68 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I think everyone is jumping the gun. Again. We jumped the gun over Multiplayer, we jumped the gun over the characters, and now we're jumping the gun over the endings.

Seriously, why is it folks have this need to have knee-jerk reactions over every thing they dislike?

There is no jumping the gun here - everyone is bringing up concerns that are well documents and people are well aware of.

As for knee - jerk reactions - I think in the development of Mass Effect as a whole - there is now a disparity between the vision the writers had for where it would go and the vision for where the players thought it was going.

Indeed - to be perfectly honest from my point of view - the endings (well lets be honest, the ending) and the whole guardian / catalyst / small child who is overused feels very out of place with the whole three Mass Effect games. It even feels out of place if Mass Effect 3 were a stand alone game.

Don't get me wrong - I think the endings are ok if a few things were changed in how they were obtained and how they're presented and throw in an epilogue that leaves no questions about Mass Effect Galaxy life after ME3.

Modifié par Icinix, 09 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[Zenoctilles]

Eterna5 wrote...

People thought the Mass effect 2 ending was bad too.

Except it could be justified. The ME3 ending can't be justified or rationalized. 

[AuraofMana]

Hexxys wrote...

It took the reapers centuries to harvest the Protheans, a race many magnitudes more advanced than this cycle's races. Javik himself can scarcely tolerate these "primitive races".

I don't know how many are dead exactly. But it's way more than 5%.

You know that the death/time ratio isn't actually constant throughout the thing right? The Reapers take forever because they have to find pockets of survivors who escaped. The galaxy is a huge place and there are a lot of planets and grounds to cover. The initial attack killed most of the people because most of them are on the Citadel or the home planets of their race.

[Texhnolyze101]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I think everyone is jumping the gun. Again. We jumped the gun over Multiplayer, we jumped the gun over the characters, and now we're jumping the gun over the endings.

Seriously, why is it folks have this need to have knee-jerk reactions over every thing they dislike?

I don't like MP in general and i don't like the endings either and never will the endings killed replayabilty for all 3 games for me as i see no real reason to waste my time playing them again with the endings we get in ME3.

[nssBoB]

the synthesis ending is indeed as optimistic as it gets in this kind of sci-fi - you gave fresh future for the whole galaxy, you ENDED the cycle of harvesting and on top of that you ensured that synthetics will not one day wipe out all organic life. I call that major victory for all life throught the galaxy. If you want happily ever after after ending go play hello kitty, i for one am totally sick of rainbow happy ends, but then it might just be that the ending reminded me Final Fantasy VII a lot.

[Aesieru]

nssBoB wrote...

the synthesis ending is indeed as optimistic as it gets in this kind of sci-fi - you gave fresh future for the whole galaxy, you ENDED the cycle of harvesting and on top of that you ensured that synthetics will not one day wipe out all organic life. I call that major victory for all life throught the galaxy. If you want happily ever after after ending go play hello kitty, i for one am totally sick of rainbow happy ends, but then it might just be that the ending reminded me Final Fantasy VII a lot.

You didn't ensure anything... all you did was make everyone the same, which if you think war can't exist between people the same... just look in a history book.

[Dranume]

Again, how is this jumping the gun.. When you go to a restaurant and hand back food because it was bad, cold, prepared the way that you dont want it, would you sit there and listen to the waiter tell you.. "Sir you are jumping the gun.. " Same thing, We got the game, played through it, got to the end and most were left disappointed with the 3 choices, I got emotional infront of my computer, I sat there and was like.. wow, is this really how its going to end. Not even a chance to have a different ending with everything at a 100%, galaxy exploration, military strength, Galaxy at war Multi Player. still the same 3 choices that end the same way.

"We are not asking for a complete rewrite of the game or replacing the current cinematics, We are asking for something different. Some DLC with a Happy ending for those that want it and a not so grim with a hint of happy for those that would be content with that one and then one with the Reapers killen every one because Shep got it wrong."

[Aesieru]

Dranume wrote...

Again, how is this jumping the gun.. When you go to a restaurant and hand back food because it was bad, cold, prepared the way that you dont want it, would you sit there and listen to the waiter tell you.. "Sir you are jumping the gun.. " Same thing, We got the game, played through it, got to the end and most were left disappointed with the 3 choices, I got emotional infront of my computer, I sat there and was like.. wow, is this really how its going to end. Not even a chance to have a different ending with everything at a 100%, galaxy exploration, military strength, Galaxy at war Multi Player. still the same 3 choices that end the same way.

"We are not asking for a complete rewrite of the game or replacing the current cinematics, We are asking for something different. Some DLC with a Happy ending for those that want it and a not so grim with a hint of happy for those that would be content with that one and then one with the Reapers killen every one because Shep got it wrong."

Neither of those, just one that gives more option fo runderstanding things.

[nssBoB]

Aesieru wrote...

nssBoB wrote...

the synthesis ending is indeed as optimistic as it gets in this kind of sci-fi - you gave fresh future for the whole galaxy, you ENDED the cycle of harvesting and on top of that you ensured that synthetics will not one day wipe out all organic life. I call that major victory for all life throught the galaxy. If you want happily ever after after ending go play hello kitty, i for one am totally sick of rainbow happy ends, but then it might just be that the ending reminded me Final Fantasy VII a lot.

You didn't ensure anything... all you did was make everyone the same, which if you think war can't exist between people the same... just look in a history book.

i never did said that wars cant happen, did you actually paid attention in the finale? you know to the point when catalyst says that one day synthetics will wipe out all organic life (and hell that could have been already in motion if it wasnt for shepard - HINT geth HINT. by doing the synthesis you made fear of synthetic AI a history ergo there can be a war ver opinions, religion or whatever else comes in mind but in the end life will prevail and thats what counts.

[ashwind]

Since ME1~ME2, I cannot imagine how can we beat the Reapers without extreme casualties. I have always wanted Shepard to die in the end; like my favorite Warden in DAO, well BW just made that easy for me .

Once any civilization discovers and uses Reaper technology such as Mass Relays and living on the Citadel, they are doom to follow a path somewhat designed by the Reapers. Tis like a mouse in a mouse trap but unaware.

So what if 100% of the advance civilization goes to hell together with the Reapers, those seafood has been playing God for god knows how long! Their term is seriously over due.

At least the younger organic life from hence on will no longer need to worry about the cycle designed by some "holier than thou" morons. No matter how many trillions died trying to stop them, trillion times more of that number will be free from the Reapers in the future.

For those displaced and left in total chaos by the aftermath, tough luck. Survival is not a right, it has to be earned

This is how I feel about the endings.

[MakeMineMako]

I would've liked a bittersweet happy ending. It was well deserved after all that death and destruction, not to mention the effort Shep put in to stop it.

But above all, you are forced into admitting that the Reapers were right all along. Which goes against everything Shepard stood for and fought against.

In Merge and Control, you are basically acknowleding that the Catalyst is right. Which is a load of crap. There should have been a classical persuasion option.

In Destroy, you beat the Reapers. But commit genocide and murder in the process (Geth and Edi). That's no real victory, and you are still forced to acknowledge that the Catalyst is right. Which, once again, is a load of bullsh*t.

[Voods07]

KitePolaris wrote...

SilencedScream wrote...

Not to mention the millions - possibly billions - of aliens that have now been displaced in the Sol system, unable to get home because of lack of mass relays. All those quarians you helped by getting their planet back? Yeah - their military's never gonna see that ****.

You're such a hero, Shepard.

So it takes a couple months to years to get back instead of days. FTL was never explicitly stated to be gone.

It is never explicitly stated that it remains in tact either.

Also, how is the Destroy ending not the optimal one? Are you serious? How the hell does shepard taking control of the reapers reconcile anything? He fought which that he became, ya right. And merging sythetics with orgaics, bye-bye individuality and personality, beings are basically husks.
Evolving to the point of sythesis between man and machine, that sounds familiar....lemme think...uhhh...REAPERS!! Great, the cycle has started all over agian. Don't argue with me either that I dont know thats how the reapers came about, because nobody else knows either.

The kid's explanations were such bull****, IT had no idea what it was talking about and I'm surprised, after all that has happened, Shepard listened to the damn thing.

Modifié par Voods07, 09 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[webhead921]

Eterna5 wrote...

People thought the Mass effect 2 ending was bad too.

It was, the last mission was very fun and it was very suspenseful knowing any of your squad members had the potential to die, but the meltimg humans to make a reaper was really, really stupid.

[Aesieru]

webhead921 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

People thought the Mass effect 2 ending was bad too.

It was, the last mission was very fun and it was very suspenseful knowing any of your squad members had the potential to die, but the meltimg humans to make a reaper was really, really stupid.

Uh... using the genetic data and code of others to create an embryo amalgamation of machine and flesh is not "dumb".

[webhead921]

ashwind wrote...

Since ME1~ME2, I cannot imagine how can we beat the Reapers without extreme casualties. I have always wanted Shepard to die in the end; like my favorite Warden in DAO, well BW just made that easy for me .

Once any civilization discovers and uses Reaper technology such as Mass Relays and living on the Citadel, they are doom to follow a path somewhat designed by the Reapers. Tis like a mouse in a mouse trap but unaware.

So what if 100% of the advance civilization goes to hell together with the Reapers, those seafood has been playing God for god knows how long! Their term is seriously over due.

At least the younger organic life from hence on will no longer need to worry about the cycle designed by some "holier than thou" morons. No matter how many trillions died trying to stop them, trillion times more of that number will be free from the Reapers in the future.

For those displaced and left in total chaos by the aftermath, tough luck. Survival is not a right, it has to be earned

This is how I feel about the endings.

I'm in the same boat.  There are huge casualties, and many are left stranded, but the vast majority of the galaxy is saved.  Also, we can build new relays.  The protheans built the conduit, it makes sense that humans/salarians/turians/hanar/drell/volus/elcor/krogan etc etc would be able to work together to build relays in the near future.

[Aesieru]

^ Extremely far future.

[Urazz]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Mass Effect 3's ending is on par with Cold War era mutually assured destruction. The Reapers failed to harvest the galaxy, but the loss of long-range FTL is apocalyptic. Galactic civilization is gone anyway.

Just the mass relays are gone.  Regular FTL to get from solar system to solar system is still available for intersystem travel.  It's only going from one cluster system to another that is going to take time.

It'll be the equivalent of having sail boats sail from Europe to the Americas.  It takes months to get ships between the two.  I figure it'll be the same for traditional FTL in Mass Effect.

Mass Relays are pretty much the equivalent air planes minimizing travel between countries.  Intead of taking months like we did with sail boats and the like, it only takes hours to a day.

Really, the only stupid part of the ending was the Normandy getting stranded while in relay travel.  The Normandy was in the battle, there was no reason for it to be traveling in a relay like they were running away.

Bioware makes some decent endings but nowadays, they seem to put in some factor that is really stupid.  I.E. the appearance of the human reaper and the Normandy getting stranded.

Modifié par Urazz, 09 mars 2012 - 03:19 .

[webhead921]

Aesieru wrote...

^ Extremely far future.

Maybe within the century?  I dunno, I'm just guessing.  Did ME1 say how long it took for the protheans to make the conduit?  Wasn't like 20 years or so?  I dont remember

[Aesieru]

MakeMineMako wrote...

I would've liked a bittersweet happy ending. It was well deserved after all that death and destruction, not to mention the effort Shep put in to stop it.

But above all, you are forced into admitting that the Reapers were right all along. Which goes against everything Shepard stood for and fought against.

In Merge and Control, you are basically acknowleding that the Catalyst is right. Which is a load of crap. There should have been a classical persuasion option.

In Destroy, you beat the Reapers. But commit genocide and murder in the process (Geth and Edi). That's no real victory, and you are still forced to acknowledge that the Catalyst is right. Which, once again, is a load of bullsh*t.

You want to persuade an unknown entity that has watched this 400+ times and therefore knows for certain it is right?

Sorry that doesn't make sense.

[deathscythe517]

Aesieru wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

I would've liked a bittersweet happy ending. It was well deserved after all that death and destruction, not to mention the effort Shep put in to stop it.

But above all, you are forced into admitting that the Reapers were right all along. Which goes against everything Shepard stood for and fought against.

In Merge and Control, you are basically acknowleding that the Catalyst is right. Which is a load of crap. There should have been a classical persuasion option.

In Destroy, you beat the Reapers. But commit genocide and murder in the process (Geth and Edi). That's no real victory, and you are still forced to acknowledge that the Catalyst is right. Which, once again, is a load of bullsh*t.

You want to persuade an unknown entity that has watched this 400+ times and therefore knows for certain it is right?

Sorry that doesn't make sense.

Now you're invoking a strawman! How do you know the giant space flee (or in this case omnipotent ghost kid that nearly everyone hates) out of nowhere is going off any factual data? Hell how do you know this thing isn't invoking a really weak argument to try and justify the purpose of the Reapers? The ending first kills the entire semi-realistic scifi feel of the entire series as well as the danger of the Reapers, puts giant plot holes in the first, second, and third game...and then effectively kills the universe in favor of pseudophilosophical bull**** because certain people want to feel like they're intelligent and deep thinkers experiencing something memorable when it's cliched, tired, used, and completely inappropriate for the game. Bioware introduced the Catalyst and suddenly switched the plot point to transhumanism for no ****ing reason than we're expected to go through with the choices that stupid ****ing thing puts before us because IT SAYS SO (and by extension Bioware says so) without any sort of proof that what it is doing is necessary.

The only justification you get for the 'synthetics bad' thing are from the quarians, which can be rectified in 3, and an im-better-than-you prothean making an offhand comment on the 'metacon war' (which came out of ****ing nowhere too). Hell, you should be able to point out to the little **** that what it's doing is pretty much negating the point of its goal - it's a retarded hypocrite at best and a genocidal monster with flimsy justifications at worst.

The child should have only been in the opening if that at all, he should not have been a key 'character', the crucible should have remained JUST a weapon, and the Reapers should have been left somewhat vague. Bioware instead chooses to butcher its own characters and universe in favor of 'it was all a story' and than tack on faux philosophy when it was not needed nor WANTED. They ****ed up, we have a right to tell them they ****ed up, and I'm going to be getting my money back at the end of the week.

[Vikali]

MakeMineMako wrote...

I would've liked a bittersweet happy ending. It was well deserved after all that death and destruction, not to mention the effort Shep put in to stop it.

But above all, you are forced into admitting that the Reapers were right all along. Which goes against everything Shepard stood for and fought against.

In Merge and Control, you are basically acknowleding that the Catalyst is right. Which is a load of crap. There should have been a classical persuasion option.

In Destroy, you beat the Reapers. But commit genocide and murder in the process (Geth and Edi). That's no real victory, and you are still forced to acknowledge that the Catalyst is right. Which, once again, is a load of bullsh*t.

EDI survived in my Destroy ending.

[webhead921]

KitePolaris wrote...


EDI survived in my Destroy ending.

Thats good to hear!

[Aesieru]

It's possible that the EDI survival was because of a glitch in the LI scene.

[Vikali]

Aesieru wrote...

It's possible that the EDI survival was because of a glitch in the LI scene.

Yet Shepard lives, too.
Who's to say the guardian wasn't lying to you to sway you to other reasons that result in the Reapers still existing? :3

Also, stuff's said to be unintended for half the Normandy crash scene, anyway.

[archvonbaron]

Just to add something to the OP about the death toll, it would of been very high. If you read the "Harvesting" codex entry it states that about 1.5-2million (can't remember the exact number) humans are killed in the slaughterhouses every day and that number will rise as more slaughterhouses are built, this isn't including deaths by disease, combat or starvation which could likely cause that to rise substantially. Add in Palavan where entire platoons of Turians are dying every hour in combat alone and Thessia which is lost to the Reapers, that alone will probably take the death toll to 10million a day including deaths in combat, harvesting, disease, starvation and accidents.

The Volus, Elcor and Hannar lost their home worlds adding even more to the daily death toll, add in colonies being harvested and out right destroyed because they weren't worth harvesting and you will easily end up with a death toll of 25-30+million a day.

If the Reaper war lasted longer then 4 weeks (a guess as we don't know how long it actually took) giving 700-840million dead, and I'm low balling it a little.

Yes I just pulled numbers out of my arse because we don't know much about the daily death toll or military casualties.