182 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

GlassElephant wrote...

General User wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

This is such a weird/creepy delusion people have. Liara did not rape you.

Jesus.

Exacatly, you don't have sex with her.
Remeber, rape is force sexually intercores. Notforced breeding. It only a crime if one is forcedto have the child.

I don't think the English language has a word for this sort of thing.  If Liara did this, it would be a gross violation at the very least.

It's like if a woman "forgets" to take her birth control, except usually in those cases the two people are already in some kind of a relationship...

I think that that's about as close as just humans can get.  But I say even that falls well short of describing this situation since all human males know that getting a girl pregnant is a possible consequence of having sex with her.  Can't really say the same about Shepard in the "accepting a gift" scene.

I mean, asari put the Greeks to shame!

Modifié par General User, 15 avril 2012 - 08:22 .

[kalasaurus]

General User wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

General User wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

This is such a weird/creepy delusion people have. Liara did not rape you.

Jesus.

Exacatly, you don't have sex with her.
Remeber, rape is force sexually intercores. Notforced breeding. It only a crime if one is forcedto have the child.

I don't think the English language has a word for this sort of thing.  If Liara did this, it would be a gross violation at the very least.

It's like if a woman "forgets" to take her birth control, except usually in those cases the two people are already in some kind of a relationship...

I think that that's about as close as just humans can get.  But I say even that falls well short of describing this situation since all human males know that getting a girl pregnant is a possible consequence of having sex with her.  Can't really say the same about Shepard in the "accepting a gift" scene.

I mean, asari put the Greeks to shame!

Yeah, there's no way to really describe what this would be in human terms.  It still feels like a violation from a purely human perspective (which is all we can really go by).  Like you said "rape" may not be the right word for this, but I know my Shepard and most Shepards in a relationship with someone else wouldn't like that without some kind of consent being given.

[General User]

GlassElephant wrote...

General User wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

General User wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

This is such a weird/creepy delusion people have. Liara did not rape you.

Jesus.

Exacatly, you don't have sex with her.
Remeber, rape is force sexually intercores. Notforced breeding. It only a crime if one is forcedto have the child.

I don't think the English language has a word for this sort of thing.  If Liara did this, it would be a gross violation at the very least.

It's like if a woman "forgets" to take her birth control, except usually in those cases the two people are already in some kind of a relationship...

I think that that's about as close as just humans can get.  But I say even that falls well short of describing this situation since all human males know that getting a girl pregnant is a possible consequence of having sex with her.  Can't really say the same about Shepard in the "accepting a gift" scene.

I mean, asari put the Greeks to shame!

Yeah, there's no way to really describe what this would be in human terms.  It still feels like a violation from a purely human perspective (which is all we can really go by).  Like you said "rape" may not be the right word for this, but I know my Shepard and most Shepards in a relationship with someone else wouldn't like that without some kind of consent being given.

Anyone in a relationship with Liara should be rather upset too!  Does the dialogue in that scene change if you're romancing Liara? 

Because, even if Liara and Shep. and together, and even if they want to have kids together, for Liara to just go ahead make decision like this w/o Shep's knowledge or consent says any number of things about Liara, none of them particularly good.

[Akrim_Drak]

If Liara raped me Bioware will have more crap on their hands than just a dumb ending and a buttload of lies. I don't think the media will take kindly to "Videogame has main character raped by alien."

I would be freaking PISSED.

[Chaoswind]

People are being too extreme, all Liara did was use Shepard to random her DNA sequence, remember she can do this with anyone(even space cows), is just that she's been enamoured since ME1, is her way of showing how important you are for her.

Fact: Liara risked everything to get Shepard body back, when EVERYONE else had given up, Liara loves you, regardless of your own feelings, and using you as the base factor for her own child is the best she can do.

She wants everyone to know about this awesome person called "fulano" Shepard, how this person saved her, how this person taught her new things, and how this person was all around awesome, She refuses the idea of Shepard having no legacy in the universe, so first she gives Shepard's body to TIM, She writes a personal entry of a single person to a capsule that contains important information about this cycle, its it that hard to see her loving Shepard so much that she is willing to have a baby girl with him?

I think that is beautiful and I romanced Tali... Or would you prefer she had a melding with Javik instead? Yeah I thought so.

Liara character has always been nerdy and creepy, she doesn't know what to do socially and remember asari have no problem raising baby girls on their own, I guess when they find the person they want to meld with, they do it, even if that means raising the girl alone.

[kalasaurus]

General User wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

General User wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

General User wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

This is such a weird/creepy delusion people have. Liara did not rape you.

Jesus.

Exacatly, you don't have sex with her.
Remeber, rape is force sexually intercores. Notforced breeding. It only a crime if one is forcedto have the child.

I don't think the English language has a word for this sort of thing.  If Liara did this, it would be a gross violation at the very least.

It's like if a woman "forgets" to take her birth control, except usually in those cases the two people are already in some kind of a relationship...

I think that that's about as close as just humans can get.  But I say even that falls well short of describing this situation since all human males know that getting a girl pregnant is a possible consequence of having sex with her.  Can't really say the same about Shepard in the "accepting a gift" scene.

I mean, asari put the Greeks to shame!

Yeah, there's no way to really describe what this would be in human terms.  It still feels like a violation from a purely human perspective (which is all we can really go by).  Like you said "rape" may not be the right word for this, but I know my Shepard and most Shepards in a relationship with someone else wouldn't like that without some kind of consent being given.

Anyone in a relationship with Liara should be rather upset too!  Does the dialogue in that scene change if you're romancing Liara? 

Because, even if Liara and Shep. and together, and even if they want to have kids together, for Liara to just go ahead make decision like this w/o Shep's knowledge or consent says any number of things about Liara, none of them particularly good.

Agreed!  I know Shepard and Liara talk about maybe making "little blue babies" someday, but one would presume they'd plan when they start a family together.  Not Liara's little "surprise" oopsie baby present.  I haven't seen the dialogue myself, but I don't think they actually mention making a baby right then and there.

If Shepard dies or Liara thinks Shepard's dead while on Gilligan's planet, I guess I can understand her maybe saving Shepard's genetic code from their mind melding and having a baby that way.  If they actually were in a relationship together.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Liara isn't old enough to get pregnant she's only about a 100 they don't hit the mating stage til about midway through their life.

I don't know if that means she CAN'T get pregnant or not. But I've never heard of an Asari having a kid before the maiden stage around 300 years old. Liara is like 150 or something around there she's still in the find passion in everything and look for knowledge. Stage.

But then again i'm not exactly an Asari expect I liked the Krogan more much more interesting of a race. Same with Salarian and Turian for some reason the Asari kinda remind me of these arrogant space hippies. But hey that's me.

[General User]

Chaoswind wrote...
People are being too extreme, all Liara did was use Shepard to random her DNA sequence, remember she can do this with anyone(even space cows), is just that she's been enamoured since ME1, is her way of showing how important you are for her.

That's the problem.  What may be a sentimental and even well-intentioned act for an asari is, for humans, a gross violation of our most basic rights.  At the very least, Liara should know and respect that.

Chaoswind wrote...
Fact: Liara risked everything to get Shepard body back, when EVERYONE else had given up, Liara loves you, regardless of your own feelings, and using you as the base factor for her own child is the best she can do.

Fact: loving someone does not make it "ok" to trick them into getting you pregnant.

Chaoswind wrote...
She wants everyone to know about this awesome person called "fulano" Shepard, how this person saved her, how this person taught her new things, and how this person was all around awesome, She refuses the idea of Shepard having no legacy in the universe, so first she gives Shepard's body to TIM, She writes a personal entry of a single person to a capsule that contains important information about this cycle, its it that hard to see her loving Shepard so much that she is willing to have a baby girl with him?

What I have trouble with is the idea that Liara would have such utter disregard for Shepard's own thoughts, feelings, and wishes.

Chaoswind wrote...
I think that is beautiful and I romanced Tali... Or would you prefer she had a melding with Javik instead? Yeah I thought so.

I would prefer that Liara meld with persons who give their informed consent.

Chaoswind wrote...
Liara character has always been nerdy and creepy, she doesn't know what to do socially and remember asari have no problem raising baby girls on their own, I guess when they find the person they want to meld with, they do it, even if that means raising the girl alone.

Humans don't.  Liara should respect humans, or at least respect Shepard, that much.

Modifié par General User, 15 avril 2012 - 09:00 .

[Pathero]

I hope to God not.

It's like the Asari version of a turkey baster and.... suddenly this analogy has gone somewhere horrible.

[Chaoswind]

"Girls in love would do the most idiotic things for love"

Honestly that makes her character pretty human, and I like it.

You people being upset are immature, ask any girl (that has been deeply in love) if they had a chance to have a baby with the person they loved if they would do it and you will see that more than a few would.

She was selfishly in love, that's all.

[Pathero]

Chaoswind wrote...

"Girls in love would do the most idiotic things for love"

Honestly that makes her character pretty human, and I like it.

You people being upset are immature, ask any girl (that has been deeply in love) if they had a chance to have a baby with the person they loved if they would do it and you will see that more than a few would.

She was selfishly in love, that's all.

Can't tell if trolling or not...

[Chaoswind]

Anyways this is nothing more than speculation!!!! Even if there is a chance that Liara got pregnant on purpose, it only happens if we headcannon the missing pieces ourselves.

[General User]

GlassElephant wrote...
Agreed!  I know Shepard and Liara talk about maybe making "little blue babies" someday, but one would presume they'd plan when they start a family together.  Not Liara's little "surprise" oopsie baby present.  I haven't seen the dialogue myself, but I don't think they actually mention making a baby right then and there.

If Shepard dies or Liara thinks Shepard's dead while on Gilligan's planet, I guess I can understand her maybe saving Shepard's genetic code from their mind melding and having a baby that way.  If they actually were in a relationship together.

Aye.  Given the vagaries of how asari reproduction works, it might even be possible for Liara to have "Shepard's" baby using nothing more than a blood sample Dr. Chakwas kept in a cabinet in Normandy's sick-bay!

Modifié par General User, 15 avril 2012 - 09:06 .

[kalasaurus]

Chaoswind wrote...

"Girls in love would do the most idiotic things for love"

Honestly that makes her character pretty human, and I like it.

You people being upset are immature, ask any girl (that has been deeply in love) if they had a chance to have a baby with the person they loved if they would do it and you will see that more than a few would.

She was selfishly in love, that's all.

I'm a girl and I would never get pregnant by my boyfriend on purpose without his consent.  Some girls may trick their boyfriends, but most wouldn't if they actually RESPECT them.

If Liara wanted a baby with Shepard, she should have asked first (romance or not).  And this is all speculation, anyway...

(edited for formatting)

Modifié par GlassElephant, 15 avril 2012 - 09:07 .

[Chaoswind]

Lol is her Body and she does whatever she wants with it.

Analogy time: If one of those rabid Justin B fans had a chance to get his sperm they would do it evenwithout his consent.

Is not like we have real life examples... Oh yes we do, they where called groupies.

[kalasaurus]

Chaoswind wrote...

Lol is her Body and she does whatever she wants with it.

Analogy time: If one of those rabid Justin B fans had a chance to get his sperm they would do it evenwithout his consent.

Is not like we have real life examples... Oh yes we do, they where called groupies.

Liara's a Shepard groupie?  I guess that would make sense.  It's still messed up.

[General User]

Chaoswind wrote...
"Girls in love would do the most idiotic things for love"

Which is another problem I have with this scenario.  Liara is one of the most intelligent young women in the galaxy.  She is neither a girl nor an idiot. 

Chaoswind wrote...
You people being upset are immature, ask any girl (that has been deeply in love) if they had a chance to have a baby with the person they loved if they would do it and you will see that more than a few would.

The kind of girls that would trick a man they claim to love into getting them pregnant are the kind of girls I would want nothing to do with.

Chaoswind wrote...
She was selfishly in love, that's all.

Crimes committed "for love" are still crimes

[General User]

Chaoswind wrote...

Lol is her Body and she does whatever she wants with it.

It's not Liara's body and rights at issue here, but Shepard's.

[frylock23]

dreman9999 wrote...

evisneffo wrote...

Why do people keep thinking this? I was under the impression that asari can choose whether melding results in reproduction. Unless you don't like Liara, that gift scene is a pretty touching one which kind of gets marred when you start hearing "Liara raped me!"

I mean, unless you're in a romance and were hoping she'd get pregnant. That's another story.

I suspected as much as soon as the melding began.... Being that she was my ex, how dedicated and in love I know she is to Shepard, and the fact that she had to sit back and watch another woman take her place, I felt it wasthe lease I could do...Let have something out of all of this if she can't have my Shepard.
Also, nothing sexual happen, Asari breeding and sex are too different thing. Saying it's rape is like say someone took your dna and clone you is rape.

As soon as I saw the "gift" and it ha dnothing to do with anything I recognized as memories, this is something I've been afraid of, too. I sure hope BioWare didn't pull a stunt like this because it isn't "touching" or "cute" or anyhting like that. Not everyone liked Liara. In fact, some of us, like myself, never really liked her all that much and would have sacrificed her way back on Virmire if we had been given the chance because we found her devotion creepy rather than attractive.

Then she digs up your dead body and gives you to a terrorist organization.
Then she spends the last game being a bit too friendly.
And, lastly, she shows you something that looks nothing like memories and is clearly confusing to Shepard.

Sorry, but give me steady, reliable Kaidan any day. I'll have his babies or no one's. 

[Chaoswind]

Let's give this context:

Your best friend is going to war, the chances of him coming back are slim at best and non existant at worse, the problem is that you have been in love with him since the moment you meet him, he is in a relationship with another girl, but is impossible for them to have children (again only Ash and Liara are in the grey zone) and you know it (liara is the SB), what would you do? Would you let the only person you have loved to die in the battlefield, to be a person with no legacy other than tales or a name in a stone?

I can't blame her, my Shepard's are that awesome, then again as a person, I am different, monogamy is a choice for both parties not a social stigma forced by religious groups that would throw stones at anyone that thinks in a different way.

[General User]

Chaoswind wrote...

Let's give this context:

Your best friend is going to war, the chances of him coming back are slim at best and non existant at worse, the problem is that you have been in love with him since the moment you meet him, he is in a relationship with another girl, but is impossible for them to have children (again only Ash and Liara are in the grey zone) and you know it (liara is the SB), what would you do? Would you let the only person you have loved to die in the battlefield, to be a person with no legacy other than tales or a name in a stone?

If you really cared about your friend who was going to war, you would respect them and their choices.  Including the choices not to be romantically involved with you or to have children with you.

I can't blame her,

I can.

my Shepard's are that awesome,

Yours and everyone else's.

then again as a person, I am different, monogamy is a choice for both parties not a social stigma forced by religious groups that would throw stones at anyone that thinks in a different way.

Funny you should mention choice.  What was Shepard's again?

Modifié par General User, 15 avril 2012 - 09:35 .

[nomoredruggs]

Chaoswind wrote...

Lol is her Body and she does whatever she wants with it.

Analogy time: If one of those rabid Justin B fans had a chance to get his sperm they would do it evenwithout his consent.

Is not like we have real life examples... Oh yes we do, they where called groupies.

ο.Ο 

The fact that something can happen in real life doesn't make it the right thing to do...

The fact that it's Liara's body is besides the point completely. The point being made by people here is that Shepard did not consent.

Anyway, I don't think she really got herself pregnant , I think she just wanted to share a special moment.

Modifié par nomoredruggs, 15 avril 2012 - 09:36 .

[doagrl]

Why are people freaking out & being so anthropocentric about all of this? In order for Liara to give you the gift you have to agree; if you're worried about her being in your head then just say no but once you accept it is certainly not rape in any form. She is not taking anything from Shepard and she is not hurting Shepard or his/her LI (if you didn't romance Liara) in any way. We've known since ME1 how asari reproduce and if you meld with her then all bets are off. And if you did romance Liara then you've presumably also done the LOTSB dlc where you talk about getting married and having children with her when the Reaper War is all over so again there is no problem here.

Also from a logical standpoint looking at it from her cultural perspective it was a decision that she made on her own and will be responsible for the result of her action. We've been told before that many/most asari raise their children on their own. Liara is very clever and mature in addition to being a rich girl turned even richer when she became the Shadow Broker so there is certainly no need for Shep to emotionally or financially support her or her daughter. If she did choose to become pregnant with my Shepard's child I would be flattered because it would mean that she obviously saw something extraordinary in her character that she wanted to pass on to her future offspring.

[Chaoswind]

Liara was my ex and she was crushed when I told her I wanted to be friends (made me feel bad), so that scene was a slap in my face, but I didn't blame her.

You have the choice of taking the gift or not

Anyways this is still headcannon, and honestly in my personal opinion she didn't do anything wrong, She won't sue you for paternity(she can't), and she didn't even take your DNA, your nervous system helped her randomice hers, as a matter of fact this is nothing more than a Gift for her, and all her time being your cheerleader and Shep groupie, in the is all about choosing to give her that gift or not.

And hell, after taking her through this messed up game trilogy and forcing her watch how her mommy dies, she deserves much more than a thank you, and if letting her borrow my shep for 5 minutes helps her achieved peace, then so be it.

[General User]

doagrl wrote...
Why are people freaking out & being so anthropocentric about all of this?

Because we're "anthro"-s.  Because respecting and/or tolerating asari culture does NOT extend to letting asari violate our most basic human rights.

In order for Liara to give you the gift you have to agree; if you're worried about her being in your head then just say no but once you accept it is certainly not rape in any form.

True enough.  It's a form of violation we simply have no word for.

She is not taking anything from Shepard and she is not hurting Shepard or his/her LI (if you didn't romance Liara) in any way.

That maybe how you see it.  But can you tell me that Jack, or Ash, or Miranda, or any or all of the other LI's would see things that way?  I certainly don't.

We've known since ME1 how asari reproduce and if you meld with her then all bets are off.

Liara presented her offer as "a sharing of memories", not as a reproductive meld.  If she did infact reproductively meld with Shepard, it's a decepetion.

And if you did romance Liara then you've presumably also done the LOTSB dlc where you talk about getting married and having children with her when the Reaper War is all over so again there is no problem here.

Even if you were in a relationship with her, and wanted to have kids, Liara still should have told you her intentions.

Also from a logical standpoint looking at it from her cultural perspective it was a decision that she made on her own and will be responsible for the result of her action.

Liara's culture is only one side of this coin.  Again, respecting asari culture does NOT extend to allowing them to fail to respect ours.

We've been told before that many/most asari raise their children on their own. Liara is very clever and mature in addition to being a rich girl turned even richer when she became the Shadow Broker so there is certainly no need for Shep to emotionally or financially support her or her daughter.

True, there's no need.  But is there a "want"?  Would Shepard want to have a daughter?  Would Shepard want to be part of any daughter's life?  Liara should respect Shepard enough to ask and then abide by Shepard's decision.

If she did choose to become pregnant with my Shepard's child I would be flattered because it would mean that she obviously saw something extraordinary in her character that she wanted to pass on to her future offspring.

Good for you.

Modifié par General User, 15 avril 2012 - 09:51 .