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[SLonergan]

Axelstall wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

SLonergan wrote...

I'll give you an example. Instead of the ending that Return of the Jedi had, when the Death Star 2.0 explodes, so does the galaxy. EVERYONE dies. The entire fleet is decimated. Everyone you've grown invested in is dead. Yeah, the Empire is gone, but it doesn't matter because everyone else is gone too. Then you see C-3PO on a planet with R2-D2, no one else around.

Credits.

Oh, and this takes place over the course of 2 minutes.

The point is, the ending directly contradicts the entire plot, You're there to SAVE humanity, not destroy the infrastructure of the Galaxy.

You, along with 95% of BSN, miss the theme of the series ENTIRELY. It is a DARK sci-fi trilogy, not a hollywood fairytale land like starwars. Ending on the note it did was exactly what I was expecting it to do. Sure...the game could use an added ending or 2 giving some glimmer of hope to those who can't comprehend grief, sorrow, and depression in a time of extinction...but saying that ALL the endings need to be scrapped and replaced would be a mockery to what the series stood for.

I don't think we're asking for that, as much as vary the endings so they at least seem like one can be a little nicer. 

It wasn't even the dark ending that pissed me off, it was the way it seemed like they went. 

"Ok so Shepard enters the Citadel and kills the elusive man, speaks with Anderson one last time and Boom, the kid from the beginning is now the evil mastermind and the three options he gives you are pretty much the same. "

It gave me the feeling like all my decisions were unmeaningful, killing the awesome feeling the games had given me before.

If a game about making meaningful decisions is making a player feel like their decisions didn't matter, then the designers have failed.

[chuckles471]

girres42 wrote...

Question: If you think that a silly ending can knock down its score by 20% then what games would you score a 9.5 out of 10?

Good ending 8-9 out of 10 still a bit dumbed down.

That monstrosity of a ending 5-6 out a 10.  I just don't like it, trying to be edgy and matrixey. 

[titusrsoooooo1337]

SLonergan wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

Look...we all have different tastes. I personally believe the ending, regardless of how little choice you had, was perfect. You, as well as many others, would disagree. Having your opinions is what defines us as different people...but trying to insist that you speak for everyone based on what YOU think is just plain retarded.

Don't call me retarded.

Second, even if you like the ending, which I respect, you have to recognize that it violates Mass Effect's core concept. That can't be denied. 

And I never said I was speaking for everyone. All I'm saying is that the fact that this game is getting universal praise from professional reviewers, and is being nearly universally panned by people who aren't on a payroll is ridiculous.

The reviews are misleading, and in the end, ME3 will be remembered as a near perfect game, which it's not.

I didn't call you retarded...I said the belief that someones opinion, no matter how much more of a majority it might have among a community, being stated as the RIGHT opinion (as a large portion of BSN is stating right now) is retarded. 

But, let me stop you on the note that you are saying the reviews are misleading. You ever stop to think that maybe some of the reviewers were sharing the same opinion I have? I certainly didn't agree with Mass Effect getting the praise it did, and to this day don't...doesn't mean I think their reviews are wrong. 

And on a final note...the endings cinematics may all share similar traits...but that does not mean they are anything alike. The endings are meant to be open and "cliff-hangerish" to challenge the player to use his/her imagination to decipher what they think happens after the cutscene ends. If you do that, and think about it good and well...you will clearly understand that none of the endings are anything alike (minus the cutscenes of course)

[SLonergan]

Thank you.

Here's what it boils down to.

Mass Effect has been about meaningful decisions from the beginning. It's about setting yourself apart and weaving your own destiny, and getting different outcomes as a result.

How is it, that two characters can go through the game without EVER making the same decision, and still get the same ending?

The decisions didn't matter.

[SLonergan]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

I didn't call you retarded...I said the belief that someones opinion, no matter how much more of a majority it might have among a community, being stated as the RIGHT opinion (as a large portion of BSN is stating right now) is retarded. 

But, let me stop you on the note that you are saying the reviews are misleading. You ever stop to think that maybe some of the reviewers were sharing the same opinion I have? I certainly didn't agree with Mass Effect getting the praise it did, and to this day don't...doesn't mean I think their reviews are wrong. 

And on a final note...the endings cinematics may all share similar traits...but that does not mean they are anything alike. The endings are meant to be open and "cliff-hangerish" to challenge the player to use his/her imagination to decipher what they think happens after the cutscene ends. If you do that, and think about it good and well...you will clearly understand that none of the endings are anything alike (minus the cutscenes of course)

Both IGN's and Gamespot's review make no mention of the endings being bad. They glaze right over it.

Also, the endings are definitely the same.

Ending 1) Red Fire destroys Reapers, humans on Earth die. Red Fire spreads through galaxy. Normandy is caught in Red Fire. Normandy crashes, and Joker steps out with another squad member.

Ending 2) Green Fire makes Reapers leave. Green Fire spreads through galaxy. Normandy is caught in Green Fire. Normandy Crashes, and cybery Joker steps out of the Normandy with another squad member.

Ending 3) Blue fire makes Reapers leave. Blue Fire spreads through galaxy. Normandy is caught in Blue Fire. Normandy Crashes, and Joker steps out of the Normandy with another squad member.

They even used the same cinematics...they just swapped the colors.

It's the same ending.

[titusrsoooooo1337]

SLonergan wrote...


How is it, that two characters can go through the game without EVER making the same decision, and still get the same ending?

The decisions didn't matter.

They may not make a difference in the ending cinematic, but they certainly are supposed to give the player a feeling of accomplishment post-end of the game. For instance: Choosing to save the geth, who have the reaper technology from being "indoctrinated" by the reapers, could rebuild the mass relays after the synthesis ending...giving hope to the galaxy. 

[titusrsoooooo1337]

SLonergan wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

I didn't call you retarded...I said the belief that someones opinion, no matter how much more of a majority it might have among a community, being stated as the RIGHT opinion (as a large portion of BSN is stating right now) is retarded. 

But, let me stop you on the note that you are saying the reviews are misleading. You ever stop to think that maybe some of the reviewers were sharing the same opinion I have? I certainly didn't agree with Mass Effect getting the praise it did, and to this day don't...doesn't mean I think their reviews are wrong. 

And on a final note...the endings cinematics may all share similar traits...but that does not mean they are anything alike. The endings are meant to be open and "cliff-hangerish" to challenge the player to use his/her imagination to decipher what they think happens after the cutscene ends. If you do that, and think about it good and well...you will clearly understand that none of the endings are anything alike (minus the cutscenes of course)

Both IGN's and Gamespot's review make no mention of the endings being bad. They glaze right over it.

Also, the endings are definitely the same.

Ending 1) Red Fire destroys Reapers, humans on Earth die. Red Fire spreads through galaxy. Normandy is caught in Red Fire. Normandy crashes, and Joker steps out with another squad member.

Ending 2) Green Fire makes Reapers leave. Green Fire spreads through galaxy. Normandy is caught in Green Fire. Normandy Crashes, and cybery Joker steps out of the Normandy with another squad member.

Ending 3) Blue fire makes Reapers leave. Blue Fire spreads through galaxy. Normandy is caught in Blue Fire. Normandy Crashes, and Joker steps out of the Normandy with another squad member.

They even used the same cinematics...they just swapped the colors.

It's the same ending.

You're missing the point. What happens in the cinematics may be almost identical, but the outcome of each ending will be entirely different in the years that happen post-ending. They leave it up to the player to imagine what each ending would yield for the galaxy after the reaper threat is gone.

[Warhawk7137]

I'm about 22 hours in, and I figure I'm about halfway there (and yes, I know the endings already, don't bother)..

And right now the game deserves a 10/10.  And most of that is because of the sad moments - Mordin, Thane, the conversation I just had with Garrus by the memorial.

I know a lot of people were complaining about Vent Boy after the demo, and I thought it was kinda cheesy too, but honestly, that's not representative of the rest of the game.  I don't think any game - and precious few films and books - have hit me as hard emotionally as ME3.

And I friggin' love it.

Art isn't about making you feel good.  Art is about making you feel.

[SLonergan]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

They may not make a difference in the ending cinematic, but they certainly are supposed to give the player a feeling of accomplishment post-end of the game. For instance: Choosing to save the geth, who have the reaper technology from being "indoctrinated" by the reapers, could rebuild the mass relays after the synthesis ending...giving hope to the galaxy. 

So why couldn't Bioware show me that? The ending would have been fine, if I had gotten some different stuff!

Show me the results of my actions, don't make me assume what happened. 

[SLonergan]

Warhawk7137 wrote...

I'm about 22 hours in, and I figure I'm about halfway there (and yes, I know the endings already, don't bother)..

And right now the game deserves a 10/10.  And most of that is because of the sad moments - Mordin, Thane, the conversation I just had with Garrus by the memorial.

I know a lot of people were complaining about Vent Boy after the demo, and I thought it was kinda cheesy too, but honestly, that's not representative of the rest of the game.  I don't think any game - and precious few films and books - have hit me as hard emotionally as ME3.

And I friggin' love it.

Art isn't about making you feel good.  Art is about making you feel.

And this game made me feel like I wasted my time. I did every single sidequest. If I had skipped them all, I would have gotten the same ending.

I'm not saying it's not art. It's just poorly executed. The first 99% of the game is so incredible. It's such a triumph. They built up to a potentially incredible ending. Then, they just threw it all away! Nothing mattered at all.

Bioware is a professional game development company. They literally COULD NOT have thought this was a good idea. Someone with too much power ****ed this up. They took the choice out of the player's hands. That's a violation of the core of this series. No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, and how much time you spend on the game, you get 3 choices, and they're the same choices everyone else gets, regardless of previous effort.

Red, Blue, or Green.

Modifié par SLonergan, 09 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[titusrsoooooo1337]

SLonergan wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

They may not make a difference in the ending cinematic, but they certainly are supposed to give the player a feeling of accomplishment post-end of the game. For instance: Choosing to save the geth, who have the reaper technology from being "indoctrinated" by the reapers, could rebuild the mass relays after the synthesis ending...giving hope to the galaxy. 

So why couldn't Bioware show me that? The ending would have been fine, if I had gotten some different stuff!

Show me the results of my actions, don't make me assume what happened. 

Because they want people to think for themselves. Imagination is a powerful thing, and allows us to make up our minds for ourselves rather than have someone else tell us what really happened. 

[GothamLord]

SLonergan wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

They may not make a difference in the ending cinematic, but they certainly are supposed to give the player a feeling of accomplishment post-end of the game. For instance: Choosing to save the geth, who have the reaper technology from being "indoctrinated" by the reapers, could rebuild the mass relays after the synthesis ending...giving hope to the galaxy. 

So why couldn't Bioware show me that? The ending would have been fine, if I had gotten some different stuff!

Show me the results of my actions, don't make me assume what happened. 

No Kidding.   100+ hours of gameplay over the course of three games and we get a ending cutscene thats only 2 minutes at best that doesnt answer anything and leaves nearly everything up in the air?  I call bull****.

[SLonergan]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

Because they want people to think for themselves. Imagination is a powerful thing, and allows us to make up our minds for ourselves rather than have someone else tell us what really happened. 

I don't buy it for a second. I'm not anti-imagination, but this is cheap. They made one cutscene, and swapped colors. That is just laziness. It's lazy design, and it's a cop-out. They are relying on people like you to spew BS like "use your imagination", and you're playing into their hand. 

You're justifying something that you should be against. This isn't an ending open to interpretation, it's just a cheap carbon-copy ending.

[titusrsoooooo1337]

SLonergan wrote...

You're justifying something that you should be against. This isn't an ending open to interpretation, it's just a cheap carbon-copy ending.

And there you go again telling me what I should or shouldn't think based on what your interpretation is. If you people really can't live with the fact that not everything is going to end without some mystery, then you are soarly mistaken.

[HTTP 404]

SLonergan wrote...

How can a game that absolutely ruined itself, and it's predecessors POSSIBLY have a 95 on Metacritic?

This is absolute proof that the system is broken. IGN gives it a 9.5/10? I guess Jessica Chobot's poorly acted and useless character did Bioware some good then.

This is disgusting. 

I don't think I played the same game as you

[Lavans6879]

 I love the Mass Effect series, I really do...but being completely honest here, the level of interaction presented between the player and NPCs of the game feels like I'm wearing blinders by comparison to the first two games. The level of interaction makes the progress of the game feel far too linear. Game play wise, ME3 is definitely the best of the series, but not the story telling ( even when excluding the endings )...not by a long shot.
Aside from the lacking interaction between characters, there was also lacking scope in the previous games' stories and key points as well. The best example I can give is the one I was personally hoping for the most - the Collector base. I honestly feel like BioWare completely forgot to give better insight as to what happened at the Collector base, the actual construction process of a reaper ( such as if the liquefied mass is used for the actual frame of the reaper ), and how much of the harvested individuals' minds or memories are left intact. The only reason why we know that the minds of the harvested people are uploaded is because of a hidden dialog in ME2, but how much of their minds are intact is left in question. I was at least expecting there to be some codex entry...but no, left completely hanging. My hopes rose a little as I saw the wreckage of the human-reaper in the cerberus base, but that was trampled upon the realization there was no documents or vid logs on it. Yet the events at the collector base was the most contraversial subject of Mass Effect 2...

In short, I'm just really urked, and disappointed in having spent $80 on the N7 Edition...weak story progress, lacking character interaction, lacking clarification, too reliant on the ME books, and the lack of a proper ending. Hands down, ME2 was the best of the series. With how ME3 ended, I must say that ME1 came in second.

[SLonergan]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

And there you go again telling me what I should or shouldn't think based on what your interpretation is. If you people really can't live with the fact that not everything is going to end without some mystery, then you are soarly mistaken.

Fine, let me rephrase that.

I can't believe that you think that 3 carbon-copy ending cinematics are an acceptable substitution for real diverstiy in endings.

I can't believe that you are supporting such lazy design, just because it is possible to fill in the blanks with your imagination.

I am almost positive that you will regret your words if all games start to demonstrate the lazy design that Bioware has.

And I believe that the only reason you are okay with this, is because it's Mass Effect 3.

Also, once again, I'm not against mystery. I'm against shoddy-execution, and I'm against taking choice out of the hands of players who have spent hundreds of dollars on a franchise that is all about choice.

Modifié par SLonergan, 09 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[titusrsoooooo1337]

SLonergan wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

And there you go again telling me what I should or shouldn't think based on what your interpretation is. If you people really can't live with the fact that not everything is going to end without some mystery, then you are soarly mistaken.

Fine, let me rephrase that.

I can't believe that you think that 3 carbon-copy ending cinematics are an acceptable substitution for real diverstiy in endings.

I can't believe that you are supporting such lazy design, just because it is possible to fill in the blanks with your imagination.

I am almost positive that you will regret your words if all games start to demonstrate the lazy design that Bioware has.

And I believe that the only reason you are okay with this, is because it's Mass Effect 3.

not to be that guy...but there's hardly a game developer out there that puts out anything close to what bioware does...even if you think mass effect 3 was an abomination. If you think bioware games are becoming s***, then I can't even imagine what the rest of the gaming world must look like.

[SLonergan]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

not to be that guy...but there's hardly a game developer out there that puts out anything close to what bioware does...even if you think mass effect 3 was an abomination. If you think bioware games are becoming s***, then I can't even imagine what the rest of the gaming world must look like.

I don't think Bioware games are becoming ****. I don't even think Mass Effect 3 was a bad game throughout. I even think that if Bioware rectified this with free DLC, Mass Effect 3 would absolutely deserve the 95 score that it currently has.

The rest of the gaming landscape is actually pretty great. Games with actual endings exist. Mass Effect 1 and 2 for example, are great games (though the ending of ME3 has ruined those for me).

I just got done playing Uncharted Golden Abyss. Great game. There's some problems, but I'd give it a 7.5-8. The ending left some stuff up to interpretation, but there was still a resolution to the story. 

[Zanallen]

The game isn't bad just because you guys didn't get a super happy growing old with half-alien babies ending.

[GothamLord]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

SLonergan wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

And there you go again telling me what I should or shouldn't think based on what your interpretation is. If you people really can't live with the fact that not everything is going to end without some mystery, then you are soarly mistaken.

Fine, let me rephrase that.

I can't believe that you think that 3 carbon-copy ending cinematics are an acceptable substitution for real diverstiy in endings.

I can't believe that you are supporting such lazy design, just because it is possible to fill in the blanks with your imagination.

I am almost positive that you will regret your words if all games start to demonstrate the lazy design that Bioware has.

And I believe that the only reason you are okay with this, is because it's Mass Effect 3.

not to be that guy...but there's hardly a game developer out there that puts out anything close to what bioware does...even if you think mass effect 3 was an abomination. If you think bioware games are becoming s***, then I can't even imagine what the rest of the gaming world must look like.

What have I got besides Mass Effect 3 recently......Uncharted 3.....  before that .....*scratches head*   Red Dead Redemption....Before that....I think it was Mass Effect 2.    Yeah  I know that *I* generally think the gaming world is mindless tripe.  I know I'll likely get lynched for saying I hated Dragon Age: Origins.  Never bothered with DA2.   I dont do MMOs so I'm not going to be dealing with Old Republic.

[SLonergan]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

not to be that guy...but there's hardly a game developer out there that puts out anything close to what bioware does...even if you think mass effect 3 was an abomination. If you think bioware games are becoming s***, then I can't even imagine what the rest of the gaming world must look like.

And also, this right here is why I question the integrity of your review of ME3. You are basically saying that because it's Bioware, it's great. Bioware can do wrong. 

[HTTP 404]

SLonergan wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

not to be that guy...but there's hardly a game developer out there that puts out anything close to what bioware does...even if you think mass effect 3 was an abomination. If you think bioware games are becoming s***, then I can't even imagine what the rest of the gaming world must look like.

And also, this right here is why I question the integrity of your review of ME3. You are basically saying that because it's Bioware, it's great. Bioware can do wrong. 

give us examples of recent games you think are amazing.  I don't mean it sarcastically. 

Modifié par HTTP 404, 09 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[SLonergan]

HTTP 404 wrote...

give us examples of recent games you think are amazing.  I don't mean it sarcastically. 

How recent do you want? Give me a minimum year, and I'll give you a list

[Hellknites]

They could have at least added one nice little ending where Shepard and his companions are all reunited. Yeah its fairy tale happy ending but **** it, I didn't spend three games building relationships and a reason to care and get invested about the game series just so I can see three flavors of a bad ending, with a slight tinge of paragon, neutral or renegade being the only difference between the three.
Players worked hard to get the best ending in ME2 in order to ensure that you and all your squadmates live. You work hard to try and get your total EMS level at its highest and you still have to watch a grim ending where shep and his/her LI die alone.