80 réponses à ce sujet

[Kantham]

Relevant

I'm glad we agree on this, OP. There's too many snipers than there should be overall, reducing the player's effectiveness in combat. 

[Esperys]

vespy wrote...

The friends that I play with don't play biotics, so I can't setup biotic combos at all.

Stasis + grenades works very well too, but the players I play with are fps veterans who enjoy shooting more than "spamming" abilities. Shrug.

I'm not saying there is no reason to play anything else, or this is the best thing ever, but I am trying to refute the point that any class other than infiltrator with a sniper rifle is bad. 

At the end of the day, spike damage is far better than sustained dps on the majority of targets, and sniper rifles provide that in abundance.

I would prefer a carnifex, but I don't have one yet, or a graal spike thrower. But again, those are EXACTLY the same concept, except in different weight/range/accuracy ratios. The concept of cc+quick kills.

The mantis is the first readily available weapon that provides this. The early pistols are pretty lacking, and the early shotguns cannot charge and do not do enough damage.

Your friends don't need bioitics. You could set up your own combos if your cooldowns weren't so horrible from foolishly equiping sniper rifles on adepts. Just saying.

[vespy]

Or i could you know, shoot them in the head and that would be the end of that.

Also I play a vanguard, not an adept.

Also as I stated before, with weight capacity and using a mantis, your power cd's are only about 50% longer than maxed cd reduction. When you factor in the dps loss from skill animation as opposed to shooting, you really don't lose much at all.

You seem to be under the impression that if an adept isn't spamming skills, he/she isn't doing anything at all. You think that the person carrying the sniper rifle is just derping around during the "significantly increased" cooldown duration.

I get one shot off per stasis. Thats pretty good in my book. And the cd is just right.

Choosing the widow or javelin as comparison is pretty hilarious, as noone should be using that weapon on golds, and noone should use it on silvers except for infiltrators. They are either overkill or underkill, and that is wasted dps.

[Riot Inducer]

Thenlar wrote...

Human Soldiers can actually abuse Adrenalin Rush to insta-reload the M-98 Widow.

Scope, shoot-rush-shoot. With weight capacity maxed, and the -20% all weight talent, I've had good success with this paired with a weight-modded SMG for backup. ARush lasts long enough to reload and fire another shot under the boosted damage as well.

So that's what those soldiers bringing just a mantis are on about. I had no idea AR increased reload speed as well.

[Blissey1]

DCko wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

DCko wrote...

Asari Adepts have to resort to a mantis or other sniper rifles because they prob don't have a carnifex, paladin, or any other handgun that compliments stasis boom headshot.

So work as a team. Stasis then go throw someone else so another teammate can take the shot instead. An Asari with a sniper rifle, especially a Mantis, gimps the team out of serious crowd control abilities.

LOL. Yes, because the asari adept is ONLY good at crowd control.

no, they're good at biotic explosion too. Which is also gimped by carying a heavy weapon.

Riot Inducer wrote...

Thenlar wrote...

Human Soldiers can actually abuse Adrenalin Rush to insta-reload the M-98 Widow.

Scope, shoot-rush-shoot. With weight capacity maxed, and the -20% all weight talent, I've had good success with this paired with a weight-modded SMG for backup. ARush lasts long enough to reload and fire another shot under the boosted damage as well.

So that's what those soldiers bringing just a mantis are on about. I had no idea AR increased reload speed as well. 

 
it's not increased reload speed, it's "when you use AR, you automagically get a full clip in the chamber". Which, incidentally, also makes it good for continuous unloading with an AR.

[vespy]

Blissey1 wrote...
it's not increased reload speed, it's "when you use AR, you automagically get a full clip in the chamber". Which, incidentally, also makes it good for continuous unloading with an AR.

Its not magic. Your adrenaline makes you so buff, you just put your lips to the gun and suck out the heat, letting it fire again.

[Esperys]

vespy wrote...

Or i could you know, shoot them in the head and that would be the end of that.

Also I play a vanguard, not an adept.

Also as I stated before, with weight capacity and using a mantis, your power cd's are only about 50% longer than maxed cd reduction. When you factor in the dps loss from skill animation as opposed to shooting, you really don't lose much at all.

You seem to be under the impression that if an adept isn't spamming skills, he/she isn't doing anything at all. You think that the person carrying the sniper rifle is just derping around during the "significantly increased" cooldown duration.

I get one shot off per stasis. Thats pretty good in my book. And the cd is just right.

Choosing the widow or javelin as comparison is pretty hilarious, as noone should be using that weapon on golds, and noone should use it on silvers except for infiltrators. They are either overkill or underkill, and that is wasted dps.

Every vanguard I've played so far has benefited more from low cool downs and being up close. Your 1 shot with a sniper rifle is comparitively useless, when you take what you're losing into account.

One shot per stasis. When your lower cool down would let you charge a stasis'd enemy, causing a biotic explosion, and thus trapping all enemies around them.

But that's just asari vanguard. The drell needs to get in close to make full use of his grenades, keep a low cool down for pull+charge, take advantage of their superior melee, etc.

You might -think- your one headshot and one stasis every 7-10 seconds is great! And through that tunnel vision scope, I'm sure it appears that way. But in a -team- game? The asari (adept/vanguard) is going to be more useful with a lighter weapon. 

[xSolclaim]

The Javelin and widow is great on an infil even on gold. especialy with any team play, anything that starts with no shields or is un-shielded, means a kill. And it damage speced cloak headshots do incredible damage on Atlas,Brutes,Ravagers, and banshees. Its not hard t 4 shot an atlas mech. or brutes. with leveled guns the weight isn't horrible, and I don't really spam powers anyways.

[FreyarS]

All Engineers fighting under the joint-effort of [my dimension's] Alliance Defense are not permitted to use Sniper Rifles.

[vespy]

Trapping all enemies around them? Do you know what a stasis bubble does?

Also stasis is more on a 5 second cd. I get a shot off every 3-5 seconds. Stasis lasts easily 10 seconds or so.

Charge is not a "use on cd" ability. You will not always want to charge what you stasis. There are very few times on gold where you want to charge offensively. A sniper rifle or similarly high powered weapon provides the same damage with minimal effort and much lower risk.

Also pull does not work on things with shields. Pull + charge also takes about 4 seconds to pull off, puts you in the middle of a dangerous situation, and isn't usable all of the time. I maintain that the asari kit is generally superior. Every team has a use for stasis. Not so much for pull or grenades.

Also as far as I recall grenades do not take cd into consideration nor do they have really a range requirement if you know how to arc them.

I've stated before that I would prefer to use a carnifex. Do I have one? In the demo yes, but not so lucky so far. Does everyone who plays a vanguard have one? No. Does everyone have a mantis? You bet your ass. I'm not saying that sniper rifles are optimal. I'm saying not everyone that uses one is dumb, or that they're bad, or that they don't contribute to a team.

Please dispel this myth about sniper rifles making you unable to use skills. The mantis is a very acceptable weight. The widow is almost TWICE AS HEAVY, so stop using that for comparison.

Furthermore, a lvl 1 vanguard can use a sniper rifle effectively in silvers (kinda in golds, but i wouldn't try it), while a lvl 1 vanguard trying to charge is laughable.

So if you're just starting out, the mantis + conservative use of non charge abilities is great. It might not feel like a vanguard, and thats a playstyle difference.

You also seem to be under the impression that skills have no cooldown when you're not using a sniper rifle. This is also not true.

You will, if you consistently spam on cd, use skills 50% more often without a sniper rifle, than you would with a very light pistol or smg or equivalent. With stasis having a relatively long cd, that means you are getting one skill off between "stasis" cds. Between animations and aim time, you get 1 shot with carni + 1 skill, or 2 shots with carni, or 1 shot with the mantis.

The difference is small.

[mysticforce42]

It really depends on what difficulty you are playing on, and the level of your character.

Level: If I'm playing a lvl 1-8 character, then I'd be using a weapon I'm most comfortable with. At such low levels, your powers have not fully developed and you get far more bang for your buck if you 1) can aim and 2) have good weapons. Asari Adept with a Widow? Sure. Drell Vanguard with a Widow? Why not. Human Engineer with a Claymore AND a Widow? Knock yourself out. Your weapons far outshine your skills at this stage with very few exceptions.

Difficulty: On Bronze it hardly matters what people use. As long as you can kill things at a decent speed and therefore finish missions within 25 min then it doesn't matter if you want to play a melee Adept with a Revenent.

On Silver you have to excercise a little bit of common sense and play to your strengths.

On Gold, please don't show up with a Turian Sentinel rocking a Black Widow...mostly because I haven't unlocked it yet >.>

[Esperys]

I think mystic gets it.

As for the question: Do I know what stasis does? Yes. The better question is do you know what biotic detonations do? -That- is an adept playing to it's strengths. With stasis + throw (with cool down reset evolution) you can pour out excellent CC and AoE damage. More than your occasional sniper shot will net you. Using a lighter gun does not only mean your throw comes sooner after the stasis (increasing the chances of a detonation before a teammate knocks the enemies out of stasis) it also insures that you can immediately re-stasis a different group once that initial detonation has gone off (a detonation that in itself has wrecked havoc on anyone near it's initial target). This works on -all- difficulties because detonations scale by percentage with enemy HP, something your poor rifle/weapon damage modifiers isn't going to do. At the speed in which you can pump out these powers and combos, taking time to line up, fire, and reload a sniper rifle is a complete waste even if the cooldown difference wasn't even an issue.

tl;dr: A sniper rifle on an adept (especially asari), especially on higher difficulties, is a waste. Want to snipe? Try another class.

[Isis 524]

xiaoassassin wrote...

Isis 524 wrote...

xiaoassassin wrote...

Yes, its so annoying isn't it. You outscore him by 2-4x but come next match he's still herp derping around thinking he's some elite sniper.

Because, I mean, no one who plays a sniper is good.

Guess I'll stop picking things off and helping my team get to the objective quicker. Next time one of them yells location on something they want sniped, I'll just derp around.

If they're a lousy sniper, ditch them. It's your choice to keep them in your party.

I don't get anything when I quit halfway, do I? That's when I realize. Oh, I'm outscoring that useless sniper by a ratio of 4. OH WELL. Time to expend 2x the effort and use some missles in order to win the match.

Long range is barely an issue in this game. None of the maps are large or open enough that a Sniper actually has an advantage over a Carni/Shotty user. Not to mention that lower cooldowns contribute to more crowd control meaning helping the team overall. Don't kid yourself by thinking you're helping your team by picking off enemies. Unless they're right next to the objective, you're just causing the enemy to respawn somewhere else. Not to mention that the carnifax, even the bloody predator is capable of covering long range well enough.

It doesn't matter if the sniper is good (Btw, its laughable to think you're good at sniping when almost every enemy walks in perfectly straight lines, uses the same animations to dodge every time, are incredibly predicatble in everthing they do). I can safely say that if I competed against myself. My clone with a sniper rifle. Myself with a shotgun or Carni. I will do better 100% of the time as the shotty/carni user. 

Btw, it's laughable that you think that being a shotgun user takes special talent either. (or that you're THAT much better than everyone else you play with) Your preference is your preference. Just because you do better with one weapon doesn't mean someone can't do better with a different one. There are shotty users who acts like idiots too, and there are snipers who can't hit anything.
And have you ever played on gold? Enemies don't walk in straight lines, they take cover, run at you and make it  little harder for all classes. If you're playing bronze they practically stand there begging to be killed. And the maps are plenty big enough.

The point is not to oursource everyone. Hoarding kills is not practical. You get a good 4 player TEAM and everyone gets about the same. (usually it's our biotic who gets a little more)  Between a soldier/biotic/sniper and your 4th player of choice, you can cover every situation. It's funny, my team likes it when I take out some of the nasty things at long range so they never get close, just as I appreciate the soldier for taking some out when they get close, and the biotic for cathing everything in the middle.

 If you have a team of snipers, it's not effective. If you have a team of close range, it's not effective. The point of Co-op is working together.

Again, you're good with certain weapons, other people are good with others. So don't just assume another class is useless because some people can't play it. 

Then again, I play with a team of players who have spent years in a group together through various FPS games. We know each other's strengths and with mass effect adding the powers in makes it even more fun. So we split things up effectively and the enemies are never around long enough for anyone to "derp around".

[STARSBarry]

the only time you know a sniper is any good is if there packing one of the lighter semi auto sniper rifle, anything thats mantis or heavier is a minus to the team

[ponurygrim]

vespy wrote...

Or i could you know, shoot them in the head and that would be the end of that.

Also I play a vanguard, not an adept.

Also as I stated before, with weight capacity and using a mantis, your power cd's are only about 50% longer than maxed cd reduction. When you factor in the dps loss from skill animation as opposed to shooting, you really don't lose much at all.

You seem to be under the impression that if an adept isn't spamming skills, he/she isn't doing anything at all. You think that the person carrying the sniper rifle is just derping around during the "significantly increased" cooldown duration.

I get one shot off per stasis. Thats pretty good in my book. And the cd is just right.

Choosing the widow or javelin as comparison is pretty hilarious, as noone should be using that weapon on golds, and noone should use it on silvers except for infiltrators. They are either overkill or underkill, and that is wasted dps.

You do realize that using stasis and sniping is taking out 1 enemy, when instead you can use stasis and throw or warp and kill one enemey and seriously hurt others? DPS and teamwork wise i think that setting off biotic explosion is better. Especially that biotic explosions are scaling trough out silver and gold.

Edit: you can set up biotic combos with warp+throw/shockwave/charge etc. FYI. Cooldown is smaller and the result is the same. DPS wise using powers is better then weapons.

Modifié par ponurygrim, 09 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[Ediblestarfish]

I don't really know what is up with sniping, since an engineer/vanguard combo can clear out huge waves of enemies in no time at all. Just spam CC and drone/turret and let a vanguard mop-up. No guns needed once you can get your main 1-2 abilities close to maxed with 200% cooldown bonus. It's almost horrifically easy.

Snipers can be as OP as they want to feel. :T

[Kopikatsu]

The only worthwhile weapons in the game are Sniper Rifles and Pistols. Pistols if you want to spam powers, Sniper Rifles if you want to rely on gunplay.

SMGs do crap damage outside of shotgun range, Shotguns do crap damage inside of shotgun range, and assault rifles do crap damage at all ranges.

Modifié par Kopikatsu, 09 mars 2012 - 09:38 .

[Gurluas]

I am a Salarian Engineer with the Black Widow. I like it.

[Warchild-RZ]

Kopikatsu wrote...

The only worthwhile weapons in the game are Sniper Rifles and Pistols. Pistols if you want to spam powers, Sniper Rifles if you want to rely on gunplay.

SMGs do crap damage outside of shotgun range, Shotguns do crap damage inside of shotgun range, and assault rifles do crap damage at all ranges.

  Totaly disagree on shotguns.  Grenade launchers are cool also.  Assualt rifles on taurians are nice.  Soldiers can make any weapon good.

[TheLostGenius]

Tommytsunami wrote...

Sniper on an Asari Adept is fairly good if you don't have one of the better pistols, but I do agree that sniper on a vanguard is kinda stupid.

It's fun in single player. Powerful Snipe with Ice Rounds, biotic rush!. You can freeze a group of enemies from far away, biotic rush up and the Nova smash all of them. Its fairly awesome.

[MotorWaffle]

Dude seriously, EVERYONE I play with uses a sniper and I don't get it.
I was using the raptor for a bit on a few classes because that is one fun gun lol but recently I just equiped my quarian infiltrator with a geth shotgun for some kicks - and damn that thing powerful! Plus coming out of cloak- KILLSHOT

[Thoragoros]

Lparsons7641 wrote...

Vanguards with a mantis.
Asari Adepts with a mantis
Human engineers with a mantis.

Put the sniper rifle down. You don't look cool. You aren't a BAMF. You just make the team lose. When I'm stuck downloading the objective solo because three lone wolf l337 sniperzzzzz run off to headshot husks it's annoying.


And i've had way more games like this then not.

Completely agree.

The role of Engineers, Adepts, and Vanguards is to spam powers.  Snipers are for soldiers and infiltrators, Snipers on anything else ruins team balance.  If you want to Snipe, play and Infiltrator or play a soldier.  Otherwise, you aren't aiding the team.

DCko wrote...

Asari Adepts have to resort to a mantis or other sniper rifles because they prob don't have a carnifex, paladin, or any other handgun that compliments stasis boom headshot.

Totally wrong.

Warp-Bomb the Statsis held enemies, which not only does massive damage, but also does splash damage to nearby enemies.

There is absolutely no team benefit whatsoever when an Asarii snipes an enemy in Stasis.  Warp-Combo on the other hand is amazing for area damage.

Modifié par Thoragoros, 09 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[GamiSB]

Arppis wrote...

Bah, just let people play the way they want.

While I'm not about to suggest policing and controlling how people play there is an element of common curtsy that needs to be taken into account. If your actions are a determent to the rest of your team it is your responsibility to then reassess what you are doing and correct it. 

Multiplayer requires a bit of a team effort and when a player does not contribute to that then the whole team feels the consequences.

Modifié par GamiSB, 09 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[Roros5e]

I played with a vanguard sniper just earlier. He would BioCharge and fire off a hipshot with his mantis at point blank while backpedaling, and repeat. This included Atlases.

[Mandolin]

From my albeit limited experience of the demo and the game it seems that at least 60% of players in public games use sniper rifles. I like casting and so only use a pistol but if people want to snipe i dont have a problem. It's a public arena - most people probably aren't interested in maximising the efficiency of the team. They just want to play in a way thats fun for them. I dont really think you can criticise people for that.