49 réponses à ce sujet

[Bellendaine]

Painaid wrote...

 Shepard is a Spectre. Your argument is invalid.

Agreed ... Kaidan's a major, which also outranks Shepard's "Commander" (and is he even an actual Commander, he's originally a Lieutenant Commander and I don't recall a promotion scene [or did I miss that?]), but the fact that he's a Spectre means no one "outranks" him other than the Council itself, unless he choses (as he seems to) to obey Alliance protocols with Hackett and Anderson.

[ZX12r Ninja]

General User wrote...
Depending of Shepard's actions, the quarians become an ally of the Systems Alliance.  The Migrant Fleet's status under, or relationship with, the Citadel Council is simply not relevant. 

I'm not talking about "being in charge", I'm talking about rank.  Tali has more than Shepard now.  Much more.

Yeah, so? Admiral Hacket also has more, much more. Aliances are bound by treaties, no treaty means no obligations, Shepard doesn't have to respect Tali's rank. Even if there were a treaty Shepard is a Spectre. They are friends and have been friends way before, nothings going to change that not even the fact that she's an admiral. Like I said before, it's obvious everybody agrees Shepard is the hero here and everybody respects that, Tali does so too. And finally, who gives a ****? Do you think anybody is goign to argue this in the middle of a war which Shepard has been trying to avoid for 2 1/2 years?

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 09 mars 2012 - 04:57 .

[PapVogel]

General User wrote...

PapVogel wrote...

Seeing as Shepard has been appointed the surpreme commander of the "take earth back fight" he still outranks Tali even though he's just a commander.

I thought Admiral Hackett was the Supreme Commander.

Admiral hackett is the commander of the fleet, but it's Shepard who pulls all the strings, deciding when the ground forces attack, when the fleet attacks etc...

[General User]

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

General User wrote...
Depending of Shepard's actions, the quarians become an ally of the Systems Alliance.  The Migrant Fleet's status under, or relationship with, the Citadel Council is simply not relevant. 

I'm not talking about "being in charge", I'm talking about rank.  Tali has more than Shepard now.  Much more.

Yeah, so?

So Tali needs to act and be treated accordingly.

ZX12r Ninja wrote...
Admiral Hacket also has more, much more.

Admiral Hackett isn't on the Normandy, Tali is.  Admiral Hackett is the commander of Allied forces to retake Earth, Tali is not.

ZX12r Ninja wrote...
Aliances are bound by treaties, no treaty means no obligations, Shepard doesn't have to respect Tali's rank. Even if there were a treaty Shepard is a Spectre.

Two things.  First, that knife cuts both ways.  If Alliance officers aren't obligated to respect quarian ranks, then quarian officers aren't obligated to repect Spectre status. 

Second, the obligation doesn't have to be formally in writing.  Common military protocol and courtesy dictate that the officers of allied powers be treated in accordance with their rank regardless of the official status of their treaty progress.

ZX12r Ninja wrote...
They are friends and have been friends way before, nothings going to change that not even the fact that she's an admiral. Like I said before, it's obvious everybody agrees Shepard is the hero here and everybody respects that, Tali does so too.

I never said otherwise.

ZX12r Ninja wrote...
And finally, who gives a ****? Do you think anybody is goign to argue this in the middle of a war which Shepard has been trying to avoid for 2 1/2 years?

Minor correction:  Shepard has been preparing to fight this war for 2 1/2 years and trying to get others to do the same.  Not trying to avoid it.

Modifié par General User, 09 mars 2012 - 05:31 .

[Jigero]

General User wrote...

Jigero wrote...

General User wrote...

Tali doesn't need to be Alliance, as an Admiral, she the senior Allied officer present on the Normandy.  If Shepard recruits the Migrant Fleet for the war that is.

Wait why does Tali needed to be given specail treatment when Wrex, The Primarch, and Raan are not given speacial treatment? Theyy all out ranked Shepard and where important diginitaries and even had more importance then Tali.

What do you mean?  The Primarch was a head-of-state. Wrex was a warlord.  And Shala Raan was an Admiral.  They are all given the proper regard and treatment due persons of their station. 

Tali is the only one who doesn't act and isn't treated like what she is, a very senior flag officer and government official for an Allied power.

But like she said it was an honoray title  that she doesn't want. So of course she diddn't act like one. Even the other admirals other then Raan don't  give a **** about her position.

[General User]

Jigero wrote...
But like she said it was an honoray title  that she doesn't want.

Adm. Raan also said that Tali needed the authority rank provided her (which was a big part of why she got it in the first place).  And Tali issues orders to the Migrant Fleet.  "Honorary title" or not, Tali Zorah is an Admiral of the Migrant Fleet.

Jigero wrote...
So of course she diddn't act like one. Even the other admirals other then Raan don't  give a **** about her position.

Which is no excuse for either Shepard or Tali.

Modifié par General User, 09 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Aesieru]

General User wrote...

She's an Admiral now, while Shep is still a Commander. 

"But she's a Migrant Fleet Admiral!  Shepard's Alliance!"
Doesn't really matter if Shepard recruits the Migrant Fleet for the war effort.  Allied powers, are bound by tradition and protocol to respect each other's ranks.

Now I think Tali's far too important to be running and gunning with Shepard, but, if she must  be on the Normandy (hell, if anything the quarians have too many Admirals, look at that debacle with the geth dreadnaught), she should be in the war room not the engine room.

You forget that the Admiralty Board is not an actual military ranking structure.

[General User]

The Admiralty Board's function is both political and military. Like Tali said, the quarians are still officially under martial law.

[JakeGamer1]

Shepard's true rank is debatable. Even with the promotion between 1 and 2 to full commander, Shepard is more or less an Admiral of Earth due to the fact that Admirals report to them rather than vice versa. It is also important to note that Liara as the Shadow Broker outranks a good many people, Garrus as the 10th in line to be primarch is the the same way, and the real kicker is the VS who is either just one step below or a step above in physical rank and is a SPECTRE so the whole outside of chain of command doesn't apply. That being said experience generally trumps rank in actual command. If you have a lieutenant that has witnessed a specific tactic a Major would still defer to them for the best counter.

[Aesieru]

General User wrote...

The Admiralty Board's function is both political and military. Like Tali said, the quarians are still officially under martial law.

But it doesn't rank in that board, it's more like a committee with military ability, else you wouldn't have instant promotions from civilian all the way to Admiral, that just doesn't happen.

[General User]

Aesieru wrote...

General User wrote...

The Admiralty Board's function is both political and military. Like Tali said, the quarians are still officially under martial law.

But it doesn't rank in that board, it's more like a committee with military ability, else you wouldn't have instant promotions from civilian all the way to Admiral, that just doesn't happen.

Yes it does.  In many human societies, when civilians of exceptional experience and/or ability (civilians like Tali) are brought into the military, they often enter at very senior levels.  Apparently the quarians are similar to us in this regard.

[Aesieru]

General User wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

General User wrote...

The Admiralty Board's function is both political and military. Like Tali said, the quarians are still officially under martial law.

But it doesn't rank in that board, it's more like a committee with military ability, else you wouldn't have instant promotions from civilian all the way to Admiral, that just doesn't happen.

Yes it does.  In many human societies, when civilians of exceptional experience and/or ability (civilians like Tali) are brought into the military, they often enter at very senior levels.  Apparently the quarians are similar to us in this regard.

There is no civilian that suddenly became the near highest rank within 1 moment without any military experience. it has not and will not happen. The closest you can get to is President and that doesn't work that way.

[General User]

Aesieru wrote...

General User wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

General User wrote...

The Admiralty Board's function is both political and military. Like Tali said, the quarians are still officially under martial law.

But it doesn't rank in that board, it's more like a committee with military ability, else you wouldn't have instant promotions from civilian all the way to Admiral, that just doesn't happen.

Yes it does.  In many human societies, when civilians of exceptional experience and/or ability (civilians like Tali) are brought into the military, they often enter at very senior levels.  Apparently the quarians are similar to us in this regard.

There is no civilian that suddenly became the near highest rank within 1 moment without any military experience. it has not and will not happen. The closest you can get to is President and that doesn't work that way.

Tali has extensive military experience.  She just wasn't in the military when she acquired much of it.

Modifié par General User, 09 mars 2012 - 06:07 .

[Zofiya]

General User wrote...

Now I think Tali's far too important to be running and gunning with Shepard, but, if she must  be on the Normandy (hell, if anything the quarians have too many Admirals, look at that debacle with the geth dreadnaught), she should be in the war room not the engine room.

Yeah, but if Tali is an admiral, with the privileges and responsibilities of that rank, then she can go wherever she wants on the Normandy. She likes the engineering crew, she loves ship tech and she especially loves the Normandy -- if Tali wants to hang out in the engine room, or the lounge, or even the crawlspaces, who is going to stop her? "I'm sorry, Admiral Zorah, you can't be in engineering because you are far, far too important to hang out with this rabble!"

[withinthelight]

I was almost expecting Shepard to jokingly poke fun at this fact. I.e. start saluting her, "yes, ma'am", "Admiral on deck!" and so forth.

[General User]

aristaea wrote...

General User wrote...

Now I think Tali's far too important to be running and gunning with Shepard, but, if she must  be on the Normandy (hell, if anything the quarians have too many Admirals, look at that debacle with the geth dreadnaught), she should be in the war room not the engine room.

Yeah, but if Tali is an admiral, with the privileges and responsibilities of that rank, then she can go wherever she wants on the Normandy. She likes the engineering crew, she loves ship tech and she especially loves the Normandy -- if Tali wants to hang out in the engine room, or the lounge, or even the crawlspaces, who is going to stop her? "I'm sorry, Admiral Zorah, you can't be in engineering because you are far, far too important to hang out with this rabble!"

You're completely right of course.  I would just think that the duties of an Admiral would keep Tali pretty busy, mainly in the warroom.  Kinda like the other grand poobah's the Normandy plays host to throughout the game.

[General User]

withinthelight wrote...
I was almost expecting Shepard to jokingly poke fun at this fact. I.e. start saluting her, "yes, ma'am", "Admiral on deck!" and so forth.

That would have been fun.

[TeamLexana]

Adugan wrote...

She is in the engine room only once or twice, as far as I can tell. The other times she is making out with Garrus, looking at the memorial, and doing other stuff.

Ohs hells no. Not my Tali. She know's I'm liable to cut a beyatch if she gets near MY TURIAN.  

[OblivionDawn]

General User wrote...

She's an Admiral now, while Shep is still a Commander. 

"But she's a Migrant Fleet Admiral!  Shepard's Alliance!"
Doesn't really matter if Shepard recruits the Migrant Fleet for the war effort.  Allied powers, are bound by tradition and protocol to respect each other's ranks.

I just made my own military, of which I am the SuperCommanderGeneralPrime.

So all armies of the world are subjugated to my whims right?

[General User]

OblivionDawn wrote...

General User wrote...

She's an Admiral now, while Shep is still a Commander. 

"But she's a Migrant Fleet Admiral!  Shepard's Alliance!"
Doesn't really matter if Shepard recruits the Migrant Fleet for the war effort.  Allied powers, are bound by tradition and protocol to respect each other's ranks.

I just made my own military, of which I am the SuperCommanderGeneralPrime.

So all armies of the world are subjugated to my whims right?

How many people are there in your military?  Just you?  Then obviously no. 

But if you were a flag officer in a real (in ME anyways) military like Tali is in the Migrant Fleet, then yes (hyperbole aside of course).

For a RL example, let's say there was a general in the Canadian army serving along side Americans, Brits, the French and other allies.  The non-Canadian soldiers would still be required to treat the general with the respect and regard due his rank.  Allies are obliged to respect each other's officer's ranks and positions.

Modifié par General User, 09 mars 2012 - 08:44 .

[OblivionDawn]

General User wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

General User wrote...

She's an Admiral now, while Shep is still a Commander. 

"But she's a Migrant Fleet Admiral!  Shepard's Alliance!"
Doesn't really matter if Shepard recruits the Migrant Fleet for the war effort.  Allied powers, are bound by tradition and protocol to respect each other's ranks.

I just made my own military, of which I am the SuperCommanderGeneralPrime.

So all armies of the world are subjugated to my whims right?

How many people are there in your military?  Just you?  Then obviously no. 

But if you were a general in say... the Canadian army, then American soldiers would still be required to treat you with the respect and regard due your rank.  Allies are obliged to respect each other's officer's ranks and position.

But it doesn't matter how many people are in my military, all the Allied powers are bound by tradition and protocol to respect my rank.

[ziloe]

Why does this even matter? It doesn't.

[TheLostGenius]

 The Quarians are so stupid, they are about as unethical as Cereberus, except very dumb.

[General User]

OblivionDawn wrote...

General User wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

General User wrote...

She's an Admiral now, while Shep is still a Commander. 

"But she's a Migrant Fleet Admiral!  Shepard's Alliance!"
Doesn't really matter if Shepard recruits the Migrant Fleet for the war effort.  Allied powers, are bound by tradition and protocol to respect each other's ranks.

I just made my own military, of which I am the SuperCommanderGeneralPrime.

So all armies of the world are subjugated to my whims right?

How many people are there in your military?  Just you?  Then obviously no. 

But if you were a general in say... the Canadian army, then American soldiers would still be required to treat you with the respect and regard due your rank.  Allies are obliged to respect each other's officer's ranks and position.

But it doesn't matter how many people are in my military, all the Allied powers are bound by tradition and protocol to respect my rank.

It matters because it's not a military if it's just you.

[General User]

ziloe wrote...
Why does this even matter? It doesn't.

That's true.  It doesn't matter.  Yet it is. 
Tali outranks Shepard, by alot.  Some people (apparently) can't handle that.