52 réponses à ce sujet

[Anthadlas]

Arokel wrote...
Deus ex Machina is being saved just in the knick of time by a god-like being, device, or ability that was never hinted at before.

So the Crucible not working and not knowing how it solve it and then suddenly being told how it works from some ancient little kid god who controls the reapers doesn't fit that?

Modifié par Wraith 02, 09 mars 2012 - 07:27 .

[girres42]

Icesong wrote...

girres42 wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I don't mind the existence of the Crucible and frankly I was expecting something like this.

I'm with you. You could see this coming miles away right? I don't know if there is a name for this.. I am not as well read as some of you guys but in sci-fi when there is an "undefeatable" enemy they always have to find some bullcrap way to get the "mother brain" like I, Robot or Independence Day. (I REALLY wish I could think of better examples!) You could tell that was coming since the first game. I really wouldn't consider it a Deus Ex Machina.

Hey... something just occured to me. Wasn't the end of The Stand a Deus Ex Machina? Literally?

http://tvtropes.org/.../MasterComputer

Thanks. You rule. 

"
Largely a Discredited Trope today due to the growth of networks and multiply redundant systems; and, maybe, due to the fall of the Soviet Union, that simply loved centralized everything. "

[bpzrn]

Militarized wrote...

It's still a horrible, weaksauce last minute plot device from, I can only assume lazy writing and no thought.

Yep

[bpzrn]

Militarized wrote...

It's still a horrible, weaksauce last minute plot device from, I can only assume lazy writing and no thought.

Agree

[SLonergan]

RiouHotaru wrote...

 The Crucible, and the Catalyst, are NOT Deus Ex Machinas.

People really, REALLY need to stop using that word, because it's clear you don't know what it means.
The term "Deus Ex Machina" came from Greek plays and tragedies where, usually at the very end of the performance, one of the gods would literally come from off-stage, wrap up ALL the remaining plot points and solves everyone's problems, before disappearing and ending the play.

Neither the Crucible nor the Catalyst fit this definition.  The Crucible is introduced at the very beginning and built upon, as is the Catalyst.  That the Catalyst isn't what people thought it was is irrelevant.  The only way for the Crucible to become a DEM is for it to have never been in the game at all, and it suddenly pops in out of nowhere in the last five minutes and fixes everything.

Which it clearly doesn't.

You just proved the point you're trying to oppose.

You don't hear a single thing about The Crucible or The Catalyst until Mass Effect 3. Which is the end of the trilogy.

It's Deus Ex Machina.

[SLonergan]

If you consider Mass Effect 3 to be a self contained story, then yes. Technically the Crucible/Catalyst isn't Deus Ex Machina.

But the Mass Effect Story spans 3 games. The crucible/catalyst wasn't even mentioned in the slightest in the first two parts.

[SovereignWillReturn]

Lol, ME3 is a Deus Ex.

Literally, have you played Deus Ex?

*Pa tum pish*

[humes spork]

SLonergan wrote...

You just proved the point you're trying to oppose.

You don't hear a single thing about The Crucible or The Catalyst until Mass Effect 3. Which is the end of the trilogy.

It's Deus Ex Machina.

Well, to be more accurate the Crucible isn't really deus ex machina. It's a macguffin. You can justifiably argue the same of the Catalyst, given its midgame reveal and late-game mission arc to retrieve it.

The Guardian is undeniable to be deus ex machina to any reasonable person, though.

[Cody211282]

Oh ya it is, the last 5 minutes comes out of nowhere with solutions we didn't even hear about until right then, and was resolved because of a magic star child that was never seen until then.
If that's not DEM I don't know what is.

[Sundance31us]

Perhaps...

Catalyst = The Chessmaster

http://tvtropes.org/.../TheChessmaster

[SyyRaaaN]

Naw =) He reads wikipedia. Why should your interpretation prevail over the others? Your not building up a case. However, i don't necessarily agree that the Crucible is a deus ex machina. Its something worse than that.

It's a poorly done plot with so many plot holes, unexplained things. Its basically non-explained plot. While we run around gathering races, blalba, doing what we actually expected to do - Hacket builds a death star within 1 month? The entire crucible plot is just a big question mark. Only way to use that plot would be to make the story be only about it.

[humes spork]

Cody211282 wrote...

Oh ya it is, the last 5 minutes comes out of nowhere with solutions we didn't even hear about until right then, and was resolved because of a magic star child that was never seen until then.
If that's not DEM I don't know what is.

To be fair, destroy was kind of the culmination and goal of the entire trilogy. Control was heavily foreshadowed as early as the suicide mission. Merge came completely out of nowhere but at least fits with the themes of transhumanism and conflict between organics and synthetics.

The convenience of the three endings, with the contrivance and ability to freely choose regardless of previous choices (except for being locked out of merge due to low EMS), along with the last-moment reveal of the Guardian and instant resolution to the trilogy's dramatic question, devolve all that to deus ex machina though.

[humes spork]

Sundance31us wrote...

Perhaps...

Catalyst = The Chessmaster

http://tvtropes.org/.../TheChessmaster

I actually don't think you can qualify the Guardian as that. It's my belief the Guardian is actually a VI that can't overcome the paradox of organic-synthetic conflict, leaving synthetic races with no purpose, and being unable to self-determinate.

[Kronner]

I agree with OP. Lair of The Shadowbroker hinted at something Prothean that could beat the Reapers.

[xtorma]

If the protheans were building the crucible , but did not complete it in time. Wonder why the vi on ilos didn't tell shepard about it.

[Anthadlas]

xtorma wrote...

If the protheans were building the crucible , but did not complete it in time. Wonder why the vi on ilos didn't tell shepard about it.

Stop being sensible or logical

[OblivionDawn]

Exactly, there is no Deus ex Machina. You knew about the Crucible from the beginning and you use it to win in the end.

As for the Catalyst, he doesn't save anyone, he simply introduces you to your options and lets you finish using the Crucible.

No Deus ex Machina there.

[Drake_Hound]

It is not a DEUS EX MACHINA , cause we all knew shepard going to die ..
So unless you either totally blind or confused , you knew it was coming.

The problem is that people expected a miracle or a deus ex machina, the ride into the sunset ending. That didn´t happen .

But it is fine people can throw fancy words around , without ever understand the word .

[Ianamus]

The endings are full of ass pull's on the writers part. The normandy randomly flying off for no reason is probably the worst offender, but the purpose of the Reapers is as well. With all the Dark Matter hints in the previous game we hear some rubbish about them being there to stop the threat of AI's? Even with the very sympathetic Geth/EDI in ME2 proving that synthetic and Organic life can co-exist? Talk about a backtrack. 

Don't even get me started on two of you Squadmates randomly teleporting to the normandy at the end, Liara being in nearly everbody's flashbacks instead of their LI and the way they handled Tali's face. Talk about They just didn't care.

Drake_Hound wrote...

It is not a DEUS EX MACHINA , cause we all knew shepard going to die ..
So unless you either totally blind or confused , you knew it was coming.

The problem is that people expected a miracle or a deus ex machina, the ride into the sunset ending. That didn´t happen .

But it is fine people can throw fancy words around , without ever understand the word .

 

What rubbish. There is a blatant deus ex machina and it does save the galaxy. People are mad because of the complete ass pull of the normandy randomly flying into the middle of nowhere, just to (theoretically) set up a future game. 

And your first sentence "It is not a deus ex machina, becuase we all knew Shepard was going to die" makes no sense and implies that you are the one "throwing around the fancy term" without understanding what it means. 

Modifié par EJ107, 09 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[Militarized]

Wraith 02 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

If the protheans were building the crucible , but did not complete it in time. Wonder why the vi on ilos didn't tell shepard about it.

Stop being sensible or logical

This 

[ukd]

seriously, a god like being literally descends and forces you to wrap up the outcome of the entire series in one clumsy shovel-slap.

How in the heck is that NOT?

[SovereignWillReturn]

Militarized wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

If the protheans were building the crucible , but did not complete it in time. Wonder why the vi on ilos didn't tell shepard about it.

Stop being sensible or logical

This 

Lol'd.

He also forgot to mention Prothy on Eden Prime, or the Citadel being the catalyst.

[RiouHotaru]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

If the protheans were building the crucible , but did not complete it in time. Wonder why the vi on ilos didn't tell shepard about it.

Stop being sensible or logical

This 

Lol'd.

He also forgot to mention Prothy on Eden Prime, or the Citadel being the catalyst.

Because the researchers on Illos likely weren't working on the Crucible.  They were focused on sabotaging the next Reaper cycle.

[Anthadlas]

RiouHotaru wrote...

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

If the protheans were building the crucible , but did not complete it in time. Wonder why the vi on ilos didn't tell shepard about it.

Stop being sensible or logical

This 

Lol'd.

He also forgot to mention Prothy on Eden Prime, or the Citadel being the catalyst.

Because the researchers on Illos likely weren't working on the Crucible.  They were focused on sabotaging the next Reaper cycle.

Surely letting the next cycle know how to kill them would have been a massive help

[Sundance31us]

Vigil: "We severed all communication with the outside and our facility went dark. The personnel retreated underground into these achieves. To conserve resources everyone was put into cryogenic stasis. I was programmed to monitor the facility and wake the staff when the danger had passed..."


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