182 réponses à ce sujet

[Luigitornado]

DariusST wrote...

The main fault of the ME 3 endings, I think, is there is no closure

They are almost all virtually identical, and don't show the ultimate effect of your choices. The whole draw about Mass Effect was that the story could be tailored to your choices, and then Bioware gave us 3 endings that, firstly, you get no matter whether you are paragon, renegade, or middle path sheppard, dont show the consequences of your choices post-finishing off the reapers, all have essentially the same consequences( Mass relays destroyed, no reapers, normandy crashlanding, stargazer talking about the sheppard)

This is why people are angry, it doesn't matter whehter the endings make sense, there is no catharsis here. Alot of people, especially me, wanted a happy heroic ending. I spent 30 hours amassing this huge fleet, so that I could come in, kick some reaper ass, and then go have them blue children with Liara. Bioware is not stupid, that SHOULD have been the logical PAragon Choice, just like Humanity running **** with the renegade choice. They instead gave us these ridiculous endings for, what?

It just stinks of laziness

I'm kind of tired of "laziness" being thrown around. I would think the term "out-of-touch" would be more of what you are implying.

There is no doubt Bioware worked hard on this game.

[Taleroth]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

Yeah, but saying 'no' is losing,

No, saying yes is losing. The Catalyst is the Reapers. He is the villain. Agreeing to the villain's demands is not victory.

and for it not to be losing it would require the entire third game as well as the strength of the Reapers and lots of the lore built up over three games to be completely discarded or changed. 

The strength of the Reapers is entirely arbitrary. We brought an all powerful McGuffin to the fight, it could just as easily as weakened them or allowed us to sabotage the Catalyst as the alternatives we were presented with. It's just an AI on a space station. We could very well have brought billions of the dang things with us.

Modifié par Taleroth, 09 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[QuirkyGroundhog]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

To me, and clearly less but still a significan number, the importance about choice IS the choice. Why you make it. How you make it. 

Nohing says deep and well though as "milions year" old device, that has three very distinct color coded path, with three distinct tailored decisions, right?

When the three colored paths are a meta reference to the paragon/renegade options you've faced throughout the game, and the 'millions year old' device that you believe is a final weapon to defeat the evil foe, instead ends up being another method of control, yes.

I mean, to be fair, Mass Effect has always basically been Battlestar Galactica. They just added a bit of the Matrix in there for the third game.

[DraCZeQQ]

Wouldn't Quarians and Turians starve to death in Sol?

[Nekroso22]

QuirkyGroundhog said...

To me, and clearly less but still a significant number, the importance about choice IS the choice. Why you make it. How you make it.

But we're not even given that. You don't get a chance to make the choice, you're hastily shoved down one of three paths and told "That's it, kids, go play the multiplayer now."

How you make the choice is just as irrelevant in this game as the consequences of the choice. It doesn't matter if you choose to help the Krogan or not, it doesn't matter whether or not you kill the Geth or bring peace. It takes you to the same place; why you chose what you did is moot.

[double02]

I personally liked the ending. It was deep and quite gripping. I've never felt the way I did after completing a game. A vast amount of unsettling emotions poured into me during the end. My mind was in disarray.

[Aesieru]

To be fair Quirky, it's admirable you're trying to defend the game but it's more honest to admit that the game has a lot of problems and a lot of people were shafted and in some form BioWare was lazy and if you don't agree with them being lazy or not caring, then I have to ask you why we haven't heard anything from BioWare outside of numerous threads being closed, moved, or deleted.

[DOYOURLABS]

I was just mad because I wanted a happy ending with the LI

[Nekroso22]

double02 wrote...

I personally liked the ending. It was deep and quite gripping. I've never felt the way I did after completing a game. A vast amount of unsettling emotions poured into me during the end. My mind was in disarray.

And that's your idea of a meaningful emotional reaction?

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Dragoni89 wrote...

Guys we should stop, we are getting trolled by this guy so hard.


QuirkyGroundhog: People Don't Get the Fantastic Ending...
10 posts later...
QuirkyGroundhog :I agree, that ending was stupid. Ridiculous space magic. I would have much rathered there be no middle choice.

A few things I answer about your original post.

Humans cannot rebuild the mass effect relays, how many times in game I have been told by the Prothien to be primitive. Obviously are technology is not there yet.
You are obviosuly in self denial, that there is now way bioware could destroy the Mass Effect world.

The goal of mass effect 3 is to save humanity, take back the earth as the ME3 campaign called it.
All 3 endings in some way or form, have Sherpard basically destroying humanity chance for survival. They reapers at least avoided destroying primitive races, for 50,000 years leave the galaxies at peace. Sherapard condemns all species into the sol system. Makes inter-galatic travel impossible. Just wishful thinking that humans can build mass relays.

I'm not saying Relays are going to be up and running in a year. I'm saying that there will be a future. This isn't 'the end'. It's a hefty bump in the road.

As for the 'magic' out of context quote, as I have said previously, the 'middle' choice is a thematic swerve that was thrown in to have a 'happy' ending. The other two choices are the focus of everything I've said.

[Greed1914]

rma2110 wrote...

Thematically, I think the endings are great. The problem is interactive media should not be treated like a book. As someone who spent over 30 hours in all three games I became emotionally invested in the story. I knew that some endings would be the cliche matter ending, but not all of them. Maybe I'm being selfish but I was hoping that I would be rewarded for playing all three games. Even a epilogue telling me how the different races fared would have made me happy.

It's true.  At the end I was hoping they might pull a Dragon Age and give us epilogues.  We did just completely alter the future of the galaxy after all.  I suppose I didn't start hoping for that until they took a page out of the Dragon Age playbook at the end where you get to speak to your companions one last time. 

DOYOURLABS wrote...

I was just mad because I wanted a happy ending with the LI

It' a bit selfish, but I felt the same way.  I felt absolutely horrible knowing that I would leave Tali behind.  I feel even worse knowing that the only way to get back to her involves destroying EDI and the Geth.

Modifié par Greed1914, 09 mars 2012 - 08:46 .

[Keisari76]

The ending was all Liara's bad dream, and in dlc we get to see her waking up and seeing Shepard in a shower. (Rip-off from Dallas)

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Aesieru wrote...

To be fair Quirky, it's admirable you're trying to defend the game but it's more honest to admit that the game has a lot of problems and a lot of people were shafted and in some form BioWare was lazy and if you don't agree with them being lazy or not caring, then I have to ask you why we haven't heard anything from BioWare outside of numerous threads being closed, moved, or deleted.

Well, people have brought up criticisms in this thread I've agreed with, it's certainly not a game without flaws.

But why is Bioware acting that way? If I were to guess? Probably because it's a company of individuals who poured their heart and soul into a franchise over, what, 6 years? And now that it's over they're being told they've retroactively ruined all of it. I think that's probably one of the reasons I'm defending it so vehemently, this backlash feels really....cheap.

[OblivionDawn]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

The ending we got implies that organic life is too stupid to coexist with synthetics

It asks you that question. Some Shepards unite the Quarians and Geth. Those Shepards are going to see things one way. Other Shepards don't. Your Shepard's opinion on this should be based on what you did in the game.

Some players cured the Genophage because they thought that the Krogan could overcome their violent past. Others did not cure the Genophage, because they thought war would be inevitable. These two situations should affect Shepard's final decision.

Did you cure the Genophage? Did you make peace? Well then clearly coexistence is possible.

Did you not? Did the Quarian and Geth destroy each other? Well clearly we're incapable.

I'm saying your final choice should be influenced directly by what you saw in the game, and different players saw different things.

Then if they did crappy things, they should get the crappy endings, that would make sense.

However, the Shepards that did everything in their power to create peace and unite the species against the Reapers, should get good endings with closure. Definitely without destroying the Mass Relays to make everything pointless.

The Protheans built the Conduit. Relays will be rebuilt, galactic civilization will continue. Eventually.

The Protheans were technologically hundreds or thousands of years ahead of our time and they had a Relay to reverse engineer and base their design on.

So by the time that happened (if it ever happened). Everyone would have eventually reverted to craptastic pre-space flight. Hence the old guy and his kid after the credits.

[Storenumber9]

Luigitornado wrote...

DariusST wrote...

The main fault of the ME 3 endings, I think, is there is no closure

They are almost all virtually identical, and don't show the ultimate effect of your choices. The whole draw about Mass Effect was that the story could be tailored to your choices, and then Bioware gave us 3 endings that, firstly, you get no matter whether you are paragon, renegade, or middle path sheppard, dont show the consequences of your choices post-finishing off the reapers, all have essentially the same consequences( Mass relays destroyed, no reapers, normandy crashlanding, stargazer talking about the sheppard)

This is why people are angry, it doesn't matter whehter the endings make sense, there is no catharsis here. Alot of people, especially me, wanted a happy heroic ending. I spent 30 hours amassing this huge fleet, so that I could come in, kick some reaper ass, and then go have them blue children with Liara. Bioware is not stupid, that SHOULD have been the logical PAragon Choice, just like Humanity running **** with the renegade choice. They instead gave us these ridiculous endings for, what?

It just stinks of laziness

I'm kind of tired of "laziness" being thrown around. I would think the term "out-of-touch" would be more of what you are implying.

There is no doubt Bioware worked hard on this game.

Agreed. 
I don't think Bioware said "F-it" and just half-assed the ending.
I think they were really trying to have a dark and gritty ending. But, it didn't work, and they fell short in many places.

[Bellendaine]

Thank you, QuirkyGroundhog, for informing me of how right you are, and how wrong the rest of us are. It's always good to know. And it's also good to know that my ability to reason is flawed, and that the fact that I think the endings sucked is based on my ignorance.

Now that that's settled ... the endings are offensive and insulting to my intelligence, and everyone's devotion to the game. There are tons of ways that the "cycle" could've been broken that would not have made all that you do as Shepard to save civilization hopeless and invalid. The devs and writers instead took the oldest and most hackneyed and cliched way out: the deus ex machina (and I'm a theater professor so I know a fair amount about ye olde deuses ...).

Modifié par Bellendaine, 09 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[Nekroso22]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

I think that's probably one of the reasons I'm defending it so vehemently, this backlash feels really....cheap

Well, the ending was cheap. You reap what you sow, if you'll pardon the pun.

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Storenumber9 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

DariusST wrote...

The main fault of the ME 3 endings, I think, is there is no closure

They are almost all virtually identical, and don't show the ultimate effect of your choices. The whole draw about Mass Effect was that the story could be tailored to your choices, and then Bioware gave us 3 endings that, firstly, you get no matter whether you are paragon, renegade, or middle path sheppard, dont show the consequences of your choices post-finishing off the reapers, all have essentially the same consequences( Mass relays destroyed, no reapers, normandy crashlanding, stargazer talking about the sheppard)

This is why people are angry, it doesn't matter whehter the endings make sense, there is no catharsis here. Alot of people, especially me, wanted a happy heroic ending. I spent 30 hours amassing this huge fleet, so that I could come in, kick some reaper ass, and then go have them blue children with Liara. Bioware is not stupid, that SHOULD have been the logical PAragon Choice, just like Humanity running **** with the renegade choice. They instead gave us these ridiculous endings for, what?

It just stinks of laziness

I'm kind of tired of "laziness" being thrown around. I would think the term "out-of-touch" would be more of what you are implying.

There is no doubt Bioware worked hard on this game.

Agreed. 
I don't think Bioware said "F-it" and just half-assed the ending.
I think they were really trying to have a dark and gritty ending. But, it didn't work, and they fell short in many places.

Again, that's my real problem, though I think I made it unclear. It's perfectly valid to say, 'I don't like this ending', but it feels really cheap to say, 'This ending is not thought out and lazy and retroactively ruins the franchise'

[Aesieru]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

To be fair Quirky, it's admirable you're trying to defend the game but it's more honest to admit that the game has a lot of problems and a lot of people were shafted and in some form BioWare was lazy and if you don't agree with them being lazy or not caring, then I have to ask you why we haven't heard anything from BioWare outside of numerous threads being closed, moved, or deleted.

Well, people have brought up criticisms in this thread I've agreed with, it's certainly not a game without flaws.

But why is Bioware acting that way? If I were to guess? Probably because it's a company of individuals who poured their heart and soul into a franchise over, what, 6 years? And now that it's over they're being told they've retroactively ruined all of it. I think that's probably one of the reasons I'm defending it so vehemently, this backlash feels really....cheap.

I defended it too, and then I played it.

I tried defending Dragon Age 2, and then I played it.

This isn't a 1 strike, this is 2 strikes, and to many, TOR was the third strike.

[Bellendaine]

Keisari76 wrote...

The ending was all Liara's bad dream, and in dlc we get to see her waking up and seeing Shepard in a shower. (Rip-off from Dallas)

LOL ... love the tacky pop culture reference!  

[SLonergan]

No. You're deluding yourself OP.

Joker running away in the relay ONLY makes sense in the destruction ending. He's trying to save the one he loves.

In the other two, the waves of energy aren't destructive, so the Relays shouldn't be getting destroyed in the first place.

Also, that really sucks for all the Turians, Krogan, Geth, Quarians, and Salarians, who are now stranded on Earth with no way to return to their home planets.

By destroying the relays, you've ****ed the galaxy.

[Patriota125]

Why are the endings great? Because they're REALISTIC. Don't use the word "pretentious" if you don't know what it means.

Why are they realistic? Because civilization is facing an enemy that has been around for millions of years. How the FVCK do youe xpect to beat an enemy like that¿

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Modifié par QuirkyGroundhog, 09 mars 2012 - 08:56 .

[Aesieru]

Patriota125 wrote...

Why are the endings great? Because they're REALISTIC. Don't use the word "pretentious" if you don't know what it means.

Why are they realistic? Because civilization is facing an enemy that has been around for millions of years. How the FVCK do youe xpect to beat an enemy like that¿

You don't even know what half the words you use mean, and you're the most insulting person on at this moment. Stop typing.

[SLonergan]

And the term laziness only applies to the ending. The fact that all three endings are the same, with only a slight color swap and different death animation for Shepard, is absolutely Lazy.

Before the game came out, pretty soon after ME2's release, I remember someone from Bioware saying that Mass Effect 3 would be able to have drastically different endings, since there was no fourth game to fit all the options into. Instead, we got the most linear ending sequence in the entire series. There is almost no variation between the three endings, and two of them have glaring inconsistencies.