64 réponses à ce sujet

[Treylinn]

Okay. A couple of things:

cRPGs that mimic table-top RPGs (like Fallout 1&2, BG 1&2 (PC)) are >>> than sandbox games IMO

I love the PC controls for RTS and RPG (like Starcraft and the BG series) but I am now pretty much an exclusive console gamer (PS3) due to hardware cost. I paid $400 for my PS3 a year ago and I expect it to last me at least another four years. I can handle an average $80 per year on gaming hardware.

What I long for is a mouse-like control integrated into a console controller. Perhaps like a trackball under the thumb or something? Although that doesn't sound ideal. I know the PS1 had a mouse and it didn't take off. What we need is a mouse-like control that doesn't require wrist motion and can be achieved through casual posture on a couch.

As far as DA:O specific: I agree that a high end PC will trump a console in function. No question. But I do like the graphics on my PS3 for what they are (and I can still play Wasteland, Fallout, and BG so graphics don't make my RPG experience). I recently watched a PC battle on Youtube for DA:O and I severely miss the BG-like controls when playing on my PS3. Here is what frustrates me:

-Lack of camera pull-back (I understand this is due to a limitation of my PS3 RAM so I can deal with it - I expect my next gen console to have more RAM and handle this type of view)

-Lack of issuing party commands BEFORE game unpauses. This is unforgivable. There is no hardware limitation to me issuing a command to each of my party members before unpausing. The game should NOT auto-unpause after I issue a single command. I have the radial menu toggled so I should have to UNTOGGLE before the game UNPAUSES. That is all.

-Lack of 'move to' feature. Again unforgivable IMO. I have an option to move AoE spells anywhere on the field (within reason) before unpausing but I can't issue a 'move' command to one or more of my party before unpausing? Garbage. Is there a hardware limitation I am missing here? If so then I can accept it. If not then I am insulted.

Are you trying to propagate the 'console kiddie' stereotype pushed forth by PC Elitests, Bioware? Yes I game on a console, but I am still the hardcore cRPG player that bought your fantastic BG 1&2 for PC (and also the BG console games which were excellent dungeon romps by their own right) and I am still the hardcore cRPG player that played Wasteland on my C64 twenty-five years ago. I am not a 'console kiddie' and would like to enjoy the fantastic tactics and strategy on my PS3 to the full extent my hardware permits. Thank you.

TLDR: Console camera control, pausing, and command issuing should NOT be nerfed on a console unless the hardware doesn't permit it. Great game and thanks for bringing it to the console!

Modifié par Treylinn, 28 novembre 2009 - 03:04 .

[I HAS A FLAVOUR]

Treylinn wrote...

Okay. A couple of things:

cRPGs that mimic table-top RPGs (like Fallout 1&2, BG 1&2 (PC)) are >>> than sandbox games IMO

I love the PC controls for RTS and RPG (like Starcraft and the BG series) but I am now pretty much an exclusive console gamer (PS3) due to hardware cost. I paid $400 for my PS3 a year ago and I expect it to last me at least another four years. I can handle an average $80 per year on gaming hardware.

What I long for is a mouse-like control integrated into a console controller. Perhaps like a trackball under the thumb or something? Although that doesn't sound ideal. I know the PS1 had a mouse and it didn't take off. What we need is a mouse-like control that doesn't require wrist motion and can be achieved through casual posture on a couch.

As far as DA:O specific: I agree that a high end PC will trump a console in function. No question. But I do like the graphics on my PS3 for what they are (and I can still play Wasteland, Fallout, and BG so graphics don't make my RPG experience). I recently watched a PC battle on Youtube for DA:O and I severely miss the BG-like controls when playing on my PS3. Here is what frustrates me:

-Lack of camera pull-back (I understand this is due to a limitation of my PS3 RAM so I can deal with it - I expect my next gen console to have more RAM and handle this type of view)

-Lack of issuing party commands BEFORE game unpauses. This is unforgivable. There is no hardware limitation to me issuing a command to each of my party members before unpausing. The game should NOT auto-unpause after I issue a single command. I have the radial menu toggled so I should have to UNTOGGLE before the game UNPAUSES. That is all.

-Lack of 'move to' feature. Again unforgivable IMO. I have an option to move AoE spells anywhere on the field (within reason) before unpausing but I can't issue a 'move' command to one or more of my party before unpausing? Garbage. Is there a hardware limitation I am missing here? If so then I can accept it. If not then I am insulted.

Are you trying to propagate the 'console kiddie' stereotype pushed forth by PC Elitests, Bioware? Yes I game on a console, but I am still the hardcore cRPG player that bought your fantastic BG 1&2 for PC (and also the BG console games which were excellent dungeon romps by their own right) and I am still the hardcore cRPG player that played Wasteland on my C64 twenty-five years ago. I am not a 'console kiddie' and would like to enjoy the fantastic tactics and strategy on my PS3 to the full extent my hardware permits. Thank you.

TLDR: Console camera control, pausing, and command issuing should NOT be nerfed on a console unless the hardware doesn't permit it. Great game and thanks for bringing it to the console!

If you switch it to the default setting, where you have to hold down the trigger, you can issue multiple commands instead of pausing for each individual tactic.

[JamesMoriarty123]

As long as a game isn't a lazy port it's always gonna be better on the PC. It's just a fact. Yes, I only have ever owned a PC and yes I have a distaste for consoles but you can't change the facts.

Playing any game except driving/fighting games on consoles is just folly. If I was forced to use a gamepad to play FPS I think I'd slit my wrists (or just give up gaming ), mouse and keyboard are just so much better. As for RTS, no contest. I don't think there are any TBS games on consoles and when it comes to RPG's, well, as Dragon Age proves, you can do more with the PC.

I'm sure some console fanboi's will flame me, that's ok. Everyone of my console fanboi friends that I've turned onto PC gaming and built them a nice rig has thanked me 100 times over after playing PC for a few months.

The sooner people realise PC gaming is the way forward, the better.

[Treylinn]

I HAS A FLAVOUR wrote...

If you switch it to the default setting, where you have to hold down the trigger, you can issue multiple commands instead of pausing for each individual tactic.

Thanks.  I did read that somewhere on the forum the other day.  I actually started the game that way but quickly found I didn't want to have to hold the trigger down continuously while thinking out strategy.  Perhaps now I am just being whiney but I want it so it works in the toggle/untoggle mode.

[Treylinn]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

As long as a game isn't a lazy port it's always gonna be better on the PC. It's just a fact. Yes, I only have ever owned a PC and yes I have a distaste for consoles but you can't change the facts.
Playing any game except driving/fighting games on consoles is just folly. If I was forced to use a gamepad to play FPS I think I'd slit my wrists (or just give up gaming ), mouse and keyboard are just so much better. As for RTS, no contest. I don't think there are any TBS games on consoles and when it comes to RPG's, well, as Dragon Age proves, you can do more with the PC.
I'm sure some console fanboi's will flame me, that's ok. Everyone of my console fanboi friends that I've turned onto PC gaming and built them a nice rig has thanked me 100 times over after playing PC for a few months.
The sooner people realise PC gaming is the way forward, the better.

I can understand you don't want PC gaming to die and I can appreciate that.  What I want is all the brilliance of PC gaming to show up on the console.  The main difference being the console has standardized hardware.  I think both the PC gamer that takes time to build and manage their own rig and the console gamer that wants an easy out of the box gaming experience should be able to enjoy the same type of games in the same way.  Consoles have already advanced to the point of getting patches and official mods, we're just missing the user-made content at this point.  If they come up with a peripheral that can mimic the mouse in some type of controller setup we'll be able to play RTS and BG type RPGs easily.

TBS games for consoles:  Endwar (PS3) and  Shattered Union (XBOX)  as well as Gladius (which I don't know what category that would fit in but it was an excellent tactical combat game for the XBOX.)

Modifié par Treylinn, 28 novembre 2009 - 03:34 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

Treylinn wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

As long as a game isn't a lazy port it's always gonna be better on the PC. It's just a fact. Yes, I only have ever owned a PC and yes I have a distaste for consoles but you can't change the facts.
Playing any game except driving/fighting games on consoles is just folly. If I was forced to use a gamepad to play FPS I think I'd slit my wrists (or just give up gaming ), mouse and keyboard are just so much better. As for RTS, no contest. I don't think there are any TBS games on consoles and when it comes to RPG's, well, as Dragon Age proves, you can do more with the PC.
I'm sure some console fanboi's will flame me, that's ok. Everyone of my console fanboi friends that I've turned onto PC gaming and built them a nice rig has thanked me 100 times over after playing PC for a few months.
The sooner people realise PC gaming is the way forward, the better.

I can understand you don't want PC gaming to die and I can appreciate that.  What I want is all the brilliance of PC gaming to show up on the console.  The main difference being the console has standardized hardware.  I think both the PC gamer that takes time to build and manage their own rig and the console gamer that wants an easy out of the box gaming experience should be able to enjoy the same type of games in the same way.  Consoles have already advanced to the point of getting patches and official mods, we're just missing the user-made content at this point.  If they come up with a peripheral that can mimic the mouse in some type of controller setup we'll be able to play RTS and BG type RPGs easily.

TBS games for consoles:  Endwar (PS3) and  Shattered Union (XBOX)  as well as Gladius (which I don't know what category that would fit in but it was an excellent tactical combat game for the XBOX.)

So basically, what you've just said is that consoles are becoming more and more like PC's. With patches, etc. 
Standardized hardware limits development. Look at Crysis. If we all had consoles that game wouldn't have saw the light of day, and it was amazing.
Too many console gamers get hung up on price. Brand new cost + extra cost for games + no internet and limited versatility all mean that getting a good PC isn't all that much more expensive.
PC gaming will not "die" as so many console fanboi's would like to think, PC's are the grandfather platform, where the advances are made.
What I hope for the future, although it probably won't happen, is that we see PC's becoming cheaper and smaller with an optional basic interface system for those that just want an out of the box game experience.

Speaking of console advances, sure there have been many since say the mega-drive, but in all fairness they're still basically 2nd rate game's machines. It's their one button ease of use that sells it.

If Microsoft actually put a fraction of the time, money and effort into enhancing PC gaming instead of pushing the 360 / XBOX LIVE envelope we'd see a great many more PC gamers I think.
But money talks and bull**** walks, console gamers are happy to fork over cash for a subscription for a sub-par (in PC terms, I mean Steam is just 100% better in every way) service that PC gamers have been getting free in eternum.
It all comes down to money in the end, which is sad...

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 28 novembre 2009 - 04:21 .

[Deathstyk85]

im usually a pc only gamer

but for this game, i too preffered the xbox version to the pc version

i would say console, but from what ive noticed, it runs smoother on the xbox than on the ps3

anyway, i like the set up, i like the controls, and i like the way it feels using the controller rather then a keyboard. maybe im just tired of feverishly tapping keys on a keyboard, or clicking on little icons

but i just find the controller to be more engaging, and i do like the way the camera works in the xbox version.

and yes i know the pc can "have a camera set up like the xbox"

but would you rather have something thats "like" an amazing pair of shoes, or an amazing pair of shoes? lol

but thats just personal preference and how i see it.

[Deathstyk85]

and to add

to james above me

i dont pay for xbox live, mostly because i was tired of playing the same two types of games online

but i do for some game prefer the xbox. wich is why i try to get a look at how both feel before i buy for one or the other, and in some cases, ill buy for both

but it isnt some huge "pc gamers, console gamers" divide. were all gamers here.

people just have different preferences on how to go about said gaming. you prefer your pc for your reasons, and i prefer the xbox for this game for my reasons.

theres no call for getting upset and shunning those "console gamer types"

although yeah i understand he kinda started it lol

at the same time, pcs wont die as a gaming medium any time soon either. they are used to make games, they are constantly changing, and they also have many other uses and are pretty much a household object now.

and one thing that might make consoles more appealing to some, is the fact that with a console, you dont have to ask yourself, "can my pc handle this game? id hate to buy it and it run slow and sloppy" with a console, if its made for that console, it works fine on that console. (unless your specific console happens to be messed up due to misuse or accident)

[JamesMoriarty123]

Deathstyk85 wrote...

and to add
to james above me
i dont pay for xbox live, mostly because i was tired of playing the same two types of games online
but i do for some game prefer the xbox. wich is why i try to get a look at how both feel before i buy for one or the other, and in some cases, ill buy for both
but it isnt some huge "pc gamers, console gamers" divide. were all gamers here.
people just have different preferences on how to go about said gaming. you prefer your pc for your reasons, and i prefer the xbox for this game for my reasons.
theres no call for getting upset and shunning those "console gamer types"
although yeah i understand he kinda started it lol
at the same time, pcs wont die as a gaming medium any time soon either. they are used to make games, they are constantly changing, and they also have many other uses and are pretty much a household object now.
and one thing that might make consoles more appealing to some, is the fact that with a console, you dont have to ask yourself, "can my pc handle this game? id hate to buy it and it run slow and sloppy" with a console, if its made for that console, it works fine on that console. (unless your specific console happens to be messed up due to misuse or accident)

Hey there, glad you didn't just flame me down
I understand some people prefer consoles and that's cool. I'm not altogether dismissing them as a gaming medium, I mean MGS was one of the best games I've ever played. Albeit it was on PS1 when my PC was broken many years ago.

Sometimes it's just frustrating to me to see a good PC game be ruined by being cross platform or turned into a console exclusive all because of some greedy corporate slug like Microsoft.

I mean HALO was first developed for the PC, until MS bought Bungie. I mean, I watched the trailer and I just saw a great game, a Half-Life beater, insead it got all messed up because of MS. That's kinda why I'm touchy on it.

You do make a great point about the whole "Can my PC run this?" thing. I build my own PC's, generally one every 2 years, and when I build em I spend about £700 on the base unit so I can be assured that for 2 years I won't need to spend any more cash on upgrades.
Part of the problem is poor knowledge and misinformation given out by PC retailers like PC World selling "package deals" that are basically sub-par systems billed to do what they actually cannot.
If you've built your own PC you know in advance whether or not it will or won't run a game, but I understand it can be frustrating if your PC knowledge isn't great.
I remember when I was a kid buying games like Loom and Command & Conquer and wondering if they were gonna work with my 4mb of RAM and my Pentium 80mhz, lol.And that was actually my 3rd PC!

It's a good debate anyway, but for another forum

[I HAS A FLAVOUR]

Treylinn wrote...

I HAS A FLAVOUR wrote...

If you switch it to the default setting, where you have to hold down the trigger, you can issue multiple commands instead of pausing for each individual tactic.

Thanks.  I did read that somewhere on the forum the other day.  I actually started the game that way but quickly found I didn't want to have to hold the trigger down continuously while thinking out strategy.  Perhaps now I am just being whiney but I want it so it works in the toggle/untoggle mode.

All good my friend!

I didn't like it either when I started, but I got used to it.  Main gripe would be when you want to back up to a previous character when your holding it down ha ha...instead I just cycle to them with my free finger on the other hand.

Minor complaint really.

[AshedMan]

Less options, lower quality graphics, poor interface, no tactical camera, and no player made mods... and you think the console version is superior? Is today opposite day?

[Qoatl]

It all depends on what you're used to. The camera controls would be fairly cumbersome on most laptops. If you haven't try connecting a regular mouse to your laptop and see if that helps. The other issue with camera control on the PC is that it doesn't stick to what have become conventions for similar games. When I first started playing, I kept using the wrong control for the camera, but this only lasted for a session or two. Now I am quite used to it and thankful for the more efficient interface offered by a mouse/keyboard combination and graphical improvements on the PC.

[Deathstyk85]

AshedMan wrote...

Less options, lower quality graphics, poor interface, no tactical camera, and no player made mods... and you think the console version is superior? Is today opposite day?

the interface is purely opinion, some people just like what they like
but im not sure if my tv is just awesome, but my xbox has shown similar quality to what ive seen on very good pcs.

the no player mods is a thing i was upset about. when i first heard about the toolset being released i thought "awesome i will get to download finished mods that people have made, and i will be able to maybe make some" i was poorly informed, and i assumed that it was also being released for the xbox(or atleast on pc but you could make mods for the xbox) so yes that was a huge dissapointment, and had i known that at time of purchase, i may have gone with the pc version instead. the no toolset thing is probably the only thing i have been upset about for my game.
then again, i may just swindle one of my co-workers into buying me the pc version for christmas so i can have access to all that goodness.
yeah i dont know why, but i assumed they would take it one step further, and have a section on xboxlive just for user added content when viewing the dlc content for this game. although in hindsight that would be "too much to ask" and could lead to all sorts of problems. so i should have known i wouldnt get any user made mods.

[ScotGaymer]

th3warr1or wrote...

Fable is better on console lol.

Okay you think Oblivion, F3, and Fable is better on console than PC.

You are officially banned from ever calling yourself a gamer ever again.

How can you say the Console version of Fable is better? The PC UI is SO much better, more intuitive, and you can install mods that slow the ridiculous aging process that is in Fable 1.
There are less bugs and weirdness in it as well. Its easier to get to grips with the combat also.

We must be playing completely different games in completely different universes...

Boy that doesnt bode well for the console version of DA:O.

Deathstyk85 wrote...

the interface is purely opinion, some people just like what they like
but im not sure if my tv is just awesome, but my xbox has shown similar quality to what ive seen on very good pcs. 

the no player mods is a thing i was upset about. when i first heard about the toolset being released i thought "awesome i will get to download finished mods that people have made, and i will be able to maybe make some" i was poorly informed, and i assumed that it was also being released for the xbox(or atleast on pc but you could make mods for the xbox) so yes that was a huge dissapointment, and had i known that at time of purchase, i may have gone with the pc version instead. the no toolset thing is probably the only thing i have been upset about for my game.
then again, i may just swindle one of my co-workers into buying me the pc version for christmas so i can have access to all that goodness. 
yeah i dont know why, but i assumed they would take it one step further, and have a section on xboxlive just for user added content when viewing the dlc content for this game. although in hindsight that would be "too much to ask" and could lead to all sorts of problems. so i should have known i wouldnt get any user made mods.

Im sure i seen someone say that Bioware are considering porting "the best" mods over to Xbox and PS3.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:02 .

[Vaelic76]

cool story bro