218 réponses à ce sujet

[Ronin1325]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

makalathbonagin wrote...

in any other game maybe, but this is character driven story no one in their right mind wanted shep to [REDACTED] after all that she/he has been through

Leaving Shepard around would invite people to protest Shepard's exclusion in future games if they don't like the new protagonist or worse, give Shepard the "Master Chief treatment" and keep dragging them back into the spotlight. This is best. For all of us. Just like Mr. Marshton.

I'm fine with them leaving Shepard's story at this point. If they wanted to go in another direction, I'm perfectly okay with that. Despite what some may think, I have NO problem with 'dark' endings! All I said with this post is that Bioware was disengenous with their advertising about how much influence we could have over the story. They said we'd have more influence in this game than any of the others, clearly that's not the case. So they should be held to account for what they pitched to us.

[Althix]

Reorte wrote...
Hell, if you want a realistic outcome, considering the numbers involved Shepard would probably have died on Eden Prime shortly after Jenkins.

no i just want some meat shield on a task to defend missles. because it was hard on 1st and second level of difficulty, and it's gonna be bad on "gold".

[KironDrayga]

In my opinion, the problem with the choices proffered in ME3 is that there are clear "good" and "evil" sides to every imagined conflict. I won't go into it here as I have no interest in disseminating spoilers, but I was disappointed in how clear-cut every major decision was. There were no shades of grey; the morally 'correct' decisions often rewarded you with the most War Assets.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Ronin1325 wrote...

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

makalathbonagin wrote...

in any other game maybe, but this is character driven story no one in their right mind wanted shep to [REDACTED] after all that she/he has been through

Leaving Shepard around would invite people to protest Shepard's exclusion in future games if they don't like the new protagonist or worse, give Shepard the "Master Chief treatment" and keep dragging them back into the spotlight. This is best. For all of us. Just like Mr. Marshton.

I'm fine with them leaving Shepard's story at this point. If they wanted to go in another direction, I'm perfectly okay with that. Despite what some may think, I have NO problem with 'dark' endings! All I said with this post is that Bioware was disengenous with their advertising about how much influence we could have over the story. They said we'd have more influence in this game than any of the others, clearly that's not the case. So they should be held to account for what they pitched to us.

I don't know what other game allows you to do THAT with THOSE at THAT TIME in THAT PLACE.

[SpiderFan1217]

Ronin1325 wrote...

I'm a longtime fan of your games, and I hate to say this, but you falsely advertised this game. You repeatedly & publicly stated that it would be the most open-ended and choice-driven game in the trilogy. It clearly is not. The anger that people are feeling over the ending is just a symptom of that. If nothing else a public apology for the false statements is in order.

This is your opinion, and your entitled to it. I feel they delivered on there claims. You have no right to claim that they should apologize.

[Wise Men]

The Last Guardian wrote...

What are you talking about? Held accountable? Yeah, held accountable for making a kickass game.

Agreed.  LOL!

[Deganis76]

Legion64 wrote...

How does anybody finish this game within 4 days? I have no free time!

Here here!  I've even had days off, but too many life and family responsibilities I guess. 

[Ronin1325]

Gigamantis wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

I'm a longtime fan of your games, and I hate to say this, but you falsely advertised this game. You repeatedly & publicly stated that it would be the most open-ended and choice-driven game in the trilogy. It clearly is not. The anger that people are feeling over the ending is just a symptom of that. If nothing else a public apology for the false statements is in order.

There can't really be a discussion about this until you provide a dated direct quote from them.  What exactly they said and when in development they said it is important in determining how "lied to" you were.

If anything I think this trend of trying to pick at pre-release hype is just a symptom of people being immensely butthurt over the ending.  In fact, I think a lot of the overblown, irrational criticism of this game is butthurt over the ending. 

I am not 'butthurt' by the ending. That's only a symptom to me. What you consider to be 'pre-release hype' I consider to be false advertising. If you bought a video card that claimed '5400 happy points of power' , but only had 2500 in reality, would you consider the maker of that card to be honest? Bioware made a big point of selling the game based on how much influence we would have on the game, throughout playing it. Ultimately none of our choices from all the games, make any real difference. THAT is false advertising.

No, everything in development is subject to change.  That's why you need a direct quote and a timestamp to even make the claim that it's false advertising.  You weren't promised anything, they just let you in on their goals for the game.  If you think they didn't accomplish that particular goal then say so, but leave your grade-school understanding of advertising fraud out of it. 

Grade School. Right. They said we'd have more choice than ever before. This game clearly negates all substatative choice. Given your attitude I doubt any hard proof would convince you, but how many, *exactly* how many quotes from print & spoken comments do I have to give to you, so that you will be convinced? 

[Trix-Rabbit]

Gotta love all the people in this thread who havent played the entire game or dont even have registered games defending ME3 endings.

@Gigamantis, Post your degree or gtfo. This info is posted all over the forums.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Trix-Rabbit wrote...

Gotta love all the people in this thread who havent played the entire game or dont even have registered games defending ME3 endings.

@Gigamantis, Post your degree or gtfo. This info is posted all over the forums.

My mother's boyfriend got it on PS3 and I been playing on his name.

I had to play in on Easy though. PS3 controls suck for me. I'm a 360 man.

[ncknck]

Super.Sid wrote...

Hey that false advertising has generated 3.5m sales 
http://www.vg247.com...lion-worldwide/

So they do realise that it worked well even if it meant non ethical to the rest of the community.

Im not sure if it is a well played irony, or worse. There is apparently a new trend in fake statistics. These are not sales numbers, this is a number of units sent to merchants. Could as just well send 100 billion million units. So far 1 million units were actually bought, not that it is bad, but 3.5 is a fake number.

Modifié par ncknck, 09 mars 2012 - 10:39 .

[Ronin1325]

@gigamantis-

Here's just a few, showing that player control over the story was (supposed to be) a primary aspect of the game-


Casey Hudson:

"That actually will be our goal with the whole trilogy. To take all of the things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let it go. Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions. That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in motion and now we can let them diverge. I'm not worried that people will play it and think 'Oh well I missed all of this content that would have been different if I had made other choices' because what that does is make you interested in replaying it. The replay value of Mass Effect 1 was huge, but Mass Effect 2 is much more so and I think it just continues into the conclusion of the trilogy."

Mass Effect 3: Your Choices Will Shape A Bigger, Better Ending To An Epic Trilogy

http://www.g4tv.com/...n-epic-trilogy/

Only two, I know, but I can come up with dozens more. And lest you think this is only early-game 'hype' even *after* the game was released, the false claim of player choice was being made-

Mac Walters- "There are two big things that separate our style of writing from all those mediums. That’s branching narratives. Of course, what I mean by that is narrative choices. But even in a context of a single conversation, there’s multiple paths for dialogue. We branch on choices and other ones you made in the past.

Player agency is the second one. We’re writing the story in the way that you have control of the story. It lets you discover the choices as a play."

March 7th 2012

"Control of the Story" But we don't have it, that's a false claim.

[gearseffect]

I agree with Ronin1325.

For me the endings were just salt in HUGE Open wounds that had already been there. The stupid Auto-Dialogue, destroyed much of what made ME1 and 2 so great. The whole game suffered from it. Characters felt bland and flat, I felt like the whole game was an out of body experience, and the game didn't tie up all loose ends for me, IN Fact it left me with some huge unresolved issues and heart broken, over many of the things I was never able to address with the Characters I'd built varying types of relationships with in ME1 and 2.

I feel cheated by Bioware. They consonantly reassured fans that ME3 would be a HUGE Payoff and all the choices we made in ME1 and 2 would show up in 3. The Relationships we had at the ending of ME3 with all the characters would be back, and all unresolved issues would be taken care of.
Jack was by far the worst example of how all this all failed.

I think BW needs to be held accountable for all of the lies and sh!t they did in ME3. I will hold them accountable by not buying anything ME3 or ME related from them after this.

I had a tremendous amount of respect for Casey, and I've now got no respect for him. Everything he says I'm gonna take it as a lie. He went and lied to the fans with his white smile all the time knowing that this was going on. I could never live with myself for lying to people like he did.

I'd rather stand up and go on camera and say "Ya know what all those sh!tty rumors online, well they're closer to the truth, and things are way worse in this game. The loyal fans from ME1 and ME2 are going to be upset, the whole game is gonna suck, everything is really bad. Imagine what ME3 would look like if it was as bad as Dietz book, now take that and make it way worse because it's the end to the series and it's not some side dish like the books, it's the main event, the BIG Product"
I'd rather do that and face the consequences of doing it, and try to gain the fans respect and maybe create big enough of an uproar to change things.

SO Yeah I think BW has earned all the hurt feelings and upset fans, and I think we have a right to express them in a level headed rational non threatening form. You god dang right I think We should be able to say that we are upset and express this all just like I did. There is no malice, or ill will being wished on anyone there are no threats of danger, there is just my rational level headed stand point being taken and expressed.

BW has done enough to upset the fans, they don't need to upset them any more by unleashing the ban hammer on fans for expressing the hurt and betrayal they have been dealt in ME3. Games are expensive to buy too.

[heisman45]

Two things.... Replay-ability was hurt I mean I just can't make myself play it again knowing that none of my choices effect anything. Second....this post is correct don't have a serious based completely on your choices and then make them not matter in the end. and now I'm afraid to play the Dragon Age series because well if I got screwed over again I'd have to murder people and thats just not good

[heisman45]

KironDrayga wrote...


In my opinion, the problem with the choices proffered in ME3 is that there are clear "good" and "evil" sides to every imagined conflict. I won't go into it here as I have no interest in disseminating spoilers, but I was disappointed in how clear-cut every major decision was. There were no shades of grey; the morally 'correct' decisions often rewarded you with the most War Assets.

The worst part is it just doesn't matter cause you get poned in the ending no matter how much time you waste building up assets. 

[andb52]

The ending was a real blow. It was incredibly disappointing and downright painful.

[f1ndmenow]

money is easy to grain but trust is something not easily regain

[Ronin1325]

After reading through the posts, I should make it clear again- I am NOT saying that ME3 is a 'bad' game (though it may be, that's a different issue). What I am saying is that Bioware was not honest in how they sold it to us. If they wanted to make a rip-roarin', well-written, linear Japanese-style RPG that is perfectly fine with me. But they should not have marketed the game to us as something where we would have any kind of control.

[heisman45]

Ronin1325 wrote...

After reading through the posts, I should make it clear again- I am NOT saying that ME3 is a 'bad' game (though it may be, that's a different issue). What I am saying is that Bioware was not honest in how they sold it to us. If they wanted to make a rip-roarin', well-written, linear Japanese-style RPG that is perfectly fine with me. But they should not have marketed the game to us as something where we would have any kind of control.

If you never reached the end of the game you'd probably say it was the best game in a very long time but alas the ending will probably cost it praise as the greatest series of games in our generation....and I like your post by the way if I knew of a way to kick there asses for what they did I would. And I agree there should be a public apology for ruining there game because they had some stupid idea. 

[Well]

Ronin1325 wrote...

@gigamantis-

Here's just a few, showing that player control over the story was (supposed to be) a primary aspect of the game-


Casey Hudson:

"That actually will be our goal with the whole trilogy. To take all of the things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let it go. Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions. That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in motion and now we can let them diverge. I'm not worried that people will play it and think 'Oh well I missed all of this content that would have been different if I had made other choices' because what that does is make you interested in replaying it. The replay value of Mass Effect 1 was huge, but Mass Effect 2 is much more so and I think it just continues into the conclusion of the trilogy."

Mass Effect 3: Your Choices Will Shape A Bigger, Better Ending To An Epic Trilogy

http://www.g4tv.com/...n-epic-trilogy/

Only two, I know, but I can come up with dozens more. And lest you think this is only early-game 'hype' even *after* the game was released, the false claim of player choice was being made-

Mac Walters- "There are two big things that separate our style of writing from all those mediums. That’s branching narratives. Of course, what I mean by that is narrative choices. But even in a context of a single conversation, there’s multiple paths for dialogue. We branch on choices and other ones you made in the past.

Player agency is the second one. We’re writing the story in the way that you have control of the story. It lets you discover the choices as a play."

March 7th 2012

"Control of the Story" But we don't have it, that's a false claim.

That hits the nail on the head.The player didn't have control of the game.They made a Spacebar game.Your choices really didn't matter.

[locsphere]

HI there we are bioware... Your three options at the end of the game are amazingly diverse. You can be come a martyr by Destroying all technology, Martyr by controlling the reapers, Or merging synthetic life by you guess it sacrificing yourself by you guessed it... Becoming a Martyr.

Whats that you don't want to die? You want to save the day and get the girl? No no no we are just going to rush the ending... By you know Re-rendering each scene with slight differences. Its cost effective and you still get your diverse choices.

THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS SARCASM FOR THOSE WHO CANT READ IT...

I love playing three games only to have my character killed off... LOVE IT!!!

[CitizenSnips]

So how are you going to "hold them to account"?

[Neroteyen]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

So how are you going to "hold them to account"?

Easy. I will no longer purchse BW products till there is a fix to the ME 3 ending. And I'm sure you'll say yeah right etc. Your choice. In the end Im HUGELY pissed off and frankly BW has broken faith with thier fans ion this. Therefore my $$ will remain in my pocket. This will change and i will once again buy from them if they fix this. Sooner rather than later but ill take what i can get. Either way they need to address this ASAP as ignoring it will just add to the fire

[gabe2gg]

Well wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

@gigamantis-

Here's just a few, showing that player control over the story was (supposed to be) a primary aspect of the game-


Casey Hudson:

"That actually will be our goal with the whole trilogy. To take all of the things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let it go. Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions. That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in motion and now we can let them diverge. I'm not worried that people will play it and think 'Oh well I missed all of this content that would have been different if I had made other choices' because what that does is make you interested in replaying it. The replay value of Mass Effect 1 was huge, but Mass Effect 2 is much more so and I think it just continues into the conclusion of the trilogy."

Mass Effect 3: Your Choices Will Shape A Bigger, Better Ending To An Epic Trilogy

http://www.g4tv.com/...n-epic-trilogy/

Only two, I know, but I can come up with dozens more. And lest you think this is only early-game 'hype' even *after* the game was released, the false claim of player choice was being made-

Mac Walters- "There are two big things that separate our style of writing from all those mediums. That’s branching narratives. Of course, what I mean by that is narrative choices. But even in a context of a single conversation, there’s multiple paths for dialogue. We branch on choices and other ones you made in the past.

Player agency is the second one. We’re writing the story in the way that you have control of the story. It lets you discover the choices as a play."

March 7th 2012

"Control of the Story" But we don't have it, that's a false claim.

That hits the nail on the head.The player didn't have control of the game.They made a Spacebar game.Your choices really didn't matter.

I'm not surprised Bioware lied, ever since EA came into the picture things have been looking shady.

[Reorte]

andb52 wrote...

The ending was a real blow. It was incredibly disappointing and downright painful.

Which would be a great thing if you knew that you could've done better if only you'd tried a bit (or a lot) harder. In reality there's always some chance that you could've done better, no matter how difficult it would've been. That gives you something to strive towards. If it took an incredibly skillful player to get a better ending, having made only exactly the right choices all through the trilogy, that would've been perfect. If I ended up with these endings and it turned out that I should've done something differently back in ME1 I would've been really impressed.

A secondary dissapointment is, of course, that making a complete mess of everything couldn't ever result in an even worse, more depressing ending.