55 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaun the Crazy One]

Arkalezth wrote...

Well, I always look at the gameplay hours and levels before playing a module, I consider both things important.

Undersea... really, has anyone played an undersea module? I'd add alignment-specific, and maybe gender-specific? If MotB and SoZ tags are added, maybe also a "no expansions needed" one? Remake?

Ok so I removed the Undersea theme cause... yeah.  I did not add "no expansions needed" because Dark0ne mentioned that they where alreay working on a way to exclude tags, so you could just exclude expansions required.  I don't know about alignment-specific or gender-specific, I can think of only 2 mods that fall into those catagoies and in those case it's explained in the title.

The Fred wrote...

I quite like the style/content categories, like "hack 'n' slash", "story", "mystery", "avoid your homework" and "epic samurai battle adventure campaign, with ninjas".

Well I already had hack 'n' slash, story is basicly just the opposite of hack 'n' slash, mystery I added, and "epic samurai battle adventure campaign, with ninjas"... well maybe I should add asian setting to themes, what do you think?

Modifié par Shaun the Crazy One, 09 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[Arkalezth]

Well, gender specific is rare (right now I only remember A Dance with Rogues for NWN1, and A Hunt Through the Dark series), but alignment specific isn't really. Path of Evil would be the most obvious example, but many modules are only suited for good, or at least non-evil aligned characters. I don't know if it's worth a tag or if it'd be used, thoughts?

There's also the option that add a general restriction tag, that could be referred to any aspect of the main character.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 09 mars 2012 - 09:47 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Here's a list of tags cribbed from Netflix:
Campy
Cerebral
Dark
Emotional
Goofy
Gritty
Heartfelt
Mind-bending
Quirky
Raunchy
Romantic
Scary
Sentimental
Violent
Witty

Do any of these seem like useful tags for marking up modules? I'm hoping to get at the personality of different modules, the overall sense of things that can either turn off a player or really hook them.

[The Fred]

I know one or two mods feature undersea/underwater locations. I also know it would be possible to make a decent undersea mod (especially with RWS Swimming). However, it's hardly common, so it's probably not worth having a tag for. Perhaps "seafaring" or just something else sea-based?

[Shaughn78]

Sea-Based how about "Scurvy-Dog, Swashbuckling Pirate Adventure". The only problem we'll have is when some one adds in a ninja or two, then we'll need the tag "epic samurai battle adventure, with deadly ninjas and scurvy-dog, swashbuckling pirates"

[Shaun the Crazy One]

Updated the list

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

Here's a list of tags cribbed from Netflix:
Campy
Cerebral
Dark
Emotional
Goofy
Gritty
Heartfelt
Mind-bending
Quirky
Raunchy
Romantic
Scary
Sentimental
Violent
Witty

Do any of these seem like useful tags for marking up modules? I'm hoping to get at the personality of different modules, the overall sense of things that can either turn off a player or really hook them.

Trying to apply movie tags to games is not a good way to go about doing things (I mean honestly name me a game that's campy).  I did add a horror tag though as that what seemed fitting, the others I'm not so sure about.

I replace under sea setting with sea-fairing setting as suggested.  The alignment specific I'm still not so sure about, any other opinions on the matter?

edit: also got rid of forest setting and added Lord of the Rings setting.  I don't think it makes scene to include things like forest, mountain, plains, since these are areas any module might have and not a defining trait of the module.  Jungle, sea-fairing, and winter setting you could make an argument for, for example I would say SoZ had a jungle theme, Dark waters defiantly had a sea-fairing theme, and White plume mountain a defiant winter theme.

Modifié par Shaun the Crazy One, 09 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Though the forest/jungle/undersea setting didn't seem that useful to me, I did like the wilderness/city/dungeon adventure tags from the vault, since those tags have a lot to do with how the module is structured and how it plays, and not just the terrain-as-backdrop, which in many cases is basically interchangeable.

As for the movie tags, I think some of the awesome-pirate-ninja stuff deserves a playful-campy-justplainfun tag, as does something like Sex and the Single Adventuress, while the gritty tag goes towards capturing some of the essence of "low" fantasy.

I remember that Tsongo's Serene was ill-received by some that took it too seriously, and my own mods get criticized by players who just want to play, and don't take it seriously enough.

My own short list for these tags would be:

campy
dark
gritty
cerebral
romantic
playful
horror

And then some proper genres, based more on how the game is put together:

hack-n-slash
storytelling
role play
adventure
trading
tactical
high fantasy

And then the various settings, file compatibilities, levels, character/alignment restrictions, and features (overland map, etc).

How can we rephrase these things to be more relevant?

[Arkalezth]

Just a quick comment because I have to go:

I like the wilderness/city tags. The movie ones... not so much. I think those may make searchs complicated in practice. For example, a module can have a "dark" story in a colourful setting. Is that dark? And cerebral? If it has puzzles, just create a puzzle tags. If there's something else, how do we define a cerebral module?

I support Kaedrin's compatible tag.

[MasterChanger]

Shaun the Crazy One wrote...
Trying to apply movie tags to games is not a good way to go about doing things (I mean honestly name me a game that's campy).

The Wizard's Apprentice I!

I think LotRS's terms are good descriptions, but probably overly subjective to be useful as tags. I would certainly like to be able to quickly distinguish between light-hearted adventures (which would probably be the better description for Wiz Appr.) and modules with more difficult themes. For example, adventures that contain choices between options that all lead to bad outcomes would fall under some more serious category.

These kinds of adventures are very different to play and it's worth being able to distinguish them easily on the Nexus.

[Shaun the Crazy One]

Coming up with a tag list that satisfies everyone is turning out to be awfuly tricky, and the list is getting pretty long.  I'm trying to incorperate everyones ideas while avoiding redundantcy.

While I stick to my earlier statement that using movie tags is not the best way to catogies games some of the ones Lugaid mentioned are fitting.  For exmple while there are no romance modules, at least not in the way there are romance movies, there are modules that feature romances, or add-on that add romances to the origenal campains, thus Romances does make a good 'atributes' tag.  At the same time, it whould be redundant to have a Dark tag and a Horror.  The Sandbox, Hack & Slash, Comedy, Mystery, and Horror tags may be broad, but thats ussaualy the best way to do tags.  After all there's no point having tags if each tag just applies to one or two modules.

General speaking Lugaid most of the tags you suggest were already there in one form or another.

Wondering if there should be a tag for SoZ style party adventure mod, and hopefuly a better word for it than that.  I'm also noticing alot mention of alignment based tags.  I wondering if adding a 'Moral Choice System' tag under Modules whould be a good way to cover that.  Thoughts?

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

To do this right, one would have to go through all the modules on the vault and mark down what tags would apply to them, and then check what tags weren't used and what extra tags were needed. We might have to go through the NWN titles too, because I suspect they have a lot more of the story-centric modules (e.g. Dances with Rogues) that really need genre-based tags.

To cut down on numbers, can we agree to think of some good names for the following?

Dark/Horror - I think of dark as Gothic, with deep moral undertones, while Horror is more like absurd numbers of undead everywhere.
Storytelling/Story-based/Dramatic/Linear - I guess the AME folks already hashed this out, but basically to me it means modules where experiencing the plot is more important than game-play or role-play choices.
Campy/Fun/Playful/Lighthearted/Procrastinating-on-homework/SuperAwesomeFunTimeNinjaPirate - yeah, you know what I mean.

SoZ-style player-generated party should also be a tag, along with the party chat and overland map. Or should we combine all this into a SoZ/Goldbox-style tag?

'Moral Choice System' is a good idea, too, but needs to be cleaned up. Some modules are really alignment-specific, meaning that they offer an evil path rather than the default good. Some others actually do a decent job presenting moral choices and alternate endings. Would 'multi-linear' cover this, or is the moral aspect more important than the choice aspect?

Also, I mentioned 'trading' or economic systems above, but I don't know if enough modules do this well enough to include it, or if people really care. Crafting might be a similar issue.

I also put forward 'tactical' to cover things like Good vs. Evil, Reversal of Fortune, and my own mods, things that offer larger, more complicated battles. I image it could also apply to modules with carefully thought-out party-sized battles, rather than grinding hack&slash.

In all, there's good reasons to keep things simple, but I think a good tag system can encourage a more diverse group of modules to grow. With the old top-10/HOF system, small and off-beat mods tended to get lost, but good tags can keep those mods relevant, and accessible.

[MasterChanger]

Isn't "moral choice system" something that is a subset of role-playing? To me, role-playing in single-player RPGs really boils down to allowing the character room to show who they are and have that affect the course of the adventure.

If it's really important to let potential players know that the module has multiple directions it can go in, I would encourage something like "multi-linear", as LotRS suggested. Multi-linear is a description of how the module plays, while "moral choice system" tells you about how the story is put together.

[Clyordes]

Any advantage to including 'classic P&P conversion' or similar? :-)

Although I admit a bias here myself, maybe other people still look for them?

Cly.

[Arkalezth]

Clyordes: Don't worry, PnP conversion was mentioned somewhere.

Alignment: we can just have a tag for restricted alignment, and other for availability of all of them. Not sure how I'd call it, if moral choice or something else, as moral choice doesn't necessarily mean alignment choice, but I guess one can be included in the other.

SoZ-style is kinda vague, we should be more specific: Overland Map, SoZ party creation, SoZ party conversation. And maybe party banter too, to avoid a possible confusion with SoZ party conversation.

Edit: Also, tag for crafting. Either a single tag, or several for OC/MotB/SoZ style.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 10 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Here's the current state of the discussion, as best I can figure it. (mostly from Shaun's earlier list)

Attributes:
Adult-only content
Overland Map
SoZ Party chat
Player-created Party

Low Level (1-7)
Mid level (8-13)
High level (14-19)
Epic Level (20+)

class/Alignment-Specific
Romance
Comedy
Mystery
Horror
Light-hearted/Fun/Playful *(I want a better word to describe this)
Tactical
Crafting
Moral Choice

Module Form:
No Story: Leveler
Part of a Series
Multiplayer
Linear
Multi-linear
Storytelling
Sandbox
Hack & Slash
Role-play
classic Conversion *(Tsongo's idea, includes PnP and older cRPG conversions, like ZORK)
Bugfixes

Setting:
Wilderness Setting
Dungeon Setting
City Setting
Seafaring Setting

Forgotten Realms setting
Greyhawk setting
Ravenloft setting
Dragonlance setting
Lord of the Rings setting
Custom setting

Low Magic World
High Magic World

Compatibilities:
Shadows of Undrentide required *(NWN/2 have separate categories, so no need to have separate NWN/2 tags)
Hordes of the Underdark required
Mask of the Betrayer required
Storm of Zehir required
Kaedrins class Pack Compatible
CEP compatible
ADL compatible
DMFI compatible

Language:
English
Spanish
Italian
French
German
Japanese
Russian

Resources:
Prefab - interior
Prefab - exterior
Day/Night Cycles
classes, Feats and Spells
Races
Heads and Hair
Creatures
Armor and Clothing
Weapons and Items
Placeables
Textures
Music
Sounds
User interface

What should we add or take away?  What tags require further explanation?  I think we should also put together a document describing each tag in detail, maybe using the Nexus wiki.

*Edit - 'party chat' to 'SoZ party chat', 'Sea-faring' to 'Seafaring', added 'Heads and Hair' and 'Placeables' resource, changed 'Weapons' to 'Weapons and Items'.  'Custom Models' changed to textures. 'DWMI' corrected to 'DMFI'. 'Bugfixes' added. 'classes' changed to 'classes, Feats and Spells'. 'Low Magic World' and 'High Magic World' added.

Modifié par Lugaid of the Red Stripes, 11 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[Arkalezth]

Looks ok overall.

The level tag should make clear if it means starting and/or end level. Or the one that you are for most of the module.

I've already mentioned the SoZ party chat one being probably confused with banter between NPC companions. So we should specify it's about SoZ style.

Custom models, is that what I said about heads, hairstyles, etc? Models can technically be anything, like weapons, no? Also, where would things like United Colors fall?

[Tchos]

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...
Light-hearted/Fun/Playful *(I want a better word to describe this)
Sea-faring Setting

As for a possible better word, how about "whimsical"?
The second term should be spelt "seafaring".

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I don't mess with the 3D modeling, but I assume 'Custom models' refers to raw 3D constructions that have yet to be packaged as particular resource types. I.E., a sword model could be packaged as a weapon, placeable, or even a creature. The vault, though, only has 2 texture re-maps in this category. Should we junk it?

Looking at the resource category, and what's on the vault, I wonder if we really need the 'feats' tag, or if we should just have a combined class/Race/Feat tag, since all of those are mostly 2DA edits, and tend to be done together as a package.

I've made some edits to the resources section, to be a bit more inclusive. I noticed that the DA nexus calls it 'Components', should we change to that?

'Whimsical' sounds a bit strong to me. where you go past not taking yourself too seriously and start showing real contempt for the bounds of reality. Alice in Wonderland is whimsical, but Super Mario is at least vaguely realistic.

[Tchos]

I'd be fine to junk that one, based on its current use.  Feats too.

I think "resources" is the better choice of name, and the components and resources sections should be merged into one.  The Nexus uses the broad term "modders' resources" for uploads intended for use by other builders.

I don't have any other suggestions for alternate words for Light-hearted/Fun/Playful...I've always referred to them as "mods that don't take themselves too seriously", and don't know of a shorter way of expressing that thought.

Lugaid, you should also post this list here, where further discussion has taken place:
http://forums.nexusm...erwinter-vault/

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

@Tchos: thanks for the head's up, I've cross posted our list-in-progress.

"mods that don't that themselves too seriously" is exactly the right notion, just wish I knew how to put that into a word or two.

Also, I'm not too familiar with the Nexus tag voting system, but I get the impression that players get to vote on the tags, so these things are as much a way for players to communicate with each other about how they perceive the mod than it is a way for builders to say how they intend their work to be perceived.

[Tchos]

Not exactly. Anyone can vote on a tag, but the mod author's vote (or a moderator's vote) equals 99 votes of normal users, so they can deny tags if they don't think they're relevant, or automatically add ones that are. I believe the ability of other people to vote on a tag is to add tags to files that the author just never bothered to tag.

[Arkalezth]

Being a non-English native speaker I'm not the one to ask about the most fitting word, but isn't light-hearted fine? Or, just for the sake of saying something, I don't know... casual?

I had forgotten about the races/classes/feats/spells/x. I think those should be grouped in one tag, as there are like Kaedrin's that add a bit of everything. Maybe also a tag for bug fixes?

DWFI compatible

Unless you mean something else, it's DMFI.

What about the suggestion about specifying if the level range is the starting one, or end, or the one you play on most of the time?

Edit: I'd suggest tags for low/mid/high magic. This usually refers to the equipment power, but maybe it could bring confusion and we should specify. Thoughts?

Modifié par Arkalezth, 11 mars 2012 - 02:40 .