14 réponses à ce sujet

[lasertank]

This game has been totally screwed up by the very limited scale of the final battle. Unless BIOWARE can rewrite the whole final chapter, the game is basically hopeless. Please remember all decisions and choices you made in ME 1,2 and 3 all come to this battle. The effective military value? I don't that's a satisfying result for all what I've done. I saved Krogan/Rachni species and I wonder where they are in the final battle. My squadmate are fighting on earth but I can only know that through phone-call? I want all of them to fight with me side-by-side! Do you really think a simple happy ending can resolve all the expectation and the disappointment?

[Phydeaux314]

I don't think it's entirely necessary. Remember, the final battle in the collector vessel was pretty much identical no matter what you did. You had several places where you could lose people for making bad calls, and then you had a giant loyalty test at the very end of the game that effectively summed up a stats and then killed the appropriate number of people off. If everyone died, you got a nonstandard game over.

And while I thought that was an excellent mechanic, I don't think it's entirely fitting for ME3's final battle, which is on such a vast scale, that the actions of individuals alone probably isn't going to swing things. If they wanted to implement a system where people got killed off based on your galactic readiness was - blown up going to the ruins of the citadel by falling debris from a destroyed Turian cruiser, nuked by a destroyer that the missing air raid couldn't knock out, etc. - I would be okay with that.

[lasertank]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

I don't think it's entirely necessary. Remember, the final battle in the collector vessel was pretty much identical no matter what you did. You had several places where you could lose people for making bad calls, and then you had a giant loyalty test at the very end of the game that effectively summed up a stats and then killed the appropriate number of people off. If everyone died, you got a nonstandard game over.

And while I thought that was an excellent mechanic, I don't think it's entirely fitting for ME3's final battle, which is on such a vast scale, that the actions of individuals alone probably isn't going to swing things. If they wanted to implement a system where people got killed off based on your galactic readiness was - blown up going to the ruins of the citadel by falling debris from a destroyed Turian cruiser, nuked by a destroyer that the missing air raid couldn't knock out, etc. - I would be okay with that.

That's exactly what I mean. I want decisions I made can lead to something during the battle. Not for all the decisions but at least for those "HUGE" decision such as saving rachni or krogan.  But the current story all those decision seem to be pointless.

Modifié par lasertank, 09 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[Hexxys]

I don't really know, and it's not my job to know. My job is to pay for the games and emotionally invest in the characters and story. It's Bioware's job to not drop the ball with either.

[Phydeaux314]

I would loved to have seen a ME2-esque tiered response system to dealing with the reapers while invading earth.

"Do you have enough ships to win the opening salvo? Yes? Okay, move on with the plan. No? You lose critical forces, and you're forced to adapt at the cost of things going wrong down the line."

Have enough things go wrong, and you simply can't pull off the plan.

[Kronner]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

I would loved to have seen a ME2-esque tiered response system to dealing with the reapers while invading earth.

"Do you have enough ships to win the opening salvo? Yes? Okay, move on with the plan. No? You lose critical forces, and you're forced to adapt at the cost of things going wrong down the line."

Have enough things go wrong, and you simply can't pull off the plan.

It made sense in ME2, because you were the leader of the team during the SM.
In ME3, Shepard is not the highest ranking military officier. He's not in charge.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Kronner wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

I would loved to have seen a ME2-esque tiered response system to dealing with the reapers while invading earth.

"Do you have enough ships to win the opening salvo? Yes? Okay, move on with the plan. No? You lose critical forces, and you're forced to adapt at the cost of things going wrong down the line."

Have enough things go wrong, and you simply can't pull off the plan.

It made sense in ME2, because you were the leader of the team during the SM.
In ME3, Shepard is not the highest ranking military officier. He's not in charge.

He doesn't need to be. We we have to do is see the consequences of Shepard's past actions/choices. Hackett could make the calls, or whatever. All we have to have happen is SEE the results.

[Cody211282]

Kronner wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

I would loved to have seen a ME2-esque tiered response system to dealing with the reapers while invading earth.

"Do you have enough ships to win the opening salvo? Yes? Okay, move on with the plan. No? You lose critical forces, and you're forced to adapt at the cost of things going wrong down the line."

Have enough things go wrong, and you simply can't pull off the plan.

It made sense in ME2, because you were the leader of the team during the SM.
In ME3, Shepard is not the highest ranking military officier. He's not in charge.

That's no the point. It would be easy for the comands to come from Hacket and have the battle play out with shep doing what he has to because of the choises you made.

[Kronner]

Cody211282 wrote...

That's no the point. It would be easy for the comands to come from Hacket and have the battle play out with shep doing what he has to because of the choises you made.

SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...

He doesn't need to be. We we have to do is see the consequences of Shepard's past actions/choices. Hackett could make the calls, or whatever. All we have to have happen is SEE the results. 

 

A good point. This would be really cool.

Modifié par Kronner, 09 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[lasertank]

If BIOWARE rewrite the whole final chapter and the things above happen, I would buy it. Though it's impossible I guess.

[Cody211282]

Kronner wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

That's no the point. It would be easy for the comands to come from Hacket and have the battle play out with shep doing what he has to because of the choises you made.

SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...

He doesn't need to be. We we have to do is see the consequences of Shepard's past actions/choices. Hackett could make the calls, or whatever. All we have to have happen is SEE the results. 

 

A good point. This would be really cool.

That is what most people were expecting. In the end it made no real diffrence what you did in the game.

[Dark Specie]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

I would loved to have seen a ME2-esque tiered response system to dealing with the reapers while invading earth.

"Do you have enough ships to win the opening salvo? Yes? Okay, move on with the plan. No? You lose critical forces, and you're forced to adapt at the cost of things going wrong down the line."

Have enough things go wrong, and you simply can't pull off the plan.

So would I...

One of the great things about ME2 is that it takes a lot of work to ensure that everyone pulls though the Suicide Mission alive, but it left you with a sense of accomplishment to have done so. Not so much with ME3...

As for why an alternative ending(s) would save ME3 - Everyone thinks ME3 does great... Up until the endings, so why wouldn't they?

Modifié par Dark Specie, 09 mars 2012 - 12:17 .

[Elishiaila]

I see how unhappy people are with current endings. And I share the same concern, and I see why your points are important. But to make any change we would need three things.

• DLC proposals that can realisticaly make the game better. We probably won't see the entire chapter rewritten, but DLCs to expand options are possible. I tried to make a such proposal. I hope many others have done the same.
• We should try to support said proposals, discuss them, refine them, and turn them into "crowd sourced" stories that can be easily turned to DLCs.
• Keep them visible.

If we all open many threads about why and how we want an alternate ending, any thread that shows how to implement it would be lost, burried deep under a pile of "I am unhappy threads".

Heck, if Bioware would be able to release "toolset" and allow user created mods to the game, and help with creating crowd sourced endings, crowd sourced side missions, etc. we would see an even better chance. If we show people can stand together behind some proposed ideas for endings.

[lasertank]

Dark Specie wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

I would loved to have seen a ME2-esque tiered response system to dealing with the reapers while invading earth.

"Do you have enough ships to win the opening salvo? Yes? Okay, move on with the plan. No? You lose critical forces, and you're forced to adapt at the cost of things going wrong down the line."

Have enough things go wrong, and you simply can't pull off the plan.

So would I...

One of the great things about ME2 is that it takes a lot of work to ensure that everyone pulls though the Suicide Mission alive, but it left you with a sense of accomplishment to have done so. Not so much with ME3...

As for why an alternative ending(s) would save ME3 - Everyone thinks ME3 does great... Up until the endings, so why wouldn't they?

That depends on what do you refer by "the ending."

For me, "the ending" refers to the whole final chapter, which starts from the counter-attack of the allied fleet till the end. The story can not get any better without rewriting the whole action.  The final battle should be thrilling, moving, and touching. At least it should deliver the same emotion satisfaction as ME1. 
Changing (or adding) options in the final scene does not really mean anything.

[Pamine]

They could have done a decent job with the ending by just redoing the stuff after you go up to the citadel. But I agree that to do a good job, they should have made the whole final chapter better. It would have been a lot more satisfying to see all the important characters doing their parts, just like when they showed the group that was attacking the final guardian from the side buildings.