Aller au contenu

Photo

Does anyone else feel the homosexuality (and the sexuality in general) is a little forced?


235 réponses à ce sujet

#126
FreshRevenge

FreshRevenge
  • Members
  • 958 messages

BDelacroix wrote...

I got to a point in ME3 where I stopped wanting to talk to anyone. It seemed that every conversation started turning toward a sexual option. This didn't happen in 1 or 2. Maybe in my play through they all came about at the same time through whatever order of events I did but it got creepy.

The sex stuff is still optional, but there is a lot more of it in the game now than there was. It was never a selling point for me but they wanted to make it into a bigger part. It was almost like those cliche porn plots. Order pizza and .... no. I have a galaxy to save people, stop all this.


I think you overly exaggerating? Not every conversation turns into a sex converstation? You just want to turn every single conversation into that?

SEX is part of LIFE get over it! God forbid it should be in a MATURE GAME? Is it just Americans that look at sex as something that shouldn't be talked about?

You can spend hours on end watching heads get blown off and blood splatter but once they introduce sex into the game whether it from a heteorosexual or Homosexual point of view you say it too much?

Grow the Hell UP!

#127
Ashilana

Ashilana
  • Members
  • 973 messages

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Yeah, i had to tip-toe around the dialogue options for Cortez. I didnt want my Shepard accidentally becoming gay even after romancing Ashley and Miranda...


because you so need to tip toe around him when theres only one converstation in the game where you can get in a relationship with him and only if you pick the clearly labled I LIKE MEN options


I wonder if people feel this way in real life... worried that they might blurt out "I like men" while walking down the street.

#128
Tehzim

Tehzim
  • Members
  • 219 messages
I actually thought the sexual options were rather tastefully done. And as to rejecting people being renegade, it's always sort of been that way. That's the problem that games like this run into. How do you make a yes/no check and leave room for "well, I do like you, but." It's one of the grey areas that are tough to manage. Just like clunky love scenes. Most game engines aren't designed for that kind of contact.

But I liked especially Cortez because he just off handedly mentions that he lost his husband. No one in the game goes "Oh A HUSBAND!" Shepard just takes it at face value, this guy lost his love. And Cortez isn't a flaming, screaming queen with a prancing walk and annoying vocal mannerisms. He's just another person.

#129
LiquidGrape

LiquidGrape
  • Members
  • 2 942 messages
This just in! Some people on the BSN think gay subject matter is overexposed in a series which has publicly enforced a heteronormative romantic arc as of the very first game!

In other news, Luxembourg is a smallish duchy in Western Europe bordered by Germany, France and Belgium; most mammals give birth to live young and one Martin Luther has instigated the Reformation by nailing ninety-five theses to a church door in Wittenberg.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 03 avril 2012 - 05:30 .


#130
BatmanPWNS

BatmanPWNS
  • Members
  • 6 392 messages
I have another problem, why does paragon choice mean I want my Shep to bang someone in bed? With my FemShep, I let Vega call her "Lola" and for some reason she adds that she finds him cute. Ok, where did that come out off.....

#131
KainrycKarr

KainrycKarr
  • Members
  • 4 819 messages
 Not even remotely.

#132
FreshRevenge

FreshRevenge
  • Members
  • 958 messages
 If you are Homophobic and reject him. He ends up dying at the end. You can be frends with him regardless of your view points and save him. When someone are  depress, they lose the hope to live for themselves. We need each other to live! My Shepard allowed that Hope in Cortez to still live on and become strong again! You can't think you can do it alone! This generation has become so individualistic and selffish in those regards!

#133
Saberchic

Saberchic
  • Members
  • 3 006 messages
Feel forced? No way. The options are very clear. You can paragon Steve or Kaidan as a dude all you like; YOU have to clearly pick the "I like dudes option" to get into a relationship with them.

Heck, my straight manShep picked the "I'm eye candy too" option because he knows he looks good and was also kidding around with Steve (reminiscent of the banter Vega and Cortez had in the beginning). Then, being straight, he picked the "Waiting for the right woman" response (though Aedan's heart will always belong to Samara).

As for Kaidan, my manShep told him he's like a brother. There was no awkwardness there.

So feeling forced? No.

#134
Ziggeh

Ziggeh
  • Members
  • 4 360 messages

Templar_Blademaster wrote...

However, the way the line was delivered highlights the husband part, as if BioWare wanted to say, "He is gay, see, he has a husband, he is gay. Accept him for being gay, he is your shuttle pilot and he gets you things from the market. Did we mention he is gay?" I know I may overexaggerate that a bit, but it just feels too forced about his homosexuality.

A bit?

I don't rembeber much of his dialogue because it kept annoying me there was no "mourn after we save all sentient life, you ass" dialogue option, but I was very impressed with that line. It's a blink and you'll miss it. It's delivered as if the gender of his spouse isn't in any way an issue, because it's not. If you got blinking pink neon "gay" lights from that, I suspect you were bringing something to it.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 03 avril 2012 - 05:28 .


#135
Guest_SwobyJ_*

Guest_SwobyJ_*
  • Guests

FreshRevenge wrote...

 If you are Homophobic and reject him. He ends up dying at the end. You can be frends with him regardless of your view points and save him. When someone are  depress, they lose the hope to live for themselves. We need each other to live! My Shepard allowed that Hope in Cortez to still live on and become strong again! You can't think you can do it alone! This generation has become so individualistic and selffish in those regards!



Agreed. :(

#136
locsphere

locsphere
  • Members
  • 422 messages
NO, seriously these threads are completely off base. You can choose between a hetrosexual, or homosexual relationship. This is one thing the game gets right. People from all walks of life have inclusion. Its like arguing the female Shepard is forced on you even though you have a choice in the matter.

#137
Tleining

Tleining
  • Members
  • 1 394 messages

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I have another problem, why does paragon choice mean I want my Shep to bang someone in bed? With my FemShep, I let Vega call her "Lola" and for some reason she adds that she finds him cute. Ok, where did that come out off.....


because you want to make him blush??? ("you have to try harder if you want to make me blush") I love that dialogue, just two Soldiers having a bit of fun.

#138
TODD9999

TODD9999
  • Members
  • 455 messages
I felt like sexuality could have been handled better, but probably for different reasons than you.

I thought Joker/EDI and possibly Tali/Garrus were nice changes from the "everything revolves around Shepard" approach. I could even see there possibly being a hint of Vega/Ashley.

Joker/EDI isn't about all relationships with robots being accepted - since AI's are illegal (or at least very, very tightly controlled) and VI's seem to be little better than a holographic GUI for a regular computer. As others have said, it was a play on Joker being in love with his ship, only in this case the "ship" is, through the actions of himself and others, able to love him back, as well as a vehicle for EDI to learn about humanity in general.

The lack of reaction from ME1 love interests to finding a new one in ME2 bothered me quite a bit, but I don't think it has anything to do with the character doing something they find sensible - I think it was just not allocated enough resources during game development. Similarly, if you stayed faithful, I think it should have changed things up dramatically. For example, I romanced Ashley but stayed faithful in ME2 - I expected that when she came on the Normandy after healing up, she would come to the Captains' quarters. Okay, failing that (2 years isn't a short amount of time, after all, and then Cerberus) they should have had some meaningful conversations. The thing with Ashley's sister was nice, but once she was on the ship, it felt like there had never been anything between them right up until she came up to spend the night. From what I hear, the other romances were handled reasonably similarly. That's very disappointing to me.

Cortez's being outed was, I thought, handled with perfect clarity and simplicity. As others have said, Cortez is a good guy and good pilot who has issues with letting go of his past love. You gradually help him over it. That love happens to be male, so he's gay. His initial statement about having lost his husband was very straightforward and also made his orientation perfectly known. Now, I find it a bit icky that if you play a gay Shepard, you can help him out and then immediately start up your own thing, but that has nothing to do with being homosexual - that's just possibly being predatory.

I notice you don't mention Traynor (or at least I didn't see it, if you did, then I apologize). I thought Traynor was handled with a much defter touch. From her brief mentions of liking EDI's voice and . . . uh . . . some overheard conversation she had with Allers over the intercom (I don't remember exactly what was said, although I do remember that I got the distinct impression she may be into girls), you get an impression, but she doesn't clearly state it until she's in your cabin. I thought it was much more fun that way, although it does make me wonder. Were Cortez and Traynor just different people, with different issues, or were they intentionally written differently because being gay is perceived as less acceptable than being a lesbian? If Cortez had played things much more subtly, how many angry people would be complaining about being "tricked" into being gay? If Traynor had been more forthright, how many people would complain about her being "butch" and "in your face"? It's unfortunate. But I liked Traynor's character, and I liked her more subtle reveal - which was not a case of her necessarily hiding it (although it could be perceived as such). I just thought she was naturally a bit more reserved and less inclined to talk about such things.

Although underwear in the shower scene? Really? Lame. I don't demand full frontal or anything, but come on, now. Use some tasteful arms or hugging or turning or something to conceal what you feel must be concealed, don't just leave them in underwear. This applies generally to all the sex scenes (except Liara's, I guess).

The woman cheating with the asari didn't seem to be written any differently than if the asari was a human male, or male of any other species (or female of any species). It was a little story about a married spouse who decides to leave their partner for their piece on the side, and about said piece on the side being okay with the leaving if it's due to longstanding issues, but not wanting to be the cause of it. I didn't get any sense that it was acceptable - the cheating was reprehensible and the leaving possibly so.

So, to summarize, although I wasn't happy with how being faithful was not really treated any different from cheating as far as the relationship progression was concerned (save one or two different dialogues), on the whole I thought the relationships and characters presented in the game were reasonably solid. They were about people and relations between them, not about their orientations. Would I have liked to see, say, Liara coming up to Shepard's cabin to sleep, rather than staying in her Shadow Broker Information Center, at least once in a while? Would I have preferred to see some sort of "date" between Ashley and Shepard, eating military rations in his cabin, trying to reconnect after two years? Absolutely yes. But, that's not where BioWare chose to put its emphasis, so whatever. Which I find interesting, in comparison with your view that you were playing a love story. When facing total war and the annihilation of everything and everyone we care about, I think relationships between people can be a very interesting story to tell - that doesn't make it a dating sim, it makes it a case of science fiction examining the human condition under fantastic circumstances, which I feel is a great thing.

#139
spacehamsterZH

spacehamsterZH
  • Members
  • 1 863 messages
Actually I thought ME3 did a better job than the previous games at letting you be friendly with your crew without instantly triggering some "now remove thy pantaloons" line.

So yeah. No. Not really.

#140
Cheep Cheep Cheep

Cheep Cheep Cheep
  • Members
  • 49 messages
I disagree with the OP, and like others said, if Cortez was grieving over his wife, we wouldn't even be bringing him up.

I felt that the Traynor romance was very underwhelming. It didn't feel like a sincere relationship, just a fling/friends with benefits situation. I quickly reloaded and stayed loyal to Garrus. :P Hell, even messing around with Kelly Chambers in ME2 felt more sincere.

#141
Cheep Cheep Cheep

Cheep Cheep Cheep
  • Members
  • 49 messages

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Actually I thought ME3 did a better job than the previous games at letting you be friendly with your crew without instantly triggering some "now remove thy pantaloons" line.

So yeah. No. Not really.


I agree. It really annoyed me of how difficult it was to NOT flirt with Jacob as a FemShep, and even avoiding it, the way those conversations are voice acted give off a really flirtatious vibe. It's pretty annoying when I'm envisioning one of my FemSheps as a lesbian or have one that is only interested in Garrus.

#142
Wulfram

Wulfram
  • Members
  • 18 948 messages

Tehzim wrote...

I actually thought the sexual options were rather tastefully done. And as to rejecting people being renegade, it's always sort of been that way. That's the problem that games like this run into. How do you make a yes/no check and leave room for "well, I do like you, but." It's one of the grey areas that are tough to manage. Just like clunky love scenes. Most game engines aren't designed for that kind of contact.


Have three options.  I'm attracted to you, I want to be friends, go away.  Simple.

#143
VoodooDrackus

VoodooDrackus
  • Members
  • 228 messages

Templar_Blademaster wrote...


Ok, rant time. First off, the sexuality in ME3 in general seems a bit more forced than it was previous. Whereas Joker and EDI in Mass Effect 2 was implied that there was some chemistry going on, here it is pretty much obvious that they want to go at it, not a simple romance or even an intimate relationship, but actual bang buddies. Like they skipped a whole step and now want at it like rabbits.

Did you miss the part where Joker and EDI stayed together the whole time that Shepard was in custody? Did you miss the part where Joker released EDI from her shackles. They have always been moving towards their romance. You even see them hanging out on the Citadel together. That part was definately not forced. You even help bring them together.

Templar_Blademaster wrote...
(even if I didn't ask for Jack, she basically forced herself on me, which kind of ticked me off, but that is for another time).

Odd, Jack never forced herself on me. She is aggressive, I will give her that. But she never forced a relationship with me. Not sure why you felt that she did to you.

Templar_Blademaster wrote...
Instead, she was very accepting of me and Jack, and after I told her that the romance there was over, all Liara basically said was, "oh, ok, wanna have some private time later?" That is it? Like we skipped the acceptance or the building of trust and are ok with it? I'm sure there is more to the story than this that I am missing, but it just feels like it is forced here.

She didn't exactly say that. She did want to talk later so that she could get her mind off of other things. The way she said it did not imply actual "private" intimate time. Just time to talk about things. And she felt cold the entire time. Like you were having to really work at getting her to trust you. It isn't until later that she seems to warm to you.

Templar_Blademaster wrote...

Ok, now for the main meat of the article, the homosexuality. I won't even touch on Shepard same sex option where saying no is the renegade, but rather the other things I have noticed. The shuttle pilot was handled well, at least from what I have seen where he says that he lost his loved ones, including his husband. However, the way the line was delivered highlights the husband part, as if BioWare wanted to say, "He is gay, see, he has a husband, he is gay. Accept him for being gay, he is your shuttle pilot and he gets you things from the market. Did we mention he is gay?" I know I may overexaggerate that a bit, but it just feels too forced about his homosexuality.

Um yeah, the whole interaction with Cortez did not feel like it was being forced on you at all. They were never trying to hammer home that he was gay. He's a man dealing with his grief. You can be supportive of him or not. You don't really have to interact with him at all if you don't want to. I feel you are definately overexaggerating.

#144
Guest_liesandpropaganda_*

Guest_liesandpropaganda_*
  • Guests
roses are red, violets are blue, gay agenda - this hurts you

#145
Ashilana

Ashilana
  • Members
  • 973 messages

Cheep Cheep Cheep wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Actually I thought ME3 did a better job than the previous games at letting you be friendly with your crew without instantly triggering some "now remove thy pantaloons" line.

So yeah. No. Not really.


I agree. It really annoyed me of how difficult it was to NOT flirt with Jacob as a FemShep, and even avoiding it, the way those conversations are voice acted give off a really flirtatious vibe. It's pretty annoying when I'm envisioning one of my FemSheps as a lesbian or have one that is only interested in Garrus.


Definitely.  I avoided talkng to Jacob altogether when I played through ME2 a second time.  I did eventually risk talking to him so I could get his upgrade option.   If any character had intereaction like Jacob did in ME2 I think the op could be justified...but since they did it so much better, I think he is just freaking out a bit.

#146
-Sxx-

-Sxx-
  • Members
  • 1 271 messages
It did feel forced. Felt that way early on in the game. Homosexuality seemed to stand out a lot more than in the previous games. Gay that, gay this. Maybe war made people come out more but seriously... It was more blatant in ME3.

#147
tiduspr

tiduspr
  • Members
  • 35 messages
I was actually surprised at how well Bioware pulled of romances and sexuality in general, including homosexuality.

Cortez was an interesting character, and the only thing I'd say is that I would've liked seeing more of him, perhaps more dialogue options. It feels like he could have played a bigger role as far as character development goes. But his sexuality was handled really well.

The Kaidan romance. Well. No complains here. The conversations were interesting and even the "sex" scene was handled tastefully, sexy but still very loving.

I always thought Kaidan could go either way, so I did not find his bisexuality, or homosexuality, strange.

It didn't feel forced either, as you could always opt to engage something other than friendship if you wanted to. 

It's also funny how some people have noticed, that even though you can have cross-species sex, some just keep focusing on same-sex relationships.

No one batting an eyelash over it.  That's what the future sounds like, for sure.

Modifié par tiduspr, 03 avril 2012 - 06:35 .


#148
Kawamura

Kawamura
  • Members
  • 1 960 messages

Dest1ny wrote...

It did feel forced. Felt that way early on in the game. Homosexuality seemed to stand out a lot more than in the previous games. Gay that, gay this. Maybe war made people come out more but seriously... It was more blatant in ME3.


My Shep wasn't allowed to acknowledge his sexual orientation at any time in the previous games (outside of a removed dialogue with Liara).

So. Yeah, I guess it did stand out more. 

#149
Russalka

Russalka
  • Members
  • 3 867 messages

Dest1ny wrote...

It did feel forced. Felt that way early on in the game. Homosexuality seemed to stand out a lot more than in the previous games. Gay that, gay this. Maybe war made people come out more but seriously... It was more blatant in ME3.


And people rarely complain about "straight this, straight that".

#150
shepskisaac

shepskisaac
  • Members
  • 16 374 messages

darthclide wrote...

I am a guy who thinks that being gay is immoral

And that's all we needed to hear