235 réponses à ce sujet

[Valraine]

MPSai wrote...

Valraine wrote...

MPSai wrote...

I don't get why people think Cortez saying "I had a husband" is forced. I don't think the implication that gay marriage will be legal and normal in roughly 170 years, especially in a galactic community where very few people seem to have a problem with interspecies relationships, is forcing anything.

Cortez had a husband. His husband was killed in the conflict. His dialog and behavior wouldn't be any different if you replace "husband" with "wife" in his dialog.

It's funny though, the thing that was forced was talking with Jacob in ME 2 as a FemShep: All of the dialogue options you had with him in the 2nd time you could talk to him were all options to flirt. You could not choose an option that wouldn't flirt with him, unless you didn't talk to him at all. Now, if that was with a homosexual character...

Considering I'm a lesbian and my main Shep is also a lesbian (Liara counts!) I was a bit put off that she couldn't even ask Jacob about his day without sounding like a sexual predator. Especially after they took the already recorded same sex romances out of 2 for whatever BS reason they did.

Exactly my thoughts, though I didn't feel like coming to the forum to complain about it in a topic that was completely dedicated to that subject. But now that there are topics about homosexuality like this, I couldn't help but to bring it up to make these people see their hypocrisy. 

[Valraine]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I think it's odd that there seem to be more gay couples in the game than straight.

Which would seem to bring our civilization to a screeching halt.

But outside of that, it didn't feel all that forced with respect to people on your ship. Traynor, you couldn't really tell unless you picked up on the EDI comment. Cortez was maybe the barest hint a bit much, but only the barest hint. I think I'm basing that on, every time you go down there it seems he's either listening to the guy or talking about him or something. That was a little much. Other than that, though, not really.

Mind you, most of those were Asari, who can mate with anyone. 

And I'm quite confident there were more heterosexual couples present within the game. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Modifié par Valraine, 03 avril 2012 - 06:05 .

[Total Biscuit]

I was very pleased with the way homosexuality was handled in game; as something completely normal and socially accepted.

As for sexuality and romance in general, for me it's one of mass Effect's strongest selling points, and something alot of games stories completely neglect, that adds a massive amount of realism.

The fact is humans are incredibly driven by passion and lust, it's responsible for probably the majority of all human endeaver throughout history, and acting as if it's something childish and put of place just comes across as a little immature or repressed to me.

Mass Effect gives you the chance to not just experience the tense, visceral combat of a soldier, but the slow paced down time and social interactions of a person, to interact with other people in the same situation and explore the emotions behind both what your doing and for those you're with.

In real life wars people don't suddenly shut down their feeling, become celibate and act like robots. If anything the stress and emotional turmoil tends to make people latch onto one another for comfort, and bring feelings to the surface they might otherwise feel unwilling to express because there's the constant risk of one or both of those involved dying at any time.

Besides which, romance is something we can all relate to, and understand the importance of. It's why it's at the core of most compelling art, primarily music, film and literature, and increasingly gaming, though with a bit more snigger teenage immaturity.

I can only hope more games start to understand and handle romantic storylines with the same maturity and even handedness Mass Effect mostly manages.

Really, if you have trouble with the purely optional choice to give your Shepard the more realistic depth and humanity love always gives and are scared the game will give you the gay then you've got problems.

[VerdantSF]

Ashilana wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I didn't feel as if they were forcing heterosexuality by having Thane speak of his dead wife so...no.

Nicely said.  Thank you.

This.

[Valraine]

Total Biscuit wrote...

I was very pleased with the way homosexuality was handled in game; as something completely normal and socially accepted.

As for sexuality and romance in general, for me it's one of mass Effect's strongest selling points, and something alot of games stories completely neglect, that adds a massive amount of realism.

The fact is humans are incredibly driven by passion and lust, it's responsible for probably the majority of all human endeaver throughout history, and acting as if it's something childish and put of place just comes across as a little immature or repressed to me.

Mass Effect gives you the chance to not just experience the tense, visceral combat of a soldier, but the slow paced down time and social interactions of a person, to interact with other people in the same situation and explore the emotions behind both what your doing and for those you're with.

In real life wars people don't suddenly shut down their feeling, become celibate and act like robots. If anything the stress and emotional turmoil tends to make people latch onto one another for comfort, and bring feelings to the surface they might otherwise feel unwilling to express because there's the constant risk of one or both of those involved dying at any time.

Besides which, romance is something we can all relate to, and understand the importance of. It's why it's at the core of most compelling art, primarily music, film and literature, and increasingly gaming, though with a bit more snigger teenage immaturity.

I can only hope more games start to understand and handle romantic storylines with the same maturity and even handedness Mass Effect mostly manages.

Really, if you have trouble with the purely optional choice to give your Shepard the more realistic depth and humanity love always gives and are scared the game will give you the gay then you've got problems.

Are you the real total biscuit? 

[Valraine]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Valraine wrote...

Exactly my thoughts, though I didn't feel like coming to the forum to complain about it in a topic that was completely dedicated to that subject. But now that there are topics about homosexuality like this, I couldn't help but to bring it up to make these people see their hypocrisy. 

Not to seem rude or elitest or anything, but...

You've only been here a month, judging by your join date. So you don't even know about all of the annoyance of people, and all of the dislike for Jacob, because of that dialog. And there was a lot; that dialog was pretty much universally hated by all.

Actually, I have two accounts. One for my Mass Effect 1 and 2, and this for Mass Effect 3 which I bought on my Origin account. Now, I don't know how to merge the two together, and I can't post without having the ME3 game... So, I was present during the time when ME2 was announced, and I did not personally see anything related to that specific dialogue about the flirting being forced. But then again, there was tons of topics and I must've missed that specific topic at the time.

[VerdantSF]

Total Biscuit wrote...

Really, if you have trouble with the purely optional choice to give your Shepard the more realistic depth and humanity love always gives and are scared the game will give you the gay then you've got problems.

Well said.

[FrozenDreamfall]

Hmm I myself am gay and even I think they pushed it a little.I know it's an all alien and mixing races and gender thing but I did feel like they put a bit too much.Listened to stuff on the Citadel and I noticed a lot of gay couples.Also I am really pissed off about the whole Kaidan thing.Either make a game like DA2 where everyone is bi,or only straight/bi and gay characters without changing them in the series.Hell he didn't even come out bi,he talked only about women,not only that why didn't they make Ash bi too? It's very unbalanced and if you must turn someone bi in a game do it equally or not at all and leave it how it was.To me and my orientation it felt like a bit of an insult,not saying I would've preferred him straight or bi,I don't care but it was unfairly portrayed and inaccurate.Also Ash is a tough,military woman,didn't talk about one guy/relationship in the series,I would've expected her to be bi more.I'm just confused and pissed about the whole thing,inconsistency is something that Bioware really abandoned in the 3rd game.

[Imortalfalcon]

If being grabbed in the crotch and told you're not another man's lover isn't forcing ones sexuality upon you,

then I don't know what is.

[Total Biscuit]

Valraine wrote...

Total Biscuit wrote...

I was very pleased with the way homosexuality was handled in game; as something completely normal and socially accepted.

As for sexuality and romance in general, for me it's one of mass Effect's strongest selling points, and something alot of games stories completely neglect, that adds a massive amount of realism.

The fact is humans are incredibly driven by passion and lust, it's responsible for probably the majority of all human endeaver throughout history, and acting as if it's something childish and put of place just comes across as a little immature or repressed to me.

Mass Effect gives you the chance to not just experience the tense, visceral combat of a soldier, but the slow paced down time and social interactions of a person, to interact with other people in the same situation and explore the emotions behind both what your doing and for those you're with.

In real life wars people don't suddenly shut down their feeling, become celibate and act like robots. If anything the stress and emotional turmoil tends to make people latch onto one another for comfort, and bring feelings to the surface they might otherwise feel unwilling to express because there's the constant risk of one or both of those involved dying at any time.

Besides which, romance is something we can all relate to, and understand the importance of. It's why it's at the core of most compelling art, primarily music, film and literature, and increasingly gaming, though with a bit more snigger teenage immaturity.

I can only hope more games start to understand and handle romantic storylines with the same maturity and even handedness Mass Effect mostly manages.

Really, if you have trouble with the purely optional choice to give your Shepard the more realistic depth and humanity love always gives and are scared the game will give you the gay then you've got problems.

Are you the real total biscuit? 

Oh for f*cks sake...

Yes, I am indeed a real person with the username Total Biscuit, the fact that I'm posting should show you I'm not imaginary after all, and no, I am not the guy on youtube, nor one of the other two people I know of that use Total Biscuit as a username and are into Mass Effect.

Saying 'Real' or 'Genuine' is really annoying frankly, as if making absurd rants on youtube somehow makes one a more defined and valid person, or implies I'm just impersonating some random guy for some bizare reason.

I've been using the name Total Biscuit online for over 12 years, because I like it, full stop, and I'm not going to change it because someone else I only learnt exists less than two months ago happenes to share it.

[Valraine]

Imortalfalcon wrote...

If being grabbed in the crotch and told you're not another man's lover isn't forcing ones sexuality upon you,

then I don't know what is.

...What?

[StrangeSibby]

Imortalfalcon wrote...

If being grabbed in the crotch and told you're not another man's lover isn't forcing ones sexuality upon you,

then I don't know what is.

What are you talking about?

[nhsknudsen]

In 3 words: "Not at all"

Try playing TW and see forced sexuality.

[Imortalfalcon]

Valraine wrote...

Imortalfalcon wrote...

If being grabbed in the crotch and told you're not another man's lover isn't forcing ones sexuality upon you,

then I don't know what is.

...What?

He listed the scene from MGS:SE as one of the fine points in gaming that didn't force a characters sexuality upon you.

I'm inclined to disagree.

Modifié par Imortalfalcon, 03 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[Valraine]

Total Biscuit wrote...

Valraine wrote...

Total Biscuit wrote...

I was very pleased with the way homosexuality was handled in game; as something completely normal and socially accepted.

As for sexuality and romance in general, for me it's one of mass Effect's strongest selling points, and something alot of games stories completely neglect, that adds a massive amount of realism.

The fact is humans are incredibly driven by passion and lust, it's responsible for probably the majority of all human endeaver throughout history, and acting as if it's something childish and put of place just comes across as a little immature or repressed to me.

Mass Effect gives you the chance to not just experience the tense, visceral combat of a soldier, but the slow paced down time and social interactions of a person, to interact with other people in the same situation and explore the emotions behind both what your doing and for those you're with.

In real life wars people don't suddenly shut down their feeling, become celibate and act like robots. If anything the stress and emotional turmoil tends to make people latch onto one another for comfort, and bring feelings to the surface they might otherwise feel unwilling to express because there's the constant risk of one or both of those involved dying at any time.

Besides which, romance is something we can all relate to, and understand the importance of. It's why it's at the core of most compelling art, primarily music, film and literature, and increasingly gaming, though with a bit more snigger teenage immaturity.

I can only hope more games start to understand and handle romantic storylines with the same maturity and even handedness Mass Effect mostly manages.

Really, if you have trouble with the purely optional choice to give your Shepard the more realistic depth and humanity love always gives and are scared the game will give you the gay then you've got problems.

Are you the real total biscuit? 

Oh for f*cks sake...

Yes, I am indeed a real person with the username Total Biscuit, the fact that I'm posting should show you I'm not imaginary after all, and no, I am not the guy on youtube, nor one of the other two people I know of that use Total Biscuit as a username and are into Mass Effect.

Saying 'Real' or 'Genuine' is really annoying frankly, as if making absurd rants on youtube somehow makes one a more defined and valid person, or implies I'm just impersonating some random guy for some bizare reason.

I've been using the name Total Biscuit online for over 12 years, because I like it, full stop, and I'm not going to change it because someone else I only learnt exists less than two months ago happenes to share it.

Hahaha, I'm amused how defensive you got when I actually said nothing that should've provoked such reactions.

I was just curious if you were the same person, but apparently you are not. 

[Rane7685]

Ok wow so a few things.

1) Joker and EDI - I dont actually recall them once going cant wait to get some action in fact the one time its even mentioned is reluctant apprehension. Joker loves her but is completely unsure of how it would work physically. EDI is surprised when Jeff is even attracted to her and is frustrated by her ability to understand. It reminded me of teenage love, so very naive and frankly PG rated.

2) Jack and Liara/ - Liara looked visibly hurt when you say there is nothing between us and she didnt offer me 'private time' after. she took it well but she was clearly hurt by my decision but understood.

3) The asari mistress - what kind off message is this setting? How about a realistic depiction of relationships that do occur. The relationships in fairytale novels are not the reality, people cheat. The tone of this relationship was not to condone/endorse this behaviour but rather to add some realism into the world. And if it helps that relationship does not end well so there is your message for you if you really want it. If you want to take something from it she cheats hoping to settle down with mistress and give up he spouse benefits but gets rejected and screwed so there you go

4) Ok homosexuality - Let me ask you this if Steve had said just buried my wife would you say omg they are trying to emphasise his heterosexuality. The answer is no you wouldnt. That is what Bioware is trying to articulate. This is a world where that is considered normal and acceptable behaviour. The attitude is indifference which is the important thing. If a guy has a wife no one cares so why care if he has a husband. You seem to be ok with lesbians showing minor but nevertheless present public displays of affection until they talk about things you dont approve of but Steve mentions in passing the word husband and you feel like its being forced. It appears at least on the surface that you have a double standard

[Valraine]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

FrozenDreamfall wrote...

Hmm I myself am gay and even I think they pushed it a little.I know it's an all alien and mixing races and gender thing but I did feel like they put a bit too much.Listened to stuff on the Citadel and I noticed a lot of gay couples.Also I am really pissed off about the whole Kaidan thing.Either make a game like DA2 where everyone is bi,or only straight/bi and gay characters without changing them in the series.Hell he didn't even come out bi,he talked only about women,not only that why didn't they make Ash bi too? It's very unbalanced and if you must turn someone bi in a game do it equally or not at all and leave it how it was.To me and my orientation it felt like a bit of an insult,not saying I would've preferred him straight or bi,I don't care but it was unfairly portrayed and inaccurate.Also Ash is a tough,military woman,didn't talk about one guy/relationship in the series,I would've expected her to be bi more.I'm just confused and pissed about the whole thing,inconsistency is something that Bioware really abandoned in the 3rd game.

I'm always heartened when I see a post like this, because it blows the whole "If you disagree with any of the gay stuff they did you're a hate-crimer and despicable human being" thing out the window.

Note, not seeing that here, but I've seen it a LOT in the past.

Yes, because we always make such arguments.

[Clayless]

You clearly didn't notice all the forced heterosexuality throughout the series.

[StrangeSibby]

FrozenDreamfall wrote...

Hmm I myself am gay and even I think they pushed it a little.I know it's an all alien and mixing races and gender thing but I did feel like they put a bit too much.Listened to stuff on the Citadel and I noticed a lot of gay couples.Also I am really pissed off about the whole Kaidan thing.Either make a game like DA2 where everyone is bi,or only straight/bi and gay characters without changing them in the series.Hell he didn't even come out bi,he talked only about women,not only that why didn't they make Ash bi too? It's very unbalanced and if you must turn someone bi in a game do it equally or not at all and leave it how it was.To me and my orientation it felt like a bit of an insult,not saying I would've preferred him straight or bi,I don't care but it was unfairly portrayed and inaccurate.Also Ash is a tough,military woman,didn't talk about one guy/relationship in the series,I would've expected her to be bi more.I'm just confused and pissed about the whole thing,inconsistency is something that Bioware really abandoned in the 3rd game.

Both Kaidan and Ashley were both originally bisexual. I posted a thread on just this very topic recently.

For whatever reason their same-sex romance subplots were cut, but Kaidan's was brought back into ME3. For whatever reason, they decided to keep Ashley heterosexual.

It's odd that you feel Kaidan was more straight and Ashley was more gay...as that's the polar opposite opinion of most anyone else I've talked to. Everyone keeps saying "Oh, I knew Kaidan was probably bi...he just gives off that vibe..." 

[VerdantSF]

FrozenDreamfall wrote...

Hmm I myself am gay and even I think they pushed it a little.I know it's an all alien and mixing races and gender thing but I did feel like they put a bit too much...

Unless you got Ashley as an LI, then it would've been all okay...

[Nykara]

Well I only Romanced Kaidan and I thought it was very very well done! The perfect continuation of their relationship - only really one thing missing was Shepard being able to get at least a little bit annoyed with him for not visiting on earth but that was it.