28 réponses à ce sujet

[AgentWhite1416]

Just real quick let me state that I'm a writer for an "unnamed" website,
and this is my opinion as a writer on the endings.

One of the first things you learn as a writer is that you can never surprise the
viewer, reader, or gamer with anything that you haven't hinted at earlier; it
is bad writing. This applies to meeting the Catalyst.



For example, at the end of a movie you cannot have someone just pull a dagger out
and stab the King with it; it would be to anticlimactic, and the viewer goes
"who what just happened" Instead, at an earlier point in the story
you need to see someone slip the dagger into a pocket. If anyone played GOW3
they'll no firsthand what I'm writing about.



Next, when you're writing the conclusion to almost anything, most good writers know
that the reader, viewer, gamer, whatever, have already created their own
interpretation of what the ending is going to be. So what you do is take that
interpretation and you try to make it as good as it can be, without disappointing
anyone.



This would have been extremely easy to do with the Mass Effect Series, because it is a
choice relevant game.



My closing thoughts are that this is extremely bad writing; and the entire Admiral
Anderson dying and on part was preposterous.



P.S. Admiral Anderson should live if you persuade Illusive Man throughout the entire
game.

Modifié par AgentWhite1416, 09 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Arokel]

But they did hint at the Catalyst. The VI on Thessia hinted at something beyond the Reapers.

I was okay with Anderson dying, sad but ok. I also heard you can save him with above 4k ems. dont know if its true.

[SnakeSNMF]

I had 7K EMS, Arokel. Not true. :\\

[IrishSpectre257]

Arokel wrote...

I was okay with Anderson dying, sad but ok. I also heard you can save him with above 4k ems. dont know if its true.

You can save him from being "killed" but he still bleeds out. He just gets a peaceful death lying next to Shepard instead.

[Arokel]

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

Arokel wrote...

I was okay with Anderson dying, sad but ok. I also heard you can save him with above 4k ems. dont know if its true.

You can save him from being "killed" but he still bleeds out. He just gets a peaceful death lying next to Shepard instead.

Oh that was what happened in my playthrough.

[IronSabbath88]

That's what happened in mine aswell. You have to have enough paragon points to make TIM kill himself ala Saren.

[SnakeSNMF]

SnakeSNMF wrote...

I had 7K EMS, Arokel. Not true. :

But yes, the ending was a complete surprise. And not the good type of surprise either-- The one that ruins the entire purpose of both games, the ideas established about the Reapers. Capitalizing and expanding onto the lore so we know more about the "species" that they are would've been interesting and we had the chance. But for the Citadel to be used twice, as a Relay and as the Catalyst, and then the ending following?

This was the worst writing Bioware has done in years. They should've kept through to the original idea. A dark energy weapon powerful of traveling via a Mass Relay to find any Reapers in the galaxy. No need for Relays destroying. (which by the way, what Bioware -created- specifically for this universe. Why did they ruin it suddenly and abruptly for what they've put so much time into, creating the realistic physics design?)
.. And then the characters' following on the Normandy.

why

[SnakeSNMF]

you know I really hate these forums sometimes especially because I just double-posted. Edit.

Modifié par SnakeSNMF, 09 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[Arokel]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

That's what happened in mine aswell. You have to have enough paragon points to make TIM kill himself ala Saren.

Really?   I just shot him with a renegade interrupt  and Anderson still died peacefully.

[Arokel]

Any thoughts on what the OP says about the Catalyst being a surprise at the end?

Like I said I don't believe he is wrong because the Prothean VI on Thessia mentions something beyond the Reapers.

Modifié par Arokel, 09 mars 2012 - 07:38 .

[AgentWhite1416]

Arokel wrote...

But they did hint at the Catalyst. The VI on Thessia hinted at something beyond the Reapers.

True. But I think most people thought that ment that (There is an Emperor behind Darth Vader) Not that there is a mystical unforseen preposterous intelligence.

Modifié par AgentWhite1416, 09 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[BaronScrewtape]

There is a reason the various sites put 'save' in quotes when discussing Anderson.
Yes, technically you save him.
Very technically.

[Arokel]

AgentWhite1416 wrote...

Arokel wrote...

But they did hint at the Catalyst. The VI on Thessia hinted at something beyond the Reapers.

True. But I think most people thought that ment that (There is an Emperor behind Darth Vader) Not that there is a mystical unforseen intelligence.

Ah that would explain why so many people got caught off guard.  I didn't really have expectations one way or the other.  Maybe that is why I have had a better reaction. 

I'm curious about why the kid was the Catalyst's chosen form.  Did the kid get harvested and the Catalyst was able to learn he had met Shep?  Did it know the kid's death was haunting Shep? 

[McAllyster]

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

Arokel wrote...

I was okay with Anderson dying, sad but ok. I also heard you can save him with above 4k ems. dont know if its true.

You can save him from being "killed" but he still bleeds out. He just gets a peaceful death lying next to Shepard instead.

Anyway... after that bad ending who cares?

[AgentWhite1416]

[/quote] "I'm curious about why the kid was the Catalyst's chosen form.  Did the kid get harvested and the Catalyst was able to learn he had met Shep?  Did it know the kid's death was haunting Shep?" [/quote]

I think it is the same thing that goes on with the Legion mission where it picks things that Sheps familiar with.

Modifié par AgentWhite1416, 09 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[grandmasterub]

Although I think implementing the catalyst as presented was a poor story choice I could deal with that "twist" if you will from BW.

What is unacceptable and that BW hugely messed up on is the results from your end choices. They are all lose-lose-lose. BW missed that fact that not all their players share the same mindset. Some people are fine with a bittersweet "goodtryfaila. nyway" ending. Others will want a badass "shep:3 reapers:0" ending. And others still will want a happy albeit less realistic "fairytale" ending. The options needed to include said results even if just through 10 minute final cutscene.

Option 1: Bittersweet- Reapers stopped but galaxy done for anyway. Cutscene includes destroyed relays, dying crew, planets in violence with treaties falling appart. Companions like wrex crushed that its all for nothing. Etc...

Option 2: Reapers stopped. Shep dies heroicly. Planets/companions seen rebuilding. LI at a grave/memorial to shep, etc...

Option 3: Reapers stopped. Shep lives. Happily ever after I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

Notice how theres no submit to the reapers option? There were 3 games dedicated to stopping the reapers... why would you suddenly /quit?

Modifié par grandmasterub, 09 mars 2012 - 07:42 .

[ziloe]

[quote]AgentWhite1416 wrote...

[/quote] "I'm curious about why the kid was the Catalyst's chosen form.  Did the kid get harvested and the Catalyst was able to learn he had met Shep?  Did it know the kid's death was haunting Shep?" [/quote]

I think it is the same thing that goes on with the Legion mission where it picks things that Sheps familiar with.

[/quote]

Site being buggy, this is my post: Pretty sure the kid was a manifestation of what you wanted to see in it. 

Modifié par ziloe, 09 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[SomeKindaEnigma]

Arokel wrote...

But they did hint at the Catalyst. The VI on Thessia hinted at something beyond the Reapers.

I was okay with Anderson dying, sad but ok. I also heard you can save him with above 4k ems. dont know if its true.

Wtf, I had over 5000 EMS and he died

[Nobrandminda]

My analogy is that it's like if Return of the Jedi had the ending to 2001 A Space Odyssy (since that's more or less what happens).

It's just wrong, it doesn't fit.

The problem with the ending isn't any one thing. All of the elements that people complain about (Shepard's inevitable sacrifice, meeting the reaper's creator) could have worked if they had been handled differently. Meeting the Catalyst would have worked if it had been built up more, and if he had a motivation that made sense.

I'm fine with Anderson dying, since honestly, I'd been predicting that that would happen at some point since the first time I played ME1. Although you're right. The circumstances of his death made it seem like you ought to be able to stop it somehow.

[Cody211282]

Arokel wrote...

Any thoughts on what the OP says about the Catalyst being a surprise at the end?

Like I said I don't believe he is wrong because the Prothean VI on Thessia mentions something beyond the Reapers.

It still came out of left feild. giving you a hint would have been something like "the Catalyst could destroy this galaxy" or "we found something on it, something that could anayilate any tupe of reaper tech."

Hell him just coming out and saying "Yo the Catalyst withh **** up the relays and is home to a retarded space wizard" would have made made it less of a blind side then was, not less retarded but less of a blindside.

[Gruzmog]

grandmasterub wrote...

Although I think implementing the catalyst as presented was a poor story choice I could deal with that "twist" if you will from BW.

What is unacceptable and that BW hugely messed up on is the results from your end choices. They are all lose-lose-lose. BW missed that fact that not all their players share the same mindset. Some people are fine with a bittersweet "goodtryfailanyway" ending. Others will want a badass "shep:3 reapers:0" ending

Well its there story so if they decide to not include the popular ending, fine by me, food for thought anyway.
BUT: even if you make no "and they all live happily after" endings which concerning the scale of things kinda makes sense, it does have to fit. This ending is so full of plotholes it does not make sense wether you are okay with unhappy endings or not.
- The normandy not in the sol system
- you're crew back on the normandy in the first place
- the illusive man in the citadel,
- why would war assets effect the outcome at all? Its not like the crucible gets shot at once, its not like only the technician war assets effect the possible endings
- why can't I atleast present a case to this godkid saying he is wrong, see the quarians and geth outside etc. etc. etc. 

[CrasVox]

I like your take. This whole final chapter just seemed lacking in the story department when it came to the total story arc.  The little stuff made sense and worked.  The genophage, the Quarian/Geth thing.  But this whole idea of the Reapers, it was like they just forgot about it.  Such reach fertile soil there.  I was certain at somepoint we would come across sometihng (maybe by accident, maybe following Cerberus to a Prothean ruin) that would teach us more about the reapers, where they came from, who created them, what their true purpose it.  But nothing. 

So much could have been done in that department setting up the final confrontation with the catalyst.  That is why I think the ending seems so out of place and so poor to most peoples eyes.  Not sure if it really is that there is no way to save Shepard (although in an RPG, it would probably be best to have one very hard to achieve path that leads to a Shepard alive after the end).  The whole ending offers no answers.  Mass Effect 1 was all about the answers.  talking to Soverign on Virmire, talking to Vigil on Illos, learning the Collectors are Prothean and working with the reapers, learning what they are doing, seeing Harbenger, stopping them in Arrival.  You just learn more and more.  Then there is this hint, hey, the Reapers are most likely working for a larger master.  Then you come across him only once, deal with it in a manner that is quite unsatisfactory, and then get this sequence with the Normandy that has no continuity with what just happened. 

    That is what I feel at this amature effort in writting.   Do better.  Because I expect better.  We all expected better.

Modifié par CrasVox, 09 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[AgentWhite1416]

I also wanted to mention that Harbinger had almost no existence in the story. 

The game currently has a 3.3 on Metacritic

Modifié par AgentWhite1416, 09 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[Zen_Mojo]

AgentWhite1416 wrote...

I also wanted to mention that Harbinger had almost no existence in the story. 

The game currently has a 3.3 on Metacritic

You mean a 91.  Irate users swarm games with ridiculously bad scores just to troll all of the time.  See the old 1.8 rating for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 that was just absolutely stupid.

I hated all of the endings but everything up to Shepard rising into the light was amazing.  It's that point where a glowing kid walks out where the game makes you want to punch your computer monitor.

It's what I call the "Lost" ending.  "Oh, it doesn't really matter what any of the characters were doing up until this point, because the completely nonsensical, metaphysical, and narrative-defying ending we are going to give you just won't care."

If Lost and Battlestar Galactica's endings had a baby, it would be Mass Effect 3's ending.

Modifié par Zen_Mojo, 09 mars 2012 - 09:08 .