25 réponses à ce sujet

[HaiknEdge]

Thinking about the ending, I'm actually kind of curious as to whether the Catalyst itself was an AI. If so, the logic is becoming even more circular: a synthetic's (AI) solution for preventing organics from being killed by synthetics is to kill the organic with synthetics, which begs the question of what came first, the organics or the synthetics? How does an artificial intelligence come to exist in a vaccuum, and if it's an AI first, then why would it allow organics in the first place?

Now my head hurts.

[Shinannigan]

For me, the kid was Harbinger. Not really. Or maybe yes really. More confused yet?

[Indenter]

Something something plot armor.

[Abirn]

The catalyst is the citadel. So if the citadel was a relay to dark space why didn't the catalyst (whatever it is) just simply open the relay, which would completely negated the need for any of the Mass effect games.

And what about the keepers weren't we supposed to find out more about them this game.

[shnellegaming]

I think hes an AI based on some long lost organic species that set this all up. Like Edi said hes a Sapient Construct.

[IanPolaris]

Shinannigan wrote...

For me, the kid was Harbinger. Not really. Or maybe yes really. More confused yet?

No, the kid was worse than Harbinger.  At least Harbinger was honest about his intentions, but the kid casually commits genocide not once but multiple times over millions and millions of years over a flawed (and provably wrong) misconction of trasnhuman tech-singularity and never even considers that there might be a better way!

I wish I had the option of blasing the kid's blue-box myself because he is irredeemable.

-Polaris

[HaiknEdge]

Abirn wrote...

The catalyst is the citadel. So if the citadel was a relay to dark space why didn't the catalyst (whatever it is) just simply open the relay, which would completely negated the need for any of the Mass effect games.

And what about the keepers weren't we supposed to find out more about them this game.

I thought the Catalyst was housed in the Citadel, rather than being the Citadel?

[IronHam]

The catalyst is the first reaper, most likely. The first civilization to have war with their own synthetics.

[nitefyre410]

We don't know what the Catalyst is but the issue with it being any AI is that some one had to create it. Which means that it would be the last survivor of the first conflict between Organics and Synthetics and that's why it should in the form of a child because it never learned how to resolve its conflicts without violence and Genocide.

I don't know at this point I'm throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sicks.

[Abirn]

HaiknEdge wrote...

Abirn wrote...

The catalyst is the citadel. So if the citadel was a relay to dark space why didn't the catalyst (whatever it is) just simply open the relay, which would completely negated the need for any of the Mass effect games.

And what about the keepers weren't we supposed to find out more about them this game.

I thought the Catalyst was housed in the Citadel, rather than being the Citadel?

Eitherway it makes no sense to require soverign to open the relay when the catalyst could just do it him/her/its self.  That is the part that pisses me off really more than anything.  The lack of explaination and the plot hole that negates the entire series.

[HaiknEdge]

nitefyre410 wrote...

I don't know at this point I'm throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sicks.

In which case, why not just say the Catalyst is just a god figure, and the Reapers are just his version of an interstellar flood?

[IronHam]

nitefyre410 wrote...

We don't know what the Catalyst is but the issue with it being any AI is that some one had to create it. Which means that it would be the last survivor of the first conflict between Organics and Synthetics and that's why it should in the form of a child because it never learned how to resolve its conflicts without violence and Genocide.

I don't know at this point I'm throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sicks.

The reason it's a child, is because it's a form that resonates with Shepard. Don't think it's form is actually a child, just that it took that for for Shepard, somewhat close to the Geth Tron mission.

[Muezick]

The Catalyst is god. Not the Christian god, but god.

My theory is, obviously all races across the galaxy have a tendency to develop religious beliefs...this was kind of seen in our various interactions. That isn't the result of any direct influence, but instead a biological marker that would drive them to that end because this "God" created them. On purpose or not on purpose, there you go...so they'd come up with what ever suited their world's cultural development patterns.

I refuse to believe that the catalyst(the citadel) is some billion year old A.I. because there's no way the protheans original solution to the reapers (Altering the signals within the citadel) would've worked.

It has to be another level...like, the citadel is like a focusing point(similar to how a prism works) for this god's consciousness, or maybe ...

**** I don't know, I'm grasping at straws at this point.


Some guy said something about the last ten minutes of the game not being cannon through massive fan rejection.

I'mokwiththis.jpg

[HaiknEdge]

Yeah, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how absurd this all becoming.

[nitefyre410]

HaiknEdge wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

I don't know at this point I'm throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sicks.

In which case, why not just say the Catalyst is just a god figure, and the Reapers are just his version of an interstellar flood?

 

Throw at a  wall see if it sticks because  that  explination is as good as any that we get in game.

[IronHam]

Abirn wrote...

HaiknEdge wrote...

Abirn wrote...

The catalyst is the citadel. So if the citadel was a relay to dark space why didn't the catalyst (whatever it is) just simply open the relay, which would completely negated the need for any of the Mass effect games.

And what about the keepers weren't we supposed to find out more about them this game.

I thought the Catalyst was housed in the Citadel, rather than being the Citadel?

Eitherway it makes no sense to require soverign to open the relay when the catalyst could just do it him/her/its self.  That is the part that pisses me off really more than anything.  The lack of explaination and the plot hole that negates the entire series.

Actually it makes a bit of sense. The catalyst put down the rules but doesn't act upon them, it was just waiting for an organic like Shepard to make a choice, accumulating the experience of thousands of organic civilizations (the crucible). The catalyst probably doesn't directly interfere, it set down the rules for the galaxy and waited until an organic finally reached it to make a decision.

[nitefyre410]

IronHam wrote...

Abirn wrote...

HaiknEdge wrote...

Abirn wrote...

The catalyst is the citadel. So if the citadel was a relay to dark space why didn't the catalyst (whatever it is) just simply open the relay, which would completely negated the need for any of the Mass effect games.

And what about the keepers weren't we supposed to find out more about them this game.

I thought the Catalyst was housed in the Citadel, rather than being the Citadel?

Eitherway it makes no sense to require soverign to open the relay when the catalyst could just do it him/her/its self.  That is the part that pisses me off really more than anything.  The lack of explaination and the plot hole that negates the entire series.

Actually it makes a bit of sense. The catalyst put down the rules but doesn't act upon them, it was just waiting for an organic like Shepard to make a choice, accumulating the experience of thousands of organic civilizations (the crucible). The catalyst probably doesn't directly interfere, it set down the rules for the galaxy and waited until an organic finally reached it to make a decision.

 


That  makes given the names   "The Crucible" and  "The Catalyst"  

[Shinannigan]

Abirn wrote...

HaiknEdge wrote...

Abirn wrote...

The catalyst is the citadel. So if the citadel was a relay to dark space why didn't the catalyst (whatever it is) just simply open the relay, which would completely negated the need for any of the Mass effect games.

And what about the keepers weren't we supposed to find out more about them this game.

I thought the Catalyst was housed in the Citadel, rather than being the Citadel?

Eitherway it makes no sense to require soverign to open the relay when the catalyst could just do it him/her/its self.  That is the part that pisses me off really more than anything.  The lack of explaination and the plot hole that negates the entire series.

Cause the Catalyst can't act itself, otherwise there would be no need for Shepard to actually pick an option.
The Catalyst is not a god in the sense of being omnipotent. The Catalyst is simply the voice of Order in the Galaxy. It's up to the Reapers - or Shepard - to actually do something. There is no logical gap in this. The Catalyst simply observes that everything is more or less going according to plan, and if it doesn't, it acknowledges that a new solution must be found.

[tangalin]

Shinannigan wrote...

Abirn wrote...

HaiknEdge wrote...

Abirn wrote...

The catalyst is the citadel. So if the citadel was a relay to dark space why didn't the catalyst (whatever it is) just simply open the relay, which would completely negated the need for any of the Mass effect games.

And what about the keepers weren't we supposed to find out more about them this game.

I thought the Catalyst was housed in the Citadel, rather than being the Citadel?

Eitherway it makes no sense to require soverign to open the relay when the catalyst could just do it him/her/its self.  That is the part that pisses me off really more than anything.  The lack of explaination and the plot hole that negates the entire series.

Cause the Catalyst can't act itself, otherwise there would be no need for Shepard to actually pick an option.
The Catalyst is not a god in the sense of being omnipotent. The Catalyst is simply the voice of Order in the Galaxy. It's up to the Reapers - or Shepard - to actually do something. There is no logical gap in this. The Catalyst simply observes that everything is more or less going according to plan, and if it doesn't, it acknowledges that a new solution must be found.

And assists with implementing a new solution without actually being altered. Catalyst is actually pretty accurate for what the boy does. Still doesn't make it suck any less.

[dNIGHTSTALKERb]

I thought of it this way:
the catalyst could be some kind of god, but it refers to its kind as "we" so it must be a servant of the creator of the universe, or a conduit for god to speak through evident in the dual voice the child form has.
He/she is a formless being, however to Shepard he takes the form of a human child.
He/she has overseen the rise and fall of countless civilizations, and possibly in the first few cycles of organic life, found that life always finds a way to destroy itself. In the final scene of mass effect he states this quote after shepard says that they wipe out organic life, "we helped them ascend, so they can make way for new life." This sounds very close to the christian belief in "the rapture". the reapers take the organic life that has finished its cycle to make way for new life.
Thats just how I saw it, and it was actually a satisfying ending. I loved after the credits when the old man and boy are stargazing and you find that the shepard's exploits were retold in the future, with the boy refering to him as simply "the shepard" showing that shepard fostered a new era of life after the ending.

[iSpitfireee]

dNIGHTSTALKERb wrote...

I thought of it this way:
the catalyst could be some kind of god, but it refers to its kind as "we" so it must be a servant of the creator of the universe, or a conduit for god to speak through evident in the dual voice the child form has.
He/she is a formless being, however to Shepard he takes the form of a human child.
He/she has overseen the rise and fall of countless civilizations, and possibly in the first few cycles of organic life, found that life always finds a way to destroy itself. In the final scene of mass effect he states this quote after shepard says that they wipe out organic life, "we helped them ascend, so they can make way for new life." This sounds very close to the christian belief in "the rapture". the reapers take the organic life that has finished its cycle to make way for new life.
Thats just how I saw it, and it was actually a satisfying ending. I loved after the credits when the old man and boy are stargazing and you find that the shepard's exploits were retold in the future, with the boy refering to him as simply "the shepard" showing that shepard fostered a new era of life after the ending.

Ascend is faaar from christianity lol. Ascend means to ship human bodies into processing to be turned into husks. Just like how harbinger said "prepare these humans for acension" in ME2.

[Sajuro]

My Cannon is that the Catalyst is a stupid **** AI whose civilization thought "hey, what would happen if we put billions of our own people into a giant blender and unite their minds under a crazy AI?" and thus Harbinger was born.
In short and to paraphrase 8 bit theater: the question isn't what happened to the civilization, but how the **** did they survive long enough to get to that point.