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People Don't Get the Fantastic Ending...


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#1
QuirkyGroundhog

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I feel like a lot of people either a)
didn't understand the ending or B) didn't see the clear theme
throughout the game, and this seems like the best place to rant about
it.






First, we have to look at the two
primary decisions in the game, the Genophage and the Geth. These two
decisions, and the events surrounding them, are a culmination of
everything you've done and seen in the previous games. When people
ask about lack of consequences it blows my mind. But anyways, back to
the main point:



The Genophage question is, at its core,
'Do you believe that the Krogan can change? Or do you think that
history will inevitably repeat itself?'



The Geth question, at its core, is,
'Can synthetic and organic life co exist?'



Jump to the end game revelations: We
find out that the cycle was created by beings who determined that
organic life creating, and then being destroyed by, their synthetic
life is inevitable. As such they created a cycle: when organic life
creates synthetic life and said synthetic life is nearing the point
where it will inevitably destroy organic life, the Reapers come in
and harvest all organic life, preserving them forever as Reapers.
Each Reaper is the genetic culmination of a civilization. A single
entity or avatar for a species.



But life adapts. The cycle could never
last forever. So they built the Crucible, a 'test' to determine when
life had gotten to the point that the Cycle would soon fail to work,
and Shepard is the one to do it. He activates it, is informed the
truth about the Cycle, that it will no longer work, and is given a
choice.



This choice is a culmination of
everything that has happened before (except the middle choice).



'Will history inevitably repeat itself,
or can life change?' 'Can synthetic and organic life co exist?'



Well if you think history won't repeat
itself, that society has learned, and we can co exist with synthetic
life, you can command the Reapers to leave. THIS time will be
different. Life and the galaxy continue as it is. We'll find a way.



If you think history will repeat
itself, that synthetic and organic life can never co exist, then you
destroy all synthetic life simultaneously. The Reapers are
obliterated, as are the Geth. Organic life, you hope, never makes the
mistake of making AI again. Two decisions that reflect the two
central questions in the Mass Effect universe.



Of course, to do this, the 'space
magic' that will either tell the Reapers to leave or destroy
synthetic life will need to go out through the relays and they'll
fall apart in the process. The third option, to rewrite life as
organic/synthetic hybrids is pretty ridiculous, I'll admit, but it
was meant to be the 'good option', where you don't have to make a
choice.




BUT WHY WAS JOKER IN THE RELAY?



Well we know that the Fleet couldn't
actually win the battle. In fact, the Crucible was our only hope.
When it didn't fire and our fleet was being obliterated, is it
ridiculous they'd call a retreat?



How did my squad get on the Normandy?
Well, in universe, I assume time passed between your beam up and you
waking up and working on the Citadel. They had time. Out of universe?
So Bioware could give you a happy ending.



BUT LIFE IS **** NOW. THE RELAYS ARE
GONE AND GALACTIC CIVILIZATION IS BROKEN



Well, the easiest answer to this is
that the Protheans built a Relay, so we're probably not TOO far
behind. But beyond that, the answer is in the conversation between
Shepard and the Catalyst. I'll paraphrase, but Shepard basically
says, “We don't want to be preserved, we want a future.”




That's what the Crucible gives you, a
future. An uncertain future where things could go terribly wrong,
where endings aren't necesarily going to be happy, where things might
work, but a FUTURE. A future of your own making. Knowing what happens
to your squadmates, knowing how the galaxy rearranges itself isn't
important, what's important is that they even have a future.

#2
Aesieru

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We already know this, it's the way they didn't really conclude things properly and your actions seemed to have no impact.

#3
moonslightv

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QuirkyGroundhog wrote...


I feel like a lot of people either a)
didn't understand the ending or B) didn't see the clear theme
throughout the game, and this seems like the best place to rant about
it.






First, we have to look at the two
primary decisions in the game, the Genophage and the Geth. These two
decisions, and the events surrounding them, are a culmination of
everything you've done and seen in the previous games. When people
ask about lack of consequences it blows my mind. But anyways, back to
the main point:



The Genophage question is, at its core,
'Do you believe that the Krogan can change? Or do you think that
history will inevitably repeat itself?'



The Geth question, at its core, is,
'Can synthetic and organic life co exist?'



Jump to the end game revelations: We
find out that the cycle was created by beings who determined that
organic life creating, and then being destroyed by, their synthetic
life is inevitable. As such they created a cycle: when organic life
creates synthetic life and said synthetic life is nearing the point
where it will inevitably destroy organic life, the Reapers come in
and harvest all organic life, preserving them forever as Reapers.
Each Reaper is the genetic culmination of a civilization. A single
entity or avatar for a species.



But life adapts. The cycle could never
last forever. So they built the Crucible, a 'test' to determine when
life had gotten to the point that the Cycle would soon fail to work,
and Shepard is the one to do it. He activates it, is informed the
truth about the Cycle, that it will no longer work, and is given a
choice.



This choice is a culmination of
everything that has happened before (except the middle choice).



'Will history inevitably repeat itself,
or can life change?' 'Can synthetic and organic life co exist?'



Well if you think history won't repeat
itself, that society has learned, and we can co exist with synthetic
life, you can command the Reapers to leave. THIS time will be
different. Life and the galaxy continue as it is. We'll find a way.



If you think history will repeat
itself, that synthetic and organic life can never co exist, then you
destroy all synthetic life simultaneously. The Reapers are
obliterated, as are the Geth. Organic life, you hope, never makes the
mistake of making AI again. Two decisions that reflect the two
central questions in the Mass Effect universe.



Of course, to do this, the 'space
magic' that will either tell the Reapers to leave or destroy
synthetic life will need to go out through the relays and they'll
fall apart in the process. The third option, to rewrite life as
organic/synthetic hybrids is pretty ridiculous, I'll admit, but it
was meant to be the 'good option', where you don't have to make a
choice.




BUT WHY WAS JOKER IN THE RELAY?



Well we know that the Fleet couldn't
actually win the battle. In fact, the Crucible was our only hope.
When it didn't fire and our fleet was being obliterated, is it
ridiculous they'd call a retreat?



How did my squad get on the Normandy?
Well, in universe, I assume time passed between your beam up and you
waking up and working on the Citadel. They had time. Out of universe?
So Bioware could give you a happy ending.



BUT LIFE IS **** NOW. THE RELAYS ARE
GONE AND GALACTIC CIVILIZATION IS BROKEN



Well, the easiest answer to this is
that the Protheans built a Relay, so we're probably not TOO far
behind. But beyond that, the answer is in the conversation between
Shepard and the Catalyst. I'll paraphrase, but Shepard basically
says, “We don't want to be preserved, we want a future.”




That's what the Crucible gives you, a
future. An uncertain future where things could go terribly wrong,
where endings aren't necesarily going to be happy, where things might
work, but a FUTURE. A future of your own making. Knowing what happens
to your squadmates, knowing how the galaxy rearranges itself isn't
important, what's important is that they even have a future.


And how long did it take you to come up with these excuses on Bioware's behalf? You do realize that nearly 85% or more of the BSN is up in arms over this so called "ending"?

#4
QuirkyGroundhog

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The Genophage. The Geth. The ways you personally touched many, many people. How did your actions have no impact? Just because they didn't directly affect the main story's conclusion doesn't mean they had no impact.

Even then, I'd argue vehemently that they did affect the story's conclusion in that how you dealt with those problems should affect how you choose at the end.

Modifié par QuirkyGroundhog, 09 mars 2012 - 07:43 .


#5
Dragoni89

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you obviously disregarded any information given in the game. Love these troll posts that act high and mighty, telling the players that hated the ending they did not understand anything.

well obviously your smarter than the rest of us, yet all the points you made are flawed and proved invalid in someway or form in the ending treads. Which means you go read them and realize how wrong you are.

Modifié par Dragoni89, 09 mars 2012 - 07:44 .


#6
Jaron Oberyn

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Not just BSN, go to any site with a mass effect forum. Evn YouTube is upset.


-Polite

#7
QuirkyGroundhog

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Dragoni89 wrote...

you obviously disregarded any information given in the game. Love these troll posts that act high and mighty, telling the players that hated the ending. well obviously your smarter than the rest of us, yet all the points you made are flawed and proved invalid in someway or form in the ending treads. Which means you go read them and realize how wrong you are.


What information?

#8
AxisEvolve

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

Not just BSN, go to any site with a mass effect forum. Evn YouTube is upset.


-Polite

This is good news.

#9
Stereochrome

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Except, in a lot of ways, it did. Hell, one of the three "Ending" options directly says that all synthetics will destroy organics, that's the way it has to be.

Except EDI. Except Geth. You know. Except things that you showed in the story.

Plus, either way, most of the people you personally touched seem to be dead somehow. Or stranded. So in the end, all that work you put in? Yeah it won't matter by the end of the game anyway. Everyone is isolated, dead, or doomed to be dead. And Shepard listened to some strange god-child-thing when she should have smacked them like she did to everyone else who tried to tell her things must be a certain way.

#10
Aesieru

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QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

The Genophage. The Geth. The ways you personally touched many, many people. How did your actions have no impact? Just because they didn't directly affect the main story's conclusion doesn't mean they had no impact.

Even then, I'd argue vehemently that they did affect the story's conclusion in that how you dealt with those problems should affect how you choose at the end.


No matter how many forces you assemble... you die.
No matter how many forces you assemble... you only see Turian and Humans primarily.
No matter how many fleets you assemble, you lose.
No matter how many soldiers you assemble, you barely survive anything.

The preparation was really worth nothing when you actually get to the end.

The battle before the ending was terrible in terms of level design, so terrible I will personally just skip it the next time (I'll use a console cheat).

Basically the first and second part of the game don't really matter at all in the end.

And you can't argue with the Catalyst / Guardian either.

#11
Dragoni89

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QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

Dragoni89 wrote...

you obviously disregarded any information given in the game. Love these troll posts that act high and mighty, telling the players that hated the ending. well obviously your smarter than the rest of us, yet all the points you made are flawed and proved invalid in someway or form in the ending treads. Which means you go read them and realize how wrong you are.


What information?

What informations go read the ending posts and realize how wrong you are, I can't be bothered to repeat the same things over and over again.

#12
QuirkyGroundhog

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Stereochrome wrote...

Except, in a lot of ways, it did. Hell, one of the three "Ending" options directly says that all synthetics will destroy organics, that's the way it has to be.

Except EDI. Except Geth. You know. Except things that you showed in the story.

Plus, either way, most of the people you personally touched seem to be dead somehow. Or stranded. So in the end, all that work you put in? Yeah it won't matter by the end of the game anyway. Everyone is isolated, dead, or doomed to be dead. And Shepard listened to some strange god-child-thing when she should have smacked them like she did to everyone else who tried to tell her things must be a certain way.


But that's exactly my point. That's the control/merge endings. The 'No, respectfully, I disagree. EDI. The Geth. Peace is possible. Tell the Reapers to GTFO because this time will be different.' Also the Krogan decision, 'No, I don't think war is inevitable, I don't think history inevitably repeats'.

The decision you make at the end should be informed by how you played the game before this. Other players destroyed the Geth because they thought it WAS impossible, and so they WOULD destroy all synthetics Other players didn't cure the Genophage because they thought history DOES inevitably repeat itself, cycles of violence do continue. The final choices are influenced by what you've decided after seeing the other events in the game.

#13
SovereignWillReturn

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Fleet wasn't getting obliterated, they were actually holding out on their own.

Joker just pussied out for whatever reason.

Worst part of the endings? We don't get to see the effect Shepperd had on the Gakaxy. Do the Krogan find peace? What happens wit the fully capable Geth, how does civilization evolve after everyone is trapped on earth?!
What effect does my Blue/Green/Red light have on the galaxy? Huh? Thanks for detailing my choices Bioware, even the ending to Fallout 3 was better

/Sarcasm

#14
Ianamus

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QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

The Genophage. The Geth. The ways you personally touched many, many people. How did your actions have no impact? Just because they didn't directly affect the main story's conclusion doesn't mean they had no impact.

Even then, I'd argue vehemently that they did affect the story's conclusion in that how you dealt with those problems should affect how you choose at the end.


I worked my ass of to get peace between the Geth and the Quarians- and my ending killed all Geth and implied that ever creating a synthetic life form again would cause a bigger threat to the galaxy than the reapers. 

So what was the point of getting peace? I would have had the exact same outcome if i'd just sided with the Quarians in the first place. 

Modifié par EJ107, 09 mars 2012 - 07:52 .


#15
Aesieru

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QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

Stereochrome wrote...

Except, in a lot of ways, it did. Hell, one of the three "Ending" options directly says that all synthetics will destroy organics, that's the way it has to be.

Except EDI. Except Geth. You know. Except things that you showed in the story.

Plus, either way, most of the people you personally touched seem to be dead somehow. Or stranded. So in the end, all that work you put in? Yeah it won't matter by the end of the game anyway. Everyone is isolated, dead, or doomed to be dead. And Shepard listened to some strange god-child-thing when she should have smacked them like she did to everyone else who tried to tell her things must be a certain way.


But that's exactly my point. That's the control/merge endings. The 'No, respectfully, I disagree. EDI. The Geth. Peace is possible. Tell the Reapers to GTFO because this time will be different.' Also the Krogan decision, 'No, I don't think war is inevitable, I don't think history inevitably repeats'.

The decision you make at the end should be informed by how you played the game before this. Other players destroyed the Geth because they thought it WAS impossible, and so they WOULD destroy all synthetics Other players didn't cure the Genophage because they thought history DOES inevitably repeat itself, cycles of violence do continue. The final choices are influenced by what you've decided after seeing the other events in the game.


Control only sends them back to Dark Space so if you fail you can call them again.

#16
QuirkyGroundhog

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Aesieru wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

The Genophage. The Geth. The ways you personally touched many, many people. How did your actions have no impact? Just because they didn't directly affect the main story's conclusion doesn't mean they had no impact.

Even then, I'd argue vehemently that they did affect the story's conclusion in that how you dealt with those problems should affect how you choose at the end.


No matter how many forces you assemble... you die.
No matter how many forces you assemble... you only see Turian and Humans primarily.
No matter how many fleets you assemble, you lose.
No matter how many soldiers you assemble, you barely survive anything.

The preparation was really worth nothing when you actually get to the end.

The battle before the ending was terrible in terms of level design, so terrible I will personally just skip it the next time (I'll use a console cheat).

Basically the first and second part of the game don't really matter at all in the end.

And you can't argue with the Catalyst / Guardian either.


I agree. The level design for the final battle wasn't that good. I was dissapointed that I only got to see certain species in the fleet etc... Total agreement there.

At the same time I understand how that would take massive resources from Bioware. Also total war assets did affect the survival of your crew / Anderson.

But that's a level design issue, not a story issue.

#17
archvonbaron

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They didn't call a retreat as you can still see fighting when you make your choice and besides it wasn't a battle either side could retreat from, the organics had to fight and fight to the last ship because if they retreated they had lost so they may as well kill an additional Reaper or 2.

And you can expose a flaw in his plan in the Geth they never wanted a way with Organics just to be left alone and if you manage it you can have them and the Quarians working together but you don't tell the kid he's wrong and that Organics and Synthetics can live together.

The crew being on the Normandy is fine as you don't know how long you were unconscious.

I think the major reason people are angry is because we expected to be rewarded for playing a char from ME1 and our choices would be recognized and we could get decent endings ranging from all races in the galaxy being friends and getting along to human supremacy in the galaxy. As it is we don't and end up with 3 copy and pasted endings with a different colour energy thing.

#18
rma2110

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Thematically, I think the endings are great. The problem is interactive media should not be treated like a book. As someone who spent over 30 hours in all three games I became emotionally invested in the story. I knew that some endings would be the cliche matter ending, but not all of them. Maybe I'm being selfish but I was hoping that I would be rewarded for playing all three games. Even a epilogue telling me how the different races fared would have made me happy.

#19
QuirkyGroundhog

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EJ107 wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

The Genophage. The Geth. The ways you personally touched many, many people. How did your actions have no impact? Just because they didn't directly affect the main story's conclusion doesn't mean they had no impact.

Even then, I'd argue vehemently that they did affect the story's conclusion in that how you dealt with those problems should affect how you choose at the end.


I worked my ass of to get peace between the Geth and the Quarians- and my ending killed all Geth and implied that ever creating a synthetic life form again would cause a bigger threat to the galaxy than the reapers. 

So what was the point of getting peace? I would have had the exact same outcome if i'd just sided with the Quarians in the first place. 


To which I have to ask, why? Why did you kill the Geth if you thought peace was possible? Why didn't you send the Reapers back to dark space? Why didn't you merge synthetic and organic?

#20
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Gotta love these high-and-mighty "the only way to not like the ending is to not understand it" posts.

#21
QuirkyGroundhog

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rma2110 wrote...

Thematically, I think the endings are great. The problem is interactive media should not be treated like a book. As someone who spent over 30 hours in all three games I became emotionally invested in the story. I knew that some endings would be the cliche matter ending, but not all of them. Maybe I'm being selfish but I was hoping that I would be rewarded for playing all three games. Even a epilogue telling me how the different races fared would have made me happy.


That's a problem with games in general though. They mostly try to be interactive films, as opposed to taking full advantage of the interactive medium. But that's a whole other, crazy can of worms.

#22
Nekroso22

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I can assure you, OP, that I've read my fair share of good literature and that Mass Effect's ending was so contrived and pretentious it ranks up there with "The Room" in terms of WTF Factor.

But if you think I "didn't get it," I'd love to hear your explanation as to why.

#23
Adanu

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QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

The final choices are influenced by what you've decided after seeing the other events in the game.


Don't talk like this without proof. I did get different dialogue from most with the child (he tells me wake up instead of what are you doing here when he approaches me first)

#24
Nekroso22

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QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

Thematically, I think the endings are great. The problem is interactive media should not be treated like a book. As someone who spent over 30 hours in all three games I became emotionally invested in the story. I knew that some endings would be the cliche matter ending, but not all of them. Maybe I'm being selfish but I was hoping that I would be rewarded for playing all three games. Even a epilogue telling me how the different races fared would have made me happy.


That's a problem with games in general though. They mostly try to be interactive films, as opposed to taking full advantage of the interactive medium. But that's a whole other, crazy can of worms.


You're obviously the smartest one in the room.

Enlighten us.

#25
sonogi

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what people didnt seem to understand or accept is that all the endings are essentially about BREAKING THE CYCLE. yes, it would have MADE SENSE for the franchise if the mass relays were left intact, and we continued our adventures. but in the big picture, the writers wanted the protagonist to end the cycle (like Neo in the Matrix i suppose).