Aller au contenu

Photo

They're listening!


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
873 réponses à ce sujet

#776
Someone With Mass

Someone With Mass
  • Members
  • 38 552 messages

cannedcream wrote...

The ending was insulting and hurtful. Know I'm late to the party on this, but... I have never played a game before who's characters I learned to love and care about as deeply as in ME. The writing was beautiful, and ME3 had been the best yet...

But then that ending happened. And, I'm sorry, but EVERYTHING I did and worked for since the first game, it all felt like it was for nothing.

So, yes, if BW puts of a $10 better ending DLC, I'll buy it and curse their black souls the entire time, but it'll be worth it to give this series a proper ending.


Indeed, CC. I'll never feel a motivation to play ME3 like I did with ME2, unless they give us some kind of DLC.

If ME3 just had an ending that wasn't so lacking in closure and result, I'd gladly play it again.

Everything else in the game was just awesome, probably the most emoional moments in the entire trilogy with great character dialogues and conclusion to the different conflicts. Then those last fifteen minutes happened and undid all of that.

#777
leianajade

leianajade
  • Members
  • 253 messages
Guys, if you want anything positive to come out of this, you can't yell at Bioware, you can't make demands, and you have to be careful not to be seen as petulant, ungrateful people.

I guarantee that if you demand an apology and free DLC, you will get neither.

As crude as it is, yes, bioware is a business. They have our money. If we are seen as whiny brats, they're not going to be inclined to spend any more time and money on us. If, however, they understand that we love their products, and that we are not asking them to scrap everything, just to give us DLC with a choice the fans feel is more in line with the series - and that we're willing to pay for it - we have a better chance of them listening.

I think the root of the problem is not so much with the actual endings as that they don't fall in line with any of the stories we were telling with our Shepards. After a series built on our choices, these endings stripped us of all choices and tossed us into a box. It's legitimate to be upset, but it's how we act that will determine whether Bioware will want to work with us.

There is a group starting to form on facebook, and we want numbers. We want to approach Bioware respectfully and work with them to get what we're looking for. If you're on board with this, please join us. Spread the word. Social media is a powerful thing - it can topple governments, for crying out loud. We can certainly get Bioware's attention - but we want to make sure that attention is positive.

http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3

#778
Xstax

Xstax
  • Members
  • 2 messages
New ending... Shepard comes back from the dead to claim all the rounds of drinks he's owed!

#779
Tamcia

Tamcia
  • Members
  • 766 messages
I hope so. The ending made me so pissed that its not funny. It's like having a great day, and then someone throws poop into your face, steals all your property, burns it and returns the ashes covered with crap inside the skull of someone you loved. That's how I feel right now, after finishing the game.

HULK SMASH ME3 COPY

#780
mjh417

mjh417
  • Members
  • 595 messages
Im actually really and truly depressed. I feel like I could and should sue Bioware for emotional duress... that was a joke (BUT NOT REALLY). Staying up til 5am last night to finish the game because once I got to Thessia, I just couldn't put it down. The game was a masterpiece, the greatest gaming experience I've ever had. I thought the writers were geniuses, the way they were weaving everything together, giving me all the hard choices, making everything feel like it mattered, giving me truly emotional and heart breaking and heart warming moments with these characters I loved, making me relate to Shepard in ways I never had before... and then the final mission, those final moments, those final conversations... literally nothing had felt more perfect, nothing ever had me feeling like more was at stake, nothing had ever got me so caught up in it all... but then I reached "the catalyst" and everything just went so wrong and so quickly and it made no sense and it basically felt like some talentless hack with nothing but audience contempt came in and wrote those last few minutes just to undo everything that had been done. IT WAS A BETRAYAL. Shame on you Bioware.

ITs sad that I will pay anything for DLC that gives us an entirely different ending.

Pleas please pleas Bioware make this.

This time do it right. THat means make it so our choices MATTERED, you know the same way you wrote THE ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME!!!

RE-EXPLAIN!!! REWRITE!!!! RETHINK!!! Actually come up with a scenario and back story for The Reapers, the Cycle, the Catalyst, the Crucible, the Citadel that FITS the lore and core philosophy of what the series is about as it was first introduced in ME1 and then majorly built upon and expanded in ME2.

Remember the conversations with Legion???? The actual end of ME2. The conversations with Sovereign, Vigil, and Harbinger. Especially with all the brilliance and thought provoking material that came from Legion in ME2, it felt like the writers really understood what the series was about and what the Reapers were about. It actually still managed to feel that way through out ME3 until the final minutes.

Mass Effect should be about the Mass Effect tech and what that means for both organics ans synthetics. It was never about organics versus synthetics, except in the Geth/Quarian SUBPLOT because The Reapers are NOT simply machines, they are "sapient constructs." They exist as a way of perserving all organic life by synthesizing it in machine form and creating a single intelligence from "many minds" but those minds are organic. The huskification process is simply a more grim and brutal and less refined version of the process used to create and actual Reaper.

If the dilema is about Mass Effect tech, something that comes from the Reapers, that it is something that pertains to organic life just as much if not far more that synthetics. Organics war with other organics and they can just as easily destroy each other on their own. Just look at the Krogan Rebellions and Rachni War. Both of which came from using tech that was not built but found. This is what Mass Effect is actually about. "You evolve along the pathways we desire" as Sovereign says. Later Legion talks about the fundamental difference between the true Geth and the Heretics is that the true Geth reject the Old Machine's gifts and chose to find their own ways, "Geth must build their own future." THIS IS WHAT ME IS ABOUT!!!!! Organics and Geth or any AI, anything with intelligence ultimately face the same issue. The cycle exists because we ALL fall into the same trap, we use the tech of those left behind rather than develop our own. The Repars can harvest us because we evolved along the paths they designed for us. They are the reason there is a cycle.

The catalyst's explanations ring completely and VERY OBVIOUSLY false to everything except to him (or it) self. He even admits that Shep's mere presence proves he is wrong but his new solutions are EVEN WORSE and make no sense. They do destroy the Mass Relays, but it does so as it its some "after effect" a bizarre consequence, rather than the whole point. Even worse is that the way this happens, in both choices, essentially means an apocalypse for the galactic civilization we know in way that is FAR WORSE than if we waged the war with the reapers for another 400 years. Shep didn't save a dang thing. He ended the cycle (apparently) but all the popel he was fighting for are ven more doomed now than they were before he listened to some idiotic VI. Both choices are the same, whatever their difference is, its nonsensical, meaningless, dumb, and again WAY beyond the point of everything. Mass Effect is not about organic versus synthetics, it never was until the catalyst tried to tell me it was and even then I had so much ammunition to prove him wrong that it was just sad.

Seriously, how are The Reapers a solution to some inevitable annihilation of organics by synthetics? Does that make any sense??? Not only does it not make sense with everything that has ever been said of happened in the 3 games, but it doesn't make any sense on its own.

I know there have been countless cycles before this one, but lets look at this one closely. The only AI or synthetic threat ever presented (besides The Reapers themselves) is the Geth. The Geth were made by the Quarians over 300 years before the games begin. The first war with the Geth left the Quarians homeless but still alive and kicking. Through the rest of the cycle, before and after, not a SINGLE OTHER INTELLIGENT SPECIES WE KNOW OF EVER HAD A WAR WITH AI. But wait, it get even better. THE ONLY REASON THE GETH EVER REAPPEARED TO ORGANICS TO WAGE WAR WAS BECAUSE THE REAPERS ASKED THEM TO.

Now Javik says that The Protheans had their won war with machines, but from what I understood, the organics WON... end of story and that was before The Reapers came along to harvest them. SO same point as before applies, the Reapers dont save organics from destruction by synthetics. In fact its simply the opposite, the Reapers destroy advanced organics and harvest them into synthetic Reaper bodies.

So my point is this whole cycle organics vs. synthetics logic comes out of nowhere and makes no sense with everything before it. Mass Effect is not a carbon copy of the Battlestar Galactica reboot. I mean i felt like the ending was trying to pretend that that it was when really Mass Effect is a very different story about very different things (even if ME is BSG influenced, but its also Star Wars and Star Trek and Aliens influenced). In BSG the show had set its self up right from the very start as being about a cycle of never-ending conflict and new beginnings between creators and the created and so that end made sense, and unlike ME it actually was emotionally satisfying on most levels and gave the characters what they were deserved. ME3's end was anything but that.

Now The Catalyst also talks about cleansing older and more advanced civilizations to make room for new ones. This idea makes a lot more sense, but tis still flawed and full of holes and comes out of nowhere.

Now to me the Crucible itself is a fascinating idea with the exception of its use in the final few minutes. This is especially true if you agree with me on what Mass Effect is actually about philosophically, that its about developing and relying own your own tech versus inheriting and depending on discovered tech. You see as far as we know, The Crucible does not come from The Reapers, but its not of our own design either. It was inherited from The Protheans (hey remember how everyone used to think thats who built and left behind the Mass Relays and Citadel???) and then it turns out that they inherited from those who came before them and that its been slowly designed a little more and more each cycle. This is fascinating. What the Crucible is and what it does and should it be used and will it work and what will it actually happen if its used is a mystery that is very well established and developed and discussed through out the game. It fit so perfectly with what the series is about and it could and should have been the center piece of the end. It was... but it was als not. It wasn't really explained other than it "changed" the Catalyst and offered new solutions, solutions that were arguably easily worse than letting the cycle continue.

Now I know many were not fans of The Matrix sequels, I personally think they are lacking and even boring, as "movies" but in terms of continuing the philosophy and story established in the original (a fantastic and amazing film), the sequels really delivered. I think it should be obvious the similarities and parallells between ME and Matrix trilogy with regards to the events of ME3's ending and the climax of The Matrix Reloaded. The Catalyst is The Architect, Shep is Neo, The Crucible's link to the Citadel is The Source, and their meeting is an unexpected and mind bending twist to what both Shep and Neo assumed would be the end of their fight, organic life in a war with destructive machines and their ultimate victory. Now I could go on and on outlining all the ways these franchises are similar and how their different and so forth, what their philosophies mean and works about them, but thats not the point. The point is "choice" a word very key to both stories. In The Matrix Reloaded, Neo learns the truth about this war with the machines and is given a choice by the architect, he is not the first to be stand there and meet The Architect, in fact it is part of the cycle, but he is the first to be given a "choice," an anomaly resulting from The Oracle's introduction of a love interest for The One, a choice to instead of serving his predefined purpose to serve humanity by rebooting and continuing and beginning a new cycle, he can chose another door and not reboot the system at the consequence of The Machines destroying Zion and eventually the entire Matrix crashing effectively killing everyone. Neo makes that choice opening the door to doing something unknowable and unpredictable to The Architect and leads to the events of The Matrix Revolutions, and ultimately an ending in which Neo breaks the cycle by sacrificing himself and saving the Matrix, the machines, and liberating humanity.

Now in comparison, in ME3, Shep is the first to stand at this place on the Citadel, meet The Catalyst, and be given a choice. The problem is that these choices are silly and come from The Catalyst. There may be a choice, but it would be the same as if The Architect meet Neo and there was only one door as it had been in previous cycles. This is because its playing into the AI's games, playing by its rules, the hero doing something he or she doesn't understand cause the AI in charge told it to do so. Something that makes the entire journey irrelevant and foolish.

Now I dont think a fix ME3 ending should copy The Matrix sequels, at least not any more than it already does. See the main problem I have with the ME3 endings ultimately is that they are entirely emotionally unsatisfying and actually they are a full on F**k You to the player and Shepard and the entire galaxy. With the Mass Relays destroyed, and all the high level species of the Galaxy's military might now trapped on a ravaged Earth, all hope is lost and everyone is trapped. Everything Shep did to unite them and fix their problems, like the genophage, and inspire hope, was for nothing. Shep didn't save anyone. His sacrifice was for nothing. It ended the Reaper threat and the cycle but it destroyed the world of his present and doomed his entire civilization. And this all happened cause he listend to some VI, whom not only clearly did not have his best interests in mind, but also was wrong about everything it said. Neo called The Architect on his bull and in the end proved him wrong, its travesty that Shep didn't do the same.

#781
gothicslo

gothicslo
  • Members
  • 45 messages
My reaction on playing the game...demo :DDD, me3 OMG EPIC :DDDDDD, when i see that boy and the catalies O.O, what are the posibilities :/, normandy and my tali without me :,(

#782
Katsuya Kaiba

Katsuya Kaiba
  • Members
  • 60 messages

Xstax wrote...

New ending... Shepard comes back from the dead to claim all the rounds of drinks he's owed!


And dies from alchohol poisoning.

#783
chris fenton

chris fenton
  • Members
  • 569 messages

slyborg wrote...

Isn't it illegal to pay for a "happy ending" I'm just sayin'.


My reaction: :o:lol::happy::mellow::pinched: in that order

#784
CySR2

CySR2
  • Members
  • 21 messages

leianajade wrote...

Guys, if you want anything positive to come out of this, you can't yell at Bioware, you can't make demands, and you have to be careful not to be seen as petulant, ungrateful people.

I guarantee that if you demand an apology and free DLC, you will get neither.

As crude as it is, yes, bioware is a business. They have our money. If we are seen as whiny brats, they're not going to be inclined to spend any more time and money on us. If, however, they understand that we love their products, and that we are not asking them to scrap everything, just to give us DLC with a choice the fans feel is more in line with the series - and that we're willing to pay for it - we have a better chance of them listening.

I think the root of the problem is not so much with the actual endings as that they don't fall in line with any of the stories we were telling with our Shepards. After a series built on our choices, these endings stripped us of all choices and tossed us into a box. It's legitimate to be upset, but it's how we act that will determine whether Bioware will want to work with us.

There is a group starting to form on facebook, and we want numbers. We want to approach Bioware respectfully and work with them to get what we're looking for. If you're on board with this, please join us. Spread the word. Social media is a powerful thing - it can topple governments, for crying out loud. We can certainly get Bioware's attention - but we want to make sure that attention is positive.

http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3


Quoting this since it can get missed.

Mac Walter's twitter - @macwalterslives
Michael Gamble - @gamblemike

#785
Phydeaux314

Phydeaux314
  • Members
  • 1 400 messages
Apparently they ARE listening, per an update to Mr. Gamble's twitter. They're just not set to give comment yet.

Fair enough.

#786
Doronamo

Doronamo
  • Members
  • 53 messages

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Apparently they ARE listening, per an update to Mr. Gamble's twitter. They're just not set to give comment yet.

Fair enough.


And this is why I love Bioware.

#787
fyresai

fyresai
  • Members
  • 35 messages

zenoxis wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

zenoxis wrote...

You realize this is a long shot right?

It's more of a shot than we had before. And let's be honest - Bioware has a long-standing tradition of listening to fans when it comes to the Mass Effect series.


True...but I'd rather be pessimistic. That way I'll be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be what we're asking for. Besides, I was incredibly hopeful for Mass Effect 3 and that ending hurt me so much inside I was lying in my bed at 4am in the morning trying to sleep but I just couldn't because I hated it so much (I ended up not sleeping).


Yeah, that happened to me too. I was honestly in denial about it for a little bit there, couldn't believe that after the endings of the first two that I had just been basically flipped the bird and told nothing matters.

#788
Corane

Corane
  • Members
  • 6 messages
I just finished it myself and the resulting feeling is one of emptiness really, one of "Is that it?". All of the story and "investment" in the characters leads to that ending, which didn't bring any closure (for me at least). It just ended with those silly choices I am pretty sure I have seen in another game (but where they actually made sense.) Unfortunately I can see the closure I wish for coming along in DLC.

If I need to buy DLC to see the "true" ending of a game I have followed for many years now... well I won't be buying it, and I won't be buying another game developed by Bioware. I would, quite frankly, find it insulting that the final game in the trilogy wasn't complete storywise. Monetization at its finest with no respect for the people playing their games with the thought of "What happened to the Bioware I used to know?". ( And I'm not talking about DLC adding other parts to the story, I don't really have an issue with that, I'm talking about the main story arc not being finished here, thus making DLC essential in order to get some closure to the events and characters in the game.)

Even if this isn't the case, the ending, left as it is now, just pales in comparison to their previous games (bar the most recent... I see a pattern forming).

Modifié par Corane, 10 mars 2012 - 11:19 .


#789
Razorsteel

Razorsteel
  • Members
  • 137 messages
I just finished myself. I'll make this brief, the ending was lackluster.

#790
Darkieus

Darkieus
  • Members
  • 126 messages
The endings were terribad.

I can't believe I used the word 'terribad'.

#791
ziloe

ziloe
  • Members
  • 3 088 messages
bump

#792
noobcannon

noobcannon
  • Members
  • 1 654 messages
You think this has any merrit? These are some very good points and they are either valid or more plotholes.

http://www.neogaf.co...&postcount=1760

i never even realized he was in space without a helment. food for thought.

#793
archvonbaron

archvonbaron
  • Members
  • 102 messages
I can just see a patch coming out on April 1st with the real ending. :P

#794
sangy

sangy
  • Members
  • 662 messages

KainrycKarr wrote...

Aaaaaand here comes the $10 DLC for the "real" ending.

Sad part is....I'll buy it...


Sadly, me too.  Amen brother.Image IPB

#795
DarkSpider88

DarkSpider88
  • Members
  • 1 504 messages
Article on Efforts
http://www.gamefront...ffect-3-ending/

#796
Avina

Avina
  • Members
  • 51 messages
Looking forward to it.

~ Keelah Se'lai

#797
Deemz

Deemz
  • Members
  • 780 messages

KainrycKarr wrote...

Aaaaaand here comes the $10 DLC for the "real" ending.

Sad part is....I'll buy it...


I will give them another 59.99 for it.

#798
Sywen

Sywen
  • Members
  • 575 messages
I really hope they are listening, but I'm so bitter I don't think they will change anything.

#799
Rhayth

Rhayth
  • Members
  • 509 messages
I really don't feel like we should pay for it, but if they do release a new ending I would pay for it IF I HAD to. I still think it shouldn't be charged since are we're asking for is fixing mistakes in the most important part of the whole series, and giving us what you promised in the first place which was closure/answers.

#800
goose2989

goose2989
  • Members
  • 1 888 messages

KainrycKarr wrote...

Aaaaaand here comes the $10 DLC for the "real" ending.

Sad part is....I'll buy it...


Yup, I'd choke up more than $10 to see Tali and Shepard build their house on Rannoch. At the very least, give them a chance to be happily reunited