128 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

Because I love, I really love, my big big sword and my decapitation abilities!!! (and the finishing moves with it!)

[orpheus333]

Because mage head gear looks like someone took a dump on a brick and hurled it at your head.

[Xultep]

Faerell Gustani wrote...

So, what if I want to play a CC styled mage but also want a gameplay challenge?
I mean, I love mages. I love the concept of wielding arcane powers, but just about every game I play makes mages superbly overpowered to the point where it's no fun to play them.

In other words, yes, game balance does matter. If by playing a mage, the game becomes easier all around, there is a detrimental effect on enjoyment of the game. I don't enjoy easy mode, and nor do most gamers. We wouldn't be gamers if we didn't want a challenge.

Personally, I think CC is the difference between what makes a battle hard or not!  The biggest complaint in MMO's is always people with too much CC as well.  Personally, I don't like mages having CC, but since there is friendly fire, it's not too OP.  But if I don't have a lot of CC in this game is like 100 times harder!  I remember, my main 2H warrior with a physical resistance through the roof and he did not get to attack once, because he was stunned the entire time...  So I like to pay back in kind

However, since mages do have some of the best AoE CC, I can see why you would think that.  But being a "gamer" I do not think this is a DA:O issue, rather a gaming issue in general.  The more CC you have the easier the game is going to be whether it be SP, MP, or MMO!

In review you are a self-hating uber munchkin

[Oliver Sudden]

I guess my game is glitched.



I have four people (well, three people and a dog) in my party, and I get to play them all. I don't have just one character.

[orpheus333]

Two Warriors working together with taunt and Disengage is all the CC you really need. Combine that with high physical resistance or indomitable and you have a very succesful fighting force that isn't souly reliant on Mages for crowd control. Infact its more efficiant than using a mage as crowd control as they can utilise more powerful spells instead.

.

[Faerell Gustani]

Xultep wrote...

Faerell Gustani wrote...

So, what if I want to play a CC styled mage but also want a gameplay challenge?
I mean, I love mages. I love the concept of wielding arcane powers, but just about every game I play makes mages superbly overpowered to the point where it's no fun to play them.

In other words, yes, game balance does matter. If by playing a mage, the game becomes easier all around, there is a detrimental effect on enjoyment of the game. I don't enjoy easy mode, and nor do most gamers. We wouldn't be gamers if we didn't want a challenge.

Personally, I think CC is the difference between what makes a battle hard or not!  The biggest complaint in MMO's is always people with too much CC as well.  Personally, I don't like mages having CC, but since there is friendly fire, it's not too OP.  But if I don't have a lot of CC in this game is like 100 times harder!  I remember, my main 2H warrior with a physical resistance through the roof and he did not get to attack once, because he was stunned the entire time...  So I like to pay back in kind

However, since mages do have some of the best AoE CC, I can see why you would think that.  But being a "gamer" I do not think this is a DA:O issue, rather a gaming issue in general.  The more CC you have the easier the game is going to be whether it be SP, MP, or MMO!

In review you are a self-hating uber munchkin

lol, actually, you'll see that it's the opposite.  I avoid playing mages because of this problem.
You're also right, it's not a DA:O exclusive issue, it's an issue with all games.

My post was mostly in response to all of the people saying that Game Balance doesn't matter in a single player game.  I was trying to demonstrate how definitively wrong they are.

Also, telling me to just not play a mage doesn't address the problem either, it just avoids the issue.  It's not a fix, it's a work-around...conseqentially a work-around that causes me to exclude 2 NPCs, and 1 origin story from this game.

I suppose I'm just getting irritated with all of the people saying "It's fine" when it really isn't.  Those people aren't really Gamers in my opinion.  They're just people who would rather read a novel or watch a movie because they don't seem to care about gameplay.

[MR-9]

Byrnghaer wrote...

Because i hate the robed, gentle and 'polite' (for lack of a better word) appearance of mages.
I love barbarians, light leather armour, preferably bear or wolfskin, long beard, dual axes, long hair, basically a Viking Berserk, not giving a crap about their own safety as long as they can hurt and kill their foe in a barbaric rage.
Mages simply dont come close to that personality.
Being brutal without remorse, emerging from the mist to eviscerate anyone who stands against you.

God of War is your friend.

[catofnine]

I love my rogue and quite enjoy obliterating casters with her.



I purposely avoided playing an offensive mage, because I knew it would ruin my game. Got Cone of Cold on Morrigan, used it twice and then promptly shelved her. It would have trivialized the game for me to have her around so Wynne is the only mage I use. While Wynne doesn't have much by way of offensive spells, Leliana and I can easily make up for her lethargic dps. Wynne just gives me heals, buffs, occasional cc and autoattack.



I like glass cannons and played them in quite a few games. However, here given the instant e-z mode dps mages give you I won't make one until I'm on my very last playthrough and ready to shelve the game for good.

[Pseron Wyrd]

Faerell Gustani wrote...
Those people aren't really Gamers in my opinion.  They're just people who would rather read a novel or watch a movie because they don't seem to care about gameplay.

I play RPGs to roleplay my character. I don't play RPGs for the combat. I don't play RPGs to get uber stats on a "toon". I play RPGs to roleplay a character whose personality and background, etc, I have spent much time creating.

I will leave so-called gameplay to folks who prefer to play first-person shooters.

Modifié par Pseron Wyrd, 26 novembre 2009 - 10:28 .

[Prexxus]

Because I don't like playing mages.

[Balderhagen]

Non mage PC character means more of a challenge maybe?

[TileToad]

Because I prefer cool looking armor over some rags and hearing those clinging noises of raw metal weapons!

[Faerell Gustani]

Pseron Wyrd wrote...

Faerell Gustani wrote...
Those people aren't really Gamers in my opinion.  They're just people who would rather read a novel or watch a movie because they don't seem to care about gameplay.

I play RPGs to roleplay my character. I don't play RPGs for the combat. I don't play RPGs to get uber stats on a "toon". I play RPGs to roleplay a character whose personality and background, etc, I have spent much time creating.

I will leave so-called gameplay to folks who prefer to play first-person shooters.

I'm curious as to how much RP you can actually get in on a cRPG.
If I want good roleplay I'll go play tabletop games or LARP.

Either way though, if you're going to talk about Roleplaying, there's a challenge in that as well which makes it a game:
*RPing a character you're not use to playing.
*RPing in an environment or gaming group where sometimes your opposition is the other player.

That's considered gameplay as well.
The issue I have is that Dragon Age was billed as a tactical RPG akin to Baldur's Gate.  Playing a mage throws the "tactical" part out the window as every combat becomes a cakewalk.

Gameplay applies on many levels, the reason why mechanical balance is necessary is that it makes the tactical gameplay aspect possible.  The RP gameplay aspect is another issue and it's not something that I'm addressing when I'm clearly talking about mechanical balance.

[Pseron Wyrd]

Faerell Gustani wrote...
I'm curious as to how much RP you can actually get in on a cRPG.

Roleplaying happens in the imagination. I can use my imagination just as easily when I play a computer game as when I play a PnP game.

With a little ingenuity it can even be done, in a limited way, in first-person shooters. I once roleplayed that my character in Half-Life was a female lab technician impersonating Gordon Freeman. She was a spy who had stolen Freeman's ID and used his papers to bluff her way into the complex. And of course once she got into that Hazmat suit nobody could tell the difference. 

[Faerell Gustani]

Pseron Wyrd wrote...
Roleplaying happens in the imagination. I can use my imagination just as easily when I play a computer game as when I play a PnP game.

With a little ingenuity it can even be done, in a limited way, in first-person shooters. I once roleplayed that my character in Half-Life was a female lab technician impersonating Gordon Freeman. She was a spy who had stolen Freeman's ID and used his papers to bluff her way into the complex. And of course once she got into that Hazmat suit nobody could tell the difference. 

You really don't need a game (computer or otherwise) to RP in then do you?  I'm sure it helps facilitate, but it doesn't seem like it's necessary.  I likewise do what you do, but I find it hard with cRPGs because I frequently find myself considering dialogue options that aren't availible.

But, we're detracting from the thread now.  My point is that mechanical balance is an important factor to a game (single player or otherwise), especially when the game is billed as a "Tactical" RPG.
As it stands, Mage are overpowered, and it dissappoints me.

[phordicus]

because it's an RPG and not about lolwtfpwning everywhere you go.

Modifié par phordicus, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:16 .

[Faerell Gustani]

phordicus wrote...

because it's an RPG and not about lolwtfpwning everywhere you go.

Precisely, that's why playing a mage is not fun currently.  I would like it to be fun rather than just steamrolling every encounter with AoE damage and CC.

[JaegerBane]

Faerell Gustani wrote...

phordicus wrote...

because it's an RPG and not about lolwtfpwning everywhere you go.

Precisely, that's why playing a mage is not fun currently.  I would like it to be fun rather than just steamrolling every encounter with AoE damage and CC.

Speak for yourself. I thoroughly enjoy walking through a cave of uglies and rattling off combo after combo of spells while my mortal sidekicks scramble around finishing off my victims.

[Domi-kuin]

JaegerBane wrote...

Faerell Gustani wrote...

phordicus wrote...

because it's an RPG and not about lolwtfpwning everywhere you go.

Precisely, that's why playing a mage is not fun currently.  I would like it to be fun rather than just steamrolling every encounter with AoE damage and CC.

Speak for yourself. I thoroughly enjoy walking through a cave of uglies and rattling off combo after combo of spells while my mortal sidekicks scramble around finishing off my victims.

Nice, want a medal for that?

Perhaps you should stick to playing hello kitty games, that offer no challenge.

[Tonya777]

Cause sooner or later you will finish the game with your mage



Then even if you make a 2nd mage sooner or later you will finish it with them too



So try a rogue a ranger a DD warrior a tank warrior save all too

[Faerell Gustani]

Yeah, you can do that if you turn down the difficulty too. Why put the difficulty into class choice? Keep difficulty choices on the difficulty meter.



I mean, obliterating hordes of enemies with spell combos is fun for the first 2 or 3 times, but it gets boring after awhile since that's all you really end up doing. One AoE combo is about as good as another. I would like a challenge to be had as a mage, that it doesn't exist detracts from the game horribly.

[Ace Attorney]

chiliztri wrote...

Because finishing moves ftw.

QFT. Nothing says awesome more that beheading your opponent.

[Faerell Gustani]

Tonya777 wrote...

Cause sooner or later you will finish the game with your mage

Then even if you make a 2nd mage sooner or later you will finish it with them too

So try a rogue a ranger a DD warrior a tank warrior save all too

My first run through was a dual weild Rogue
I'm going through with a sword/board Warrior right now.

Ultimately though, it's not an issue of what my main character is.  I have 2 mage NPCs that will both easily dominate the battle if I just follow their natural progression.  The only solutions to having a tactical challenge is to:
1. Level their characters up like a retard.
2. Play the mages like a retard.
3. Don't use them in the party.

All in all, not very good choices.

[Tonya777]

Tactical challenge? Play on nightmare WITHOUT Wynne in your party



That is no stroll in the park for sure

[Darpaek]

Because I want to be King.