43 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

Hell Hunger would be a better motivation than what we got.

[Voods07]

Answer me this:
If the reapers harvested the top species and (according to the catalyst) let the smaller ones go, then why were the Reapers destroying ALL the races that were "little"? The Reapers seemed to let the Yhaag alone, deeming them the "dominant" race, so why didn't they reaper-smoothy all of them and leave Asari, Turuans, Krogans, Salarians and ESPECIALLY humans (as we have lived WAYYYYY less than all the other space-faring species)alone?

Modifié par Voods07, 09 mars 2012 - 02:21 .

[Aesieru]

Voods07 wrote...

Answer me this:
If the reapers harvested the top species and (according to the catalyst) let the smaller ones go, then why were the Reapers destroying ALL the races that were "little"? The Reapers seemed to let the Yhaag alone, deeming them the "dominant" race, so why didn't they reaper-smoothy all of them and leave Asari, Turuans, Krogans, Salarians and ESPECIALLY humans (as we have lived WAYYYYY less than all the other space-faring species)alone?

Your statement makes no sense...

The Reapers have never targeted non-advanced civilizations...

[Hexxys]

Aesieru wrote...

Hexxys wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Actual reason if properly understood makes sense, why people can't understand it is exactly the whole "impossible to comprehend" thing.

If by "impossible to comrehend" you mean "so stupid as to be incomprehensible", sure.  It's not hard to make sense of what is being said by the space toddler.  But making sense of something doesn't mean it makes sense.

You misused stupid, how can we listen to a person on their thoughts of the endings if they can't even use a common word properly? Answer? We can't.

Run-on sentence!  Omg your opinion is invalid!

[Voods07]

Aesieru wrote...

Voods07 wrote...

Answer me this:
If the reapers harvested the top species and (according to the catalyst) let the smaller ones go, then why were the Reapers destroying ALL the races that were "little"? The Reapers seemed to let the Yhaag alone, deeming them the "dominant" race, so why didn't they reaper-smoothy all of them and leave Asari, Turuans, Krogans, Salarians and ESPECIALLY humans (as we have lived WAYYYYY less than all the other space-faring species)alone?

Your statement makes no sense...

The Reapers have never targeted non-advanced civilizations...

Its called a question, not a statement, first.

Ok then, who/what were the un-advanced species then? The Hanar?

[Aesieru]

Voods07 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Voods07 wrote...

Answer me this:
If the reapers harvested the top species and (according to the catalyst) let the smaller ones go, then why were the Reapers destroying ALL the races that were "little"? The Reapers seemed to let the Yhaag alone, deeming them the "dominant" race, so why didn't they reaper-smoothy all of them and leave Asari, Turuans, Krogans, Salarians and ESPECIALLY humans (as we have lived WAYYYYY less than all the other space-faring species)alone?

Your statement makes no sense...

The Reapers have never targeted non-advanced civilizations...

Its called a question, not a statement, first.

Ok then, who/what were the un-advanced species then? The Hanar?

Any race not mentioned is going to be considered unadvanced, the Yagh is an exception.

Some planet description entries reference other unknown species too.

[Voods07]

Aesieru wrote...

Any race not mentioned is going to be considered unadvanced, the Yagh is an exception.

Some planet description entries reference other unknown species too.

Ok, fine with that.

Then if we (Humans, Asari, Turians, etc etc) were deemed "advanced", why was there no mention of the Reapers harvesting us as per the Catalyst's description? They were absolutley decimating our planets, fleets and population.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Aesieru wrote...

SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Actual reason if properly understood makes sense, why people can't understand it is exactly the whole "impossible to comprehend" thing.

Because it's not impossible to comprehend. It's actually very easy to comprehend. It's like a textbook example of a few simple, basic logical fallacies. Coupled with extremely narrow-minded thinking and a total lack of creativity.

There wasn't any room for interpretation of the Catalyst's motives or reasoning. He said it simply and definitively. He was also about as logical, internally consistent, and non-hypocritical as racial supremacist committing genocide because "the blacks" would inevitably rise up and wipe out "the whites". I'm not kidding, it's about the same level of logic, narrow-mindedness, and internal consistency as the Reapers and the Catalyst.

If you could understand the need for it you wouldn't be insulting it, and if you saw something 400+ times over wouldn't you speak with absolute certainty too?

You don't even need the Quarian Geth Conflict (or EDI for that matter) to disprove the Catalyst's theory that synthetic life will always destroy organic life.  He himself disproves his theory.  We know that the Catalyst is a synthetic life-form.  In fact, for his theory to have any validity, he would have to be the first, otherwise organic life would have already been wiped out.  So we can surmise that he was created, came in conflict with his creators, and with his super intellect came to the conclusion that he needed to wipe them out. 

Apparently this bothered him to some extent, because instead of outright annhilation, he preserved them in reaper form.  He carries this onto all future organic life.  He intentionally, does not wipe out most of the organic life in the galaxy.  He, the orginal synthetic life form, does not wish to destroy organic life.  Yet he manages to conclude that synthetic life will "ALWAYS" annihilate ALL organic life.  

If the claim is simply that the created always rebel against the creators, than there is no benefit to being wiped out by the reapers vs being wiped out by the synthetics they will eventually create.  The Catalyst's logic must be that future synthetic life will wipe out ALL organic life.  But it's logic can only stand if this occurs 100% of the time, since the reapers will destroy each race eventually 100% of the time.  Since he himself does not destroy all organic life, it cannot be 100% of the time, thus the ending should have been Shepard explaining this to him Landru style until the catalyst self-destructs at the realization of it's own logical inconsitencies.

The claim above that the Catalyst has seen synthetics turn on organics 400+ times before and thus speaks with certainty is patently false.  If it happens even a single time, there is no organic life left for the Catalyst to turn into reapers in the future, as it would have been wiped out prior to the catalysts solution.

This is reasoning unworthy of an intelligence multiple orders of magnitude greater than our own.  The OP has a better motive with almost no effort. 

Modifié par Atraiyu Wrynn, 09 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[Zen_Mojo]

Aesieru wrote...

Actually...

Forces ally many times in history, then they kill each other later.

Also, hundreds of civilizations had been harvested before, they saw proof tons of times of what happened, it might take time, but it was inevitable.

It was 20 years between World War I and World War II.  It's been 70 years since the last World War.  Just helps to keep some perspective.

[OblivionDawn]

I agree, OP's motive is much better.

Afterward, we could have kept all our technology and used the remains of the Reaper technology to expand to other galaxies.

The current ending suggests that space-travel and technology and expansion is bad, which is, of course, completely idiotic.

[Zen_Mojo]

OblivionDawn wrote...

I agree, OP's motive is much better.

Afterward, we could have kept all our technology and used the remains of the Reaper technology to expand to other galaxies.

The current ending suggests that space-travel and technology and expansion is bad, which is, of course, completely idiotic.

I feel like someone took too many notes from Battlestar Galactica's pro-Luddite stance on science.

[deathscythe517]

Zen_Mojo wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

I agree, OP's motive is much better.

Afterward, we could have kept all our technology and used the remains of the Reaper technology to expand to other galaxies.

The current ending suggests that space-travel and technology and expansion is bad, which is, of course, completely idiotic.

I feel like someone took too many notes from Battlestar Galactica's pro-Luddite stance on science.

Indeed, what I hate to see in science fiction is when the message of the story is derailed for a half-assed aesop on the dangers of science/advancement. With Deus Ex, it's left ambiguous, but in ME3 it's crammed down your throat in the last 10 minutes that 'SYNTHETICS BAD!' no matter how illogical, hypocritical, and downright wrong it is.

[Militarized]

Aesieru wrote...

Reapers aren't synthetic.

They are Sapient Constructs.

Doesn't the catalyst specifically say they're a synthetic? I don't see them being sapient, they seem to all have the same idea/goal burrowed into their thoughtless "sapience". They do not express the essence of any of the cultures they once were. 

[Harbinger of Hope]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

The reapers destroy organics because of a paradox. Seems like that whole "give an AI a paradox and it will self-destruct" really backfired on organics didn't it?

How to really beat the Catalyst:

"THIS. SENTENCE. IS. FALSE!. Dontthinkaboutit, dontthinkaboutit, dontthinkaboutit, dontthinkaboutit."

[movieguyabw]

No explanation or reason for the Reapers is best.

Sovereign said it in the first game - that an organic mind is incapable of understanding their motivations, or what they are. Telling us "This is what they are, and this is why they're doing all of this" defeats that whole concept, and significantly reduces their supposed power. Best if all we know is that they're an unknowable threat that we have to repel. It's the difference in power between Lovecraft's Old Ones, and George Lucas' Sith. Tell us what they are and give us a motivation, and it humanizes them. Make their existence and goals unknown, and make their influence all powerful, and then that's an enemy we will fear.

[SnakeSNMF]

Troutz wrote...

Your idea has way more merit than the Catalyst crap. But honestly, I almost prefer no explanation.

We're told over the course of all three games that the Reapers' existence and their motives are unfathomable. We mortal can't even comprehend why they do what they do. So why try and make us comprehend it? Just let us destroy them, and leave their purpose shrouded in mystery.

This.

[JShepppp]

Hi, I know I'm late to the forum and stuff but somehow came across this. Basically the options you mentioned, that (1) overcrowding can lead to some kind of conflict and (2) allow younger races to develop freely, are things that the Catalyst DOES take into account. These are removed from the final game but are in the leaked script in Nov - basically that they "harvest advanced civilizations while allowing new ones to flourish". Part of their purpose is promoting organic life by stopping other organics from squishing before they become "great" civilizations. Then at the apex, they believe they're doing a good thing by helping them join the Reapers while also stopping them from creating AIs that squash all organic life.

Not that I agree with them. Just wanted to say that your reasoning is part of what the Catalyst does.

[marrak]

Lyriq wrote...

I always thought the reapers were harvesting species to reproduce >> What with them building a reaper out of humans and all.

I was disappointed when I found out the "actual" reason.

I liked this. Essentially wiping out several galactic civilizations to build a new kid or two.

Edi said it best: the reapers are just about survival, and nothing says that better than ensuring the propogation of your species by wiping out entire cultures and races.

[MOIST N FLUFFY]

JShepppp wrote...

Hi, I know I'm late to the forum and stuff but somehow came across this. Basically the options you mentioned, that (1) overcrowding can lead to some kind of conflict and (2) allow younger races to develop freely, are things that the Catalyst DOES take into account. These are removed from the final game but are in the leaked script in Nov - basically that they "harvest advanced civilizations while allowing new ones to flourish". Part of their purpose is promoting organic life by stopping other organics from squishing before they become "great" civilizations. Then at the apex, they believe they're doing a good thing by helping them join the Reapers while also stopping them from creating AIs that squash all organic life.

Not that I agree with them. Just wanted to say that your reasoning is part of what the Catalyst does.

Agreed. The general idea of killing a species to save the animal kingdom is represented in either circumstance.