55 réponses à ce sujet

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

DarkOne- in this thread about the new Neverwinter Nights Nexus asked for a community census on the tags used to organize modules, so I thought it'd be a good idea to start a new thread here for folks to post their ideas.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Here are some ideas from the parent thread:

Shaughn78 wrote...
HAKS.............................. Prefab Areas................................ Modules (probably expand these choices beyond just SP/MP)
-Armor............................ -Interior...........................................-No Story: Leveler
-classes .........................-Exterior..........................................-Linear Story
-Races ...........................-Day/Night Cycles..........................-Hack & Slash
-Monsters ......................-by environment..............................-Role Playing
-Feats ............................-........................................................-Sandbox, openplay
-Weapons

M. Rieder wrote...

Module Length:
0-5 hours
5-10 hours
10-15 hours
15-20 hours
20+ hours

Starting Character level:
1-30

Finishing Character Level:
1-30

Part of a Series
class-Specific Module - for modules focused on one class... like wizards
Dungeon Adventure
Overland Map
Forest Adventure
Undersea Adventure
Jungle Adventure
Winter Adventure

Tchos wrote...

I think the Vault categories work well, and
would make a good base. Is there anything in here that people in
general would like to see changed?

For NWN2:
Characters
Hakpaks : Original
Hakpaks : Combined
Hakpaks : For Modules
Models
Modules : English
Modules : International
Movies
Other
Plug-ins
Portraits
Prefabs : Areas
Prefabs : Blueprints
PWC Files
Scripts
Visual Effects
All Sounds
Textures
Tools
UI

Is the PWC category still used after the autodownloader was added?

For NWN1:
Characters
Creatures
Hakpaks
Models
Modules
Movies
Other
Prefabs
Portraits
Scripts
Sounds
Textures
User Screenshots

There
are also a few links under the "categories" section that go to articles
to give overview descriptions of certain categories, such as D20
Modern, and provide links to mods that add to that setting which aren't
otherwise distinguishable under the broad categories. I recall seeing a
system for the TES Nexus where people could contribute articles that
could be linked on the main page. Is that function still available?

[painofdungeoneternal]

I would like to include a tag for "ADL compatible" - which means it's a hak ready for shared PW use by the autodownloader, which does not include any 2da files inside the hak, and does not have any conflicts. ( should be usable with kanyben's placeables.2da and my monster pack. ) Generally these haks are used by many PW's, and if a user or PW admin were to download it they can be confident that the exact same hak is being used by most PW's thus reducing redundant downloading.

I would like to use the nexus for staging these for the PW admins, and then they can host them via drop box.

Also we need to specify if modules are DMFI compatible. ( that is an old project, but it's already well established, probably need to have another term when i get my DMFI remake released )

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 08 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I personally would like to see a more thoughtful discussion about what kind of different module genres we really have, and how organizing modules according to different tags could help players find the modules they really want to play.

For example, I find the 'role-play' tag to be too ambiguous. For some, it just means lots of conversation options that allow them to role-play a wide variety of character types. For others, it means more emphasis on story and characterization, with major plot elements that revolve around characters and conversations, rather than straightforward combat.

Likewise, 'hack-n-slash' can either be construed as a Diablo-style romp, or a combat-heavy mod that requires serious tactical thought.

Then there are all the various tics and preferences. Some like low-gold worlds, were you have to think carefully about supplies, others want to be able to buy and craft enough items to max out their builds. There's high fantasy and low fantasy, modules that adhere rigidly to a particular setting, and modules that connect more to historical realities than a purely fantasy setting.

I haven't played enough modules to really lay out a system myself, but I challenge the players to look at the list of modules they've played, and to sort them out into a set of meaningful categories.

[Tchos]

Also, take a look at the categories as they currently exist on the Nexus.
http://neverwinter.n...s.com/index.php

And I agree with Casadechrisso that "armour" and "clothing" would be good tags (not categories, since there can't be subcategories on that system).

Lugaid, you're absolutely right.  I don't think the Nexus has had a section so heavy in modules that create different worlds with different kinds of gameplay and settings.  Low-magic and high-magic would go well alongside low-gold or high-gold.  There could be tags for Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, or other popular module settings, as well as one for original settings.

Modifié par Tchos, 08 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Arkalezth]

In haks (I think those are haks, correct me if I'm wrong), maybe a tag for "appearance" or similar. I'm thinking about things like new heads and hairstyles, United Colors, etc.

Tchos wrote "Hakpaks : For Modules". What do you mean by that? I mean, can't all haks be used in modules? I'm not too knowledgeable about this so sorry if I'm asking something stupid.

I think we shouldn't go over the top with tags and mostly limit them to generic things. Take as a example the ones Matt suggested for modules: "class-specific", "sand-box", or "story-driven" are ok, but "undersea adventure"? I don't remember ever playing a module that I'd tag with that, and I've played a bunch of them. In the best of cases, we'd have one or two with that tag.

Not sure about things like "forest adventure" either, that's of course much more common, but maybe those specific details should be left for the description, or else, some mods could end with 50 tags, making harder to navigate through them.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 08 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[Tchos]

Arkalezth wrote...
Tchos wrote "Hakpaks : For Modules". What do you mean by that? I mean, can't all haks be used in modules? I'm not too knowledgeable about this so sorry if I'm asking something stupid.

I don't know what it means.  I took it directly from the Vault.  Look there and see what files were put under that category.

Arkalezth wrote...
I think we shouldn't go over the top with tags and mostly limit
them to generic things. Take as a example the ones Matt suggested for
modules: "class-specific", "sand-box", or "story-driven" are ok, but
"undersea adventure"? I don't remember ever playing a module that I'd
tag with that, and I've played a bunch of them. In the best of cases,
we'd have one or two with that tag.

Not sure about things like
"forest adventure" either, that's of course much more common, but maybe
those specific details should be left for the description, or else, some
mods could end with 50 tags, making harder to navigate through
them.

I completely disagree.  Tags are not categories.  They're a separate, alternate searching tool to make navigation easier and more specific.  You can find things or filter out things based on what tags they have.  A file should have as many tags available as possible, and as many applied as are appropriate for the file.  You will have Categories for the broader browsing that I think you're looking for.

Modifié par Tchos, 08 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[painofdungeoneternal]

Quite a few things on the vault just don't make sense or are not used. Even the PW categories in gamespy seem like they were developed by someone who has no knowledge of the game at all.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

'Hakpaks: For Modules' refers to haks that were put together for specific modules. Nowadays, these files usually just get placed on the module page, so there's less reason for them to have their own specific category, or even vault pages for that matter. Hopefully, the ADL will make that kind of stuff obsolete soon anyway.

Also, I was a bit sloppy in using 'tags' and 'categories' interchangeably. I like to think of tags as overlapping categories, where a single file could belong to several different categories at the same time. For example, using the SoZ party chat and Overland map should be tags, but it wouldn't make sense to categorize modules solely based upon whether or not they had an overland map.

[Arkalezth]

I personally find those types in the Vault confusing, or simply badly used. For example, there's a lot of modules defined as "epic". Unless you're talking about epic levels (which could involve, like, 1% of the modules, ad that's being generous), it's greatly subjective and can create confusion. Just an example I remember.

Still not sure about the "area-type" adventure tags I mentioned in my other post. I guess they wouldn't be so bad if the number of tags wasn't so big, but I'd make a decission about the mechanical tags first, and then think about the rest.

Tsongo suggested some good ones. We could have a single tag for "class/alignment specific", or split it in two. Definitely level range (start and finish), romance works too. Now, the others...

- Setting: There are at least two types of settings here: in one hand, the general area, i.e. forest, desert. On the other hand, the "world". Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, custom setting...

- Content (adult, etc): Not sure if this is necessary. Besides, what defines a module as adult? Nudes? Blood? Most modules are arguably adult in some way, you'll end fighting and killing people in 99% of them. If there's some important detail specific to a module, it can be mentioned in the description.

- Gameplay style: Do you mean RP, story, hack n' slash, sand box, etc? Well, some modules clearly belong to a category, but as Lugaid said, the lines between those are often blurried. I mean, almost every module out there could be tagged as RP. But, well, I guess style is an important way to classify a module. I just wonder if there's a more objective way to do so. For the record, those, with a couple more (like "replayable"), are the categories we use in the AME.

Other tags about mechanics could be party creation, and party conversation (SoZ-style, where not only the PC can talk).

Modifié par Arkalezth, 08 mars 2012 - 09:16 .

[Tchos]

Right...the category list and the tag list should not be identical. The category list should be small and general, and the tags should be large and specific. And if the category "Haks: For modules" is unnecessary, it should be excised from the list.

I agree that "epic" would be a poor tag choice, because it has that double-meaning. The earlier suggestion of level ranges would be unambiguous.  Also, M. Rieder's suggestion of estimated playing time.

Modifié par Tchos, 08 mars 2012 - 09:14 .

[Arkalezth]

I had never noticed the "Hakpaks : For Modules" category at the Vault, hence my question. Thanks for the explanation.

I don't know why Tchos said that tags being not categories. That's fair enough, but that's not what I'm discussing. The category will be simply "modules", DarkOne has said that already. No sub-categories in those. So, if we want more specific things, it seems that tags will have to do the work.

Tchos has a point about tags as a filter when searching, I was in part thinking about it the other way around too, i.e. you're in a module page and want to check the level range, but that's buried beneath a pile of tags. Module descriptions should note those things, but many times they don't. It's not good, but it happens. And, as mentioned, there's the risk of filtering by tags like "RP" and find 99% of the modules on the site. So, I'm fine with more tags, but let's not go crazy with them and try to stay away from subjective and/or unnecesary ones.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 08 mars 2012 - 09:19 .

[Tchos]

Well, you won't get any argument from me that all relevant info should be in the file description.  Tags are for searching, and that's all.  I think you just need to see how they're used in a search, and you'll understand why more is better, and how to structure your search so that you don't get 99% of the modules in your results.

Also, the Nexus site does currently contain the three different categories for hakpaks.  Look at the category list.  What he was saying was that the categories can't be nested.
http://neverwinter.n....com/downloads/

As an example of the sort of things you'll find in tags, here's what one of the other Nexus sites has available for tags:
http://dragonage.nex...s/tagsearch.php

Modifié par Tchos, 08 mars 2012 - 09:44 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Arkalezth wrote...
- Gameplay style: Do you mean RP, story, hack n' slash, sand box, etc? Well, some modules clearly belong to a category, but as Lugaid said, the lines between those are often blurried. I mean, almost every module out there could be tagged as RP. But, well, I guess style is an important way to classify a module. I just wonder if there's a more objective way to do so. For the record, those, with a couple more (like "replayable"), are the categories we use in the AME.

For reference, the Academy for Modding Excellence uses the following categories:

Role-Playing
Storytelling
Multiplayer
Action
PnP Conversion
Replayable

They've put a lot of thought into these categories, and revised them over the years, but they're necessarily limited by the number of modules they can review and awards they can reasonably give out.  I'd be interested to hear from the AME cognitati about other categories they considered using, but had to leave out for practical reasons.

Modifié par Lugaid of the Red Stripes, 08 mars 2012 - 09:55 .

[Arkalezth]

Tchos: I know, but modules aren't so easy to divide in categories, except for language. But if we're going to have them (not that I'm suggesting so), maybe we should decide about that before the tags.

Lugaid: "Dramatic" is now "storyline", and "PnP conversion" is "conversion/remake", but yes, those are the categories at the AME. I've only been in the AME since last year, and there was talk at some point about adding some extra categories or special recognitions, but those were pretty specific for the most part: short modules, module series, etc. One of the reasons was lack of participation, we still need more people to advance the awards, so again, if anyone's interested, let us know.

There are some guidelines about how to define those categories, though. Here: http://www.ame-gda.n...ome/?page_id=10

Another tag could be gameplay hours, but that also depends since some people play faster than others. Still could work as a tag, even if not completely objective.

What about Hall of Fame? That could work as a tag, or if we want several categories, it could be one. So we'd have a "Modules: Hall of Fame" category, and another for the rest. Just an idea if we wanted more than one category. In any case, as someone said on the other thread, HoF stuff should be handled by a moderator.

[Shaun the Crazy One]

For reference I suggest looking at the DA Tags.  I should also point out that multiple tags can be applied to a module, so were not dividing into sub-categories here, just listing attributes.

Noticed quite a few good tags posted.  this is a listing based off the tags mentioned in this thread, the categories from the vault, and tags on other Nexus sites:
Atributes:
Adult-only content
Neverwinter Nights 1
Shadows of Undrentide required
Hoards of the Underdark required
Neverwinter Nights 2
Mask of the Betrayer required
Storm of Zehir required
Overland Map
Romances

Modules:
Past Level 20
No Story: Leveler
Part of a Series
Multiplayer
Non-linear
Sandbox, openplay
Hack & Slash
Comedy
Mystery
Horror
PnP Conversion
Kaedrin Compatible

Theme:
Jungle Setting
Winter Setting
Dungeon Setting
City Setting
Sea-fairing Setting
class-Specific
Forgotten Realms setting
Greyhawk setting
Ravenloft setting
Dragonlance setting
Lord of the Rings setting

Language
English
Spanish
Italian
French
German
Japanese
Russian

Resources
Prefab - interior
Prefab - exterior
Day/Night Cycles
Armor and Clothing
classes
Races
Creatures
Feats
Weapons
Custom Models
Music
Sounds
User interface


edit: updated to include suggestions below

I omitted the hours of game play and level tags (except for the "Epic Level" one).  These could be added, but since they only apply to mods, and typically aren't the things people search for I'm not sure their necessary.

So What do you think?

Modifié par Shaun the Crazy One, 10 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[Tchos]

I would still suggest not using the phrase "epic level" just so there's no possibility of confusion. Rather, something more like "Above level 20".

[Arkalezth]

Well, I always look at the gameplay hours and levels before playing a module, I consider both things important.

Undersea... really, has anyone played an undersea module? I'd add alignment-specific, and maybe gender-specific? If MotB and SoZ tags are added, maybe also a "no expansions needed" one? Remake?

[Tchos]

I haven't personally played an undersea module, but I know at least one exists for NWN1.

[The Fred]

I quite like the style/content categories, like "hack 'n' slash", "story", "mystery", "avoid your homework" and "epic samurai battle adventure campaign, with ninjas".

[Dark0ne-]

I actually was actually informed that "epic samurai battle adventure campaign, with ninjas" was what every module contained....if that's not the case then I might as well just pack my bags...

[M. Rieder]

Arkalezth wrote...



Undersea... really, has anyone played an undersea module?

I hold my breath and set the screen tint to blue.  Maybe spill some water on my shirt.  Makes it feel under-watery for me. 

[Shaughn78]

Another good tag for modules would be Kaedrin compatible