100 réponses à ce sujet

[Matthew Young CT]

I'm not gloating, I'm making the point that you can play the game for a long time and have no issues at all. Looking at this forum gives one no idea how buggy the game actually is.

[Hrtlsmoe]

they are making DLC when there are issues with the game itself. Is that smart or are they selling their DLC to people who HAPPEN to run the game without a problem.

[Matthew Young CT]

They can patch and make DLC at the same time, which is what they're doing.

[jableskage]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They can patch and make DLC at the same time, which is what they're doing.

wrong answer fanboy... they should fix the initial game before releasing DLC for a broken game.

[Drakron]

enderandrew wrote...

The weird thing with Vampire: Bloodlines was that Half-Life 2 kept getting pushed back. Troika kept saying V:B was ready and they were just waiting on HL2. Which meant that they stopped development early, even though they had time on their hands, and they must have known they were sitting on a very buggy product.

Troika had good designers, but they put out several technically flawed products.

It was, they even added new content due to Half-Life 2 delays and reworked things as they were bound by HL2 release date.

It still does not change they were using a Alpha Build of Source that most of the issues lies, the rest is the usual scripting typing errors as a lot of the restored content is dubious as things can be completed and then later decided they sould not be used and left in (not to mention deliberate changes done by the unofficial patch that are hardly "restored" content or bug fixes).

Modifié par Drakron, 28 novembre 2009 - 06:42 .

[Matthew Young CT]

jableskage wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They can patch and make DLC at the same time, which is what they're doing.

wrong answer fanboy... they should fix the initial game before releasing DLC for a broken game.

OK the DLC team should sit on their hands while the patch team does their work. This is a complete waste of money, but whatever.

[Cyric0]

As far as console fixes go, people seem to be forgetting the fact that Sony and Microsoft have to ok any patches put out on their systems, which means they do their own QA with it.

[DrowNoble]

I have to say for a game that's been in development for 5 years, this game wasn't ready to be released. I don't know if this is Bioware's 1st major mistake or EA pushing the game out early to make the xmas release. Personally, I think it's the latter. Especially since they seemed to be more worried about selling me more DLC than actually making the game playable.

Coming from how good Mass Effect was, Dragon Age is a huge disappointment for me. Never had any issues with ME tech-wise, can play it on max settings just fine. Dragon Age works for only a few minutes before gameplay gets very choppy and the load times start increasing to absurd times.

*EDIT*

OH and yes, they should pull everyone off the DLC team to work on squashing all the bugs.  That would be very efficient use of human resources.  Little point on adding more paint to the car if it won't start. 

Modifié par DrowNoble, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:20 .

[flamingdts]

enderandrew wrote...

Historically, Bioware has done a fantastic job patching and supporting their games. Bioware and Blizzard lead the industry in this regard.

Historically, EA has been terrible at paying staff to support and patch products. EA now owns Bioware sadly.

I'm honestly curious how that plays out.

Bioware, unfortunately, does not belong in the same page as Blizzard.

When it comes to supporting and patching their games, Valve and Blizzard are the best of them all. Valve releases free DLCs, and their games have little to no bugs when released. Blizzard and Valve are far far ahead when it comes to quality, because none of their games have suffered from issues that cause gameplay problems (such as the dex issue) on release. 

Bioware releases quality products, but unfortunately, they're part of EA. Which means they will spend millions of dollars working on a very high quality product, but release it before checking for errors. Of course, that is at least better than the other crap that EA pulls off, since they won't spend time making a very high quality product in the first place.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

DrowNoble wrote...
OH and yes, they should pull everyone off the DLC team to work on squashing all the bugs.  That would be very efficient use of human resources.  Little point on adding more paint to the car if it won't start. 

Except for the fact that you can't just expect the painter to do the mechanic's job. So you're saying the painters should sit still and do nothing until the mechanics are finished... and you call that efficient?
See my posts about this on the previous pages!


FYI: Fernando Melo posted an update on the progress of the 1.02 patch. Apparently they're making good progress with some issues, and they hope to release a list of which issues will be in the patch sometime next week.
From which you can derive that the patch itself is definitely not going to be released next week.

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:43 .

[Cheiron the Centaur]

DrowNoble wrote...

I have to say for a game that's been in development for 5 years, this game wasn't ready to be released. I don't know if this is Bioware's 1st major mistake or EA pushing the game out early to make the xmas release. Personally, I think it's the latter. Especially since they seemed to be more worried about selling me more DLC than actually making the game playable.

Coming from how good Mass Effect was, Dragon Age is a huge disappointment for me. Never had any issues with ME tech-wise, can play it on max settings just fine. Dragon Age works for only a few minutes before gameplay gets very choppy and the load times start increasing to absurd times.

Have you thought of the possibility that Bioware - and everyone beta testing the game - never ran into these problem on all their various test setups? Personally, I have not yet ran into the choppy gameplay and increased load times issue either, even though I'm nearing the end of the game with my first character. There are so many different PC configurations possible, that it's impossible to test all possible setups. Issues like these may well be related to specific hardware components.

With every game (in fact, every piece of software) that is released, a group of people run into problems, while others play it without major issues. If you happen to be unlucky enough to belong to the problem group, then you'll feel that the game is extremely buggy and that it wasn't ready to be released, while people in the no-major-problems group feel the game is very stable and bug free. It is impossible to find all bugs in a project this size, no matter how long you test. And if you never had any issues with Mass Effect or any of the Blizzard/Valve games, that doesn't mean the bugs weren't there, it only means you were in the 'lucky' group there.

That said, Bioware has a pretty good track record for supporting and patching their games as well (just look at the patches and free updates they've released for the Neverwinter Nights series!). I doubt that the fact that their games are now distributed through EA will change that.

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:59 .

[KB3SKU]

The game works ok for me,only problem i have is the long load times. Honestly though they should fix the bugs before they make any more DLC.

No sense in makeing more DLC if people arnt going to buy them cause there game is bugged.

[dbmccart]

flamingdts wrote...

enderandrew wrote...

Historically, Bioware has done a fantastic job patching and supporting their games. Bioware and Blizzard lead the industry in this regard.

Historically, EA has been terrible at paying staff to support and patch products. EA now owns Bioware sadly.

I'm honestly curious how that plays out.

Bioware, unfortunately, does not belong in the same page as Blizzard.

When it comes to supporting and patching their games, Valve and Blizzard are the best of them all. Valve releases free DLCs, and their games have little to no bugs when released. Blizzard and Valve are far far ahead when it comes to quality, because none of their games have suffered from issues that cause gameplay problems (such as the dex issue) on release. 
Please don't mention Blizzard in the forum I don't think many us are as fond of them as we were prior to the release of World of Warcraft. Well I suppose they still have Starcraft and Diablo until they need to exploit another one of their series for money.

Bioware releases quality products, but unfortunately, they're part of EA. Which means they will spend millions of dollars working on a very high quality product, but release it before checking for errors. Of course, that is at least better than the other crap that EA pulls off, since they won't spend time making a very high quality product in the first place.

If your going to talk about Blizzard do it elsewhere, no true PC Gamer is that fond of Blizzard anymore since they released the garbage that is World of Warcraft. Which ruined anychange of a Warcraft 4 they made sure of that much. To what end, they exploited a series that could have been much better so they could make more money.

Modifié par dbmccart, 28 novembre 2009 - 08:47 .

[Sabin Stargem]

The creation of DLC takes a different skillset from programming - things like creating storylines, balancing encounters, equipment, new skills, and so on. A programmer is likely to be more about altering how the game works, not concentrating on producing results with the finished product.



Furthermore, the dreaded bureaucracy that infests all social structures isn't likely to allow employees a flexible schedule or work plan - that messes up the pay roll. The industry is now fairly mature in 2009, not the rogue entity that it was in the 1980s.

[jableskage]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

jableskage wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They can patch and make DLC at the same time, which is what they're doing.

wrong answer fanboy... they should fix the initial game before releasing DLC for a broken game.

OK the DLC team should sit on their hands while the patch team does their work. This is a complete waste of money, but whatever.

ok mathew you are a dick, but yes the DLC should not be released until the game is fixed. the DLC team can make up as many fancy stories as they want and rip us off for it as well but dont release until we have a fully functioning game.

[Niella]

God there's a lot of bull**** in this thread, Bioware not supporting a game after release? Sure thing, NWN wasn't supported at all.



Also, Bioware had about 600 employees when EA bought them, maybe they can make DLC and fix issues at the same time, mind boggling stuff.

[jableskage]

Niella wrote...

God there's a lot of bull**** in this thread, Bioware not supporting a game after release? Sure thing, NWN wasn't supported at all.

Also, Bioware had about 600 employees when EA bought them, maybe they can make DLC and fix issues at the same time, mind boggling stuff.

stfu

[Matthew Young CT]

jableskage wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

jableskage wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They can patch and make DLC at the same time, which is what they're doing.

wrong answer fanboy... they should fix the initial game before releasing DLC for a broken game.

OK the DLC team should sit on their hands while the patch team does their work. This is a complete waste of money, but whatever.

ok mathew you are a dick, but yes the DLC should not be released until the game is fixed. the DLC team can make up as many fancy stories as they want and rip us off for it as well but dont release until we have a fully functioning game.

So kind!

So you want Bioware to have the DLC team sitting on their hands, paying them money for doing no work, while the programmers fix bugs. Righto.

I guess if Bioware released the patch now and it had problems you'd whine that it didn't go through more QA.

[flamingdts]

dbmccart wrote...

flamingdts wrote...

enderandrew wrote...

Historically, Bioware has done a fantastic job patching and supporting their games. Bioware and Blizzard lead the industry in this regard.

Historically, EA has been terrible at paying staff to support and patch products. EA now owns Bioware sadly.

I'm honestly curious how that plays out.

Bioware, unfortunately, does not belong in the same page as Blizzard.

When it comes to supporting and patching their games, Valve and Blizzard are the best of them all. Valve releases free DLCs, and their games have little to no bugs when released. Blizzard and Valve are far far ahead when it comes to quality, because none of their games have suffered from issues that cause gameplay problems (such as the dex issue) on release. 
Please don't mention Blizzard in the forum I don't think many us are as fond of them as we were prior to the release of World of Warcraft. Well I suppose they still have Starcraft and Diablo until they need to exploit another one of their series for money.

Bioware releases quality products, but unfortunately, they're part of EA. Which means they will spend millions of dollars working on a very high quality product, but release it before checking for errors. Of course, that is at least better than the other crap that EA pulls off, since they won't spend time making a very high quality product in the first place.

If your going to talk about Blizzard do it elsewhere, no true PC Gamer is that fond of Blizzard anymore since they released the garbage that is World of Warcraft. Which ruined anychange of a Warcraft 4 they made sure of that much. To what end, they exploited a series that could have been much better so they could make more money.

Whatever "true PC Gamer" means, you're generalizing. For your information, I don't like WoW, but I like Blizzard as a company. Making warcraft 4 is exploiting the series just as much as WoW is. 

I'm also guessing you have no idea how much money WOW has made. A warcraft 4 (which I would be more fond of) would never have made as much profit as WOW. Yes, the game is redundant (IMO), but for 10 million others out there, it's not. So no, just because you're not fond of it, doesn't make it garbage. Next time you post, try not to throw your own facts into the equation.

Let's move back to topic then. When can we expect a release date bioware? 

Modifié par flamingdts, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:10 .

[Tosheroon]

These threads are why game forums are becoming so intolerable. People can quite aggressively vent about all the supposed bugs in a game, and yet can't be bothered to provide a complete list of confirmed bugs when they open such a topic.



Not to mention the tendency for others to jump on the proverbial bandwagon and list certain gameplay dynamics they dislike as 'bugs', e.g. mage balance. And, of course, let's not forget the DLC thread hijackers.



Food for thought: If the DLC team is put on hold to somehow increase patch department throughput (I'm guessing by conducting some sort of channelling ritual), how will they ever ensure that future DLC does not introduce new bugs or conflict with patch changes? Or put another way, is it not possible that the DLC team itself might discover as yet hidden bugs for the patch team to squash?



Meh.

[DevaWinblood]

jableskage wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They can patch and make DLC at the same time, which is what they're doing.

wrong answer fanboy... they should fix the initial game before releasing DLC for a broken game.

I am seeing a lot of people post things like this on various threads.   The general statement "Why are they working on DLC when they should be fixing the things that are not working?"

Well, I'll say it again.   They likely have two (or more) completely different teams working on the issues.  DLC could have several teams (depending on how many DLC projects they have in the works).   These teams would be focusing on story, scripting the new areas, making new areas, etc.    They would NOT consist of programmers who can track down memory leaks, driver issues, etc.   Two COMPLETELY different skill sets.   The people making the DLC do not necessarily have the skills to even work on the PATCH.   If they were involved with DLC or part of the game that has a bug in a script then perhaps they might help with that.   If that is the case they will likely submit a fix to a script to the patch team and the patch team will hold that fix until they are ready to release it.   Another aspect is if there is an art glitch then an artist might fix a texture or something of that nature.   They would then submit the fix to the patch team working on the patches.   In the case of the person that fixed the script and the artist it may have taken them very little time and they may have submitted their fix.   At that time there is nothing they themselves can do to speed the process up.   They have contributed where they can.

As to the patch team.   This game was released on three platforms simultaneously.   That means their are three different patches required.   Some things like the script fixes, texture fixes, etc mentioned above might be able to be easily integrated into all 3 builds.   However, issues like memory leaks, crashes, etc. are very likely platform dependant and very trickey to pin down.

The main thing you cannot expect is a QUICK FIX.   Honestly, you do not want a quick fix as quick fixes often break things that were previously working.

The patches will likely be released when they are ready.   Which is what we want.

What would be nice would be if there are any console commands we can run in the meantime as workarounds to reset scripts that failed, set plot flags, etc.    With those things we can "FIX" it with a workaround until they provide a patch that makes the workaround not needed.    A number of such workarounds have been posted.   We as a community are trying to help each other.

As to your "fanboy" statement.   Do you realize how poorly that makes you look?   Lot's of us are fan's of Bioware products and even with the bugs this game is pretty amazing.   I do not see many people disputing that.

So, I think many of us are fans.

When a person responds and you don't like their statement you say "fanboy" with the intention of using it as a derogatory statement.   Kind of like saying "you geek!"  or "You nerd!"

I don't think calling people fanboy is going to garner you any sympathy.   It also won't get you the help you need.   So, if your purpose is to alienate the people who come here and try to help (in a communal sense) then keep doing as you are doing.   Otherwise, heed my advice and drop the "fanboy" stuff.   Unless alienation is the intention it is a pretty poor thing to say when not applying it to yourself.

I can for example say "I am a fanboy" and it would be a true statement and I am not attacking, offending, or doing anything to another.  

CONSTRUCTIVE:
Likely tough tor track down:  Memory Leaks, Crashes, etc.
Likely easy to fix: Plot flags, script errors, etc.

WHAT DO I KNOW?:
I've worked on a couple projects with Bioware and worked closely with their live team that does patches, as well as their QA team, and Atari's QA team.   So, I have a little experience with fixing things and waiting for them to get consolidated by others and released.   The last thing I worked on with Bioware was the final patch for Neverwinter Nights 1.69.   We had a much smaller team working on that than I am certain they have working on Dragon Age.

Modifié par DevaWinblood, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:06 .

[enderandrew]

Bioware released patches for NWN years and years after the game's release. They released patches even though Atari was no longer paying for them. Bioware simply felt like paying for them out of their own pocket. And these weren't minor patches. Some of the patches contained more new content than the expansion packs.



And while I don't doubt others are having problems, as these threads suggest, the only problems I've seen are one typo, one minor bug and one small plot inconsistency. Arguably, it is the most stable I've seen of any PC game at launch in a long time.



If the issue is tied to a video driver (which I suspect it might be given that most of the people I've seen reporting the issue have said they're using Nvidia graphics) it is entirely possible that video driver wasn't released when Bioware did most of their testing. Video drivers change all the time. It is extremely common for PC games at launch to have issues with a recently released video driver, as both the code for a major game and the code for video drivers both change over time, without the two companies working together.



I think it would make a lot of sense if ATI and NVidia worked with major game shops, so they could test upcoming drivers with games in development.

[Woffen5]

dbmccart wrote...

flamingdts wrote...

enderandrew wrote...

Historically, Bioware has done a fantastic job patching and supporting their games. Bioware and Blizzard lead the industry in this regard.

Historically, EA has been terrible at paying staff to support and patch products. EA now owns Bioware sadly.

I'm honestly curious how that plays out.

Bioware, unfortunately, does not belong in the same page as Blizzard.

When it comes to supporting and patching their games, Valve and Blizzard are the best of them all. Valve releases free DLCs, and their games have little to no bugs when released. Blizzard and Valve are far far ahead when it comes to quality, because none of their games have suffered from issues that cause gameplay problems (such as the dex issue) on release. 
Please don't mention Blizzard in the forum I don't think many us are as fond of them as we were prior to the release of World of Warcraft. Well I suppose they still have Starcraft and Diablo until they need to exploit another one of their series for money.

Bioware releases quality products, but unfortunately, they're part of EA. Which means they will spend millions of dollars working on a very high quality product, but release it before checking for errors. Of course, that is at least better than the other crap that EA pulls off, since they won't spend time making a very high quality product in the first place.

If your going to talk about Blizzard do it elsewhere, no true PC Gamer is that fond of Blizzard anymore since they released the garbage that is World of Warcraft. Which ruined anychange of a Warcraft 4 they made sure of that much. To what end, they exploited a series that could have been much better so they could make more money.

True pc gamers? You mean you, your friend and that guy over there in the corner? Stop generalizing. You'll find that there are alot of true pc gamers out there that love playing world of warcraft. Besides, not everyone loves playing rts games. Personally I just played warcraft 3/tft for the story... and since when is making making world of warcraft in any way exploiting warcraft? Its a brilliant product, it adds tons and tons to the warcraft universe, provides endless hours of fun and has been doing so for four years. 

But yes, I would love to see a warcraft 4 at some point, but not to continue the storyline, but rather touch on the old lore. War of the ancients for example. 

Also, what the hell does this have to do with Dragon Age?

Modifié par Woffen5, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:10 .

[KristofCoulson]

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...
Yes, if you're one of those people who have major issues and you can't progress the game, that s*cks. But for now, please just put the game down and give Bioware a bit of time (a couple more weeks at most, I guess) to work out those issues and get the patches out. This game has the potential to still give you lots of fun for several years to come, so what's a few more weeks?

You know, I think this is one of the most sensible paragraphs that I have ever read on the internet.

[Woffen5]

Im already enjoying the game, next playthrough(after the next patch) will be even more enjoyable. See no reason to rush through the game. There is always the possibility to take a pause in playing the game until the patch is out if it bothers people so much.

We all want the patch to be out.. like.. now! But that aint gonna happen. Its done when its done.. I'd rather have a good patch than a rushed patch which might possibly add more issues than it fixes.