not choose an option that wouldn't flirt with him, unless you didn't talk to him at all. Now, if that was with a homosexual character...
Considering I'm a lesbian and my main Shep is also a lesbian (Liara counts!) I was a bit put off that she couldn't even ask Jacob about his day without sounding like a sexual predator. Especially after they took the already recorded same sex romances out of 2 for whatever BS reason they did.
Modifié par MPSai, 03 avril 2012 - 05:58 .
