39 réponses à ce sujet

[CrazyCatDude]

I've been following the conversations you're having on twitter regarding the endings, and I'm posting here because my thoughts are too long for a twitter post.

It took me roughly 30 hours of play time to beat Mass Effect 3 for the first time.  For roughly 29 hours and 55 minutes, I was experiencing one of the most brilliantly written and enjoyable pieces of art I've ever seen.  There were so many moments in the game that just felt like a kick in the gut.  "Had to be me.  Someone else might have gotten it wrong."  "His wish was for you."  "I know Tali, but thank you.  Keelah Sa'lai."  "You did good child.  You did good.  I'm proud of you."  "I ah... what do you need me to do."  I'm not usually all that emotional watching a movie or playing a game, but this one reduced me to tears so many times I lost count.

Then the platform floats up, and we meet the catalyst, and the catalyst presents us with three options.  The Catalyst starts going on and on about how the created will always kill the creator.  The most critical moment in the game, and yet, there's no option to jerk that kid up by his holographic hair and say, "Bulls***!  Look out there.  Geth and Quarian, fighting side by side.  Look at the Normandy, look at Joker and EDI.  We're making it work.  Maybe it will last, maybe it won't, but who the f*** are you deny us the chance to try?"

Maybe we can talk the Catalyst into destroying the Reapers, or deactiviting them, and maybe we can't.  Maybe we have to order the Normandy to destroy the Catalyst by doing a suicide run on the Crucible.

If you wanted your players to be satisfied with your endings, you should have given them the option to find their own path, rather than simply submit to the paths offered.  That's where the endings go wrong.

Though I will admit, I really did want the "Little blue babies" ending.

[Razgriz9327]

First and foremost, I feel that I need to give Bioware credit for making an incredible game. No matter what I feel about the endings, I loved the main game, and have never been so emotionally invested in a story. I was crying like a baby many times during the game, and I am not someone who usually gets emotional. But the ending fails to take into account any of our past decisions. I am not even remotely invested in the ending, since there is no way for me to make a decision consistent with my shep... My shep would have no problem destroying the relays to defeat the reapers, but destroying EDI and the Geth? Invalidates all my decisions suggesting the AI is worth the same as humanity. Sacrificing himself to control the Reapers? sure! but I have to agree that this is not what we were expecting from a series that despite minor missteps, has given us more diverse choices that anything i have experienced.

[DarK4ikeN]

It's true. Endings disgusting. Some deaths are absurd, because Mass Effect was always possible to avoid the death of the characters, except for Kaidan or Ashley. I went through the whole game in one breath, admired her, and finally got "it." Who came up with such an end for the entire series?

I sincerely hope that there will be some DLC, which will include a worthy ending of the series, so that everyone can get exactly what he expected from the entire series, rather than what we ended up with.

I apologize for my awful English. I write for the first time in the English-speaking forum. I hope Bioware listen to players from all over the world and fix the game. Spasibo.

Modifié par DarK4ikeN, 09 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[AmaraDark]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

I've been following the conversations you're having on twitter regarding the endings, and I'm posting here because my thoughts are too long for a twitter post.

It took me roughly 30 hours of play time to beat Mass Effect 3 for the first time.  For roughly 29 hours and 55 minutes, I was experiencing one of the most brilliantly written and enjoyable pieces of art I've ever seen.  There were so many moments in the game that just felt like a kick in the gut.  "Had to be me.  Someone else might have gotten it wrong."  "His wish was for you."  "I know Tali, but thank you.  Keelah Sa'lai."  "You did good child.  You did good.  I'm proud of you."  "I ah... what do you need me to do."  I'm not usually all that emotional watching a movie or playing a game, but this one reduced me to tears so many times I lost count.

Then the platform floats up, and we meet the catalyst, and the catalyst presents us with three options.  The Catalyst starts going on and on about how the created will always kill the creator.  The most critical moment in the game, and yet, there's no option to jerk that kid up by his holographic hair and say, "Bulls***!  Look out there.  Geth and Quarian, fighting side by side.  Look at the Normandy, look at Joker and EDI.  We're making it work.  Maybe it will last, maybe it won't, but who the f*** are you deny us the chance to try?"

Maybe we can talk the Catalyst into destroying the Reapers, or deactiviting them, and maybe we can't.  Maybe we have to order the Normandy to destroy the Catalyst by doing a suicide run on the Crucible.

If you wanted your players to be satisfied with your endings, you should have given them the option to find their own path, rather than simply submit to the paths offered.  That's where the endings go wrong.

Though I will admit, I really did want the "Little blue babies" ending.

This to a tee. Except with little adopted turian babies.

[ForgottenWarrior]

It reminds me original Fallout 3. Original - without any dlc. As you can remember, sacrifice was the only ending. I thought that all rpg-devs already learn this lesson - sacrifice as the only option is a bad idea. Well, bethesda learned this lesson very quick and i hope BW do the same eventually.

I apologize for my awful English too))

[Qutayba]

I think the fact that the storytelling was so good throughout makes the ending really stick out as unsatisfying. It's actually taken me a whole day to process it, and trying to give it the benefit of the doubt, but the more I think about it, the more it bugs me. And it's really JUST the conversation with the Catalyst. Shepard could tear its arguments to shreds. But instead, in all three endings, he submits to the logic of the villains.

[Storenumber9]

Along with what most people said in here, I pretty much agree.

I'm also going to add to the pigeonholed ending argument with the fact that we had no closure of the characters, no epilogue or anything to tell us what happened after, or even a hint of what could come after. (Unless you count the Stargazer scene, in which case, no. I am totally against that being in the game along with my squad being stranded.)

But again, just for the sake of things, ME3 is a good game, for 29 hours 55 minutes. The last 5 minutes is what kills it. I think that's why fans are so pissed right now, it's because for the most part, we love the game. It's just that last part.

[Dreogan]

Let's not forget the fact that the ending, no matter what you pick, is essentially the same with a variation in color or maybe an overlay if you go all fancy with the synthesis option.

[Kronner]

Dreogan wrote...

Let's not forget the fact that the ending, no matter what you pick, is essentially the same with a variation in color or maybe an overlay if you go all fancy with the synthesis option.

I disagree. While all endings share some things (Mass Relays destroyed), there are still significant differences.

Control - Shepard sacrifices himself/herself to become the Guardian, therefore leaving the galaxy in *the same state* as it was in the beginning of ME1 (i.e. organics and synthetics will always fight each other).

Destroy - All advanced AI/synthetics are destroyed = organics win. Shepard lives.

Synthesis - Shepard sacrifices himself/herself to combine organics and synthetics into one, therefore eliminating the possibility of war between them.

In all cases, Mass Relays are destroyed, and that is only a good thing. It finally gives a chance to evolve naturally to all species in the galaxy (i.e. not before they are ready). Mass Effect was always about the conflict between synthetics and organics. The only thing that pisses me off is the Normandy crash part because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Modifié par Kronner, 09 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[Adanu]

I agree totally with this post. The endings just DO. NOT. MAKE. SENSE.

Mass relays blown up? Fine. I can even get on board with the Citadel blowing up, but telling me my choices will matter then basically sucker punching me with that Normandy crash with my Shepards LI... No, just no.

It's fallout 3 all over again. Get your acts together and FIX IT if you want me to care about DA3.

[Cody211282]

After looking over his twitter feed and stumbling onto this little gem I think he ether just doesn't get it or just doesn't care.

"so you mean there wasn't a happy ending. You mean that there wasn't enough variety in the endings in terms of large outcome"

If he is so blind as to why the endings are hated by almost everyone then I don't see any hope in them ever getting them right.

[Seanabhainn]

Cody211282 wrote...

After looking over his twitter feed and stumbling onto this little gem I think he ether just doesn't get it or just doesn't care.

"so you mean there wasn't a happy ending. You mean that there wasn't enough variety in the endings in terms of large outcome"

If he is so blind as to why the endings are hated by almost everyone then I don't see any hope in them ever getting them right.

I definitely get the "not caring" impression.

[SonicAF]

Kronner wrote...
I disagree. While <...>. The only thing that pisses me off is the Normandy crash part because it makes no sense whatsoever.

A strong opinion. But what about providing MOAR options huh? I want to destroy those reapers and risk the entire galaxy. I want to see if Geth and Quarians can live at one world. I want to see if Krogan rebel again. I want to see if Rachni find a place to live after all. I want to save the interspecies society as it was even if it may lead to complete organic annihilation.

But I have no right to risk this way, just no choise and no hope. No paragons and renegades anymore. Either Shepard or synthetics die. Oh yes and relays are destoryed regardless of what I wanna do.

Modifié par SonicAF, 09 mars 2012 - 11:10 .

[Phydeaux314]

Remember, twitter is a... bad way to convey complicated thoughts and opinions. Especially with worn out producers who've had a really rough day at 1:00AM in the morning, which is when his last post timestamps from.

My advice is to give things a day or two, maybe come back on Monday if we don't hear anything by Friday afternoon. Remember, the team has just finished pushing out a huge project out the door, and if their development cycle is anything like other game studios, most of the team will probably be sleeping in until mid-afternoon unless something goes catastrophically wrong.

[Dreogan]

Kronner wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

Let's not forget the fact that the ending, no matter what you pick, is essentially the same with a variation in color or maybe an overlay if you go all fancy with the synthesis option.

I disagree. While all endings share some things (Mass Relays destroyed), there are still significant differences.

Control - Shepard sacrifices himself/herself to become the Guardian, therefore leaving the galaxy in *the same state* as it was in the beginning of ME1 (i.e. organics and synthetics will always fight each other).

Destroy - All advanced AI/synthetics are destroyed = organics win. Shepard lives.

Synthesis - Shepard sacrifices himself/herself to combine organics and synthetics into one, therefore eliminating the possibility of war between them.

In all cases, Mass Relays are destroyed, and that is only a good thing. It finally gives a chance to evolve naturally to all species in the galaxy (i.e. not before they are ready). Mass Effect was always about the conflict between synthetics and organics. The only thing that pisses me off is the Normandy crash part because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Oh, I agree with you in the sense that the "text" changes. What doesn't really change, and what infuratates me just because of the sheer laziness of it, is the actual assets don't really change all that much. They simply swap out a five-second cutscene with another depending on the one choice you make. As a trilogy-ender, this is unacceptable.

Modifié par Dreogan, 09 mars 2012 - 11:20 .

[SonicAF]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Remember, twitter is a... bad way to convey complicated thoughts and opinions. Especially with worn out producers who've had a really rough day at 1:00AM in the morning, which is when his last post timestamps from.

My advice is to give things a day or two, maybe come back on Monday if we don't hear anything by Friday afternoon. Remember, the team has just finished pushing out a huge project out the door, and if their development cycle is anything like other game studios, most of the team will probably be sleeping in until mid-afternoon unless something goes catastrophically wrong.

It has already gone catastrophically wrong. The entire series is killed by accident. They are still able to reanimate this. I do not trust that they will but I hope.

Modifié par SonicAF, 09 mars 2012 - 11:20 .

[hismastersvoice]

Phydeaux314 wrote...
My advice is to give things a day or two, maybe come back on Monday if we don't hear anything by Friday afternoon. Remember, the team has just finished pushing out a huge project out the door, and if their development cycle is anything like other game studios, most of the team will probably be sleeping in until mid-afternoon unless something goes catastrophically wrong.

The team apparently had time and resources to make From Ashes since the game started the certification process, or at least that's what they're telling us. It's PC exclusive devs that work till the last moment (because they can)

[Qutayba]

They are interested in what we have to say. I think a rewritten ending is a bit of a long-shot, though (although it certainly wouldn't even cost them as much as a small DLC to make). But let's be fair and give them some time. It will take a while for the devs to sift through all the rage posts (I'd ignore those, too, to be honest) to get to the more rational critiques.

[CrazyCatDude]

Seanabhainn wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

After looking over his twitter feed and stumbling onto this little gem I think he ether just doesn't get it or just doesn't care.

"so you mean there wasn't a happy ending. You mean that there wasn't enough variety in the endings in terms of large outcome"

If he is so blind as to why the endings are hated by almost everyone then I don't see any hope in them ever getting them right.

I definitely get the "not caring" impression.

I just want to be clear.  I don't get that impression at all.  I think they do care.  I also realize that any real response from the producers and writing staff would have to be considered within the company, agreed upon, passed through corportate and through legal and then released.

They aren't geth guys.  They do not build consensus at the speed of light.

[Arokel]

Wait. You got the Geth and Quarian to fight together?

Edit: Wait.  Shepard lives in the Destroy ending?  It looked like he went down with the Citadel.

Modifié par Arokel, 09 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[Gowienczyk]

Dreogan wrote...

In all cases, Mass Relays are destroyed, and that is only a good thing. It finally gives a chance to evolve naturally to all species in the galaxy (i.e. not before they are ready). Mass Effect was always about the conflict between synthetics and organics. The only thing that pisses me off is the Normandy crash part because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Have we all forgotten ARRIVAL where it was stated when mass relay's explode they make the system they are in go nova (aka not exist anymore)?

[n3koshi]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

The most critical moment in the game, and yet, there's no option to jerk that kid up by his holographic hair and say, "Bulls***!  Look out there.  Geth and Quarian, fighting side by side.  Look at the Normandy, look at Joker and EDI.  We're making it work.  Maybe it will last, maybe it won't, but who the f*** are you deny us the chance to try?"

To quote Mordin, [blink], "Yes." [blink]

Unfortunately, I don't even get a babies option, being a Talimancer...lol

[GracefulChicken]

I agree 100%. The game is amazing, the franchise is my favourite of all time, and the whole story is one I've really embraced, which is a very very rare thing for me in any type of media. I used the Mass Effect story (specifically Shep) as motivation when my mother got diagnosed with cancer, I used it for inspiration when my father had a stroke, and Iooked forward to every moment playing the series. It had an incredible impact on me (admittedly more than a game should have), which makes it all the more of a kick in the quad when I see how the endings totally decimated EVERYTHING the entire series has done. I'm fine with an ending I don't agree with. But an ending to a critically acclaimed series (and multi-million dollar project) that totally undoes any feeling of satisfaction, and undoes everything most people worked 6+ years to see is a real shame in my eyes. I've no problem with DLC, I never have, and I would happily pay more than usual for a DLC that retcons this horrible mistake somehow.

I mean, just the fact that someone was in charge and went "Yep, millions of dollars, millions of fans, and hours and hours of my own personal investment... yeah, that ending will do" is a real head-scratcher, and one that really struck a sour note in me.

[n3koshi]

Arokel wrote...

Wait. You got the Geth and Quarian to fight together?

Edit: Wait.  Shepard lives in the Destroy ending?  It looked like he went down with the Citadel.

Geth and Quarians I can vouch for, did that.

You have to have an EMS of 4k+ and enough Par/Ren for all of the convo wheel options with the IM, or an EMS of 5k to get the Shepard lives ending 
(or at least this is what I've seen reported in other threads)  .

Modifié par n3koshi, 09 mars 2012 - 04:09 .