Aller au contenu

Photo

Help me understand the Endings (No bashing please).


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
70 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Adsinjapan

Adsinjapan
  • Members
  • 274 messages

Luigitornado wrote...

  love the endings;I feel like they make sense, I just am damn depressed about it all x_x which I think was Bioware's intention, which means they really are the master's of their craft.


If you took something positive and enjoyable from ME3, then that's absolutely wonderful!

But there's just something in me that's saying "nay" to what is quoted above.
I'm not calling myself a WRITER, but I can and I do write and I can tell you now, it's far easier to write a bad ending than a good one. After what I've expererinced playing through Mass Effect 3, it's as if most of the story was written by a Pulitzer winner then the last few pages were given to the cleaning maid to write.

It wasn't a gripping, intense and tragic ending, it was unsatisfactory, inconclusive, weak fluff that in my mind spat in the faces of those who have been paying such close attention to everything Mass Effect.
The choices that were touted for so many years were simply ripped out of our hands and we were spared the dignity of doing things "The Shepherd Way".
Each playthrough for all of us was a unique and wonderful experience, but in the end, the history that we built up came to nothing.

No, it could have been done in a much better way to satify everyone and their decisions.
There's no masterful work here, but a cheap fix for something that fell short of the goal.

#27
ukd

ukd
  • Members
  • 26 messages
I really think its because the endings weren't fleshed out, is pretty much what made them so bad.

Really, I want to like them. I do! Anything that wont make me feel fundamentally disappointed that all of these decisions and differences seem to all end up the same. I could buy the endings but show me just exactly how I made a difference.

#28
zer0netgain

zer0netgain
  • Members
  • 188 messages

Luigitornado wrote...

That's understanble. If I would attempt to explain it I'd say that there is a greater importance put on perserving ogranic life in the galaxy and ensuring that various species are given a chance to evolve than say individual cycle and those ogranics. It's very metaphysical and I'm going to accept it for what I got.


And that's what bothers me.

If the "Ascension" into Reaper form served some higher purpose (i.e., what do they do out in dark space for 50,000 years), then I'd see how the catalyst would justify the horror of mass harvesting at the end of each cycle, but if all that happens is that the harvested races become one or more Reapers to the Reaper army waiting for the time to come in and repeat the process, my choice on what to do would be fairly simple.

If it is the former, then I'd be conflicted about either letting the Reapers continue doing what they do...knowing that in some way they are a step in the evolution of advanced life, or chosing to destroy them so that advanced life could self-determine on its own path.

If it is the latter, then there'd be no real choice.  Being "ascended" is no better than being exterminated...the Reapers just use organics to replenish what they expend every 50,000 years.

What little we are told is messed up because WHY CARE?  Why did the race that built the Reaper tech feel that allowing yet-to-exist organic life have its turn to mull about was even important if in the end it is only snuffed out once it could really achieve something?  You have to ASSUME that the Reapers have some grand purpose that makes it worthwhile to impose this cycle of order, but nothing is given to support it.

OF COURSE....

Keep in mind we finally get to meet a living Prothean...and we have every reason to be thankful there was not an army of them kept in stasis.  Maybe that's the subtext of the story line?  The Protheans were pretty much worshipped because of what they were believed to have given the younger races, but it turns out they were conquerors, and not all that nice about it either. 

Maybe the race that created the Reapers were just as mentally skewed?  They valued preserving organic life at any cost....so much so that they justify cyclical genocide of organics as a way to preserve it.  Or, in contrast, they so feared domination by synthetics that they create a race of synthetics to ensure no one generation of organics creates a race of synthetics that annihilate organic life once and for all.

Modifié par zer0netgain, 09 mars 2012 - 06:48 .


#29
zer0netgain

zer0netgain
  • Members
  • 188 messages
In a way, ME3 makes me think of the final Matrix movie.

Not to side track, but in the first Matrix movie, it was all kick butt.

In the second Matrix movie, they foreshadowed that the ending would be a status quo.

In the final Matrix movie, it ended with basically a status quo (Neo saves the machines and the machines don't destroy Zion and allow anyone who wants out of the Matrix to leave).

Same thing here.

Mass Effect was epic and it was about beating the bad guys.

Mass Effect 2 indicated that there was a large-scale purpose behind what the bad guys were doing...made you wonder if it would be wise to beat them.

Mass Effect 3 gives you three endings that are largely the same, but all have the same core element...organic life is free of the Reaper threat. Mass relays and the Citadel are gone. Organic life, for better or worse, is on its own.

#30
Kveki

Kveki
  • Members
  • 17 messages
 All right,after doing a bit of rewind in my head I had few simple thoughts that just don't add up.

First,why the hell was Normandy even in the mass field when it was supposed to be fighting on Earth?

Second, the squad members that got out of the ship were exact same ones that were with me when we were hit by the reaper beam.

And third,why did the catalyst look like the kid from my dreams ?


All in all I believe that if all of u get the ending where squad mates that come out are the same one that were with you when the beam hit you,Bioware is planning something....

It might be a ''plot hole'' or something but I think that this one is on purpouse....

Modifié par Kveki, 09 mars 2012 - 07:35 .


#31
Jayaa

Jayaa
  • Members
  • 17 messages
For the first time in my life, ever, I finished a game before my good friend. I stayed "mum" about the endings until, finally, last night he finished it at 2:30ish in the morning. We got talking about it, and he experienced numbness, too. But after getting ready for work this morning, I find this on my Facebook messages (and it's well worth a read of one person theory-crafting):

"Ok so as I dwell on this, I have come to some conclusions. The Catalyst says it is in the nature of the created to always destroy their creators. Basically that Synthetics will always end up trying to kill Organics. So they harvest the advanced civilizations after they have had their "reign" at the top, and allow the newer species to become advanced. However, each cycle of organics always creates an AI that will try to kill them off in the end, so if the reapers dont intervene, synthetics would eventually wipe out Organics. So basically organics were here first, we create synthetics, and eventually synthetics are all thats left, and organics cease to exist for eternity. So in fact, the reapers are not the bad guys. Sure, their methods are horrific and they slaughter trillions of organics per 50k years, but they are in fact preserving organic life as a whole by keeping them from creating something that will eventually wipe them all our for good.

So yeah, the destruction way would be the worst. Sure, you save organics for the time being, but you slaughter all the Geth, and wipe all high advanced technology from the galaxy. Eventually the cycle will lead to synthetics taking over and wiping organics from the galaxy. You live, but you won't ever see your friends again, and eventually everyone will be killed in the long run. No bueno.

Control, I find is somewhat good because you take the reapers away and end the war, but you still have the possible threat of Geth or another type of AI starting the cycle and causing the synthetic takeover that will wipe organics. However, it does not specify if Shepard can control ALL of synthetics, or just the reapers, and it does not specify how LONG he would be able to control them. It says he will die, and be able to control them, but it doesnt specify for how long or what his extent of AI he can control. So I don't think I like the thought of Sheperd being consumed and stuck being in control of the reapers for eternity. He would never truly "die," and so therefore I wouldnt like it, because I happen to believe in heaven and like the thought of him meeting up with all of his friends in heaven someday instead of being in charge of reapers forever. It gives me that idea of pirates of the carribean when Will has to take over for Davy Jones, so he never gets to die, so therefore he would never get to be with his woman because he would never die. No bueno again. I dont like the thought of that. However if he is in charge of the reapers forever, he may be able to use them to reconstruct the mass effect relays, and get everything back together again. The question would be does Catalyst still exist, and does he have the knowledge to build them, or is he just a synthetic being that was created by a cycle that grew aware of the innevitable wars between synthetics and organics every cycle, and wanted to start his plan to stop it.

Then of course there is the Synthesis ending, which I honestly think I will prefer as my choice of ending in the long run. It says that if people merge as organic and synthesis, there would be peace. Both AI and Organics are always trying to evolve to become perfect. However, if the two merge, the need for evolution is gone, and everything can live in peace because there is no organic or synthetic anymore. Everything in the galaxy would be both. And the benefits would probably be extremely rewarding to be both, so the fact that organics and synthetics dont have a say in the matter doesnt seem to be extremely bad. Joker could probably walk normally, diseases would see like they would be nonexistant, etc. Not to mention they may be able to someday rebuild the relays way down the road and reunite all the galaxy again. And Sheperd would be completely dead, so therefor he would be in heaven waiting and watching over his friends until they could all meet up again in heaven.

Of course in all endings, your friends will mourn you, and your romance will be heartbroken, but that seems to be innevitable. Taking comfort in the fact that they could all be reunited after death is my only slight comfort in the matter.

And the more I think about it, I can see why they would strand your closest friends on another world. It shows they can still flourish and survive in the new place, and start another civilization from scratch. Not to mention pretty much glorify Shepard into a sort of godlike, legendary hero. And if you think about it, it kinda puts an interesting spin on mythology and lore. We usually think of mythology as being ancient. Certain beings doing things in the far, ancient past, that result in our world today, however we usually think of past like ancient egypt or ancient greece, and we usually associate those beings as being on ancient earth.

However, this puts the speculation that what if these myths are true people, but from extremely long ago, from a more advanced time than what we are today. Such as in mass effect. It is obviously in the future, however, the planet the crew is on will start from scratch, so naturally the myth of Sheperd would be thought of as being a ancient person from that planet in a less advanced time then what they are. Such as how we think of mythology on earth as taking place back in less advanced times, such as ancient greece.

But what if the myths WE hear on earth were really of actual persons from a LONG LONG time ago, but they came from a more advanced civilization that lived on a different planet, that did something extrordinary, and afterwards civilization deteriorated, and planets were cut off, so people on earth made the myths about them, and through time, they were turned into ancient legends rather than actual people.

Example would be what if humans were extremely more advanced 4000+ years ago, living on multiple planets throughout the galaxy, being advanced, just as mass effect was. However something happened, and some humans found and landed on Earth, and uninhabited planet, and had to start from scratch, which their decendants would have been what we know of as the ancient egyptians other beginning sources of humanity on earth. Doesnt mean the rest of the galaxy isnt still advanced. Just means we had to start over here on Earth, and the myths and legends we talk about on earth may have been popular people that did amazing things on other planets. Who knows, maybe God was just a person that did something amazing like Sheperd, and after a while he was glorified so much in our legends, that he started being regarded as a divine entity to people on earth.

Just kind of an intersting perspective on the whole thing, and if you look at it at that perspective when you see how mass effect ends with the crew being stranded on a new planet, having to start from scratch, it makes it seem a slight bit possible that maybe earth was the same way and we just dont know it. I wish I could kinda explain more clearly my way of thinking, but I dont think I would be able to do that."

Modifié par Jayaa, 09 mars 2012 - 07:47 .


#32
Aerich

Aerich
  • Members
  • 7 messages

Arokel wrote...

Ok whole "Reapers dont make sense" argument seems to be based around the fact that people are confused about how the Reapers save organic life from synthetics.

This doesn't make sense to many people but to me it does. The Reapers go in and destroy and harvest the advanced civilizations but leave primitive ones alone. This allows these civilizations to flourish until it begins again. It seems to me that the Catalyst and, presumably, the people who created it made the Reapers because they feared that an uncontrolled synthetic force would wipe out ALL organic life, not just advanced or even sentient organic life.

It does seem to bit odd to us but after all. These people weren't human.

This right here.  From what I understood, some extremely advanced race or races long, long ago built the Reapers and Guardian to insure at least some organic life will be preserved.  According to their schedule, every 10,000 years, primative species become advanced enough to create artificial intelligence, which they believe can only lead to the extinction of organic life.  Thus the Reapers come in, like some twisted version of Noah's Ark, destroying advanced civilizations, and preserve their genetic code in the form of other Reapers.

#33
Adsinjapan

Adsinjapan
  • Members
  • 274 messages

Kveki wrote...

All in all I believe that if all of u get the ending where squad mates that come out are the same one that were with you when the beam hit you,Bioware is planning something....

It might be a ''plot hole'' or something but I think that this one is on purpouse....


It's one HELL of a risky purpose on Bioware's part if this was all for a big revelatory finale. They managed to ****** off a lot of faithful fans with this tactic if that's what it really is.
But I think like a lot of us, if Bioware can pull this one back out of the fire before it truely burns up, then I think i could forgive them.

#34
Luan

Luan
  • Members
  • 403 messages
So then, how much do the endings actually change if you've got a very high Military Readiness?

I think the endings are a love-hate relationship for me.
The Reapers are explained enough, I guess we'll never understand them, after all they're incomprehensible. I think the catalyst could've explained everything a little better, but in the end, I believe it was all victory through sacrifice.
I always expected to sacrifice myself for the betterment of the galaxy.

#35
The_Real_Lee

The_Real_Lee
  • Members
  • 169 messages
I would have liked it better if there was a fourth option, of doing nothing. If you got enough of the Galaxy at War assets then the fleet defeats the reapers. Making unity the force that saves the Galaxy, and giving an option of victory that isn't reliant on Shep.

#36
Extort

Extort
  • Members
  • 122 messages
 build our own relays huh... 

#37
Luan

Luan
  • Members
  • 403 messages

Extort wrote...

 build our own relays huh... 


I believe we could.
If the Protheans did it, surely we can figure it out too.

#38
DocStone

DocStone
  • Members
  • 177 messages
I think the main problem with the endings is that they can't be explained.

At the end Shepard comes face to face with his/her ultimate enemy - the StarChild. This entity it is explained is the mind behind the Reapers, their creator, their God in a way. This entity believes that there is a danger in every civilisation that they will create a race of AIs that will destroy the galaxy, bringing chaos to the order. To stop this happening this entity has wiped out every single sentient species the galaxy has ever seen over millennia, turning them into the Reapers, controlling them, bringing order to their existence.

This entity is ultimately responsible for the deaths of an unimaginable amount of intelligent life forms because it believes that Organic and Synthetic life forms can never get along. this entity is trying as we speak to it, to wipe out everything that Shepard holds dear - his friends, his love, his home, everything, even Shepard himself.

Faced with this entity, this creature, what does Shepard do? For the first time in his existence he gives in. He does not argue, he does not threaten, he ignores every single part of his being and agrees with his ultimate foe that the extinction of sentient life is OK because of something that may happen. He meekly accepts the choices laid before him for the first time in his life and asks no questions, offers no counter argument.

Why that happened there can be no explanation for. Unless the writers were drunk, in a rush to finish things off or just really bad at endings because they nailed every single other part of the story.

#39
Rafe34

Rafe34
  • Members
  • 1 095 messages

The_Real_Lee wrote...

I would have liked it better if there was a fourth option, of doing nothing. If you got enough of the Galaxy at War assets then the fleet defeats the reapers. Making unity the force that saves the Galaxy, and giving an option of victory that isn't reliant on Shep.


Bingo. That's what I wanted. Make it very difficult, make it so that you have to have nearly all war assets, hell even 100% galatic readiness, idc, make it so a ton of people are killed by the Reapers, but if you have the geth, quarians, batarian, elcor, hanar, asari, turian, and human fleets, (and I'm probably forgetting someone), then the fleets take down the Reapers. 

The problem with the endings is that they really didn't make sense.

Why does Shep have to jump into a giant pillar of light in order to get synthesis? Why can you only get the synthesis ending if your EMS is above a certain number? Why does that matter?

If the destroy option also wipes out all synthetics, (including EDI and the geth), then why does the control option only work on the Reapers?

We are taking this thing's word that the Reapers are necessary to the cycle. Shepard should have been able to use charm/intidimate to induce a paradox to the Guardian so that it self-destructed or something, and then the fleets take down the Reapers.

Once again, as with Dragon Age 2, it felt like- although only at the end- Bioware had a story to tell and we were just along for the ride, instead of telling our own story. ME3 was incredible, right up until the end, and the fact that it's the end of a trilogy has just soured the whole series for me.

No one speaks or says anything during the ending, so they didn't have to run multiple scenes with the VAs doing that- it just felt lazy and rushed.

Kveki wrote...

 All right,after doing a bit of rewind in my head I had few simple thoughts that just don't add up.

First,why the hell was Normandy even in the mass field when it was supposed to be fighting on Earth?

Second, the squad members that got out of the ship were exact same ones that were with me when we were hit by the reaper beam.

And third,why did the catalyst look like the kid from my dreams ?


All in all I believe that if all of u get the ending where squad mates that come out are the same one that were with you when the beam hit you,Bioware is planning something....

It might be a ''plot hole'' or something but I think that this one is on purpouse....

 

If you choose the synthesis option, I saw EDI and Joker on the planet, and Garrus getting out of the Normandy. That was it. Garrus was my femshep's LI, and he was with my final squad, but so was Tali, and I didn't see her at all.

#40
Rafe34

Rafe34
  • Members
  • 1 095 messages

DocStone wrote...

I think the main problem with the endings is that they can't be explained.

At the end Shepard comes face to face with his/her ultimate enemy - the StarChild. This entity it is explained is the mind behind the Reapers, their creator, their God in a way. This entity believes that there is a danger in every civilisation that they will create a race of AIs that will destroy the galaxy, bringing chaos to the order. To stop this happening this entity has wiped out every single sentient species the galaxy has ever seen over millennia, turning them into the Reapers, controlling them, bringing order to their existence.

This entity is ultimately responsible for the deaths of an unimaginable amount of intelligent life forms because it believes that Organic and Synthetic life forms can never get along. this entity is trying as we speak to it, to wipe out everything that Shepard holds dear - his friends, his love, his home, everything, even Shepard himself.

Faced with this entity, this creature, what does Shepard do? For the first time in his existence he gives in. He does not argue, he does not threaten, he ignores every single part of his being and agrees with his ultimate foe that the extinction of sentient life is OK because of something that may happen. He meekly accepts the choices laid before him for the first time in his life and asks no questions, offers no counter argument.

Why that happened there can be no explanation for. Unless the writers were drunk, in a rush to finish things off or just really bad at endings because they nailed every single other part of the story.


Well said. We needed a "screw you" ending.  I even tried shooting the entity, and randomly firing shots at different pieces of equipment.

It's got to be housed somewhere, right?

#41
MrChowderClam

MrChowderClam
  • Members
  • 490 messages
I see the reapers as a force of nature, really. They exist to provide balance and order in an otherwise unstable galaxy. The reapers harvest advanced civilizations in order to prevent the complete destruction of organic life - now and in the future. However, their creators knew that this solution could not last forever.

This is why they seeded the ideas for a crucible - a device that, given a sufficiently advanced cycle, could preclude the need for the reapers by eliminating the struggle between organic and synthetic life. So for countless generations, organic life worked on the crucible, improving it, adding to it, advancing organic life as a whole, but never going too far to jeopardize being completely wiped out by synthetics.

Finally, when the crucible is complete, it's a sign to the catalyst (arguably the collective consciousness of the reapers - or indeed the creators of the reapers) that the reapers are simply not powerful enough to conquer organic life any longer, and that a new solution is required. I don't think the catalyst was directly responsible for the crucible at first, but somewhere in history, it discovered the plans and modified them to become a new solution - rather than a device to simple destroy synthetic life. Thus, it asks Shepard to choose whether to destroy all synthetic life in the hopes of dominating the problem through force, continue the cycle by controlling the reapers and becoming the new catalyst, or solving the problem by merging organics and synthetics.

#42
Luan

Luan
  • Members
  • 403 messages

Rafe34 wrote...

Once again, as with Dragon Age 2, it felt like- although only at the end- Bioware had a story to tell and we were just along for the ride, instead of telling our own story. ME3 was incredible, right up until the end, and the fact that it's the end of a trilogy has just soured the whole series for me.


See, but it was never OUR story, our decisions helped the sub-plots, but why would they make a game that's not the story that they want to tell?
We were just a long for the ride from the start, I've never felt once in the entire mass effect series that it was MY story, only that it was their story but the way I interpret it.
You could also argue that it's their story but your shepard, but if that's the case then you'd also argue that your shepard wouldn't do any of the options at the end.
The way I see it, it's BioWare's story, and BioWare's Shepard, but we influence everything around those 2 things.
I'll point you to this: 
http://www.eurogamer...owe-you-nothing 
not quite the same thing, but it's something I agree with that reflects the situation most fans find themselves in right now.

#43
Luan

Luan
  • Members
  • 403 messages

MrChowderClam wrote...

I see the reapers as a force of nature, really. They exist to provide balance and order in an otherwise unstable galaxy. The reapers harvest advanced civilizations in order to prevent the complete destruction of organic life - now and in the future. However, their creators knew that this solution could not last forever.

This is why they seeded the ideas for a crucible - a device that, given a sufficiently advanced cycle, could preclude the need for the reapers by eliminating the struggle between organic and synthetic life. So for countless generations, organic life worked on the crucible, improving it, adding to it, advancing organic life as a whole, but never going too far to jeopardize being completely wiped out by synthetics.

Finally, when the crucible is complete, it's a sign to the catalyst (arguably the collective consciousness of the reapers - or indeed the creators of the reapers) that the reapers are simply not powerful enough to conquer organic life any longer, and that a new solution is required. I don't think the catalyst was directly responsible for the crucible at first, but somewhere in history, it discovered the plans and modified them to become a new solution - rather than a device to simple destroy synthetic life. Thus, it asks Shepard to choose whether to destroy all synthetic life in the hopes of dominating the problem through force, continue the cycle by controlling the reapers and becoming the new catalyst, or solving the problem by merging organics and synthetics.


That........makes a lot of sense.
I think the Child is the Citadel and the Citadel is the reaper's main AI.
Not that it's some God or Superior form of life that controls stuff.
And I also believe it manifested as something that Shepard could relate to.

#44
zerebul

zerebul
  • Members
  • 25 messages

StrawberryRainPop wrote...

i hate the ending.

The whole reaper situation and the guardian is TERRIBLE writing.
Just think, this is what they are saying.

To prevent organics and synthetics from killing each other, the "Guardians" (the kid at the end of the game) mind control Synthetics to kill organics.
That = 0 logic.

So to have a deux ex machina at the end to "convince" shepard that the only way to win is to use these 3 bad choices, it was very disappointing, and did not take any choices that you made in the previous games into account. None of the sub plots were resolved, no closure for the characters, which is the best part of the series.

So yes of course you feel dissatisfied with the conclusion. We see Shepard dieing, thats it. Its lazy and bad writing.

That said, the game was amazing up to that point. But the answer and rationale of the Guardians is amazingly stupid.


This is what happens when you change the main writer of a series at its conclusion. 

#45
GODofWAR93

GODofWAR93
  • Members
  • 146 messages
Rumors say that Shepard starts hallucinating right before he gets into the Citadel by the beam. I really hope this is the case...Bioware has given us three amazing games with amazing characters which people have come to grow fond of and then in the last minutes of the third game everything is thrown away like it meant nothing. I do not see why the Catalyst would take on the form of that child and how the Illusive Man popped out of nowhere. None of it made sense, and the worst part is that no information was given about what would happen next. Would Shepard see his crew/LI if you had him survive? What happened to the other races? None of it seemed right, none of it seemed like a "Mass Effect" ending.

#46
AxisEvolve

AxisEvolve
  • Members
  • 2 738 messages
The choices you have to make at the end seem out of place. To destroy the Reapers you also need to destroy the Geth? I spent the whole game learning that the Geth deserve to be alive as much as organics do. 

I think the reason why it feels so bad is because the sacrifices were too great. I personally felt like I failed as Commander Shepard. And the worse part is you just can't succeed.

As a Paragon, my Shepard spent the whole game reinforcing the importance of hope. But Bioware gave us no chance for hope in the endings.

What Bioware gave us was the barebones ending: Defeat the Reapers. 

But can anyone honestly say that's why they played Mass Effect for? I didn't play it for the Reapers. I played it the "little things". The characters, the places, the relationships. But they disregarded all of that.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 10 mars 2012 - 07:47 .


#47
rorako

rorako
  • Members
  • 180 messages
So, here's what I think the endings meant.  Warning: TL;DR post ensues.

First off, the catalyst.  Why was it the child?  For the same reason that the Quarians still had suits on during the Geth server mission.  Shephard had no reference on what this...entity was or looked like.  The entity most likely chose a familiar form, and what's been on Shephards mind the entire game?  The kid that died at the begining, the child that he had been chasing in his nightmares.

Now, the entity's explanation of the Reapers was pretty straight forward.  He, it, whatever created the Reapers to save organic life.  There comes a point (i.e., the Quarian and the Geth) where the created wish to rebel against hte creator (whether it be the Creator or Created's fault is not important, it always happens).  In order to "save" organic life from synthetic life, the reapers, led by Harbinger, harvest the species of the galaxy and "ascend" them to reaper form.  As seen in ME2, they liquify corpses and use the actual species to create a reaper, storing the advanced civilization somehow and preserving it.  They leave the primitive, non-civilized cultures that haven't advanced behind until they become advanced enough to create synthetic life.  This is seen on Mars in a datapad, where a note is left saying the Protheans had actually started to study primitive humans.  Humans had been around afterall, but were primitive and just starting out, when the protheans were around.

 To the Reapers, if organic life was left unchecked, the Synthetics they create would eventually destroy ALL organic life (regardless if advanced or primitive), sort of like a disease.  The Reapers harvest and store the advanced civilizations before they reach that point, allowing the un-advanced civilizations to live and evolve.  They cut out the cancer and let it grow again, only to cut it out in another 50,000 years.

Now, the reason the Catalys allowed Shepheard to chose how to deal with the Reapers was becuase his solution no longer applied.  Each cycle had helped the next, to the point where the organics finally made it to the Catalyst.  Even if the catalyst had killed Shepheard somehow, he knew the next cycle would come and finish the job.  Now, onto the three choices:

I'm going by the best possible ending for each one. 

Control the Reapers, everything lives with Reapers under control somehow.  Shepheard dies, but technology still exists, along with synthetics (the geth, etc).  "Human nature" is unchanged, though.  Greed, war, death, and all other evil in the galaxy will remain, with factions most likely vying for the power of the Reapers.  Still, everyone lives (except for the Mass relays).  Basically, Galaxy goes back to status quo, just with out Shepheard.

Destroy the Reapers, along with synthetic life.  Now, when explaining the three options, this is the only option that (at best) allows Shepheard a chance at living.  I see this as sort of the greedy, renegade option, to be honest.  Shepheard choses a chance at his own life, but sacraficing EDI, the Geth, and all high level Synthetics.  He gets a chance at living, though, and wants revenge agains the Reapers for killing off everyone, etc.

Synthesis.  This is probably the best and most "paragon" option.  Sacraficing his life, once again, Shepheard combines Synthetics and Organics, creating a new DNA that, theoretically, could eliminate "evil" from the galaxy and allow everyone to live in peace.  What this means, I don't know.  Synthetics don't need food, they don't need nutrients, they just live.  They also don't have emotions, but the organics were combined with the synthetics.  It's hinted that synthesis would only take the best of both synthetics and organics and combine them, keeping positive emotions but eliminate war, death, greed, etc.  At the cost of Shepheards life, he creates a universe of peace.

Now, of course, this was all soured by the lack of closure of characters.  I liked the choices, and what they meant to me, but I disliked how you don't know what happens based on that choice.  No matter what you chose, the Normandy crash lands on the same jungle planet, with the same leaves, and the same crew walks out.  Every.  Single.  Time.  I'm actually at the point where I think I'm goign to write my own fan-fic ending, just to get something I want.  I wish they had done something, even like with Halo 3, where there's a memorial to Shepheard, and at least some closure as to if Earth survived, what happened to Liara.  I mean, simple, two second flashbacks of Garrus and Primarch Victus on the bridge of their ship, looking over Palavin rebuilding, Tali returning to Rannoch (excuse my spelling) where Geth and Quarins are rebuilding together.  Liara, saddened by the loss of her love, returning to help rebuild Thessia, and then maybe a short little clip of Hackett, along with Kaiden or Ashley, looking over a rebuilding Earth.

Simple closure like that would have been better.  I just feel so...meh.  I feel like the choices were fine, but the "what happenes next?" question at the end is bitter.

#48
Guest_Arcian_*

Guest_Arcian_*
  • Guests

StrawberryRainPop wrote...

i hate the ending.

The whole reaper situation and the guardian is TERRIBLE writing.
Just think, this is what they are saying.

To prevent organics and synthetics from killing each other, the "Guardians" (the kid at the end of the game) mind control Synthetics to kill organics.
That = 0 logic.

No but that's the thing, in your stupidity and ignorance you have missed the entire point of what the Catalyst said. It and the Reapers do not see the invasion as "killing". They harvest organic species and preserve them in Reaper form as a kind of memorial/reinforcement, while essentially resetting the galaxy by allowing primitive life to fill the void left behind by the harvested advanced life.

Also, the Reapers are not synthetics. They are hybrids. This has been established over and over again countless times.

Seriously, you people are some of the most intelligence-deficit individuals I have ever had the misfortune of listening to. Paying attention is not f***ing rocket science to normal people.

#49
C Trayne

C Trayne
  • Members
  • 263 messages

Luan wrote...

I'm okay with the mass relays/citadel being destroyed because I feel they weren't supposed to be there in the first place and they're a reminder of the Reaper's legacy. Plus we can probably build our own by now.


i haven't seen all the endings but are the mass relays destroyed in all of them?

and if they are how can we rebuild our own if all technology is destroyed?  There wouldn't even be a way to fly up there to start building it cause all the engines in the ships would be cooked.  At least thats the way i interpretted it.

#50
Almostfaceman

Almostfaceman
  • Members
  • 5 463 messages

Luan wrote...

Now starting my second playthrough of the game...I must admit, no matter what way I look at it, I feel like I'm fighting for nothing. I know that's not the case, but the endings did leave an emotional gap on me so to speak.
I almost feel as if I want to side with the Reapers, as if they do indeed keep order in the galaxy.
If BioWare wanted to invoke emotions that are incredibly strong on me, well they have. :P


I think part of the reason folks say "lazy writing" is that there would have been a lot more work if they did something like this:

Low war assets - detailed battle, with results of who you brought into the battle as seen through the eyes of the Normandy, races getting wiped out, super high casualties, the loss of Earth but still a win for all the races involved (if they want to stick with a no-Reaper-win endings)

Medium war assets - detailed battle, with results of who you brought into the battle as seen through the eyes of the Normandy, maybe just one race fleet gets wiped out, super high casualties, Earth is saved but only a handful of humans survive..

High war assets - detailed battle, with results of who you brought into the battle as seen through the eyes of the Normandy, no fleet gets totally wiped out, high casualties, Earth is saved...

With more details about results on other race homeworlds, how beat up Shepard is when he arrives on the Citadel, if any of his squadmates make it up to the Citadel with him alive or almost dead.. the ability to bargain with the Creator of the Reapers based on what war assets you bring to the table...

A detailed Epilogue that wraps up what happens to the races you've just worked so hard to unite or blow off and the same with your squaddie's. You know, an ending for all those who have been with you for a good chunk of the story.

Instead we get in the end a genie who give us three lame wishes. Less wishes based on war assets. A Shepard who trusts the genie he's never met, a genie who has been slaughtering organics for millions of years. Then we get some confused scene of Joker leaving the battle field for an unexplained reason, the ship almost getting destroyed zapping from relay to relay, people alive who were on the battlefield a moment ago, and no mention of Shepard, no mention of who lives or dies, no mention of what happens to the alliances you've forged... just more questions than answers.

I don't tell people how to think about the ending, if you like it you like it, if you don't you don't. It just so happens it seems that most folks don't like it and agree with me. It seems you're falling into that camp of "don't like". I believe with good reason.