182 réponses à ce sujet

[Dranume]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

sonogi wrote...

what people didnt seem to understand or accept is that all the endings are essentially about BREAKING THE CYCLE. yes, it would have MADE SENSE for the franchise if the mass relays were left intact, and we continued our adventures. but in the big picture, the writers wanted the protagonist to end the cycle (like Neo in the Matrix i suppose).

Considering that if one chooses the control ending, it in no way shape or form states that the cycle has been ended. For all we know AI Shepard will wait 50k years and come to a "logical" conclusion like his/her predecessor did and restart all this crap.

Telling people they don't "get" or "understand" something is insulting. Many DO understand what has happened, and a great deal of it doesn't make any sense based on MANY things this series has tried to show us in the past.

Ai and organics cannot coexist? We prove that wrong.
Pick the merge ending then? You've just stripped the freedom of choice that's preached about among the series. And then to take that even further, the whole Grandpa and Grandson thing pretty much pisses on that with the whole "no technology" feel that winter scene gives.

I could go on, but it's like a broken record. Just repeating the same things everyone else is dissatisfied with.

And it's OK to like the endings. But don't talk down to others because they disagree, or disprove your opinion.

the highlighted above.... This dude has it right.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...
But we DON'T prove that wrong. Some of us do. Some players prove peace works. Some don't. Some Shepards prove it's possible. Some Shepards see that it does not work.

And some Shepards didn't do the upgrades in ME2 or got their people loyal and lost them.

So, people who did everything right should have something more.

[Nekroso22]

QuirkyGroundhog said...

What were the main stories in the Mass Effect universe that culminated in 3?

Um, stopping the Reapers?

The Genophage and the Geth.

Side-quests in ME2. Hinted that their importance would be felt, but it wasn't. The ending neutered both of these plots: we don't know if the Krogan ever overcame their warlike nature nor do we know if the peace between the Geth and the Quarians lasts.

Through the franchise you were shown the Krogan question, "Can the Krogan change, or is change impossible? Is history always going to repeat itself?' the Geth question asked, 'Can synthetic and organic life coexist?

Which would be excellent story points if they amounted to a hill of beans in the end. If we're not shown how our actions in the game have any effect on the story, they can be as potentially deep and thoughtful as they want to be. The point remains that we don't get to see them.

[AuraofMana]

Even assuming the OP is right in that no one understands the ending otherwise people wouldn't be complaining... if your game's ending made everyone felt like the series has been ruined and whatever philosophical deep **** you tried to invoke at the end didn't work then it's the developer's fault, not the players'.

There have been plenty of games that were thought invoking to most players while not ruining the series and providing a closure.

[QuirkyGroundhog]

spychi wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

spychi wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...



Well, the easiest answer to this is
that the Protheans built a Relay, so we're probably not TOO far
behind. But beyond that, the answer is in the conversation between
Shepard and the Catalyst. I'll paraphrase, but Shepard basically
says, “We don't want to be preserved, we want a future.”

no they didn't make the relays

They built the Conduit, so yes, they built a relay.

But the conduit was a small relay based of what they learned about the big ones, so its based on reaper tech in which case they did not invented them

Yeah, yeah, the Reapers built the relays. I'm just saying that the destruction of the Relay network is bad, but it's not the end of the world. The Protheans built a relay, we can too. Galactic civilization will rebuild eventually, some day. We have a future.

[QuirkyGroundhog]

AuraofMana wrote...

Even assuming the OP is right in that no one understands the ending otherwise people wouldn't be complaining... if your game's ending made everyone felt like the series has been ruined and whatever philosophical deep **** you tried to invoke at the end didn't work then it's the developer's fault, not the players'.

There have been plenty of games that were thought invoking to most players while not ruining the series and providing a closure.

Alright, the title is worded poorly. I don't mean to imply that no one understands the ending. I mean to imply that it's worth taking another, different look at the ending and not writing it off.

[Taleroth]

Eventually, some day, doesn't seem all that hopeful when everyone seems stuck on earth in the meantime. It was poorly thought out and gratuitous destruction. Every major fleet in the galaxy is stuck in one system. It'll take them decades or longer to build new relays if they even have the resources for it.

If there was a recall like some think to explain why the Normandy is in the relays, then every fleet's probably in the same situation. Stuck in random locations around the galaxy. No way home, limited supplies, limited population.

Modifié par Taleroth, 09 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[Zulmoka531]

Ghost Rider LSOV wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...
But we DON'T prove that wrong. Some of us do. Some players prove peace works. Some don't. Some Shepards prove it's possible. Some Shepards see that it does not work.

And some Shepards didn't do the upgrades in ME2 or got their people loyal and lost them.

So, people who did everything right should have something more.

Not only is Ghost here correct, but you have NO choice in wether EDI gets a body or not. If the Geth don't prove that EDI does, regardless of what you say or do.

[OblivionDawn]

Most people got the ending, it just sucked.

Just because an ending is bad does mean that people didn't get it.

The message that Mass Effect always built up was that the Reapers were the bad guys and they had to be destroyed by uniting the rest of the galaxy.

The ending we got implies that organic life is too stupid to coexist with synthetics, when that is clearly not the case; ideally, Shepard united the Geth and the Quarians.

Basically, Shepard ended all of these centuries-long grudges and war in a matter of days, which was impressive. However, none of that means anything with the crap ending that is currently in place.

It had the opportunity to be "deep," but it wasn't. Bioware crammed a bunch of nonsensical crap into that last few minutes of the game and it failed to be deep and succeeded in being bad.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 09 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[Dranume]

AuraofMana wrote...

Even assuming the OP is right in that no one understands the ending otherwise people wouldn't be complaining... if your game's ending made everyone felt like the series has been ruined and whatever philosophical deep **** you tried to invoke at the end didn't work then it's the developer's fault, not the players'.

There have been plenty of games that were thought invoking to most players while not ruining the series and providing a closure.

^this.. what ever they were trying to do, it obviously didnt work if the Majority of the community is saying WTF is this.. I dont like it!

also I am pasting what was sent to me via IM.

"Hey,
can't post, because i don't havet ME3. Send a PM instead.

OP contradicts himself, example:
"If you think history will repeat
itself, that synthetic and organic life can never co exist, then you
destroy all synthetic life simultaneously. The Reapers are
obliterated, as are the Geth. Organic life, you hope, never makes the
mistake of making AI again. Two decisions that reflect the two
central questions in the Mass Effect universe."

Thinking "history will repeat" and "you hope, never makes the mistake again" at the same time is not very convincing.
Perhaps you would like to post
Greetings, Minsc "

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Nekroso22 wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog said...

What were the main stories in the Mass Effect universe that culminated in 3?

Um, stopping the Reapers?

The Genophage and the Geth.

Side-quests in ME2. Hinted that their importance would be felt, but it wasn't. The ending neutered both of these plots: we don't know if the Krogan ever overcame their warlike nature nor do we know if the peace between the Geth and the Quarians lasts.

Through the franchise you were shown the Krogan question, "Can the Krogan change, or is change impossible? Is history always going to repeat itself?' the Geth question asked, 'Can synthetic and organic life coexist?

Which would be excellent story points if they amounted to a hill of beans in the end. If we're not shown how our actions in the game have any effect on the story, they can be as potentially deep and thoughtful as they want to be. The point remains that we don't get to see them.

Y'know what, you hit it on the nose.

To you, and I'm guessing to many, what's important about choice is seeing the exact consequences of choice.

To me, and clearly less but still a significan number, the importance about choice IS the choice. Why you make it. How you make it.

[TheLostGenius]

The furore over the endings is really just sad fans upset that Galaxy/Story/Lore is basically OVER.

[Taleroth]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

To you, and I'm guessing to many, what's important about choice is seeing the exact consequences of choice.

To me, and clearly less but still a significan number, the importance about choice IS the choice. Why you make it. How you make it.

Making the choice is what is important to me. But I'm not allowed choices here. I'm only allowed to verify the Reapers' boss' choices.

That doesn't strike me as reasonable. Shepard deserves the right to say "no."

Modifié par Taleroth, 09 mars 2012 - 08:32 .

[QuirkyGroundhog]

OblivionDawn wrote...

The ending we got implies that organic life is too stupid to coexist with synthetics

It asks you that question. Some Shepards unite the Quarians and Geth. Those Shepards are going to see things one way. Other Shepards don't. Your Shepard's opinion on this should be based on what you did in the game.

Some players cured the Genophage because they thought that the Krogan could overcome their violent past. Others did not cure the Genophage, because they thought war would be inevitable. These two situations should affect Shepard's final decision.

Did you cure the Genophage? Did you make peace? Well then clearly coexistence is possible.

Did you not? Did the Quarian and Geth destroy each other? Well clearly we're incapable.

I'm saying your final choice should be influenced directly by what you saw in the game, and different players saw different things.

[Luigitornado]

I agree with you for the most part.

Choices have only ever been about an illusion of choice and my journey to the end.

[DariusST]

The main fault of the ME 3 endings, I think, is there is no closure

They are almost all virtually identical, and don't show the ultimate effect of your choices. The whole draw about Mass Effect was that the story could be tailored to your choices, and then Bioware gave us 3 endings that, firstly, you get no matter whether you are paragon, renegade, or middle path sheppard, dont show the consequences of your choices post-finishing off the reapers, all have essentially the same consequences( Mass relays destroyed, no reapers, normandy crashlanding, stargazer talking about the sheppard)

This is why people are angry, it doesn't matter whehter the endings make sense, there is no catharsis here. Alot of people, especially me, wanted a happy heroic ending. I spent 30 hours amassing this huge fleet, so that I could come in, kick some reaper ass, and then go have them blue children with Liara. Bioware is not stupid, that SHOULD have been the logical PAragon Choice, just like Humanity running **** with the renegade choice. They instead gave us these ridiculous endings for, what?

It just stinks of laziness

[OblivionDawn]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

The ending we got implies that organic life is too stupid to coexist with synthetics

It asks you that question. Some Shepards unite the Quarians and Geth. Those Shepards are going to see things one way. Other Shepards don't. Your Shepard's opinion on this should be based on what you did in the game.

Some players cured the Genophage because they thought that the Krogan could overcome their violent past. Others did not cure the Genophage, because they thought war would be inevitable. These two situations should affect Shepard's final decision.

Did you cure the Genophage? Did you make peace? Well then clearly coexistence is possible.

Did you not? Did the Quarian and Geth destroy each other? Well clearly we're incapable.

I'm saying your final choice should be influenced directly by what you saw in the game, and different players saw different things.

Then if they did crappy things, they should get the crappy endings, that would make sense.

However, the Shepards that did everything in their power to create peace and unite the species against the Reapers, should get good endings with closure. Definitely without destroying the Mass Relays to make everything pointless.

[Luigitornado]

I agree with you for the most part.

Choice has only ever been about an illusion of choices and my journey to the end. Seeing the Normandy run at the end felt more like a metaphor about organics trying to choose their fate instead of succumbing to somebody else's choices.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 09 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Taleroth wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

To you, and I'm guessing to many, what's important about choice is seeing the exact consequences of choice.

To me, and clearly less but still a significan number, the importance about choice IS the choice. Why you make it. How you make it.

Making the choice is what is important to me. But I'm not allowed choices here. I'm only allowed to verify the Reapers' boss' choices.

That doesn't strike me as reasonable. Shepard deserves the right to say "no."

Yeah, but saying 'no' is losing, and for it not to be losing it would require the entire third game as well as the strength of the Reapers and lots of the lore built up over three games to be completely discarded or changed. Which, if you're just saying you wanted to straight up 'win', I get that, but I think it's unfair to condemn the entire ending for not having that option.

[DraCZeQQ]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

To me, and clearly less but still a significan number, the importance about choice IS the choice. Why you make it. How you make it. 

Nohing says deep and well though as "milions year" old device, that has three very distinct color coded path, with three distinct tailored decisions, right?

[QuirkyGroundhog]

OblivionDawn wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

The ending we got implies that organic life is too stupid to coexist with synthetics

It asks you that question. Some Shepards unite the Quarians and Geth. Those Shepards are going to see things one way. Other Shepards don't. Your Shepard's opinion on this should be based on what you did in the game.

Some players cured the Genophage because they thought that the Krogan could overcome their violent past. Others did not cure the Genophage, because they thought war would be inevitable. These two situations should affect Shepard's final decision.

Did you cure the Genophage? Did you make peace? Well then clearly coexistence is possible.

Did you not? Did the Quarian and Geth destroy each other? Well clearly we're incapable.

I'm saying your final choice should be influenced directly by what you saw in the game, and different players saw different things.

Then if they did crappy things, they should get the crappy endings, that would make sense.

However, the Shepards that did everything in their power to create peace and unite the species against the Reapers, should get good endings with closure. Definitely without destroying the Mass Relays to make everything pointless.

The Protheans built the Conduit. Relays will be rebuilt, galactic civilization will continue. Eventually.

[TheLostGenius]

Dranume wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...

sonogi wrote...

what people didnt seem to understand or accept is that all the endings are essentially about BREAKING THE CYCLE. yes, it would have MADE SENSE for the franchise if the mass relays were left intact, and we continued our adventures. but in the big picture, the writers wanted the protagonist to end the cycle (like Neo in the Matrix i suppose).

Considering that if one chooses the control ending, it in no way shape or form states that the cycle has been ended. For all we know AI Shepard will wait 50k years and come to a "logical" conclusion like his/her predecessor did and restart all this crap.

Telling people they don't "get" or "understand" something is insulting. Many DO understand what has happened, and a great deal of it doesn't make any sense based on MANY things this series has tried to show us in the past.

Ai and organics cannot coexist? We prove that wrong.
Pick the merge ending then? You've just stripped the freedom of choice that's preached about among the series. And then to take that even further, the whole Grandpa and Grandson thing pretty much pisses on that with the whole "no technology" feel that winter scene gives.

I could go on, but it's like a broken record. Just repeating the same things everyone else is dissatisfied with.

And it's OK to like the endings. But don't talk down to others because they disagree, or disprove your opinion.

the highlighted above.... This dude has it right.

WRONG disagree or DISAPPROVE. Your opinion about the ending is just as subjective as people that like it. THeir is no objective basis for complaining about it. It exists, the writers created it, and nothing can be done to change it.

[SovereignWillReturn]

I liked the Dark Energy storyline SO MUCH BETTER.

Dark Energy threatens the Universe, Reapers kill species to keep them from accumulating too much Dark Energy because the more the Relays are used, the more builds up, each cycle bleeds off Dark Energy as it resets. Humanity genetic diversity is amazing, and as Shepperd as the example, the Reapers wanna eat the humans, reaperize them, and hopefully with super-advanced Reaper combined human intelligence, they find a solution to the Spiral Nemesis...err...I mean Dark Energy.

You can say Eff off reapers, use your fleets to obliterate them, or allow Humanity to become a Reaper, or other possibilities.

[Dragoni89]

Guys we should stop, we are getting trolled by this guy so hard.


QuirkyGroundhog: People Don't Get the Fantastic Ending...
10 posts later...
QuirkyGroundhog :I agree, that ending was stupid. Ridiculous space magic. I would have much rathered there be no middle choice.

A few things I answer about your original post.

Humans cannot rebuild the mass effect relays, how many times in game I have been told by the Prothien to be primitive. Obviously are technology is not there yet.
You are obviosuly in self denial, that there is now way bioware could destroy the Mass Effect world.

The goal of mass effect 3 is to save humanity, take back the earth as the ME3 campaign called it.
All 3 endings in some way or form, have Sherpard basically destroying humanity chance for survival. They reapers at least avoided destroying primitive races, for 50,000 years leave the galaxies at peace. Sherapard condemns all species into the sol system. Makes inter-galatic travel impossible. Just wishful thinking that humans can build mass relays.

Modifié par Dragoni89, 09 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[Fishy]

Look like the Reaper were just policing the whole galaxy and playing god.

Sovereign :
Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our
technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we
desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because
we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Which mean they don't give any chance to organic life. But they're wrong. They're wrong because thing change. It's in the nature of sapience unless you're pre-programmed.

So in the end the cataclyst is wrong. The solution is a failure. So i think the 'control' option was the best choice but ppl hate that option because Shepard has to die with the Mass Relay.