218 réponses à ce sujet

[locsphere]

Synthetics will kill all organic life... Geth Made peace with Quarians... Quarians made peace with Geth.... EDI and Joker are dating... I see what he means. Definititly. Doesn't contradict the whole game at all.....

[Reorte]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Again, there is closure. You're just not pleased with it, given the route taken. I can understand your frustration, but it's obviously not due to something you don't know; it's due to what you know and don't like about it. I'm justifying a person's right to interpret a narrative how they wish; your interpretation doesn't rule supreme here. Alot of people don't like it, but alot of people also do. That's undeniable.

As far as I can see vastly more people don't like it than do, even if you take into account the fact that the ones who don't are more likely to be more vocal.

[AkiKishi]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Again, there is closure. You're just not pleased with it, given the route taken. I can understand your frustration, but it's obviously not due to something you don't know; it's due to what you know and don't like about it. I'm justifying a person's right to interpret a narrative how they wish; your interpretation doesn't rule supreme here. Alot of people don't like it, but alot of people also do. That's undeniable.

Thats not closure it's stupid "space magic" followed by distasteful implications.

[Well]

gabe2gg wrote...

Well wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

@gigamantis-

Here's just a few, showing that player control over the story was (supposed to be) a primary aspect of the game-


Casey Hudson:

"That actually will be our goal with the whole trilogy. To take all of the things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let it go. Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions. That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in motion and now we can let them diverge. I'm not worried that people will play it and think 'Oh well I missed all of this content that would have been different if I had made other choices' because what that does is make you interested in replaying it. The replay value of Mass Effect 1 was huge, but Mass Effect 2 is much more so and I think it just continues into the conclusion of the trilogy."

Mass Effect 3: Your Choices Will Shape A Bigger, Better Ending To An Epic Trilogy

http://www.g4tv.com/...n-epic-trilogy/

Only two, I know, but I can come up with dozens more. And lest you think this is only early-game 'hype' even *after* the game was released, the false claim of player choice was being made-

Mac Walters- "There are two big things that separate our style of writing from all those mediums. That’s branching narratives. Of course, what I mean by that is narrative choices. But even in a context of a single conversation, there’s multiple paths for dialogue. We branch on choices and other ones you made in the past.

Player agency is the second one. We’re writing the story in the way that you have control of the story. It lets you discover the choices as a play."

March 7th 2012

"Control of the Story" But we don't have it, that's a false claim.

That hits the nail on the head.The player didn't have control of the game.They made a Spacebar game.Your choices really didn't matter.

I'm not surprised Bioware lied, ever since EA came into the picture things have been looking shady.

If you look at last few games it was just bogus hype.I think in the long run it will hurt them.If it is because of EA it could be but I don't believe that it is just them.BW has to take some of the hit.It is their reputation at stake.So I can't see them not having some control.I been a fan since BG 1 came out but no more.

[AkiKishi]

Well wrote...

gabe2gg wrote...

Well wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

@gigamantis-

Here's just a few, showing that player control over the story was (supposed to be) a primary aspect of the game-


Casey Hudson:

"That actually will be our goal with the whole trilogy. To take all of the things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let it go. Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions. That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in motion and now we can let them diverge. I'm not worried that people will play it and think 'Oh well I missed all of this content that would have been different if I had made other choices' because what that does is make you interested in replaying it. The replay value of Mass Effect 1 was huge, but Mass Effect 2 is much more so and I think it just continues into the conclusion of the trilogy."

Mass Effect 3: Your Choices Will Shape A Bigger, Better Ending To An Epic Trilogy

http://www.g4tv.com/...n-epic-trilogy/

Only two, I know, but I can come up with dozens more. And lest you think this is only early-game 'hype' even *after* the game was released, the false claim of player choice was being made-

Mac Walters- "There are two big things that separate our style of writing from all those mediums. That’s branching narratives. Of course, what I mean by that is narrative choices. But even in a context of a single conversation, there’s multiple paths for dialogue. We branch on choices and other ones you made in the past.

Player agency is the second one. We’re writing the story in the way that you have control of the story. It lets you discover the choices as a play."

March 7th 2012

"Control of the Story" But we don't have it, that's a false claim.

That hits the nail on the head.The player didn't have control of the game.They made a Spacebar game.Your choices really didn't matter.

I'm not surprised Bioware lied, ever since EA came into the picture things have been looking shady.

If you look at last few games it was just bogus hype.I think in the long run it will hurt them.If it is because of EA it could be but I don't believe that it is just them.BW has to take some of the hit.It is their reputation at stake.So I can't see them not having some control.I been a fan since BG 1 came out but no more.

EA are desperate for Bioware to get into the big leagues. ME3's sales day 1 were just under a million. Which is good, but not compared to the biggest selling games. Whether ME3 goes the way of DA2 remains to be seen. That had very good pre-orders and initial sales then fell off a cliff.

If Bioware don't do it with ME3 I don't believe they ever will and they get more and more toxic with each release.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 mars 2012 - 11:56 .

[f1ndmenow]

Bioware as much as I liked you, you did lie about multiple conclusion and further more knowing there is no payoff lacks what you call replay value.

[dmljr]

The only thing they need to be held accountable for is the lack of selecting import choices when starting a non-imported game.

They said that which endings were available would be determined by your import choices, which is true. But they also said people who don't import a save would be able to see them all, which is not.

[aries1001]

Mass Effect games have never been or will never be true open ended games like Skyrim or KO:A: Reckoning or the Fallout games. Mass Effect games are built on what Bioware does best, character development and story. And it seems, at least for the ME games, also now combat and gameplay.

As for endings my general comment on them is that they seem to be heavily inspired by a) the matrix games + the Terminator games, especially the last Terminator: Rise of the Machines, Babylon 5 seems to have been an inspiration as well and c) Star Trek+ Star Wars maybe served as an inspiration as well. And for at least one of the endings it seems inspired by how PS:Torment ended. Every game seems to want to have the same ending as PS: Torment these days, but in PS: Torment the ending made sense in the context of the game.

As for choices made in ME1 and ME2 not counting in ME3, I have seen at least one and maybe 2-5 threads (or posts) that complain about this. If you read some of the reviews they also mention this, your choices in ME1 and ME2 affects how many galatic readiness points you get? or is that war assets? (sorry, don't have the game - reason: small financial problem) This seems to be be very big consequences to your choices made in both ME1 and ME2.

It seems to me that Bioware has more to come for ME3, and that the questions will get answered in due time. I see this as maybe a decision from the someone in charge to not let the game start with the trial of Shepard, but with more of an action sequence, in which Shepard were being summoned to explain himself. And then the Reapers came. Maybe just maybe, Bioware has made endings to the game that to some of us - made sense. But then somehow a lead executive decided that 'no, we need to rework the opening' and as consequence of this the endings as well.'

I'm just guessing here, or making an observation, but it isn't unsual for a game to go through a development process when things change or get cut - a lot. I once compared game development to that of writing a book or even a term or thesis paper. You might have great ideas, but in the end, you'll need to focus on what subject is going to be and leave the questions at the end to get answered another day - or in Bioware's case, in dlcs, expansions or in another game alltogether.

[G3rman]

Headcanon will be your friend when it comes to endings.

[Reorte]

aries1001 wrote...

As for choices made in ME1 and ME2 not counting in ME3, I have seen at least one and maybe 2-5 threads (or posts) that complain about this. If you read some of the reviews they also mention this, your choices in ME1 and ME2 affects how many galatic readiness points you get? or is that war assets? (sorry, don't have the game - reason: small financial problem) This seems to be be very big consequences to your choices made in both ME1 and ME2.

They don't though, do they? At the end of the day non of the final destinations are sufficiently different to make most people think "I really wish I'd saved / killed the rachni or kept / destroyed the Collector base" and so on.

[AkiKishi]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Thats not closure it's stupid "space magic" followed by distasteful implications.

"Space magic?" Clearly, that point's moot given the entire context of the series, last I checked. Can we have a more substantial criticism, please? You don't like the ending, which is perfectly fine. I don't like parts of it, but for teleological reasons. Lastly, "distasteful implications"? I think the larger implications of Shepard's accomplishment for the galaxy are far more valuable. Expecting an airy fairy tale ending is far more distasteful, not that I think something close to this would be impossible, because I think it could've been.

"Space Magic" is all that ending deserves. Hey if you think a rip off Deus Ex makes for a good ending to the Mass Effect trilogy I'm thrilled for you.

[Therefore_I_Am]

The ending was very disappointing in that it was vague and just flat out didn't make sense for those that have actually played through last 2 games and paid attention to the plot.... especially the plot of the first game... Also, the endings of ME3 make all of your past choices null & void.
I remember Mr. Hudson saying there were going to be many different outcomes to Shepard's story, (12 or 15 I think it was?) each with it's own ending. That didn't happen, and the ending seemed very rushed; there were many questions that needed to be answered, but shep never gets to have the option to ask.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 10 mars 2012 - 12:15 .

[Ronin1325]

Neroteyen wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

So how are you going to "hold them to account"?

Easy. I will no longer purchse BW products till there is a fix to the ME 3 ending. And I'm sure you'll say yeah right etc. Your choice. In the end Im HUGELY pissed off and frankly BW has broken faith with thier fans ion this. Therefore my $$ will remain in my pocket. This will change and i will once again buy from them if they fix this. Sooner rather than later but ill take what i can get. Either way they need to address this ASAP as ignoring it will just add to the fire

Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm no lawyer. But even if I was, and could afford it, I wouldn't want to use legal force. I want EA/Bioware to publicly apologize, not ruin them. Bioware worked hard on this series. But they messed up, big time, and should fess up. How can I make them? I'm just one of those NPC shlubs that gets whacked in Scene 3, so it's not like I have any special powers or resources. Public protest is all I've (We've?) got.

[Reorte]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Within the context of the Mass Effect Universe, it makes perfect sense. If you want to believe in sentient machines capable of wiping out entire galactic civilizations, I can't see how the events that happen are any less possible to believe in - you can't cherrypick here. 

Clearly you didn't pay attention to when I clearly said there were elements of the ending I didn't like.

Is it within the context of the ME universe though? There's a lot of room between absolute reality and some of it is fantasy and therefore anything goes.

[Ronin1325]

I appreciate everyone's comments, including those who politely disagree with me. But we need to be more careful about where this thread goes. Funny as it may sound given this thread topic, I still want to respect their rules about spoilers.

[sorentoft]

locsphere wrote...

Synthetics will kill all organic life... Geth Made peace with Quarians... Quarians made peace with Geth.... EDI and Joker are dating... I see what he means. Definititly. Doesn't contradict the whole game at all.....

Really made me facepalm as well. Could they at least have come up with something better? I don't care if it is an extra-galactic invasion or just because they like reproducing but seriously... <_< Not even any dialogue with Harbinger. 

[Reorte]

[quote]Urdnot Grim wrote...

[quote]Reorte wrote...

[q
[/quote]
Is it within the context of the ME universe though? There's a lot of room between absolute reality and some of it is fantasy and therefore anything goes.

[/quote]

Yes, I'd say it was. Clearly from the beginning, players are introduced to the concept of mass relays and other forms of space travel; kinetic shields - which are impossible in real life; the lazarus project; etc. The MacGuffin in ME3 is also outlined quite clearly from the beginning; in order for it to not make sense, it would have to have miraculously been discovered at the last minute. This isn't the case, seeing as this plot device is something driving much of the plot.

Also, even fantasy literature has certain rules and conditions within the respective fiction. In ME3's case, certain aspects simply aren't that scientific.

[/quote]
That's going to be true for a lot of science fiction, e.g. Star Trek has its transporters and warp drives. They need to establish early on what's their magic and where the known rules of the universe still apply. Mass Effect's exception is what can be achieved with eezo; other things, such as AI, are extrapolations of current knowledge. Straying beyond what either establishes loses suspension of disbelief. How far you can go without crossing that obviously varies from person to person; FWIW the ME3 MacGuffin possibly doesn't fail in that respect from my point of view, but it does fail from being a bit to deus ex machina (i.e. I disagree with it being outlined from the beginning, although admittedly my knowledge is incomplete having being too put off ME3 to play it).

[f1ndmenow]

You also kinda said it won't end like lost and give us clarification. Bioware it's one thing kill off a main character but it's a whole other argument when nothing makes actual sense. Sorry but as the stand point of a fan it lacks logic and in the stand point of a writer it lacks anything meaningful. yes it did not end like lost, it began like lost 

Modifié par f1ndmenow, 10 mars 2012 - 01:09 .