10 réponses à ce sujet

[fmantr]

Sorry if it's a repost, but didn't find this question in other threads.

So, if Catalyst who controls the reapers was always on the Citadel, what is the purpose of Sovereign and what's the  sense
of the entire ME1 plot? Couldn't Catalyst just open relay himself? Why so complicated, why need Soverign, geth, Saren? 

Looks like a huge hole in the plot for me. 

[Warp92]

TL113 wrote...

Sorry if it's a repost, but didn't find this question in other threads.

So, if Catalyst who controls the reapers was always on the Citadel, what is the purpose of Sovereign and what's the  sense
of the entire ME1 plot? Couldn't Catalyst just open relay himself? Why so complicated, why need Soverign, geth, Saren? 

Because that would make too much sense for Bioware.

[Nero Narmeril]

Catalyst is megalomaniac, so he doesn't do anything, because he thinks the Reapers will do all the job.

[Ahriman]

He feels lonely every 50 000 years and doesn't want to do anything without a personal visit and talk.

[xtorma]

Why didn't the vi on ilos tell shepard about the crucible , if the protheans had been building it , believed it to be the way to kill the reapers , and saved it to the mars archive.

You would think it would have said...you need to get through the conduit and stop saren , kill the reaper , and start building this device.

[Urazz]

Actually, I just thought of it but maybe the Catalyst could control the relay through the keepers but the Protheans disabling the Keepers' ability to recieve the signal from Soveriegn to open the relay also prevented the Catalyst from controlling the relay as well.

Part of the reason for Soveriegn was for him to observe the organic civilizations to decide when they are at that harvestable point. The Catalyst wasn't able to do that really.

xtorma wrote...

Why didn't the vi on ilos tell shepard about the crucible , if the protheans had been building it , believed it to be the way to kill the reapers , and saved it to the mars archive.

You would think it would have said...you need to get through the conduit and stop saren , kill the reaper , and start building this device.

Maybe becaues the projects were seperate and the scientists of both weren't aware of the other?

Modifié par Urazz, 09 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[SNascimento]

xtorma wrote...

Why didn't the vi on ilos tell shepard about the crucible , if the protheans had been building it , believed it to be the way to kill the reapers , and saved it to the mars archive.

You would think it would have said...you need to get through the conduit and stop saren , kill the reaper , and start building this device.

.
Maybe he didn't knew. Ilos was pretty isolated... the prothean himself said not even them knew if it was real (Ilos). 
.
And I don't think the Guardian could open the citadel... it's hard to know the nature of its existence. 

[SyyRaaaN]

This is an absurd plot inconsistency. Why on earth wouldn't the Guardian be able to open the Citadel? There is no rationale for it. Period. Ive whined about this in some threads.

[SyyRaaaN]

xtorma wrote...

Why didn't the vi on ilos tell shepard about the crucible , if the protheans had been building it , believed it to be the way to kill the reapers , and saved it to the mars archive.

You would think it would have said...you need to get through the conduit and stop saren , kill the reaper , and start building this device.

LOL. The more people look at the story, and the more people deconstruct it; the more absurd the story becomes.  the worst thing with this story is that it ruins ME1 and ME2.


I posted this in another thread: 

Enough. Now I'm gonna try to attack this game. Since people here insist to call this a good story i will tell you why not. Because now I'm gonna treat the ME series story line as something solid, and thus it should
survive criticism. My memory is slightly off; So correct me if I'm wrong in my facts.

Statement 1

The only reason the Reapers couldn't invade the galaxy several years ago was because the signal that altered the Keepers. Thus the Citadel wouldn't open. This is told by Vigil. Ok? I buy this premise of the series. But... In ME3 the Citadel and the Reapers are controlled by this AI-kid, Guardian. I wouldn't consider this a plot hole necessarly. But it needs to be answered. So ok? Why didn't the Guardian open the citadel? Does the Guardian need the
keepers to open it? Why? This setup is obviously flawed. The keepers could be killed by some dubious race or whatever. Why on earth would they run with this setup? This premise is just unbeliavable after we learn about the Guardian.

Statement 2

Why didn't the reapers attack the Citadel directly; take it over and shut down the entire relay system? From ME1 i always assumed thats how the Protheans lost the war. Vigil also says so. When the relay system was unusable for them they were on isolated islands in space and thus they couldn't defend themselves. We knew that the Reapers were very, very strong and tough. But they werent undestructable, it even didn't seem as they were
undefeatable. So why didn't they strike the citadel? Dunno.

Statement 3

Okay, after the Illusive Man tells the Reapers about the plan of the crucible. They decide to move it to earth... Ok. Again, why not shut down the Mass Relay system. The Reapers obviously felt a threat, thats why they moved it. In ME1 we saw Sovereign tampering with the relay to fix it. Why didn't Harbinger or one of his tools do this? Its almost that they invited Shepard into the room. But then... Why was all the fighting and running necessary to get in there? If the Guardian wanted him there he could have rolled out the carpet. If he didn't want him there, well... SHUT DOWN THE RELAY SYSTEM. Unanswered...

Statement 3,5

All in all, controlling the Mass relay system seemed to be a core strategy of the Reapers. Why didn't they try it again? Sovereign worked for centuries its said to gather allies to find whats wrong with the citadel. I always assumed that the collectors built a new Reaper to try to fix the citadel. But in ME3 the Reapers only care about the citadel in the end. Allthough everything else implied that it was vital for their strategy.

If Sovereign worked for centuries for his plan to work... Why didn't he ditch it when he realised that Harbinger
& co only were a couple of years away and gathered with them. Why suicide run into the citadel if there were ways this easy? His failure actually made this cycle aware of the Reapers. Sure, they arent omniscent, but they don't need to be 100% stupid. This premise is broken. Specially since they didnt care about the citadels Mass Relay
control.

Statement 4

The crucible. Okay, they built that massive Death Star within a week? That thing was obviously easy to
build. It was continued by each race adding a part. But how exactly did the previous races learn about this thing? Did they also know about the Reapers? But i always assumed we, in this cycle, knew about it only
because the Protheans tampered with the Keepers and because of the cipher + Sovereign failing with his plan. Or are you telling me that the other destroyed races were able to research and build that thing on isolated islands, with very limited war time resources? Well, i don't know. And its sure as hell not explained. Also, how did the other races know it would work? How did they find out about the Guardian? It implied that snythetics had visited it before. Was it syntehtic races that built it? That means that the dominat race in some cycle was sythetic or? 

Statement 4,5

Also, what happened to the Reaper fleet protecting the Citadel??? Was it defeated conventionally so that the cruicible could dock?? But then we defeated the the Reapers conventionally. That thing looked really sensitive, would have been enough with a reaper fart to defeat it. Wow, there are so many holes in this.... They obviousy knew it was coming... So why didn't they stay there keep ther scanners up to destroy it.

Or was it undestructable? ????????? Wow, amazing.

Statement 5

Ah, yes, the solution to order vs chaos. Now thats half-baked philosophy for you right there like my dear admiral
Adama would say. What was that? So, lets talk with Sovereign.



What? Hesays that the Reapers are something we cant comprehend and stuff like that... Eh, obviously we can comprehend it. Actually, a 10 year old kid would understand their excistance after we talked to the Guardian. The
Reapers are there to break the cycle of syntetic life destroying their biological creators and thus making room for new biological life.

But, Sovereign seems to have a severe contempt towards biological life in the dialogue. Also he calls us rudimentary, an accident, etc. Now, this is a gap. They both talk about biological life being in chaos, and thats
why they harvest. But they definitely seem to imply different things. Sovereign says that by using the relays we evolve in a certain pattern. Interesting. Would he be kind enough to tell me in what way? I always assumed that he implied that we expand, thus more indivuals to harvest or something like that. But from what i learned in ME3 the Reaper tech allows for different ways to evolve. The Protheans became enslavers and tyrants. While our cycle became cooperative. I'm smelling more half baked philosphy here. 

AH YES THE STORY IS UNCOMPREHENDABLE BECAUSE THE REAPERS EXISTANCE IS UNCOMPREHENDABLE TO US.

The only reason its uncomprehendable is the same way 1+1=3 is uncomprehendable. Either there is a error, or info is missing.


I could continue forever.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 09 mars 2012 - 08:47 .

[Militarized]

Urazz wrote...

Actually, I just thought of it but maybe the Catalyst could control the relay through the keepers but the Protheans disabling the Keepers' ability to recieve the signal from Soveriegn to open the relay also prevented the Catalyst from controlling the relay as well.

Part of the reason for Soveriegn was for him to observe the organic civilizations to decide when they are at that harvestable point. The Catalyst wasn't able to do that really.

Think up what you like, it's obvious it's a big plot hole oversight and shows they didn't think any of it through honestly. 

[Praetor86]

why didn't they let Drew Karpyshyn finish his story he made from ME1 and 2 changing head writers sucks!